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Feeling Conflicted About Next Steps in Relationship


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P.S. I think if you stay with him, you will pretty soon find out that people actually don't change. I wanted two years each on two ex's who showed me exactly who they are pretty early on, but I just chose to ignore all the red flags because I was in love with them and like you hoped they would change. They didn't, hence why they are ex's. Your boyfriend is a 32-year-old man and after two years you've seen no change. No job, no marriage proposal. There's nothing actually stopping him but he just doesn't want these things. He actually told you this himself. He said he wasn't sure about your relationship and he wasn't going to propose. I think you have all the answers already.

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This is a tough pill to swallow. but... you've effectively excused away all his bad behaviors with a simple "we aren't married yet why do I care now".

You care now because the marriage, the actual act is a ceremony. Fundamentally you are the same, he is the same, the relationship is the same before and after. 

If you want marriage, you have to date guys that want marriage. 

This guy told you & showed you, he is not down for the plan.

You think you put some line in the sand about how you have your own plan, puppy and not to expect anything until some future due date.

To a mooch, a player or someone not interested in marriage. a three stint sounds great. 

He let down his end of the bargain.

Why are you not out the door? 

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20 hours ago, LaHermes said:

I utterly fail to see what the location has to do with proposing.  And you don't tell someone you are GOING to propose to them in xyz location.  You either propose or you don't. 

Sure but it's not the same proposing in Santorini during the sunset and somewhere mundane. 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Ha, have a former friend like that. Has a sad story behind(mother and father died day by day from each other), he is on pills and selfmedicates and is mostly unable to work but works some part time jobs from time to time and writes over internet. Mooches for drinks at the bar and everything else every chance he gets. Last time I borrowed him money was few years ago and didnt heard from him since except occasionaly seeing him in town. 

Anyhow, OPs case is like one of my other friends. Does something in life but lives way over his head so relies on parents and even friends when he needs it. Then pays it back, then when he gets some money he spends it then needs to borrow again when he needs it for stuff like bills and repairs around home. I call those cases "very bad with money". For example OPs case doesnt relly on OP to pay him bills and I am sure he would buy her that ring. Its just that he would never save enough for it. And instead of working harder for it and earning it, he rellies on pure luck(which is cryptotrading today, he might as well be gambler) to get that. This one is just irresponsible with money. Hence why he wants to live abroad probably somewhere where small money he earns will be enough for rent and living(like Greece lol). And like that really not a good candidate for financially independant OP who can afford what she wants now and works hard for it. At least when we are talking financially.

Yes, I think this is really on point. I don't see him as a moocher and he definitely did not get into this relationship to mooch off of me since I quit my job and have had little to no income of my own our entire relationship. I pay my bills using student loans right now, any extra income I have earned clerking has been marginal at best. BUT he does definitely want to live somewhere where his money would enable him to live like a wealthy person (like Greece for sure). 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live abroad part of the year, but I wouldn't do it unless I had the wherewithal to do so. My boyfriend is definitely more accustomed to living a certain lifestyle and he has never really had to work for it. I grew up poor, so obviously I didn't grow up with this expectation. I don't think there's anything wrong with him, really. If I grew up that way, I'd probably think very similarly to him. There is part of me that wonders why it is that I want to be married so badly in the first place or if I'm shallow. A lot of my friends are in long-term relationships with their boyfriends who do not propose and even have children with them in some cases. I don't know if I'm just desiring things that really make no difference? 

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23 minutes ago, dias said:

Sure but it's not the same proposing in Santorini during the sunset and somewhere mundane. 

 

 

Yes LOL I mean I wouldn't care where he proposed if he proposed, but this trip came at a specific time. When we first got together we said we'd get married after I was done with law school if we were still together. We are still together, I am graduating in December & taking the Bar in February. The trip was just last month, so it would have been the right time to propose if we planned to be married after I graduate. Plus, this trip was important for me because I studied ancient Greece in college. So, there was a lot of expectation there, and he basically told me not to expect anything before we went. This was also MY first trip abroad and OUR first trip abroad together. So, kind of disappointing. 

Edited by moodindigo91
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25 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

If I grew up that way, I'd probably think very similarly to him. There is part of me that wonders why it is that I want to be married so badly in the first place

What I can see from your posts, Brie, is how desperately confused you are.  Otherwise you wouldn't utter remarks like these! No you would NOT think similarly to him even if you were brought up wealthy. I know of many people from wealthy families who do not sponge of their parents, who work hard and made their way in the world on their OWN merit. Of course there is something wrong with him. He is a free-loader, drifting through life, aimless and basically useless.  Sponging off his father!

