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Made an enormous life altering mistake


Atlguy
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14 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I guess the thing is that you must have known this relationship was kind of transactional on some level. You could be OK with it if you accept that it is. If you're not OK with it and you want a woman to actually love you for you, then you may need to date American women. Unfortunately a woman who finds you online from another country would have coming to the US as her number one reason. If it wasn't then she'd look for a man in her own country.

That sums it up Tiny. Exactly.

And yes, OP, I recall this:

" I haven't been treated well since living where I do and the pool is small here.  I couldn't meet quality here.  At 52 and still wanting a family, I'm out of options, basically.  I do regret not pursuing someone in Latin America or Mexico, as I relate to Latin culture so much better.  If I start over again (I can't imagine after the frustrating year and a half of waiting), I will look for a Latin woman.  Dating where I live isn't an option.  I'm trying to move back to Atlanta, but thats not working.  I fear I will be alone indefinitely."

I just don't know what to say. 

But you said it yourself Made an enormous life altering mistake

Edited by LaHermes
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14 hours ago, poorlittlefish said:

If you're in the UK you won't get an annulment.  Here, pre-nups are not legally binding but they carry influence.  I'm guessing you didn't get one?  I'm guessing you didn't safeguard your home and finances?

I did get a prenup, so all set there.

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"An annulment of marriage is a legal decree that a marriage is null and void. Annulments are granted when a court makes a finding a marriage is invalid. While a divorce ends a legally valid marriage, an annulment treats the marriage as if it never existed"

 

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Leaving aside the legal intricacies of the present situation, and the outcome, perhaps it is now important to look again at these issues:

"Its a disaster of a life basically for the last 18 years Why not add one more disaster to it? I'm being sarcastic, but it wouldn't surprise me if this blew up in my face.  I can't win, basically.  Either my personal life or my professional life (or both) have sucked since around 2003, so what the hell? How can I even be optimistic anymore? Its hard to be, but I try.  I've tried to have faith in this relationship, but it has faded with distance and time (hence me starting this thread) and just my own history of bad decisions (only in hindsight that is), so if it all blows up I wouldn't be shocked.  Basically I have zero confidence in my decisions despite giving them careful consideration.  Something always goes wrong. "

Once the present fiasco has been sorted out, OP, maybe it would be good to analyze why exactly your life is as you describe it.  To have confidence in a decision, any decision, requires careful analysis, and consultation with others.

Outsiders are able to give a more objective opinion, and advice, on a particular situation.  They can clearly see what we are often blind to, involuntarily or voluntarily. 

Anyhow, once this is over, what is the next step, OP?  Maybe take time to yourself, go somewhere else for a while, even write out the experience. 

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On 8/20/2021 at 7:05 PM, Tinydance said:

Well I think it's OK to have the arrangement you have if you understand it is what it is and you're fine with it. I'm originally from Eastern Europe myself but I came to Australia as a child. My parents and I knew some Eastern European women and some were "mail order brides" as you call them. We knew one who was only in her late 20's or early 30's but she was dating a man in his 60's because she wanted to get married to an Australian to stay in Australia. Surely the man knew this and that she was basically using him, but the pay off was that he had a pretty young woman on his arm. There are men and women who are fine with these kinds of arrangements because they both get something out of it. Sometimes they even stay with the same person and have kids and so on because they feel comfortable with each other and they decide to "settle".

Unfortunately I think when women are deliberately looking for a foreign man online, they usually do have an agenda and that is to leave their own country. She might "like" you in the sense that you're a decent man and you can take care of her and her son. But it would be surprising to be honest if she actually truly loved you, as basically your whole relationship was online. Your real life relationship has only just started and you can see now what it really is.

The problem is that yes she obviously did expect you to financially support her and her son at least for a while. As she wasn't going to be allowed to work initially. You said there's a language barrier so with her English not being good I'm not sure that she'd be able to get a job that pays very much. She would probably have to do some kind of work that doesn't require a lot of English, like a cleaner or shop assistant of some kind. Also you do need to financially support her son too because he's her child and he's not going anywhere.

Some women might be of the mindset that they left their country and all their friends and family behind to be with you, so they expect you to take care of them. 

I guess the thing is that you must have known this relationship was kind of transactional on some level. You could be OK with it if you accept that it is. If you're not OK with it and you want a woman to actually love you for you, then you may need to date American women. Unfortunately a woman who finds you online from another country would have coming to the US as her number one reason. If it wasn't then she'd look for a man in her own country.

