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Open Discussion - Online Dating & Apps


Carnatic
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I could be overstepping a boundary here so feel free to delete this if you're a mod and this isn't the kind of topic you're supposed to post, but I felt like we could do with one or two topics that were just for open discussion.

A lot of time I maybe feel like I want to say something, but it isn't worthy of creating a whole new topic. I don't always like that creating a topic to ask about a specific thing will turn into a two page discussion entirely about myself; but then I'm sure other people like that so I don't want to post stuff about myself on a topic where someone else has asked for advice. It's part of the nature of this forum I guess, that each topic pretty much is a specific person's appeal for help but we could maybe do with ones more of a general nature.

And to make sure this gets off to the best start, and doesn't get mistaken for a request for advice purely for myself, I'm not even going to add any of my own thoughts... yet.

So, this is for Online Dating & Apps... PoF, Tinder, Bumble, all the others. How do people approach them, what do they struggle with, what issues do we have in common and so on. Have at it.

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I struggled with dating in general. But the way I dealt with dating sites wasn't easy but worth it. I did not date online.  I met ASAP in person.  The site was just a way to make an initial contact.  I made an exception one time.  We ended up dating three months but chatted on and off for 6 weeks in advance of meeting.  It didn't make a difference as far as "knowing" him better and it certainly didn't reveal the red flag that led to our ending things a couple of months later.  No way I would have known that other than in person unless he had told me from the get go, which he didn't (no he didn't lie really or even lie by omission - I think he thought it was a resolved issue but it clearly was not and had I not seen his disorder in action in person I wouldn't have known).  I feel I did get a little more attached to his online persona before we met since we chatted at length but in that one case again it didn't affect things.  But it was ultimately a huge waste of time.

I didn't have apps when I met men through websites.  I met over 100 men in person.  I mostly had a good experience.  Just like I mostly had a good experience meeting men in other ways.  But again I believe that is because I never allowed myself to date online, I was up front about what I was looking for, I was an excellent screener via the profile, our one or two instant messages and our one or two phone calls. 

But I can't speak to using dating sites for other than seeking a marriage or long term relationship.  I really can't relate to why anyone would go to all that trouble unless it was for a sex partner or an older person who simply wanted a companion after a long marriage and didn't much care if it was in person or virtual.  I guess.  I didn't want a sex partner.  I didn't want casual dating through an online site.  So because I was that focused, that targeted and that disciplined it was overall a very good experience. 

I know many children/young adults who are the product of their parents originally meeting online or through a personal ad.  Several long term relationships and marriages.  I had a number of good shorter term relationships and one engagement /LTR through a personal ad. 

My husband was on dating sites a bit in between the first and second times we dated - and he's an awesome person.  There was a really good reason why we didn't connect through a dating site the second time. I highly recommend dating sites as a way to meet long term partners but with all the qualifications I wrote.  

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19 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But I can't speak to using dating sites for other than seeking a marriage or long term relationship.  I really can't relate to why anyone would go to all that trouble unless it was for a sex partner or an older person who simply wanted a companion after a long marriage and didn't much care if it was in person or virtual.  I guess.  I didn't want a sex partner.  I didn't want casual dating through an online site.  So because I was that focused, that targeted and that disciplined it was overall a very good experience. 

For many people I think it's that dating sites (and actually, especially Tinder and those who copied its model) offer hope that they might get noticed. They're not without their problems and can seem to offer false hope, but the prospect of getting a match and knowing that means that someone has seen your profile and thought 'yes' is alluring.
 

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3 hours ago, Carnatic said:

A lot of time I maybe feel like I want to say something, but it isn't worthy of creating a whole new topic. I don't always like that creating a topic to ask about a specific thing will turn into a two page discussion entirely about myself; but then I'm sure other people like that so I don't want to post stuff about myself on a topic where someone else has asked for advice. It's part of the nature of this forum I guess

Never feel your issue is not important!  🙂 This is why this site is here.  We're all in this together.. We all have issue's at one time or another.. This place helped me a few times over the years.

 

I have not ventured much past POF and I joined that ... back around 2010 or so.