So, what you are actually saying is that you'd marry just about anyone (including this individual) just to be married! 

Tinydance has laid it out PLAIN for you:

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

No job, no marriage proposal. There's nothing actually stopping him but he just doesn't want these things. He actually told you this himself. He said he wasn't sure about your relationship and he wasn't going to propose. I think you have all the answers already.

Try not to deceive yourself, Brie.  Get help to find out why you would settle for just anything. Dignity and self-respect are the most  valuable asset you will ever have. 

And btw, what's to stop you living and working abroad yourself, on your own, if you feel that you would like that. 

You are educated. Pick a country, go there and get as much experience of life as you can. 

Edited by LaHermes
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You're so focused on the act- getting married- that you're missing the whole picture. It's like some kind of item to tick off your checklist. Newsflash: You don't want to marry the wrong person. Coming from a poor or wealthy background does not justify both of your actions.

Again; He is not the one for you. You guys have different goals and it's okay. Would you please put the marriage thing on the side, and look at the bigger picture? The practicalities? The long term couple's happiness? The everyday life? The finances? You don't even seem to truly think about this relationship and how to nurture it. You two have taken each other for granted, it seems.

Anyways, he's halfway out of the door. It doesn't matter now. The longer you stay, the longer you'll be missing out on meeting a better partner who shares your values.

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17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

What's more important to you...being proposed to or actually marrying the right person?

Such an important question Bolt.  It is important that you clarify and get your mind on top of the evident confusion you are experiencing Brie.

And what has this to do with anything, OP?!  Do not compare yourself to anyone. That is their life and if that's how they want it so be it. 

55 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

A lot of my friends are in long-term relationships with their boyfriends who do not propose and even have children with them in some cases.

Believe me, OP, when it is the right man it matters not a whit WHERE he proposes, even if it is in a car park!

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23 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

There is part of me that wonders why it is that I want to be married so badly in the first place or if I'm shallow. A lot of my friends are in long-term relationships with their boyfriends who do not propose and even have children with them in some cases. I don't know if I'm just desiring things that really make no difference? 

It makes the difference to you. You actually want to get married, want that dream proposal in Greece and everything. Some people dont want to get married, others like your boyfriend "put it up for another time" from one reason or another. But you know what you want. And I dont think that you should give up on that.

However, its more important to find the right person to do it. Guy who is that irresponsible with money is not that. I mentioned my friend, he is so bad with money that if he would get million dollars tomorrow he would spend it for a month and still borrow money from someone later. That kind of people will always be like that. Adding to that, your visions of future are diametraly different. You want to get that bar and practice law there(I assume). He wants to gamble on crypto and live abroad. Additionally, if he knew how much that trip meant, yes, he should have bought that ring. Even if he had to borrow money for it. So, I dont think he is the right person for that job. And that is far more important then just act of getting married.

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Look, I know how you feel because I've been there. As I mentioned in my comment, I wasted 1.5 years on one ex in my late 20's who refused to work or do anything and lied about it and came up with all sorts of excuses. Then I was single for 2.5 years in my early 30's and met someone else and wasted two years on him. He told me from the start he had anger issues and mental health issues, but I loved him and saw some other really good qualities in him. I thought that my ex's would change if I just gave enough encouragement or I could adapt to their behaviours. I couldn't because I don't want someone who's now 35 and never worked (not for any good reason) or someone with severe mental health issues who actually became a drug addict to these issues as well.

I wasted 3.5 years collectively on these people and they DIDN'T change. Now I'm 36, 37 years old in January and I'm single and alone. I also really want marriage and kids but I wasted my time on the wrong people and now I got to this age and I don't have anyone. What I'm trying to say to you is whatever you see of this person now is exactly who they are.

Firstly it doesn't actually seem like you paid much at attention to what your boyfriend directly said to you. 

"he told me he WAS going to propose to me during our trip to Greece but probably not anymore & that he didn't have any money to buy a ring regardless (LOL).... "He did not propose."......"I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires. He knows for sure they're among mine. I also want to make sure he has some kind of stable income or at least a path toward one before we get married and start a family." "I don't mind being the breadwinner, but we live in an expensive state and we definitely need dual income." 

