It’s too early to be this hard *howls into the void*

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I feel like probably I’ll never feel ‘ready’ to have a kid but I can tell you now that by 40 I’ll feel like I need to act if I’m going to and by 40 I will probably make a leap of faith. The having of a kid, and the experience of living overseas, they’re both things I want to do in abstract but haven’t in practice because hard and involves leaving comfort zone, but that doesn’t flat out mean I want to miss those experiences.

I think you owe it to yourself to abandon abstractions and do the nitty gritty work of the specifics that go into the life choices you personally are considering.  You can want something in the abstract and not be willing to do what it takes to get there - and be honest with yourself so you don't mislead yourself or anyone else. 

Reminds me of an acquaintance -about 4 years ago -she was in her 40s -around New Years she emphatically and enthusiastically shared with me that this was going to be the year she finally came into her own -she planned to go back to working outside the home, to find a real career for herself -she'd been a full time mom for many years- she initiated this conversation -I didn't judge or give my opinion -simply listened.  She never took any steps or mentioned it again. 

So she "wanted to" -but that's a small part of the big stuff.  The real stuff is the actual concrete steps you take toward the goal -big or small. 

With travel it's often planning out how it's going to work with a job, financial budgeting, talking to people about how best to go about it, figuring out routes, places to stay, language barriers, safety.  With a child it's often similar - how badly you want a child, your job/career/finances, where to live, what your partner wants, any medical issues or health issues to get your body ready for pregnancy or the IVF stuff or adoption/surrogacy related issues.

I remember getting pregnant for the first time ever at 41 then realizing I needed genetic testing - like I think it was 12 vials of blood? So much for my body to handle. Should have done the testing before I got pregnant.

My mother taking me to the hospital to have it done as my then boyfriend and I were long distance.  Riding public transit, sitting there and trying not to faint with all that blood.  Feeling so stressed when the counselor told us the parade of horribles that could happen and waiting waiting waiting for the results. 

Having to lie to my coworkers when I was exhausted from being pregnant at night and still at the office but having to stay at the office late and keep running to the bathroom to pee.  That's what it's also about - and waiting every month to see "did it work??" Am I pregnant??  Maybe??? Nothing abstract. If you want the travel or the baby or the marriage or one of the above maybe do yourself a huge favor and -without this guy in your life -make yourself think about the nitty gritty and take even tiny steps - you'll feel a lot more clarity and know whether you really want it. 

It's really nitty gritty, hard, boring at times.  Inconvenient, stressful, frustrating.  The opposite of abstract.  Don't indulge in contemplating your navel so much.  Do the work.  You'll feel good about it even though it's hard.

 

[1a1a]

Jibralta, it is, it is, every other relationship that’s lasted any amount of time has done so because I over functioned and propped it up. But it is fair to say I haven’t really made any romantic gestures for this guy since he got back because I came in super cautious and slow and he has made many many many efforts and gestures (long not posted about because I tend not to in good times). So I can see how he got to feeling like he’s bent over backwards for no good result. More than a little bit hoping he can see from my side more when he’s had some time though. I mean I’m attempting to see and acknowledge and make changes based on his perception. 
 

Batya this is on point. Both the do you want to do the thing enough to actually plan it, and try planning it and see how it feels. I’m not really sure how to do that for the baby question but now I’m down the rabbit hole of other people who’ve faced the same indecision. (I still feel like this is early in the dating timeline to be wondering these wonders but it doesn’t hurt to seek more information). What has coalesced for me is I really want to do some travel before adding a baby to the mix. And a month ago, this guy of mine was saying he might be moving to canada very soon and would I come with him. He’s flipped from travel to deal breaker baby in the space of 4 weeks. Anyway, with or without him, turning that into a real plan Is a comfortable thought (where planning to move in and start a family this early are not). 
 

Edit to add: I came to lament that this is a break and I want to contact him but I want to leave him his space more and I’m hoping he’ll get in touch but he’s not and I just have to sit in that discomfort.
 

And in coming here to post I got distracted by your replies and my thoughts in response to them in a very constructive way. Lament feeling has retreated at least for now. 

[Batya33]

To him it's not early because he sees your prior interactions differently.  

So with the baby decision if you decide you want to be a mother someday I would plan financially (I did that for 11 years in advance but that's a bit unusual), I would consider how important it is to you so it may inform who you select to date (for example if someone doesn't want kids ever or more kids), and keep in tune with health-related issues that might affect fertility, or your ability to raise a child full time, etc.  Also doesn't hurt to be around kids whether as a volunteer, your friend's kids, etc.

 

[Jibralta]

2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Jibralta, it is, it is, every other relationship that’s lasted any amount of time has done so because I over functioned and propped it up. But it is fair to say I haven’t really made any romantic gestures for this guy since he got back because I came in super cautious and slow and he has made many many many efforts and gestures (long not posted about because I tend not to in good times).

