Is it normal for a man to keep expecting money from a woman?

[catfeeder]

15 hours ago, pinkrose2021 said:

Yes, I really need to work on this self esteem and 'worth' bit so I don't attract the same again.

It's not that high-self esteem won't 'attract' predators, predators will try ANYone.

Self esteem is the one thing that immunizes you against them. You'll recognize them and walk away instead of engaging them.

Advice from Grandma: "The problem isn't that snakes will cross your path, they will. The problem comes when you don't think enough of yourself to avoid picking up the snake to play with it."

Head high, and keep on moving forward.

[pinkrose2021]

18 hours ago, DancingFool said:

The first sentence is the definition of trying to buy love and affection from someone.

The second sentence......how did that not give you the creeps and send you running for your life??? Serious question.

Think about it - how can a complete stranger who doesn't know you just love you out of the blue - you, the person, the individual, who is complex, who has her dreams and life experiences he knows nothing about, quirks and habits he knows nothing about? True love takes time, takes getting to know each other for real. It's not a word tossed at a stranger you've barely met.

Sane men are not going to pursue you against your will and force themselves into your life because they have this thing called respect for other people. Only predators are pushy, forceful, in a sweep you off your feet kind of way whether you like it or not. This man is a predator and he pursued you purely because he saw that you are vulnerable and an easy target.

Thankfully, you do at least have some boundaries and managed to draw some lines and say no to his demands. Unfortunately, you are still a bit confused and over invested and treating this thing like a relationship when in reality you've only seen him 6 times in your life. A few dates does not a relationship make, OP.

Block this man from ever contacting you again. Going forward, when you notice that a man is trampling your boundaries, end things immediately. Also, being giving is all good, buuuuut healthy relationships are all about reciprocation. Goes back to don't keep giving and giving when he is not giving back equally in whatever form. If you keep giving and giving just hoping to get something eventually....you are trying to buy a relationship and it will never work.

You said that you want a man who simply cares for you, so why are you chasing a man who clearly doesn't? Maybe think long and hard what genuine care looks like? You don't have to look far - look in the mirror and find someone who is like you, kind, giving, has his life together, etc.

He told me he loved me the second time we started speaking after our break up. Yes he knew that I was closed off and pushing back on him. But how knows what went through his mind. I would want to believe he had the right intent 😞 A friend/mentor said the same thing 6 dates is NOT a real relationship. Having said this - we had the intent to get married 😞 never again I will commit to anyone unless I have known them for longer. It was all very dreamy, but that is what narcissist do - they future fake, and show you the dreams. I just didn't know any better. I thought I have the right heart for others, and want to see good in people. 

Thank you - I needed to hear this 'healthy relationships are all about reciprocation' - I did not see this in my family. Its full of broken marriages, and I do not wish to continue this pattern into my future, and change it for good.

I do have a psychologist who has been helping me, and she said the same thing that fortunately I did have some boundaries which meant I said NO to his demand.

He has shown again and again and again that he does not care. Actions speak louder than words, yet I keep having this feeling of wanting him. 

One thing is for sure, if he ever contacts me, I am not responding to him again.

Hopefully its not too much to ask to meet someone who is 'kind, giving and has his life together' - so far yet to attract that type. I need to believe it is possible, but having seem my biological father - epitome of failure, and now being an over achiever myself, it is so hard

15 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

This sounds like trauma bonding.. They 'love you', then hate you. Push & pull.  Making you want to try again.. making you miss them.  Is all crap!

I am sure you are well aware of the effects now, as you stated, a narcissist.  They are nasty 😕 .

So, be strong and do NOT reach out again.  You owe him Nothing!

Wonder why he's single at 40? 😉 .  I'm sure many other's have been messed up by his behaviour as well.

No loss.. just stay far away.  I encountered a few in my time.  One set me off badly a few yrs ago.

 

Hi SooSaad - yes it is trauma bonding. You are right in wondering why he's single at 40. But same could be said about me - why am I single being in my mid 30s? But I have spent all this time working and building a life and strong financial foundations. Due to my background and upbringing, I wanted to make sure I never have to ever be concerned about money and that took priority. I am now ready to be in a relationship.

As for him - he is 40yo - he made life decisions along the way, from my perspective he does not have a real direction in life and where it is headed. If anything, I have been worried about him and his future - wanting him to be looked after longer term. He did say in the past he would see women, meet them a few times, and not be interested in them. With me it lasted a bit longer, along with intent of marriage! I know for a fact that had we proceeded to that, I would have lost my life's work and my future would have been ruined. But this realisation does not help the pain and sadness I am experiencing.

