Doing good deeds, then holding it over someone's head

[Tonight.majestic]

While there's no "free lunch", so to speak, at the same time, if I do a good deed, I do it (mostly) with the acceptance that it won't be "repaid back".

One friend, in particular, stands out in my mind. For 4 years, I was practically her personal tutor - free of charge. I knew going in, I was never going to be "repaid" for my services. In the end, she said thank you for all you've done for me and gave me a photo album of our time together. That was it. No symbolic gifts, no dinners, etc. I didn't hold a grudge against her, and only once we got into a big fight where I said to her I feel taken advantage of (because she was stepping boundaries). But that was it. Afterwards, I never held it over her head. And I haven't asked her for any favors "back".

There are other people, however, who throw themselves at helping others, then regret it, and hold it over their heads when favors aren't returned back.

What is your opinion on this? Do you do good deeds? Do you expect to be repaid back?

 

 

[boltnrun]

If I do something with the expectation to be "paid" in some way it wouldn't be a "good deed", it would be a business transaction. 

I never expect to be "paid back" for volunteering, donating, giving a gift or doing someone a favor. I do like to be thanked, but otherwise I expect nothing. If the person tries to take advantage or acts entitled or stomps on my boundaries I simply don't extend myself anymore.

[Rose Mosse]

I would think keeping score isn't a part of goodwill gestures. Holding something over someone is only manipulative. 

Just live a good life within your means and boundaries, be clear with others and honest. Your deeds will be good regardless of the reasoning or intention.

People generally reciprocate where they feel they can and they desire to do so. 

The photo album you mentioned sounds symbolic and meaningful. 

[Batya33]

So I learned something years ago -in a religious context but I think it applies broadly.  The highest level of good deed is an anonymous one.  The  care package left at a neighbor's door because the neighbor you know is going through a lot and is reluctant to ask for help.  Noticing someone trying to get in line at the supermarket and standing back so the person can go first -even though the person has no idea you did that.  

If you feel resentful, that's on you, that's about you not respecting your own boundaries.  I am a person who reciprocates but on the other end, no I do not expect.  Example.  I almost never ask for a ride from a friend.  I have a handful of times of different people in emergencies. 

My friend is now my coworker since this past summer.  When she took the job she offered to me to pick me up on the way to the office so I wouldn't have to take public transportation.  I told her -so generous and I'm totally fine with public transportation. 

But this coming week we have a retirement party to attend at the office.  It's going to be hard for me to make it if I have to take the subway both ways and right now I don't feel particularly covid-safe in an uber.  So I asked her and she said "sure"! and I wrote to her "I hope I can reciprocate in some way!" And she immediately wrote back - no - no need ever to reciprocate, my pleasure.  I told her I'd reciprocate with funny stories on the way over.  That is a good deed.

[Wiseman2]

27 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

For 4 years, I was practically her personal tutor - free of charge.  gave me a photo album of our time together. we got into a big fight where I said to her I feel taken advantage of.

Either do something out of charity, kindness or for a fee. She gave you a photo album and said thank you. That's not enough?

 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Either do something out of charity, kindness or for a fee. She gave you a photo album and said thank you. That's not enough?

 

Good point.  I think that was a really thoughtful gift and gesture!!

[Tonight.majestic]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

She gave you a photo album and said thank you. That's not enough?

 

That's enough. The problem arose when she started EXPECTING me to tutor her additionally, including going to her house at her convenient hours and staying there until she understood the material, all at her convenience. I didn't mind the tutoring. It's when stuff like, please be here between this and that time, no later, and please pickup bread, butter and milk on the way ...because I have an appointment later on....that's when it started rubbing me off the wrong way. As if I was her maid. That's when I had to snap back and establish some boundaries.

 

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

That's when I had to snap back and establish some boundaries.

Just learn to say no to stuff you don't want to do rather than seethe until you "snap".

[Tonight.majestic]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Just learn to say no to stuff you don't want to do rather than seethe until you "snap".

That's very true.