I don't have a lot of information about your relationship, but I'd like to point out that you can still "over-function and prop things up" while not making romantic gestures. And he can make loads of romantic gestures without being fully invested. 

[1a1a]

I woke up to a message from him along the lines of ‘I think maybe we want a different life. I wish I could give you what you desire but I want a different life.

Miss your face xoxoxo’

 

I think, this started with my riding then breaks and refusing to plan anything. But maybe I’m wrong, maybe he always pictured come back to Australia, still have chemistry in person? Check, move in? Check, have a kid? By the time I’m 36? This is really important to me, if I could do it sooner I would have? Check. 
 

If it’s the time pressure to have kids I have to let him go. If it’s because of how cautious I’ve been since he returned I regret everything so much. I wish I’d known I only had 7 weeks, there’s so much I wanted to do and held back because it felt too soon for me. 
 

Even with holding back this still hurts so much, so lose lose. *** I wish he had been clear about his kid timeline so much earlier on, like at the start, when we started doing the long distance. Like maybe only do long distance of you know at the other end the person wants, to the planned detail, what you want. 

[1a1a]

I feel more crushed by this than I could have imagined 

[Batya33]

I'm so sorry -that's a very hard message to receive.  It shocks the system. He really may not have known how badly he wanted a child until recently -it's odd for someone to keep that a secret if it's that intense a desire.  Do your best not to indulge in ruminating and overthinking - he's made up his mind it seems and I hope in time you feel mostly relief.  It's just still so new right now.

[1a1a]

My mum said she thought we’d move in together when he returned too, and that we do need to start thinking about it soon if we want kids. 
 

He wants to see the relationship progressing and there’s this huge gap between where he is and where I am and even with that gap, I could compromise and offer to move in with him now. Do I tell him that and offer that we try living together now? Or is this me over functioning?
 

Do I really want to give this relationship a way to live or is it because he’s rejected me and just a knee jerk reaction. 
 

How am I suppose to trust my feelings at all?

[1a1a]

I am thinking if I really felt like we’d only been dating for 7 weeks this would feel very different. 

[1a1a]

We spoke. He doesn't want to move in straight away. He said a few months. He wanted to plan for that, I didn’t. We're not compatible. He wants to date like an adult, I want to date like I’m in my 20s, we’re not compatible. I said I wanted to plan to have kids in two years (I do want it, the settle down and have a family. I just hadn’t done any thinking about it all and I need to). He still wants a kid in 1, he’s firm on this, we’re not compatible. He won't meet in the middle on this, he feels like the whole time he's been passing the middle and meeting where Lisa is. Where is he in this? Where are his thoughts and feelings and dreams? Why do we always do what 1a1a wants? We're not compatible. He absolutely doesn't want to push me into having a kid, that want should come from me, we don't want the same things, we're not compatible. 

He feels like I'm family, I'm not there yet, that's a fundamental difference, we're not compatible.

I tried to get closer to him on all of it, moving in, planning a family but he doesn't trust me and says I'm a roller coaster ride. 

He's done. He does not want to date anymore. He feels like a fool sitting in this empty room in this expensive house. He just wants to eat food and sleep. 
 

I didn’t know what I wanted and I didn’t take any steps to work it out when I could have been and now I’ve lost him too and I hate myself for it. 

[1a1a]

I do this every single time, I hold on. He said he’s done and I’m not accepting that and adapting to the new reality and taking the steps that will heal me, because I can’t believe it. I don’t think we’ve given this it’s proper chance. He does. He’s been bending over backwards to make it work. He didn’t wait for reciprocity and he over extended himself long past the time when it bothered him. Now I know and want to act and it’s taken me until now to feel the feeling I’d need to feel to reciprocate what he’s giving me. But no chance to demonstrate it now. 
 

And making a plan. This is a totally new thought for me. When he first asked about it the pressure to do so freaked me out but I don’t really want to keep drifting through life. I guess objectively this relationship is the catalyst for a number of changes, there’s my silver lining, but I’m still hoping that I’ll write him a letter in a week, one last time, laying out what I feel and what I want on the table. I thought first 3 days but no, more time should be allowed to pass I think. Plus the durability of these feelings should be tested. And then once I’ve handed that in, and he is unswayed. Then I have to accept and move on.
 

This week of sitting and thinking and grieving and hoping there’s stress and anger in the mix and given space some of that will fade and his absolute feeling will fade with it and he’ll want to meet me in the middle, on this, most seriously important and non negotiable of things (He’s afraid I’m going to get 2 years in and still not want it, like his sisters husband, said in a few years, in a few years, and the other side of a few years he still isn’t ready. I think he’s afraid that will be me but he will be 2 years more invested in me and breaking up then will be much much much worse for him)  is going to be torture. 