I joined it when I ended a long term relationship. I was more curious than anything. ( Yes, I knew a few 'available' men around my area but didn't have much interest in anything. POF gave me more variety throughout many more areas).

Yes, I did meet a few and I did date one ( less than 6 mos) But, I'd always try to proceed with caution. And yes, I did look a little into diff sites, but I left them. Didn't want to get carried away and overwhelmed.

My last involvment ended over 2 yrs ago.  He was not far away and he had some issue's, which caused issues for me 😕 ... So, I have not been involved since because I know I can't do it.  I ended up too emotionally drained....

Anyways, I do still 'hang out' on POF.  I call it 'touring'.  I am usually 'hidden' so I don't get hit on all the time. I call it touring because I am not actually looking to get involved, just passing some time, lol.

But, has been an experience. I tried it, it's been not too bad and just chose to remain with one main site.

If you choose to date online, do take it easy as there are a lot on there!  Get to know them some before you choose to trade numbers/ meet, etc.

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2 hours ago, Carnatic said:

For many people I think it's that dating sites (and actually, especially Tinder and those who copied its model) offer hope that they might get noticed. They're not without their problems and can seem to offer false hope, but the prospect of getting a match and knowing that means that someone has seen your profile and thought 'yes' is alluring.
 

I never can relate to people who believe dating sites offer anything like "hope" -to me they were just one of the tools I used to meet people in real life.  I don't believe in thinking people are sheep influenced like that by dating sites or social media.  We're in control of how we choose to interact.  I didn't want to be noticed on a dating site -it was only my photos and typing so "I" wasn't getting noticed. I simply wanted to connect with potential matches.  I didn't need to be noticed in that way to feel good about myself.

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I'm 45 and was in and out of online dating before 'online dating' became 'dating apps.' In my experience, before online dating platforms started popping up, 'stranger danger' was the prevailing attitude towards meeting random people online. Yes, some people did it (including my college roommate) but it was considered weird and often an act of desperation. I grew up within the NYC metropolitan area where many dissimilar cultural influences and traditions coexist, where we hardly notice when someone does something 'different.' But people did notice this, and there were Opinions. I've witnessed a complete reversal of these attitudes and opinions over the last 25 years or so, most especially after the advent of social media. 

I first tried online dating when I was (I think) about 26 or 27, and I was very reluctant because I had the biases stated above--I didn't even have a picture in my profile! I got past my biases, but I did field sidelong glances, raised eyebrows, and awkward silences from other people whenever I told them that I was using online dating, or when I and a boyfriend told someone that we'd met online (that was the worst lol, especially in the early days!!). That awkwardness didn't fully disappear during my online dating tenure, but it did diminish over time. Even so, my now-boyfriend actually laughed at me when I told him I had done online dating. That was nearly 10 years ago. Nowadays the concept is so common that people don't bat an eyelash. It seems almost expected that you will have a dating profile somewhere.

I did online dating on and off over a time period of about five years. Probably 3 years aggregate. I met a lot of people through online dating and had several relationships. I liked the fact that I was meeting people that I ordinarily wouldn't meet. Many had interesting backgrounds and experiences that were completely unlike mine. But it never measured up to the dating experience I had with guys who I'd met in person, through shared experiences, shared backgrounds, and shared friends. Online dating always felt a little 'forced' to me. It reminded me of zookeepers who tried to force animals to mate in captivity. I felt like we were the animals. Something was missing.

I was interested in something that @Kwothe28 said in one of his posts on a different thread (can't remember which), something to the effect of dating apps being an extension of social media, a platform that people now use more to seek approval for what they post than to actually find a date. I've abandoned social media and dating apps, so I'm now just a spectator. But I have watched things change with some degree of fascination and this is what I see with my (now) outsider's perspective.