You actually wrote all these things yourself. So this is the situation but I think you're just not willing to accept it and you're making a lot of excuses for your boyfriend. You said there's nothing wrong with him. Just in my opinion, there is. He's 32 but he has no interest in any kind of ambition or providing for himself financially. He seems to always be taking the easy way out because maybe he's too passive, lazy or just feels entitled to be given things because he grew up in a rich family.

E.g. His friend started this business and he started working there. That was an easy option for him because he didn't have to look for any jobs himself. That's great he worked hard at that business but unfortunately the business isn't making any money. If he actually had any ambition he would realise that this business is not an option (at least right now). And he would be looking for another job. He knows you're sitting the bar in February so you're very close to starting your law career, yet he doesn't care about even having any job that actually pays money.

All the 2+ years your boyfriend has been financially supported by his father. Then he even said that you should move in with one of his parents to "save money". Meaning what? That he wouldn't pay rent and bills and instead spend the money on himself? He's acting like a child. 

Also you're ignoring the fact that he said he wasn't going to propose to you in Greece. You've been together for 2+ years so why? You've lived together for 1+ years. If he truly loves you and sees a future with you, what is the problem? Proposing doesn't have to be about an expensive ring. The ring can be cheap. Or he could save up somehow though I don't know how since he has no income. I think he is showing you who he is in all of this, bit you've got rose coloured glasses on and you're just not seeing it.

The problem is you can't actually change a person into who or what you want them to be. This person is exactly who they are. Your only choice is either to accept them just as they are, or end the relationship. Them magically becoming different is pretty much not an option. I really learnt that the hard way.

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On 9/20/2021 at 6:46 PM, LaHermes said:

I utterly fail to see what the location has to do with proposing.  And you don't tell someone you are GOING to propose to them in xyz location.  You either propose or you don't. 

He seems not quite right in the head or else is stunted at age 14. What attraction could such a being hold for ANY WOMAN, I ask. 

Even better, he said he WAS going to propose but "probably not anymore."   I mean, really, who tells their girlfriend that?

He sounds just awesome. 😐 

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3 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Look, I know how you feel because I've been there. As I mentioned in my comment, I wasted 1.5 years on one ex in my late 20's who refused to work or do anything and lied about it and came up with all sorts of excuses. Then I was single for 2.5 years in my early 30's and met someone else and wasted two years on him. He told me from the start he had anger issues and mental health issues, but I loved him and saw some other really good qualities in him. I thought that my ex's would change if I just gave enough encouragement or I could adapt to their behaviours. I couldn't because I don't want someone who's now 35 and never worked (not for any good reason) or someone with severe mental health issues who actually became a drug addict to these issues as well.

I wasted 3.5 years collectively on these people and they DIDN'T change. Now I'm 36, 37 years old in January and I'm single and alone. I also really want marriage and kids but I wasted my time on the wrong people and now I got to this age and I don't have anyone. What I'm trying to say to you is whatever you see of this person now is exactly who they are.

Firstly it doesn't actually seem like you paid much at attention to what your boyfriend directly said to you. 

"he told me he WAS going to propose to me during our trip to Greece but probably not anymore & that he didn't have any money to buy a ring regardless (LOL).... "He did not propose."......"I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires. He knows for sure they're among mine. I also want to make sure he has some kind of stable income or at least a path toward one before we get married and start a family." "I don't mind being the breadwinner, but we live in an expensive state and we definitely need dual income." 

You actually wrote all these things yourself. So this is the situation but I think you're just not willing to accept it and you're making a lot of excuses for your boyfriend. You said there's nothing wrong with him. Just in my opinion, there is. He's 32 but he has no interest in any kind of ambition or providing for himself financially. He seems to always be taking the easy way out because maybe he's too passive, lazy or just feels entitled to be given things because he grew up in a rich family.

E.g. His friend started this business and he started working there. That was an easy option for him because he didn't have to look for any jobs himself. That's great he worked hard at that business but unfortunately the business isn't making any money. If he actually had any ambition he would realise that this business is not an option (at least right now). And he would be looking for another job. He knows you're sitting the bar in February so you're very close to starting your law career, yet he doesn't care about even having any job that actually pays money.

All the 2+ years your boyfriend has been financially supported by his father. Then he even said that you should move in with one of his parents to "save money". Meaning what? That he wouldn't pay rent and bills and instead spend the money on himself? He's acting like a child. 