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

He’s been bending over backwards to make it work. He didn’t wait for reciprocity and he over extended himself long past the time when it bothered him.

Can you give specifics? Aside from reiterating that he "kept trying," the only specifics you've given about his behavior are pretty negative. For example, he says you're too slow, you smell, he doesn't want your flowers but you're throwing his efforts in his face, he doesn't like staying over, he prefers phone calls, he's not inviting you to brunch now, your thoughts and feelings bring him down, you're too negative, you stubbornly refuse to feel special (despite his 'great efforts'), you're not invested, by the way I want a kid by next year, also I think I'm going to move to Canada pretty soon.

On 2/14/2022 at 10:59 AM, 1a1a said:

My vulnerability is flipped on it’s head and masterfully converted into something I need to back pedal on. ***, that’s concerning.

Yes, good observation^^^ 

Looking in from the outside, this relationship seems more a judo match than a partnership.

You provide so many specifics about what is dismal, but talk in broad generalizations about "all of his effort." Where are those specifics? What have been his efforts, besides comparing you to himself and pointing out your shortcomings? 

[Batya33]

One of my friend's daughters is in her 20s and married several years and has three kids and dated in her teens - her husband -for years - she was ready to marry him -being a teen mom was a bit of a struggle! (I was engaged briefly at 23 -wrong guy but I definitely was marriage minded and seriously dating him) - so there's no such thing dating like in your 20s.

Individual people have individual goals including when it comes to dating.  You are right that you two are incompatible.  You say you want to date more casually with no long term specific goals and he doesn't.  Neither of you is wrong in your thinking you're just mismatched. 

I think it's best he figured this out -and you did -sooner than later -you just are on different wavelengths.  Again I'm sorry you're upset.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

And making a plan. This is a totally new thought for me. When he first asked about it the pressure to do so freaked me out but I don’t really want to keep drifting through life. I guess objectively this relationship is the catalyst for a number of changes, there’s my silver lining, but I’m still hoping that I’ll write him a letter in a week, one last time, laying out what I feel and what I want on the table. I thought first 3 days but no, more time should be allowed to pass I think. Plus the durability of these feelings should be tested. And then once I’ve handed that in, and he is unswayed. Then I have to accept and move on.

If a plan is a totally new thought for you that's ok.  Date people casually -many feel like you do -I met many of them one time or maybe twice and moved on ASAP because I had plans from the time I was 19 for marriage/family and for my career earlier than that.  If you don't want to drift through life do this on your own -make plans -but don't take him along with you on your nascent journey into non-drifting as he's light years ahead of you.  Doesn't make him right just not fair for you to ask him to stick around given where your head is, IMO.  I wouldn't write a letter other than to him, then read it, then don't send it.  Might be helpful for you peronally.  Let him be.

[Kwothe28]

7 hours ago, 1a1a said:

He's done. He does not want to date anymore. He feels like a fool sitting in this empty room in this expensive house. He just wants to eat food and sleep. 

Sorry to hear that.

If he is dead set on "1 year then baby" thing and unwilling to compromise that is OK. Also that is not on you, if you are not ready in that exact timeframe then you are not ready. You are both free to explore what is best for one or other. It would be way worst if he pushed you on that issue and you hating him afterward or him hating you afterward if you end up still not wanting it. Its a big issue and if you are both not willing to compromise then its better this way. Again, sorry to hear...

[1a1a]

Jibralta; He left a job in the field he spent $90 000 studying to gain entry to (international student uni fees) that he loved, where they loved him and kept giving him more responsibilities and his family and his dog to uproot his life and move half way around the world to give our relationship a chance. 
 

I don’t actually know how frequently he imagined seeing me when he got here because he’s never told me but I said twice a week felt like a good frequency and that was definitely less than he was expecting but he respected it.
 

He said he thought we could move in together in a few months, about a month after he’d arrived. I was incredulous. I didn’t want to move in but if he went back to India he wouldn’t be able to return on this visa and he still thought we had hope so he rented a very over priced room in a share house. 
 

I think the housing insecurity really drew out that sense of I have sacrificed so much to come here and this relationship isn’t progressing. I think he was already maxed out on what he could give just by coming here. The question is a good one though. I wonder what would be in his answer if you asked him because it doesn’t sound like a long list. But I guess these are big things to him. 


Batya; what do people mean when they say date casually? Because two years ago if you’d asked I would have said I am absolutely not interested in casual dating, when he asked me I would have said that. I meant it, I want to find the person I can settle down with. This is serious for me but my serious doesn’t look like his I guess? Or it would but I’m too slow. (And it would serve me well to work out what serious dating actually looks like for me). 
 

No letter because the relationship progression timeline is actually the hugest deal and even if the warm love feeling had been there from the start for me all that would have done is hidden the fact that we’re too far apart on this? I still think I can narrow the gap.

