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13 hours ago, gamon said:

You sound like my dad, my role model. It's taken me the better part of 6 decades to realize why he's always been a failure with women and to change my own habits so as not to mirror his, and try to express my feelings more. My girlfriend is right when out of frustration with me being emotionally unavailable she says "you're just like your father!".

Old habits die hard Wally, however the first step in making improvements in yourself is to be accountable and well informed as to what's appropriate and what isn't, and what's important to your relationship partner. You sir, have got a ways to go yet.

 

 

A ways to go, huh?  First off, I've been happily married for 16 years and I love my wife with all my heart.  When she feels sad or vulnerable it's my job to support her whether it's just an ear to listen, a shoulder to cry on, or some logic and reason as to why it's not as bad as she thinks.  If you guys feel women want a beta male instead, have fun getting walked all over.  

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5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Why would men who show emotions be considered "beta"?

I saw JJ Watt cry on TV. I challenge you to go up to him and call him "beta" LOL.

He can't be a beta because he's big and sacks quarterbacks?  If he feels like he needs to cry, ok, fine. Doing it on TV for attention and sympathy is definitely beta and I'd tell him that even if it meant by own disfigurement.  

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20 hours ago, Wise Wally said:

A ways to go, huh?  First off, I've been happily married for 16 years and I love my wife with all my heart.  When she feels sad or vulnerable it's my job to support her whether it's just an ear to listen, a shoulder to cry on, or some logic and reason as to why it's not as bad as she thinks.  If you guys feel women want a beta male instead, have fun getting walked all over.  

What about when you feel sad and vulnerable? Or do you pretend not to have those feelings until they turn into something else?

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2 hours ago, Carnatic said:

What about when you feel sad and vulnerable? Or do you pretend not to have those feelings until they turn into something else?

Of course I feel sad at times, everyone does although I'm not sure about vulnerable.  Men should be strong enough to deal with these issues internally.  What does "turn into something else" mean?  I internalize it so much that I jump off a bridge?  What are my alternatives?  Have my wife pat me on the back and tell me everything is going to be ok? Life can certainly suck, but real men have to suck it up and be strong, especially for the sake of their significant other.  If both parties of a relationship are overly emotional and lack basic logic and reason, then it's not going to work.  Hell, you see examples of that on these boards every day.  

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11 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

please elaborate

hmm.  So my father for example would have died probably as much as 60 or so years before he did in his 80s had he not expressed his emotions and gotten the help he desperately needed. 

My husband would not have conveyed appropriately to the hundred people or so at my father in law's funeral that his father was his best friend had he not stood up and delivered his eulogy, at times tearfully - because according to you he should have been "strong" and not shown emotion.  We all got how close he was to his father because he chose to be strong and express emotion. 

At my son's baby naming when we told our family and friends who attended why we chose the names we did we both got teary and overwhelmed with emotion.  I felt so bonded with him when we were talking to those gathered about the history behind our son's first and middle names, and had he chosen instead to be so-called "strong" and describe it stoically we all would have missed out.  And if he -hypothetically!! -had given me some hogwash about how I could get teary (especially as a brand new mom) but he couldn't and had to be "strong" I'd have found that lame (and weak).

When one of my dearest friends in the world -also my cousin -died young of cancer, her husband -her new husband -who was very stoic and "masculine" called me shortly after she passed and was tearful about aspects of their relationship, shared with me his fears and doubts and heaven forbid I'd have been thinking how "weak" he was to get teary and emotional on the phone instead of being there with him and for him and telling him yes yes yes she loved him so much and he was her hero during their 2 year marriage during which she was terminal. 

Can you imagine if I had that mindset -if I did that would have distracted me from showing the support and compassion he needed.  I was honored he chose to get that emotional and real with me so I could help him! 

Edited to add -my son is 12. I've never ever said to him and never will anything resembling "big boys don't cry".  I'm proud of how he expresses compassion and caring to others and hope that never changes.  He's been like that since age 3 or earlier.

Edited by Batya33
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26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

hmm.  So my father for example would have died probably as much as 60 or so years before he did in his 80s had he not expressed his emotions and gotten the help he desperately needed. 

My husband would not have conveyed appropriately to the hundred people or so at my father in law's funeral that his father was his best friend had he not stood up and delivered his eulogy, at times tearfully - because according to you he should have been "strong" and not shown emotion.  We all got how close he was to his father because he chose to be strong and express emotion. 

At my son's baby naming when we told our family and friends who attended why we chose the names we did we both got teary and overwhelmed with emotion.  I felt so bonded with him when we were talking to those gathered about the history behind our son's first and middle names, and had he chosen instead to be so-called "strong" and describe it stoically we all would have missed out.  And if he -hypothetically!! -had given me some hogwash about how I could get teary (especially as a brand new mom) but he couldn't and had to be "strong" I'd have found that lame (and weak).

When one of my dearest friends in the world -also my cousin -died young of cancer, her husband -her new husband -who was very stoic and "masculine" called me shortly after she passed and was tearful about aspects of their relationship, shared with me his fears and doubts and heaven forbid I'd have been thinking how "weak" he was to get teary and emotional on the phone instead of being there with him and for him and telling him yes yes yes she loved him so much and he was her hero during their 2 year marriage during which she was terminal. 

Can you imagine if I had that mindset -if I did that would have distracted me from showing the support and compassion he needed.  I was honored he chose to get that emotional and real with me so I could help him! 

Edited to add -my son is 12. I've never ever said to him and never will anything resembling "big boys don't cry".  I'm proud of how he expresses compassion and caring to others and hope that never changes.  He's been like that since age 3 or earlier.

You use some very extreme examples with your anecdotes.  First of all, I never said "Big boys don't cry".  I got teary-eyed the first time my son got a game-winning hit in little league and I also got teary-eyed at my own dad's funeral (and he was an a-hole). On the flip side, when my wife's father passed away right in front of us, me breaking down wasn't going to help anyone.  If she was going to get through that, I needed to be her rock.  If your dad cheated death in his 20's, I suspect his issues went far beyond not being able to express emotions.  I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend/cousin.  But as a woman, of course you're going to be elated that a man opened up with you emotionally.  By nature, you want to nurture him and help him.  But if he relied on you for the affirmation that he was a good husband, than saying that's a sign of strength is a bit of a stretch.  That sounds like a lot of self doubt and regret.  These are obviously extreme examples, but you see microcosms on these boards all of the time.  Fragile or effeminate men without a lick of common sense with girlfriends that think they can nurture and fix these guys. Then, they end up posting on here asking advice for where it all went wrong.  It's becoming apparent that I'm not very popular on these boards, but my simple point is that a guy who purely acts on selfish emotions and not basic logic or reasoning can't be a good and loving husband/boyfriend.  If girls want someone to cry with instead of cry to, then you need more girlfriends.  

 

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