[boltnrun]

14 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

That's enough. The problem arose when she started EXPECTING me to tutor her additionally, including going to her house at her convenient hours and staying there until she understood the material, all at her convenience. I didn't mind the tutoring. It's when stuff like, please be here between this and that time, no later, and please pickup bread, butter and milk on the way ...because I have an appointment later on....that's when it started rubbing me off the wrong way. As if I was her maid. That's when I had to snap back and establish some boundaries.

 

That's a very different scenario than asking if people expect to be "repaid" for good deeds.

This is more about someone acting entitled and taking advantage of your good nature. In this example, a simple "sorry, I can't" would suffice.

Let me give you an example. A friend asked to borrow money. She couldn't make her rent because she had spent all her money paying off her son's arrest warrants and bailing him out of jail. I told her I could spare $200. Nothing more. She did borrow the $200 and paid it back about 10 days later. Then a couple days after she paid me back she asked to borrow money again. That time I told her "sorry, I can't". I wasn't about to become the Bank of Boltnrun just because her son had chosen to get into trouble and she chose to pay for his bad decisions.

She and I are still friends, BTW.

[Tonight.majestic]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

 I told her I could spare $200. Nothing more. She did borrow the $200 and paid it back about 10 days later. Then a couple days after she paid me back she asked to borrow money again. That time I told her "sorry, I can't". I wasn't about to become the Bank of Boltnrun just because her son had chosen to get into trouble and she chose to pay for his bad decisions.

 

If a friend repaid me back, I'd probably extend the favor for a second time. If she didn't repay me back, then I'd probably not extend the offer a second time around.

 

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

If a friend repaid me back, I'd probably extend the favor for a second time. If she didn't repay me back, then I'd probably not extend the offer a second time around.

 

That's fine of course because it's your boundary. Mine was not to allow her to make a habit of assuming I'd keep lending her money.

[SooSad33]

1 hour ago, Tonight.majestic said:

The problem arose when she started EXPECTING me to tutor her additionally, including going to her house at her convenient hours and staying there until she understood the material, all at her convenience. I didn't mind the tutoring. It's when stuff like, please be here between this and that time, no later, and please pickup bread, butter and milk on the way ...because I have an appointment later on....that's when it started rubbing me off the wrong way. As if I was her maid. That's when I had to snap back and establish some boundaries.

Right, so YOU need to be more vocal on YOUR boundaries. So, you just say ' No, sorry I can't make there for that day/time' and just say if or when you can make it.  And do not make yourself readily available for her needs.

Yes, does sound like her expectations have been a little too high.

I don't mind grabbing something for an actual 'friend', IF I am actually going shopping & they need something ( as I would ask...).

[HeartGoesOn]

Based on your previous threads I have to ask, where are you finding these friends?

[Tonight.majestic]

2 hours ago, HeartGoesOn said:

Based on your previous threads I have to ask, where are you finding these friends?

I really think it's rare for most friendships to survive past a certain number of years. Then you either become acquaintances or just fade away.

[boltnrun]

14 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

I really think it's rare for most friendships to survive past a certain number of years. Then you either become acquaintances or just fade away.

I have friendships that go back over 30 years. My closest friend and I have been friends for 44 years. I have other friends who I've been close to for over 20 years (yeah, I am old lol).

Acquaintances are a different story. Those people come and go.

[Cherylyn]

Having had several experiences similar to yours, I have several thoughts regarding your post, Tonight.majestic.

Like you, I've gone above and beyond for various people in my life such as neighbors, people in my community, friends, acquaintances, relatives and in-laws.  I'm burned out.

When you do a good deed, if you go in with the mindset of unconditional good deeds, you won't feel as if anyone owes you anything in return.  This includes favors when you need them in the future, special kindness, special treatment, favoritism, thank you notes (postal, text, email or voicemail) or treating you as if you're unique to the recipient.  In a conscientious world, the recipient would also go above and beyond for you to express their gratitude.  Unfortunately, this is not how the world reacts towards you the majority of time.  Most of the time, once people benefit from you and you're no longer needed nor useful to them, they'll either treat you indifferently, with apathy, react cheaply or lukewarmly or at best, simply remain civil.  This is human nature so grow accustomed to it.

