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How I succeeded to make a complete mess in my life


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8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

She should tell him she is no longer in love with him.  She should tell him she wants to be with other men.  She shouldn't tell him the gory details unless it's for health reasons because why make it even harder. I believe he can make an informed decision if he knows his wife wants to cheat on him, doesn't want to be with him. If he then asks if she's acted on it then she should tell him. If she's put him at any risk of STDs she should tell him. 

I'm trying to save his heart from breaking if there's a way for him to make an informed choice without having to imagine her having intercourse with another man.  She can tell him -if this is somehow true "I want to see if we can restore the connection, I want to go to therapy, I want us to do counseling if you're up for it, I want to show you I can be loyal in my heart".  I doubt this person can say any of this so it's purely hypothetical.  

Sorry, - and I say this with respect - but that is a cop out. This is not about preserving his feelings, it’s about giving him the respect now to be able to make his own choices with all the information instead of offering up an already actioned “hypothetical”. If being unfaithful is a dealbreaker for someone and their partner being unfaithful to them is withheld from them then it is only selfish to keep withholding it. She didn’t care about his feelings before, when she chose to hurt him, irregardless of it being unbeknownst to him, so she should act with integrity now and give him the courtesy to decide for himself if he wants to move forward. Not telling removes all his right to maKe his own choices. It is VERY different having feelings for someone else and coming to your partner to proactively address and combat that together - that is what a responsible and decent person would do when faced with developing feelings unexpectedly for someone else, and to actually have an affair with someone. Because, If she does the former, that is how it will seem. It is dishonest. And I don’t know of any couples STILL together where infidelity occurred and the partner betrayed has said that in a hypothetical situation they like to remain ignorant to spare their feelings. I certainly would feel violated to find such a thing happened to me. And if someone prefers to remain ignorant to a betrayal like that then that is not a mentally healthy position to place yourself in,  it physically safe.

Edited by LotusBlack
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2 hours ago, LotusBlack said:

Sorry, - and I say this with respect - but that is a cop out. This is not about preserving his feelings, it’s about giving him the respect now to be able to make his own choices with all the information instead of offering up an already actioned “hypothetical”. If being unfaithful is a dealbreaker for someone and their partner being unfaithful to them is withheld from them then it is only selfish to keep withholding it. She didn’t care about his feelings before, when she chose to hurt him, irregardless of it being unbeknownst to him, so she should act with integrity now and give him the courtesy to decide for himself if he wants to move forward. Not telling removes all his right to maKe his own choices. It is VERY different having feelings for someone else and coming to your partner to proactively address and combat that together - that is what a responsible and decent person would do when faced with developing feelings unexpectedly for someone else, and to actually have an affair with someone. Because, If she does the former, that is how it will seem. It is dishonest. And I don’t know of any couples STILL together where infidelity occurred and the partner betrayed has said that in a hypothetical situation they like to remain ignorant to spare their feelings. I certainly would feel violated to find such a thing happened to me. And if someone prefers to remain ignorant to a betrayal like that then that is not a mentally healthy position to place yourself in,  it physically safe.

I'm not interested in being right or debating - you seem somehow to be shouting and trying to convince me to see things a different way and I'm puzzled as to why.  I explained my thinking. You've misunderstood significant parts of what I wrote and I'm not interested in repeating or being right. It's totally fine if you disagree.  

Edited by Batya33
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5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not interested in being right or debating - you seem somehow to be shouting and trying to convince me to see things a different way and I'm puzzled as to why.  I explained my thinking. You've misunderstood significant parts of what I wrote and I'm not interested in repeating or being right. It's totally fine if you disagree.  

I was neither shouting or debating, nor suggesting there is a wrong or right way, just presenting an alternative perspective. Anything written in caps - the two single words - was simply to highlight emphasis. I also was not tying to convince you of anything, as it is not your situation or relationship that is being discussed here. I addressed the OP with it being a potentially bad approach to the situation because it can cause harm. I offered my advice and the reasoning behind it. I only proceeded with responding to your message when you addressed me directly. My response was thought in complete calmness if somewhat direct. Sorry you felt otherwise, as there was no intention for it to be perceived differently.

Edited by LotusBlack
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7 hours ago, LotusBlack said:

I was neither shouting or debating, nor suggesting there is a wrong or right way, just presenting an alternative perspective. Anything written in caps - the two single words - was simply to highlight emphasis. I also was not tying to convince you of anything, as it is not your situation or relationship that is being discussed here. I addressed the OP with it being a potentially bad approach to the situation because it can cause harm. I offered my advice and the reasoning behind it. I only proceeded with responding to your message when you addressed me directly. My response was thought in complete calmness if somewhat direct. Sorry you felt otherwise, as there was no intention for it to be perceived differently.

Yes you think it is a bad approach. I agree it is bad and under certain hypothetical conditions is where we part company.  Those hypothetical conditions are highly unlikely in this situation.  You ignored what I wrote and my nuances and conditions and you feel very strongly about your opinion -you do not know of couples who are still together and that is your experience.  You're entitled to base your opinion on your experiences.

I do not think the OP should continue with her marriage and therefore if she asks for a divorce that's the end, finito, there's no reason to tell him the gory details since it will be over (unless for health reasons).  In the unlikely event she has an aha moment and stops being selfish/self absorbed and really wants to make this work I can think of hypothetical situations where she need not share him the gory details in the name of sparing him even more heartache. My sense is he will ask her directly if she has cheated and if he does she should tell him.

We part company on what she's required to or should share in those extremely hypothetical conditions.  My sense is given the health risk she has no choice but to share regardless of whether she divorces or wants to keep trying.  So that makes what I wrote even more hypothetical.  One reason why I was trying to spare him is because I get the strong sense she will tell him to unburden her guilt  -and I don't really like the idea of this person who is justifying what happened and dramatically beating herself up (which I don't buy) - getting then to unburden her guilt and hurt this innocent man.  That bothers me.  

 I do not think the OP should lose custody of her daughter based on adultery only.    (That was written by someone else).  I would need to know more.  If what she did put her child at risk -totally different - or if she's not parenting in a safe/ethical way -different. 

I do know of a couple where technically he did cheat (she would have assumed they were exclusive, but they weren't -they'd been dating a couple of months but were waiting to have sex) - he lied to her about his whereabouts.  He stopped seeing the other woman before he had sex with his future wife.  He had to lie a number of times later because of the story he concocted. 

I do not believe he ever cheated on her over the decades they've been married (or she, him).  I believe she knows and sort of decided not to ask more questions because she wanted to marry him. She's really smart and sharp and the circumstances were such that she had to suspect something was going on.  She was really marriage minded let's just say. 

I'm actually not sure what she would have done if she learned the truth.  I'm honestly conflicted to this day as to whether he should have told her and I never told him what to do.  One of our friends who knew stopped being his friend I believe because of what he did.  Should I have told her? Or begged him to tell her? Was I "dishonest" by omission? She never asked me or mentioned anything about it.  This is context for why I see a bit more of a gray area than you do in this sort of situation.    

So you know there are certain gray areas here where the spouse does know/suspect and chooses "ignorance is bliss" - 

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