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2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I was interested in something that @Kwothe28 said in one of his posts on a different thread (can't remember which), something to the effect of dating apps being an extension of social media, a platform that people now use more to seek approval for what they post than to actually find a date

Sadly, not just my experience, heard lots of others say the same. For example its not rare to see women who would leave few revealing pics and Instagram handle to follow them there. Online dating was "stigmatized" before. It was a generally smaller thing that lots of people didnt even think of trying because of ridicule of others. But now(especially with pandemic and less ways of meeting new people) it has become a mainstream thing. And every mainstream thing has a tendency to become very distorted of original purpose. Before it was probably more serious people about dating in general(at least from what Ive heard). Now, its everything. Mostly hookups but there are lots of people who are there mostly to farm likes and not meet someone at all. Think there was a guy here the other day telling the same, how he would get matches on Tinder and Bumble. But never answers to messages and stuff like that. Which wouldnt be a problem if its Instagram or Facebook, but you are on dating app so why even match somebody then? Lots of bad stories Ive heard even from girls too. Half of them has "No ONS", some even "Please no married" and stuff like that because even though they have easier time getting matches, their matches are horde of horny men just looking for one thing. So there is everything. I am not saying there isnt a serious thing  too, know couples who meet that way and got into very serious relationships or even married. Just that due to popularity of online dating now, "the clientele" has also become less about meeting someone serious so you could settle, and more about other stuff. 

I mean, I cant complain that much. Ive had few good matches and dates. Some of them didnt know what they wanted, some of them wanted a serious thing, its a mixed bag overall. But heard a lot of people say the same thing. And that its like "finding a needle in a haystack". OK, dating in general is like that but have a feeling that people at least had better experience before. Now its a lot of mixed bags. 

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My grad school friend met his wife through a popular dating site in the late 90s.  They didn't want people to know how they met - he joked with me that he'd tell me they met through a skiing accident- that he saved her - (he doesn't ski).  So for their wedding I wrote a long poem about that day on the slopes when they met and he saved her, his damsel in distress lol.  I was engaged to someone I met through a personal ad and my mother found a personal ad for my sister in the 1980s  - and they were married for about 20 years.  

It wasn't small at all when I did it -personal ads in the paper maybe but not the dating sites I was on in the city on which I was on it.

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Honestly I’m just frustrated with meeting people in general whether it’s online or in person. I’ve tried putting myself out there and I get the feeling that people don’t want to be bothered. Especially when everyone is busy with their face buried in a phone. Then the times when I had a great conversation with someone and got a phone number, they never respond or they play the short or vague answer game without asking a question back. I’ve had a couple of dates from online which ended in them saying we don’t have anything in common or I’m just looking right now. Being 44 makes it especially difficult and never experiencing intimacy or touch definitely takes a toll on you mentally. 

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11 hours ago, beatlesfan77 said:

Honestly I’m just frustrated with meeting people in general whether it’s online or in person. I’ve tried putting myself out there and I get the feeling that people don’t want to be bothered. Especially when everyone is busy with their face buried in a phone. Then the times when I had a great conversation with someone and got a phone number, they never respond or they play the short or vague answer game without asking a question back. I’ve had a couple of dates from online which ended in them saying we don’t have anything in common or I’m just looking right now. Being 44 makes it especially difficult and never experiencing intimacy or touch definitely takes a toll on you mentally. 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.  I moved to a new city for the first time at age 43 and it's hard to make new (platonic) friends - lots of flakiness. I screened a lot when I did online dating sites -not chatting online for a long time but making sure from our one or two conversations that we were on the same wavelength.  It's tough out there I agree!  Has been for many decades, way before the internet and cell phones -can you imagine calling someone on a landline with no answering machine? Or having to call at work because that's the only place there's voicemail?

Somehow the men who wanted to date me made sure to call and to call by Wednesday evening if they wanted a weekend date.  Even the first time I dated my husband in the mid 90s we had internal work email but no internet/other email or cell phones. 

Technology makes it easier to get in touch but you know what really makes it easy -wanting to talk to the person and wanting to meet up or go on a date.  Then it's easy because the person who desires that will find a way.  I also find people are even less about being on time these days because they figure they can text last minute they're running late.