Your friend's photo album was cheesy but know that this is the best she can do for you.  Yes, it's disappointing but it's all she is willing to offer to express her thanks. 

Like you, I too felt bitter and resentful towards those who never extended any form of kindness towards me after I invested YEARS of goodwill, my time, labor, money, sincere efforts to constantly help only to receive their frosty, smug attitude in return after the fact.  Or, lukewarm to tepid response at best.

I agree with others.  Learn to say, "NO."  Decline politely and graciously.  You can still be kind towards others without being taken advantage. 

This friend whom you tutored got off cheap!  She received your free tutoring services on call as you remained on standby at her beck and call.  Normal, nice people aren't this nice with all due respect to you.  Normal people know when and how to decline gently yet remain firm.  You need to practice this type of adamant response and make it a habit.

My opinion regarding good deeds is about the person you're doing good deeds for.  If they're the type to express gratitude by giving you a symbolic gesture such as treating you to a meal, gift, sincere postal thank you note (which is an extra special touch compared to an electronic message) or helps you when you need them, then yes, I do good deeds for them.  For example, if I give up my weekends to help someone move to another house, this person or couple helped me move to my new house when I needed their help.  This type of "helping each other out" arrangement shows appreciation for one another as talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder than words. 

There were times as I recall, when certain good deeds were not paid back nor expected.  For example, long ago, a water pipe burst in my parents' backyard during the middle of the night.  It shot up like a geyser around midnight.  Approximately a dozen pajama and bathrobe clad neighborhood men immediately came to my late father's rescue by helping him repair this pipe which would've flooded our backyard.  Mind you, these men had to report to their jobs during midweek yet they gave up their sleep for my father and my family.  It took approximately 5 to 6 hours before this pipe was repaired and these neighbors saved us during our time of desperate need.  I remember watching the sunrise.  We never repaid them nor did they expect us to repay them.  My mother gave each neighbor home baked goods, a lovely thank you note and we waved to one another every single time our cars drove past them.  There were no tally marks to keep score on this friendship with neighbors.  The unspoken rule was to help each other out during emergencies and to do so unconditionally.  This was reasonable help.  What you did as a tutor for however long the tutoring dragged out, was excessive and unreasonable.

Whenever there was tumult, birth, death, financial hardship, sickness or an emergency, my mother brought home cooked meals for our neighbors.  (She worked full time, too!)

I think that was a different era though.  I've noticed that people have more excuses nowadays such as they're too busy, too cheap by choice yet they buy things for themselves, don't reciprocate because they're not the type to do it and their various reasons.  However, they have to qualms taking from you whether it's your money, services, material items, food, good deeds, labor, time and knowledge!  They just don't give back because either they weren't taught to reciprocate or they don't feel like doing anything for you in return.

My exception are my in-laws.  They've experienced some emergencies lately so I've been bringing home cooked meals for them.  I send my husband off with these meals in tow and and he delivers them to his childhood house.  However, they're EXTREMELY generous to my husband, me and our sons ~ monetarily.   Money talks.  Hence, I express my gratitude in my own way and they appreciate my efforts especially regarding home cooked meals.

I'm not quite as nice and generous as I was years ago towards others because like you, people disappoint me.  I'm kind and nice up to a point, however, I have my limits nowadays.  I follow other people's cues and copy them.  If they're very generous with their time, money, labor, efforts, (or favors) and goodwill, then likewise, I always reciprocate.  If they've demonstrated to me that they're too busy or don't put forth the same type of effort and care I've done for them, I back off and maintain a cool yet well mannered distance. 

Some people never feel beholden to you.  They have a rather lackadaisical attitude towards you so grow accustomed to it because this is how society operates. 

Do less to nil and you'll never feel used.  Go your own way.  You can be kind towards others in other ways without inconveniencing yourself.  I agree with others.  Enforce healthy boundaries with others and you'll feel better.  I've changed.  I was once you.  No more.  I'm nice to people.  The only difference is that I don't go overboard anymore.  Make friendships and relationships balanced and fair because this means you are treating yourself with respect.  Be kind to yourself and never allow anyone to treat you like a doormat.  With practice, you will hone these skills.  Be cool.