Also you're ignoring the fact that he said he wasn't going to propose to you in Greece. You've been together for 2+ years so why? You've lived together for 1+ years. If he truly loves you and sees a future with you, what is the problem? Proposing doesn't have to be about an expensive ring. The ring can be cheap. Or he could save up somehow though I don't know how since he has no income. I think he is showing you who he is in all of this, bit you've got rose coloured glasses on and you're just not seeing it.

The problem is you can't actually change a person into who or what you want them to be. This person is exactly who they are. Your only choice is either to accept them just as they are, or end the relationship. Them magically becoming different is pretty much not an option. I really learnt that the hard way.

Haha yeah I think you're right probably. He's helped me a lot throughout school. But that doesn't make him marriage material. When we first got together, he seemed like he wanted to be married. Now, it doesn't feel that way to me. I generally do enjoy my life with him. But, I do realize that our futures don't seem to align anymore. I think they did at first. Or at least he had me thinking they did. Maybe he thought they did! It has only been the last couple of years that I decided I wanted marriage and children. I think I have considered giving up on it to be content but it does keep me up at night. He literally told me he would not propose to me on a big trip and then he didn't, idk why I think he'll propose any time in the future. Especially when it's clear he'd rather buy himself ***. It's just frustrating. I invested time and energy into this and it really took a lot of my energy to contribute to this relationship in addition to law school and my dog, not to mention the death of a friend and my mother having cancer. It has been rough. So idk. I feel frustrated that's all lol 

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30 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

Haha yeah I think you're right probably. He's helped me a lot throughout school. But that doesn't make him marriage material. When we first got together, he seemed like he wanted to be married. Now, it doesn't feel that way to me. I generally do enjoy my life with him. But, I do realize that our futures don't seem to align anymore. I think they did at first. Or at least he had me thinking they did. Maybe he thought they did! It has only been the last couple of years that I decided I wanted marriage and children. I think I have considered giving up on it to be content but it does keep me up at night. He literally told me he would not propose to me on a big trip and then he didn't, idk why I think he'll propose any time in the future. Especially when it's clear he'd rather buy himself ***. It's just frustrating. I invested time and energy into this and it really took a lot of my energy to contribute to this relationship in addition to law school and my dog, not to mention the death of a friend and my mother having cancer. It has been rough. So idk. I feel frustrated that's all lol 

Have you talked to him about all this? Have you actually directly asked him for a straight answer if he wants to marry you? He knows you want to get married but what had he actually said about this subject? Also have you asked him his plans regarding working and earning money? For the past two years he hasn't been earning any money. Does he plan to stay like that? As you said, you've invested 2+ years into this relationship but you don't seem to know where he's at with any of this? Understandably you're in your 30's now and you want a future with someone. So I think you deserve to know these things.

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On 9/20/2021 at 12:11 PM, moodindigo91 said:

I feel, on the one hand, upset that I am not getting proposed to, and don't feel like he will propose to me. I feel, on the other hand, that maybe we want different things out of life. I'm unsure at this point whether marriage and children are among his desires. He knows for sure they're among mine. I also want to make sure he has some kind of stable income or at least a path toward one before we get married and start a family. I don't mind being the breadwinner, but we live in an expensive state and we definitely need dual income. I would feel guilty if we got married and started a family while his dad was footing all of his bills. I also hate feeling dependent on others financially. 

I want to discuss all this, and we have discussed this in bits and pieces, but he never really provides straight answers or voices his opinions except that he knows he needs to figure out his career, that he wants to do something in bitcoin, and that he wants to travel and/or live abroad. I'm not really sure what to do or how to move forward, but I feel kind of stuck. My plan is to not really deal with this until I am done with the Bar exam but I was just hoping I could get some outside opinions or guidance! 

Here we have by clear and convincing evidence a combination of (1) your valid worries and doubts (in boldface), and (2) a lack of proactive, serious communication of these worries and doubts to your partner (in boldface and underlined). Because of the former, you have sincere, substantial doubts about the relationship's potential success. Because of the latter, he is not on notice that the relationship's foundations may be crumbling if he takes no action. 

Your reasons to doubt the relationship are valid, but it is only fair to both of you that you communicate them in their entirety. After all, why would he make haste to act if he does not know this is really, seriously bothering you. Sit down with him and tell him (1) you are worried he may never want to get married, (2) you are worried he may not want to have kids, and (3) you are upset he does not seem to be taking proactive steps toward finding a career. (Unless he has an actual job in mind, cryptocurrency manipulation is not a career). Observe what he says and does during the conversation and afterward. I am confident you will have a better idea where you stand with him after you do so.