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18 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I never can relate to people who believe dating sites offer anything like "hope" -to me they were just one of the tools I used to meet people in real life.  I don't believe in thinking people are sheep influenced like that by dating sites or social media.  We're in control of how we choose to interact.  I didn't want to be noticed on a dating site -it was only my photos and typing so "I" wasn't getting noticed. I simply wanted to connect with potential matches.  I didn't need to be noticed in that way to feel good about myself.

I think that you're maybe more self-assured, and less in need of validation than most people are... just from previous posts of yours I've seen, so I can understand that.

When I talk about them offering hope though, that can feel very real. It's not without it's huge caveats but it's not totally imaginary either. Speaking from my own experience, but I'm sure it's shared by many people who use online dating, I have never in my life experienced a girl being interested in me in person, it's hard not to feel like this is just how it is.

Caveats are of course that until you meet in person and hopefully hit it off, a match on a dating site isn't a real thing, but nevertheless, knowing someone swiped right on me once feels like a massive step up from where I was in the dating world before I discovered Tinder.

I'm not a heavy Tinder user by the way, I use it a little bit similar to what @SooSad33 was saying, I'll go on there from time to time, swipe right a lot more than I swipe left, and once in a while I get a match. It feels cheap but it beats feeling fundamentally undesirable.

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4 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I think that you're maybe more self-assured, and less in need of validation than most people are... just from previous posts of yours I've seen, so I can understand that.

Not at all especially when I was dating.  I just never ever put those expectations on technology or blamed technology for something not working out, etc.  Dating was so hard and made me feel so vulnerable much of the time.  As I've said before if I wasn't looking for marriage it wouldn't have been worth it.

Because I was looking for marriage I didn't care whether someone found me attractive based on a photo on a profile. I only cared whether he was someone I should meet in person based on what he said he was looking for and based on our phone call.  No, I didn't need validation of my physical features from strangers.  That was not why I had a profile on dating sites.  Having a stranger compliment me or express interest in meeting me did nothing for me as far as making me feel desirable -I can't fathom why it would.  

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5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.  I moved to a new city for the first time at age 43 and it's hard to make new (platonic) friends - lots of flakiness. I screened a lot when I did online dating sites -not chatting online for a long time but making sure from our one or two conversations that we were on the same wavelength.  It's tough out there I agree!  Has been for many decades, way before the internet and cell phones -can you imagine calling someone on a landline with no answering machine? Or having to call at work because that's the only place there's voicemail?

Somehow the men who wanted to date me made sure to call and to call by Wednesday evening if they wanted a weekend date.  Even the first time I dated my husband in the mid 90s we had internal work email but no internet/other email or cell phones. 

Technology makes it easier to get in touch but you know what really makes it easy -wanting to talk to the person and wanting to meet up or go on a date.  Then it's easy because the person who desires that will find a way.  I also find people are even less about being on time these days because they figure they can text last minute they're running late.

Thanks Batya!  Yes it is pretty tough out there. Actually I can imagine calling someone on a landline with no answering machine. I remember that being the case when I was very young. My parents got their first answering machine and it was like wow. Not sure about the calling work part. I wouldn’t want them to get in trouble with their boss for using business property for personal reasons. 

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5 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I think that you're maybe more self-assured, and less in need of validation than most people are... just from previous posts of yours I've seen, so I can understand that.

Wow, upon reflection this comment is so interesting. Especially when this is also considered:

On 1/9/2022 at 9:20 AM, Carnatic said:

For many people I think it's that dating sites (and actually, especially Tinder and those who copied its model) offer hope that they might get noticed.

Is that how everyone feels now? Is that why there's so much swiping and so little action? Not so much to provide narcissistic supply, but to assuage a general feeling of loneliness? Perhaps they are two sides of the same coin.

I can see how that could be the case. With all of it's personal branding, social media is quite an isolating thing...

Funny, I was watching a video that @Cinder posted the other day, where they did a reenactment of an ancient ceremony. At one point, there was a shot straight down from above, and it was so interesting to see the shadows of the figures from that view:

image.png.b3a626c208ed6f7319e6d50baca22e1f.png

For a moment, I wondered if that was the point of the ceremony, to get that pattern with their shadows.... and then I realized, duh... there were no drones back then. Only the birds and trees would have seen it and they wouldn't understand or appreciate it. 