 

[Cherylyn]

28 minutes ago, Tonight.majestic said:

I really think it's rare for most friendships to survive past a certain number of years. Then you either become acquaintances or just fade away.

It depends on who they are. 

For me, blood is thicker than water. 

However,  I have a few dear, local friends dating back all the way back from childhood.  We reciprocate but don't take advantage of each other.  No one burdens one another.  We exchange birthday and Christmas gifts every year and we're generous.  No one is cheap.  We've met for meals, invited each other over for dinner, enjoyed game night afterwards, attended church, ballet, symphonies, cooking demos / classes, went on excursions, museums, walked at parks, had all day outings at shopping malls, all of it ~ we did this more often pre-pandemic, of course.

I agree, long term friends are rare.  It does happen though. 

Lower your expectations and you'll be surprised when some friends end up as keepers.  In the meantime, focus on your marriage and family life because that's what matters most. 

 

 

[Tonight.majestic]

1 hour ago, Cherylyn said:

Your friend's photo album was cheesy but know that this is the best she can do for you.  Yes, it's disappointing but it's all she is willing to offer to express her thanks.

This friend whom you tutored got off cheap!  She received your free tutoring services on call as you remained on standby at her beck and call.  Normal, nice people aren't this nice with all due respect to you. 

Some people never feel beholden to you.  They have a rather lackadaisical attitude towards you so grow accustomed to it because this is how society operates.

 

I don't feel bitter towards her. I knew from the get go she wouldn't give me much of anything.

But, the more I gave, the more she demanded.

On our graduation day, she called me later in the evening to invite me over for dinner at a restaurant. Initially, I wanted to go. Then she mentioned something about how it'll be convenient if we split costs for the custom cake. I was upset - all those years of tutoring and I gotta cover the cost of cake...with her name on it too!

We are friends, but I'm no longer helping her out. She has asked me to tutor her on several occasions, jokingly, seeing if I'll budge. I said no. She's on to another friend now, who admitted to me in private she's becoming overbearing. She's a sweet girl, but she's also a big time user and she's overbearing if she doesn't get what she wants.

But, now I'm very cautious about how I "use" people and what I give in return.

I agree with what you wrote but, what if your in-laws weren't as generous financially because they lacked the means? What if you did far more for them? Would you still be making them home cooked meals?

Sometimes, the recipients cannot extend the same back due to limited means.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Tonight.majestic said:

I really think it's rare for most friendships to survive past a certain number of years. Then you either become acquaintances or just fade away.

Really?? Not my experience at all or those of many I know.  I texted with a good friend today -we were out of touch for about 8 years but otherwise we've been close since 1978.  Another friend and I are close since 1980.  A friend I met -in person -through a message board like this -we've been close since 2003.  My husband has good friends since the late 1970s and those he met in college and grad school - 80s -90s.  We've known our son's godfather -and our best man at our wedding -since the mid 1990s and my husband and he have been close that whole time. It might be rare for you but many people I know have long lasting close friendships.  

[itsallgrand]

So this made me recall a time when a coworker I was friendly with gave me a blanket. I didn't need or ask for one, it was for my birthday, and I thought it was just a nice thing she was doing because she wanted to. However, later on, she was telling me how her daughter and herself needed a ride someplace and she knew I had a vehicle. She actually got visibly upset when I declined to drive them, because in her mind, I "owed her one" after taking the blanket. 🤔 This is so far off from how I view giving, and I don't like to ever feel indebted to anyone. I would had declined the blanket had I known it was with a provision that I now am seen as "owing". 

It's very interesting how people approach it differently, there's all kinds of factors involved. So I'm cautious with it particularly with people who I don't know well enough to know how they will take it when giving or receiving. I still do sometimes throw out a wild act of kindness, but it's with no expectation involved. Just a hope and belief in being 4he kind of person I want to be. What people do with it after is out of my hands. 