 

14 hours ago, Batya33 said:

To me this approach is completely inappropriate - taking this role- with someone you're newly dating.  I was dating someone a short time and he had an interview.  Similar fields and I am skilled at interviewing.  So I did a mock interview to help him prepare.  Spent about 30 minutes.  He was really appreciative.  And he thought it was a good idea and it was kind of fun too!  That's ok as opposed to the tasks and role you took on with this person - did you actually want him as a client/want him to refer business to you??

He didn't put you in this situation.  You can say no, you can say partially no, whatever.  You chose to be in this situation.  Why?

Never expected him to be a client or expect him to refer business. He was not my type of client, neither would his circle been....but wait....he never introduced me to his circle. He barely uses FB, so while we were together, it was deactivated, but then it was activated and I found it. The type of people he hangs around with, would have been such a mismatch. Wonder if he was hiding? Why would someone do this? 

11 hours ago, Lambert said:

You're right. You want someone that wants you so much they will value you all along. 

But you have to watch and learn what a person is about.  

You said after month 1 he started pushing you away....

when this happens you have to check your ego and stop yourself from chasing him, trying to get him back to being nice. Your ego will tell you, you have to try harder and do more.  

But you don't! You pull back! You protect yourself and your heart.

you value yourself so much you only give your attention to guys that treat you with kindness and respect all the time.

Thank you - lesson learnt - I thought something was wrong with me that he was pushing me away. He is the one who was speaking to me for hours initially, but things changed so drastically, I was left wondering if he is the same person I actually know. It is a huge lesson for me. I should have walked off a long time ago....but I got involved with him the 2nd time when we started speaking. Actions speak louder than words. 

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

It's not that high-self esteem won't 'attract' predators, predators will try ANYone.

Self esteem is the one thing that immunizes you against them. You'll recognize them and walk away instead of engaging them.

Advice from Grandma: "The problem isn't that snakes will cross your path, they will. The problem comes when you don't think enough of yourself to avoid picking up the snake to play with it."

Head high, and keep on moving forward.

Thank you 😞 

Edited December 10, 2021 by pinkrose2021

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, pinkrose2021 said:

he is 40yo - he made life decisions along the way, from my perspective he does not have a real direction in life and where it is headed. If anything, I have been worried about him and his future - wanting him to be looked after longer term. He did say in the past he would see women, meet them a few times, and not be interested in them. With me it lasted a bit longer, along with intent of marriage! I know for a fact that had we proceeded to that, I would have lost my life's work and my future would have been ruined. But this realisation does not help the pain and sadness I am experiencing

This seems really unhealthy.  You were dating him yes? You weren't his parental figure, his therapist, his boss.  No you would not have lost your life's work and had your future ruined.  But you may have through your choices chose to prioritize your need to be his savior of sorts over your own livelihood and well being. That's on you. 

Big deal if he's 40 and serially dates.  So what? Why is it your business whether he is "looked after long term?" He's 40, an adult, he gets to make his own choices.  You're not his spouse or common law partner.  Why did you want to marry someone you saw as needing this level of help from you? Don't you want to be with more of an equal?  

I'm sorry your father was not a stand up man.  He is one man.  He was your father and that is so hard to get over.  I know.  My father was very ill and could not be there for us in the way I knew he wanted to be.  It's hard to get over that.  But I did because my goal was marriage and family. 

I'd avoid indulging in the "is it too much to ask".  Instead get 100% clear on what your musts and standards and values are. I had a relatively short list of musts -meaning total dealbreakers if the person didn't meet those criteria.  Then I had a list of "preferences" too.  The "is it too much to ask" is a path of self pity.  But dating requires a thick skin, it's hard to find a forever relationship -really, really hard! - but you decide if it's worth it.  If it's not 110% worth it I say don't bother. 

I invested so much time and energy and tears and adrenaline and sleepless nights into finding my person.  No regrets at all.  All worth it.  No not because I have the perfect marriage or life.  I do not.  I don't expect to.  I know in my head and my heart and down to my ugly long toes I have my person, I know I had to become the right person to find the right person .

I was almost 40 when I finally got there, and reconnected with him and he was almost 40 too.  I'm sure we were each judged on "wow you're 39 and STILL SINGLE."  I'm sure my mother worried about me because of my slowly dying eggs and ticking clock - I'm sure cause she told me.  More than once.  But she let me be me.  She didn't try to be my savior and tell me how worried she was for my future - a coupla slips on that count but you know she's my momma. 

You're not his momma.  You're not his boss.  Did it excite you to swoop in and try to save him from himself?  Get very clear on your motivations.  Not that you care "so much" and worry "so much" -but how does that dynamic benefit you, excite you, give you pleasure -and do you wish to keep repeating it?