That made me wonder if on some level, we are all aware that no one is seeing us. I wonder if that's why we feel so lonely sometimes. A primaeval awareness that we are ultimately by ourselves, unwitnessed. There are even aspects and perspectives of ourselves that we are not aware of.

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On 1/9/2022 at 12:17 PM, Batya33 said:

I never can relate to people who believe dating sites offer anything like "hope" -to me they were just one of the tools I used to meet people in real life.  I don't believe in thinking people are sheep influenced like that by dating sites or social media.  We're in control of how we choose to interact.  I didn't want to be noticed on a dating site -it was only my photos and typing so "I" wasn't getting noticed. I simply wanted to connect with potential matches.  I didn't need to be noticed in that way to feel good about myself.

When was the last time you were on a dating site/app?  What year was it?

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I first started using dating apps around 2018, and viewed them as an extra way to meet new people that I wouldn’t normally. Live in a rural town and not many people the same age around. 
 

Met my last boyfriend by using them, we met relatively quickly in real life and dated for two years.

My second stint with them isn’t going so well, although I’ve been getting matches and dates so I guess it depends how you look at it. In the last year think I’ve met about 9 men off the apps but most were ‘one and done’ and nothings developed further.

They’re annoyingly addictive too, tried to take a break over new year but think I only lasted a few days away 🤣

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On 1/10/2022 at 5:42 PM, Jibralta said:

Wow, upon reflection this comment is so interesting. Especially when this is also considered:

Is that how everyone feels now? Is that why there's so much swiping and so little action? Not so much to provide narcissistic supply, but to assuage a general feeling of loneliness? Perhaps they are two sides of the same coin.

I can see how that could be the case. With all of it's personal branding, social media is quite an isolating thing...

Funny, I was watching a video that @Cinder posted the other day, where they did a reenactment of an ancient ceremony. At one point, there was a shot straight down from above, and it was so interesting to see the shadows of the figures from that view:

image.png.b3a626c208ed6f7319e6d50baca22e1f.png

For a moment, I wondered if that was the point of the ceremony, to get that pattern with their shadows.... and then I realized, duh... there were no drones back then. Only the birds and trees would have seen it and they wouldn't understand or appreciate it. 

That made me wonder if on some level, we are all aware that no one is seeing us. I wonder if that's why we feel so lonely sometimes. A primaeval awareness that we are ultimately by ourselves, unwitnessed. There are even aspects and perspectives of ourselves that we are not aware of.

Deep...

I think you're right that there's two sides to the same coin. A lot of online dating feels like an extension of social media, and they even do have Facebook dating now. I don't have much experience though with the 'traditional' dating sides such as the ones which predated Facebook, I used OKCupid a bit but that was a decade ago. There has been a tendency towards things being quick and about grabbing attention.

I do still think though that Tinder and its clones probably most closely match the way people meet each other in bars and the like in real life. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know, I guess it depends how easy people find it to get matches on there and get past the whole online thing and to the in-person thing.

Speaking personally, my experience with online dating isn't really that typical, in that I'm stupendously bad at getting matches, anywhere. I spent about a year on OKC without finding a single match so in comparison the couple dozen or so matches I've managed to rack up in five years on tinder seems wildly successful, even if only four or five have responded to me. If it wasn't for Tinder then I would still have never been on a date in my life.

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On 1/10/2022 at 5:08 PM, Batya33 said:

Not at all especially when I was dating.  I just never ever put those expectations on technology or blamed technology for something not working out, etc.  Dating was so hard and made me feel so vulnerable much of the time.  As I've said before if I wasn't looking for marriage it wouldn't have been worth it.

Because I was looking for marriage I didn't care whether someone found me attractive based on a photo on a profile. I only cared whether he was someone I should meet in person based on what he said he was looking for and based on our phone call.  No, I didn't need validation of my physical features from strangers.  That was not why I had a profile on dating sites.  Having a stranger compliment me or express interest in meeting me did nothing for me as far as making me feel desirable -I can't fathom why it would.  