This matter is vacated and remanded to OP for actions consistent with this opinion. It is so ordered.

(Law school nerds unite! :D) 

Edited by Pleasedonot5
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On 9/20/2021 at 1:58 PM, moodindigo91 said:

So how is it that I'm supposed to find a good man if they all seem to pretend to be something other than what they are! 

Your definition of 'all' is limited to those you've failed to screen out before involving yourself.

Your picker is off.

Fix THAT, and you'll feel fine holding out for the RIGHT match.

Meanwhile, pop your fantasies about current guy ever stepping up. He's not going to become the partner you envision for yourself, but you don't really need us to tell you this.

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Sorry this is happening. You seem incompatible and your values and goals are not aligned.

You seem to want a staid profession, and more traditional proposal, marriage, family, etc.

It's pretty clear he's a dreamer and wants a bon vivant lifestyle with dad's money.

In the future, you'll be the next workhorse and wallet. That's why he keeps you around.

He's committed to hedonism, not you.

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9 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

It's just frustrating. I invested time and energy into this and it really took a lot of my energy to contribute to this relationship in addition to law school and my dog, not to mention the death of a friend and my mother having cancer. It has been rough. So idk. I feel frustrated that's all lol 

It's far more than frustrating Brie. It's destructive.  Why do you want to continue with this unstable individual?  I fail to see where any discussion with him would get you. Simply more waste of time. It isn't about marrying or not marrying. Why, on earth, would you even want to marry this individual.  

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10 hours ago, moodindigo91 said:

I invested time and energy into this and it really took a lot of my energy to contribute to this relationship in addition to law school and my dog, not to mention the death of a friend and my mother having cancer. It has been rough. So idk. I feel frustrated that's all lol 

Yes that's a lot on your plate!  If I thought he wanted to marry you but for some reason there was miscommunication about the "proposal" I'd advise you to propose.  He doesn't want to marry you and he knows you two want different things -I wouldn't even say it's two extremes -but different enough to be dealbreakers. I agree with the others -you'll waste more time and a ton more $$ if you stick around -including potential expenses trying to have a baby later in life (I didn't have to -many of my friends did plus lots and lots of invasive procedures).  

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If this guy had an ounce of self-respect, he would have never let a puppy get in the way of a relationship in the first place.  Fortunately, for you this total waste of a human being was still interested in you.  Fortunately for him, you may even have less self-respect than he does.  What could you possibly see in this assclown that would make you even consider spending the rest of your life with him?  It's your duty to this planet to not help this guy reproduce.    

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15 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

If this guy had an ounce of self-respect, he would have never let a puppy get in the way of a relationship in the first place.  Fortunately, for you this total waste of a human being was still interested in you.  Fortunately for him, you may even have less self-respect than he does.  What could you possibly see in this assclown that would make you even consider spending the rest of your life with him?  It's your duty to this planet to not help this guy reproduce.    

Wow that's so harsh. I'm glad I'm not the OP 😱

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On 9/20/2021 at 5:11 PM, moodindigo91 said:

I also hate feeling dependent on others financially. 

And that is a very healthy outlook OP.

Yet here you are (still) contemplating a life with an individual who has absolutely no problem whatsoever with depending financially on his father, or to be more accurate sponging off his Dad.  And sponging off you as and when that occasion arises. 

You have objectives in life.  He doesn't.  He'll drift through life, aimless, maybe even drift abroad, provided Dad forks out enough for him to travel abroad and live there. 

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13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Have you talked to him about all this? Have you actually directly asked him for a straight answer if he wants to marry you? He knows you want to get married but what had he actually said about this subject? Also have you asked him his plans regarding working and earning money? For the past two years he hasn't been earning any money. Does he plan to stay like that? As you said, you've invested 2+ years into this relationship but you don't seem to know where he's at with any of this? Understandably you're in your 30's now and you want a future with someone. So I think you deserve to know these things.

Yes. I haven't asked him directly if he still wants marriage yet, but I did ask him and continually ask him how he plans to make money and what he wants to do with his life. His focus is on crypto trading right now. I was going to ask about marriage after I finished school and took the Bar. I do agree that I feel like I deserve to know these things.

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