[SooSad33]

11 hours ago, pinkrose2021 said:

If anything, I have been worried about him and his future - wanting him to be looked after longer term. He did say in the past he would see women, meet them a few times, and not be interested in them. With me it lasted a bit longer, along with intent of marriage! I know for a fact that had we proceeded to that, I would have lost my life's work and my future would have been ruined. But this realisation does not help the pain and sadness I am experiencing.

Okay, so look at his track record, admitting how he'd meet up with a few women = short term only.

So, with you, things lasted a bit longer.. BUT, you two have only been involved a few months? You said you met up with him earlier this year?

In no way should something like talk or idea of marriage be mentioned at all.. Not until maybe a couple years from now, when you actually DO feel comfortable with this guy and know you are truly compatible, etc.

 

And I am sorry for your pains.. this is the way it can be. Been there 😕 ( hence trauma bonding) . It all ends up really messing you up... When, in reality people like this are not even capable of proper 'love'.  Is like an inability because they are so messed up & toxic.

Give yourself time to work through all of this and I am sure, in time, you will be glad you've gotten out of this.. for your own mentality.

 

[boltnrun]

He likely brought up love and marriage because he figured it would make you open up your bank account. He didn't really mean it.

I'm sorry this happened. But you can be more proactive about looking after yourself going forward.

[reinventmyself]

Why was he so attentive in the beginning?  Because he saw you as a target.   A target with money.  After several attempts to extort money from you and guilt trip you about, he realizes his woo-ing isn't getting you to open your purse and he then backs off.

Yet in the end you sum this up as him being a Narcissist?  He may or may not be, but that is grossly secondary to the fact that he's a legit con artist.  And all the while he was trying to con you, you were missing that critical factor.  It's only after he's gone he's a Narcissist?  While N's are nasty creatures, just the mere mention of this suggest you overlooked - and might still overlook - the fact that you were being lured by a con artist.  I think that's the most important thing to focus on in all of this. 

Because in some small ways, as I read what you shared that transpired, (even though you seem to recognized something was off)  you still made excuses as why he was entitled to keep pressing you about paying for things.

[SherrySher]

I only got through half of what you wrote because right away I could see that he was a user and a loser.

Dump this guy, delete, block, don't allow him in your life.

He is straight out toxic.

Please get this person out of your life. He is damaging.

[pinkrose2021]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

There is much work which I need to do with my coaches and a therapist, so I can work through, and recognise, so I can heal, as well as accept that he was just "using me", and then back off each time he didn't have his way.

I feel so silly for getting involved the second time with him - even though we weren't 'together' there were still expectations to benefit him.

Perhaps I have been saved, as he showed his colours now rather than later.

I need to work on what is acceptable / unacceptable in a relationship, as I have had the worst of role models in my biological father.

One of my coaches said to me - this has happened so I can break this pattern I have seen all my life moving forward.

Need to learn to love myself, and have better standards.

Really appreciate all your input, I will come back and re-read all your comments, as a reminder that it was not a normal/real relationship, and I was in a lose-lose situation 😞 

 

[SherrySher]

11 hours ago, pinkrose2021 said:

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

There is much work which I need to do with my coaches and a therapist, so I can work through, and recognise, so I can heal, as well as accept that he was just "using me", and then back off each time he didn't have his way.

I feel so silly for getting involved the second time with him - even though we weren't 'together' there were still expectations to benefit him.

Perhaps I have been saved, as he showed his colours now rather than later.

I need to work on what is acceptable / unacceptable in a relationship, as I have had the worst of role models in my biological father.

One of my coaches said to me - this has happened so I can break this pattern I have seen all my life moving forward.

Need to learn to love myself, and have better standards.

Really appreciate all your input, I will come back and re-read all your comments, as a reminder that it was not a normal/real relationship, and I was in a lose-lose situation 😞 

 

Don't feel bad. 

People come into our life either as a lesson, or a blessing. Both have their value..why? Because with a lesson, you learn the lessons needed in order to grow, become more experienced, more wise.

You learn as a person how to see the signs better of someone worthy in your life, and someone who is not.

You learn how to become stronger, by overcoming the pain and hurt the toxic person who was in your life, has brought.

You won't be as easily fooled and you won't allow yourself to be treated as badly.

Because of all of those lessons, you will be directed toward someone who is better suited for you, who will love you and treat your properly.

At the time, it seems all doom and gloom to be going through these lessons, but they can direct you to so much more fulfilment and happiness once the lesson is learnt and you find much better people and situations to be in.

Don't fret, better is coming...if you allow yourself that.

[pinkrose2021]

Hi all

Really struggling today. It is not easy moving forward.

I keep missing the man who was disrespectful, and taking advantage of me.

I know there is no future, even if I was to speak to him, the same pattern will repeat.

Apparently it takes 63 days for a habit to form, so will take some time healing.

The head says yes this is right, but heart is in tremendous pain. 