I can understand that. It gives me hope but it is also bittersweet.

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3 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

I can understand that. It gives me hope but it is also bittersweet.

Why bittersweet? I don't need approval about my physical features from strangers.  Back when I first had a profile many had no photos.  I also went on many blind dates where no photos were exchanged in advance -that really didn't become a thing at all till the late 90s.  

I think if someone posts photos on a dating site looking to be "noticed" on the site for what he or she looks like it's "a" reason to be on the site (it's a free country after all) but to me that has zero to do with being on a dating site because you want to date someone or look for a long term relationship. It's like a woman friend of mine who regularly posts air brushed photos of herself whenever she has an excuse to - like "oh it's my acquaintance's bday so when I post happy bday I'll post a photo of us from the past when we were all dressed up for a night on the town"). 

Sure a person can use an online dating site to date online and to tell the world "see how hot I look???? I hope you swipe on me/message me!!!" - but if that person doesn't get "noticed" that's not because of any flaw with the dating site -it's because the person wasn't using it primarily to date.

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11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Why bittersweet? I don't need approval about my physical features from strangers.  Back when I first had a profile many had no photos.  I also went on many blind dates where no photos were exchanged in advance -that really didn't become a thing at all till the late 90s.  

I think if someone posts photos on a dating site looking to be "noticed" on the site for what he or she looks like it's "a" reason to be on the site (it's a free country after all) but to me that has zero to do with being on a dating site because you want to date someone or look for a long term relationship. It's like a woman friend of mine who regularly posts air brushed photos of herself whenever she has an excuse to - like "oh it's my acquaintance's bday so when I post happy bday I'll post a photo of us from the past when we were all dressed up for a night on the town"). 

Sure a person can use an online dating site to date online and to tell the world "see how hot I look???? I hope you swipe on me/message me!!!" - but if that person doesn't get "noticed" that's not because of any flaw with the dating site -it's because the person wasn't using it primarily to date.

I think it's like, firstly you need to be noticed, because being noticed is the first step towards, either a relationship or sex, whichever is your desire... but then being noticed itself feels good... for presumably evolutionary reasons, to drive us to seek romance.

But also, for many people. Being noticed is the most they feel they can hope for. Relationships, dating, flings, sex all seem unattainable, but a match on tinder, that can happen.

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So, a question for people. What sort of things do you put in your profiles? What sorts of photos of you do you like? What sorts of information do you put in or leave out. Is it just personal preference or do you look up guides (there are many, so I know it's a thing) online on how to create a profile.

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2 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I think it's like, firstly you need to be noticed, because being noticed is the first step towards, either a relationship or sex, whichever is your desire... but then being noticed itself feels good... for presumably evolutionary reasons, to drive us to seek romance.

But also, for many people. Being noticed is the most they feel they can hope for. Relationships, dating, flings, sex all seem unattainable, but a match on tinder, that can happen.

So to me that's entirely separate from being on a dating site to date.  Someone who just hopes to be noticed has no business taking up other peoples' time on a dating site.  I never felt good by being noticed by strangers looking at a photo of me.  Maybe when I was a  teenager and was checked out by cute boys.  But I never wanted to be noticed only for my appearance -I wanted to be "noticed" by someone taking a genuine interest in wanting to know me -in a situation where I felt the same way.

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1 hour ago, Carnatic said:

So, a question for people. What sort of things do you put in your profiles? What sorts of photos of you do you like? What sorts of information do you put in or leave out. Is it just personal preference or do you look up guides (there are many, so I know it's a thing) online on how to create a profile.

When I did my profile (I stopped having a profile in 2005) I was up front that I was looking for marriage and family and not to respond if the person was not.  My goal was to have as few negatives in my profile so I only had two - no drugs/no excessive drinking.  I did a sort of fun laundry list of things I liked to do.  I listed my height and weight.

I had 4 photos.  One dressed up to go to a wedding I think, and maybe the others were head shots?  Over the years I tried to change them as needed to keep them as recent as possible.  I listed what I was looking for in a potential spouse  -I avoided gushy/psychobabble stuff -simple and direct.  

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