 

Kwothe; I tried to bring compromise to the table but he rejected it. I don’t think he believes me. Maybe you can’t compromise on kids.

[Wiseman2]

Do you feel he is manipulating you for residency, a place to stay? You seem incompatible. 

[1a1a]

Neither of those, he’s got savings a day job and friends who offer to let him stay in their house rent free (has to share a bedroom though) and he would rather go to canada and got the wheels in motion for that while the Australian borders were closed (because one thing is for certain he wants to leave India). 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, 1a1a said:

because one thing is for certain he wants to leave India

I think that's the answer in a nutshell.

[1a1a]

Testing the theory, why let us get this far in before having an honest, clear conversation about kids and how soon he wants to have them?

[boltnrun]

13 minutes ago, 1a1a said:

Testing the theory, why let us get this far in before having an honest, clear conversation about kids and how soon he wants to have them?

He wanted to make sure you were emotionally attached before bringing up his true agenda?

I agree with your previous assessment...you two are incompatible. His goals and yours do not align.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Batya; what do people mean when they say date casually? Because two years ago if you’d asked I would have said I am absolutely not interested in casual dating, when he asked me I would have said that. I meant it, I want to find the person I can settle down with. This is serious for me but my serious doesn’t look like his I guess? Or it would but I’m too slow. (And it would serve me well to work out what serious dating actually looks like for me)

Most people I know looking to date seriously have a plan/goal with what they want with a potentially serious relationship.  Casual meaning go on dates, do fun stuff, take trips, be romantic -but no plans for the future and free to date anyone else. You wrote it never occurred to you to have a plan. When I was dating I likely would have stopped dating someone who said something like that because I would have assumed he really didn't have any future intentions in general or with me.

[Jibralta]

5 hours ago, 1a1a said:

He left a job in the field he spent $90 000 studying to gain entry to (international student uni fees) that he loved, where they loved him and kept giving him more responsibilities and his family and his dog to uproot his life and move half way around the world to give our relationship a chance.

Ehhhhhh not exactly. I mean, he's not running back to India now that your relationship is over, is he? Let's not forget that wanted to get out of India. And then move on to Canada. And that he had free room and board for some time and had no trouble landing a new job and getting all of his friends jobs while he was at it. He isn't exactly a desperate man. Your relationship ran in parallel to a plan he already had in motion--a successful plan. He wasn't (isn't) homeless and starving in the street for love.  

5 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I think the housing insecurity really drew out that sense of I have sacrificed so much to come here and this relationship isn’t progressing.

Sorry, that's a little tough to take seriously for the reasons stated above. As for the relationship progressing, how far could it possibly progress in seven weeks? 

5 hours ago, 1a1a said:

I think he was already maxed out on what he could give just by coming here.

I agree. I think he was probably maxed out even before he left India. He may have been maxed out when he was born. 

5 hours ago, 1a1a said:

The question is a good one though. I wonder what would be in his answer if you asked him because it doesn’t sound like a long list. But I guess these are big things to him. 

Wait. Whoa. What do you mean by this? Are you talking about these questions:

7 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Where are those specifics? What have been his efforts, besides comparing you to himself and pointing out your shortcomings? 

I was asking you these questions. Did you not make this evaluation yourself? Have you been deferring to his decree??

2 hours ago, 1a1a said:

Testing the theory, why let us get this far in before having an honest, clear conversation about kids and how soon he wants to have them?

My opinion: I think he just wants to break up, doesn't want to look like a douche, and is throwing sht at the wall to see what sticks. 

[DancingFool]

I'm sorry but you really do need to start being honest with yourself about what you do and don't really want. Looking in from the outside, you are extremely ambivalent about whether or not you actually want to be a mother. If I were looking to have a family, I wouldn't trust you as a potential partner either.

I don't think it's so much about him being completely inflexible and more about him calling out your ambivalence. He is right that if you really wanted children, this wouldn't be an argument. Your mother is also right that after 1.4 years of LDR and him finally moving to you, that the next step is living together, marriage, planning a future. Things that are 100% normal to talk about, plan out, put into action given the amount of time you've known each other.

For whatever reason, you are not there mentally or emotionally. Maybe because deep down you'd rather not be a parent. Time to figure it out. Nothing that he asked of you was unreasonable for someone who is serious about building a future together and sorry, but no it wasn't too soon. For whatever internal reason, it was just too soon for you personally and that's OK. However, that's something you need to sort out for yourself - what are your actual dating goals and plans.

I kind of stand by what I said earlier - avoidance issues. It was great so long as he was far away and you didn't have to engage in the relationship in any real way. Why is that?

[Jibralta]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:23 PM, 1a1a said:

I feel more crushed by this than I could have imagined 

I meant to say, but I got distracted: I'm sorry you are feeling this way. It sucks. I hope you start feeling better soon.