Sherry, you are right - doom and gloom now, but once lesson is learnt it will be so worth it.

Life experience has shown to me, things happen and eventually you learn why something happened and how it fits into the puzzle perfectly. 

With Christmas and my Birthday around the corner.... hopefully I can have some peace, rather than keep feeling that gap in my life that he left behind 😢 

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, pinkrose2021 said:

 keep feeling that gap in my life that he left behind 😢 

Sorry this is happening. However, if you are honest with yourself, you know it's not about this man. You know it's about longstanding loneliness and undertreated depression and whatever happened before.

There's no such thing as a "trauma bond" with someone you barely knew. This is psychology-speak from your past or Google.

You are choosing this latest situation to blame for long term unhappiness and disappointments

 However you need to find the root cause for that, only then will you be able to resolve all this.

In fact, your untreated underlying issues is what led you to this situation, not the other way around.

 

[SherrySher]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You know it's about longstanding loneliness and undertreated depression and whatever happened before.

Absolutely true.

You're not thinking clearly when you have these two factors clouding your judgement and emotions.

Have you sought out a good therapist to help you not only with the current issue but with the depression, etc. as well?

It can make a world of difference and give you a place to not only heal, but release and vent all the emotions and pain that is causing you to continue reaching for something/someone toxic.

It's okay, you can get through this. Find the tools necessary in order to help you through this.

Therapy is a good start. 

 

 

[reinventmyself]

5 hours ago, pinkrose2021 said:

Hi all

Really struggling today. It is not easy moving forward.

I keep missing the man who was disrespectful, and taking advantage of me.

I know there is no future, even if I was to speak to him, the same pattern will repeat.

Apparently it takes 63 days for a habit to form, so will take some time healing.

The head says yes this is right, but heart is in tremendous pain. 

 

You have something in common with this man.  There seems to be void in your life and you were not very discriminating on what or who you fill it up with.  Voids can be painful unless you choose to look at them differently.  Instead of filling it up with the attention of a man who does not know you, look at this as a time of growth and challenge yourself to fill the void in different, healthy ways.  

In his own way, for reasons we can't exactly know he fills his void with women in an opportunistic, predator sort of way.  Your eagerness made you a target.

It takes months to really get to know someone.  There are so many lessons here.  But the biggest takeaway its impossible to be in love you without knowing you.  I personally recoil when a man tells me he loves me in the time frame you describe.  It's a clear sign he's just looking for any warm body to fill an unhealthy void. That's not love.

Edited December 13, 2021 by reinventmyself

[DancingFool]

OP, at some point you need to step away from this blame game where you cast yourself as the helpless victim.

Neither your dad nor this guy have anything to do with your extremely immature personal ideas of what dating/love/relationships look like. Real life relationships aren't a rom com where a man will swoop in, instantly fall in love with you even though he doesn't even know you, and you'll be married by Christmas. 

In some ways, your own behavior is extremely compulsive and something to look into and address. Whether this is driven by loneliness, depression, other issues, or a combination of everything, you need to find effective means to tackle those issues instead of blaming others. You can't fix you when you keep acting like a victim to whom life just happens.

When you point your finger at your father or call this guy a narcissist, you are dodging ownership of the only thing you can control and change - yourself. Also, I very much doubt this guy is a narcissist who cast some spell over you.

A man you barely know told you he is in love with you on a second date and instead of finding that amusing, absurd, or even insulting to your intelligence, you drank it up. Even now, you are choosing to bs yourself with the idea that he must have meant it at least a little. Come on, OP. He isn't manipulating you. You are manipulating yourself.

It's great that you have therapists and coaching, but....how effective are they if you are going through life not addressing your own compulsiveness and unrealistic romantic ideas? Are they ignoring these blame games or are you refusing to let go of it against all advice?

[catfeeder]

On 12/12/2021 at 3:46 AM, pinkrose2021 said:

Perhaps I have been saved, as he showed his colours now rather than later.

He showed his true colors all the way back at the very first time he asked you for money.

That's what we are all trying to tell you.

That's not acceptable--EVER.

That would have been the time to not only guard your wallet, but to get thee to a ladies room, call someone you trust to come to your location, and walk away with your trusted person safely to never take so much as a message or a phone call from this guy ever again.

AND, from the safety of your trusted companion's home or that person in yours, Google then contact your local domestic violence agency to speak with a disinterested counselor to learn how to guard yourself against a potential stalker--because ANYone who would come into your life and ask for money is not just 'unacceptable,' he's a mental case and potentially dangerous.

If your coaches and therapist have not said these things to you, they are worthless and also taking your money while offering no value. It means they don't want to risk offending you so that their gravy train isn't halted.

Consider finding a better 'support' system--one in which you are being supported rather than supporting 'yes' people around you.

Head high, and write more if it helps.