With friends and those I know how the dynamic is, it's different. I give according to the trust built and level of reciprocity. It's about the relationship. 

 

[Cherylyn]

6 hours ago, Tonight.majestic said:

I don't feel bitter towards her. I knew from the get go she wouldn't give me much of anything.

But, the more I gave, the more she demanded.

On our graduation day, she called me later in the evening to invite me over for dinner at a restaurant. Initially, I wanted to go. Then she mentioned something about how it'll be convenient if we split costs for the custom cake. I was upset - all those years of tutoring and I gotta cover the cost of cake...with her name on it too!

We are friends, but I'm no longer helping her out. She has asked me to tutor her on several occasions, jokingly, seeing if I'll budge. I said no. She's on to another friend now, who admitted to me in private she's becoming overbearing. She's a sweet girl, but she's also a big time user and she's overbearing if she doesn't get what she wants.

But, now I'm very cautious about how I "use" people and what I give in return.

I agree with what you wrote but, what if your in-laws weren't as generous financially because they lacked the means? What if you did far more for them? Would you still be making them home cooked meals?

Sometimes, the recipients cannot extend the same back due to limited means.

The more you gave, the more she expected more out of you.  Some people take advantage of your kindness and generosity.  It's the way of the world.  "If you give an inch, they'll take a mile."  This is why I'm nice but I don't over do it with my niceness.  

So let me get this straight.  You tutored her for YEARS and she invited you for dinner yet she told you that have you have to pay for half of the custom cake with HER name on it.  She's boorish and  cheap!  It is flabbergasting and disgusting indeed. 

She's not your friend because she doesn't act like one.  She is considered an acquaintance at this point.  Good thing you've since learned to say "NO."  She should be onto another friend to use for free tutoring as long as it's NOT you!  She's not a sweet girl.  A sweet girl doesn't use and take advantage of others. 

I do a lot for my in-laws regarding my delivery of home cooked meals to their house in the event of emergencies.  It's the least I can do considering how generous they are monetarily and for many years, they've been very devoted to my husband, me and our sons.  I hadn't forgotten. 

I have relatives (mom, sister, brother, my sister's husband, cousin, etc.) who enjoy a good time (restaurant meals together, occasional gatherings at my sister's house and such) and superficial chit chat.  They are "Good Time Charlies" or "fair weather friends."  However, in the past, they weren't morally supportive nor helped us (non-monetarily) when I needed them.  The moral of this story is:  "What goes around, comes around."  Sure, I'm kind and peaceful towards them but I only reward people if they've earned it.   Had they been there for me during my tumult, yes, I would go to great lengths to give everything of me.  However, I don't have amnesia.  If people just take, take, take without ever giving back in any capacity (not necessarily with money or tangible objects), this type of friendship or relationship is unfair and unbalanced.  Hence, my tepid, indifferent, apathetic attitude towards those who "forgot" what I had done for them. 

[greendots]

8 hours ago, HeartGoesOn said:

Based on your previous threads I have to ask, where are you finding these friends?

This! It's time to filter the people you welcome into your life as friends, especially close ones. People who disrespect you aren't friends. People who keep a tally of everything they've done for you aren't friends either.

[Cherylyn]

56 minutes ago, greendots said:

This! It's time to filter the people you welcome into your life as friends, especially close ones. People who disrespect you aren't friends. People who keep a tally of everything they've done for you aren't friends either.

And, people who've never bothered to extend the same or similar kindness you had bestowed upon them aren't your friends either.  All they do is receive yet they exhibit no qualms giving anything of themselves to you which is arrogant, selfish and self-centered.  It's all about them and they could care less about your feelings.  They lack empathy.  I've encountered many people as described.  The best thing to do is to simply leave them alone and be with high quality people or friends who know how to behave graciously towards you. 

[Wiseman2]

It's time to stop trying to make people like you. There is a very consistent pattern of contradicting yourself.

This is not about others or how "demanding" they are. This is about lack of self respect and boundaries.

You need to understand that you can't make people like you by being a doormat. Instead strive to be respected by respecting yourself.