She's highly educated (PHD Finance), so she can get a job.  The improvements in her English would be proper grammar.  It's not broken English, just some adjustments to be made.  

She says she loves me.  She usually says it first, so I have to take her at her word on that.  

No, I didn't think it was transactional and I really don't think that is or was her intention, but the financial stress on me has been huge.  That's without her going crazy with spending (she hasn't).  It's lawyers fees and Adjustment of Status so she can work, mostly.  Then there's been tons of inflation and unexpected home repairs come up.  It's been all at once.  Not her fault.  But damn, we need 2 incomes!!!

But yeah, I settled because I couldn't meet a legit American woman where I live.  I relate better to Latin culture, but I wanted an educated woman (not that Latinas aren't, but the ones I was meeting weren't), so this is what I chose.  We have common values, but she's just not as family oriented as I would like.  The cultural differences are a much bigger challenge than I could have imagined.

I settled.  We're in a better place today, but who knows how long it lasts.

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1 hour ago, Atlguy said:

The cultural differences are a much bigger challenge than I could have imagined.

I bet they are OP! 

The U.S.A. is such a vast country, that it is just hard to imagine that you would not be able to meet an American woman (not necessarily in your immediate surroundings, city/town or whatever.)  Or for that matter a Latina (again not where you are but from another part of the country. It is not unknown for people to meet and marry someone from the other end of their country. 

Never ever a good idea to "settle", not fair on you and not fair on the other person.  The "settled" situation will crack and come apart like an item that wasn't well made in the first place. And that may not happen today or next week, but happen it will.

 

 

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My buddy met his 2nd wife at 53, and had his first kid soon after.  She was 15 years younger, and a hottie, and not long distance.  After only two weeks of marriage, it should be still bliss, not complete anxiety and regret.  It wasn't ideal when dating. It's not ideal now married. It won't get any better a year from now.  You're just not the right ones for each other.  If you need two incomes to make it, you shouldn't have offered to marry her to come live here.  She could have saved up, and then come over.  

Talk to her about how you are feeling, and tell her the truth, that it's not working.  If she is bright as you say she is, she can make arrangements to go home.

Edited by tattoobunnie
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OP, I remember your previous threads in which you were debating whether to marry the Ukrainian lady that you got to know exclusively over the internet with very little face-to-face interaction. Many people were telling you not to marry her, but you went ahead nevertheless. Now you deal with the consequences and you should not be complaining of what you singlehandedly brought on yourself . 

The vast majority  of Russian and Ukrainian women do not merry western man for love, but for a visa and to be financially taken care of. Your case has become part of the statistics.

I'd suggest that you respectfully make the arrangements to dissolve the marriage, unless you enjoy being taken to the cleaners. Do not give your Ukrainian wife alone time with your credit cards.

I do not know the laws of your state, but I recall a poster in your previous thread, saying that even if you divorce your wife, you will still be financially liable for her and her son for a period of time, as she has no other support system in the US. And she may not want to leave the country. So, perhaps better check the rules.

And a last word: do not expect your wife to roll up her sleeves and get a job. For the Russians and Ukrainians, men make the money, women spend them. If I recall correctly, she even told you this straight to your face when you asked her, before starting the visa procedure. 

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2 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

You're just not the right ones for each other.  If you need two incomes to make it, you shouldn't have offered to marry her to come live here.  She could have saved up, and then come over.  

Have to fully agree Tattoo. 

 

5 hours ago, Atlguy said:

We're in a better place today, but who knows how long it lasts.

Don't let life drift, OP. Please don't.Drifting can take you onto the rocks.

 

 

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2 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

My buddy met his 2nd wife at 53, and had his first kid soon after.  She was 15 years younger, and a hottie, and not long distance.  After only two weeks of marriage, it should be still bliss, not complete anxiety and regret.  It wasn't ideal when dating. It's not ideal now married. It won't get any better a year from now.  You're just not the right ones for each other.  If you need two incomes to make it, you shouldn't have offered to marry her to come live here.  She could have saved up, and then come over.  

Talk to her about how you are feeling, and tell her the truth, that it's not working.  If she is bright as you say she is, she can make arrangements to go home.

I'm thinking a marriage workshop.  That could help us immensely in navigating disagreements and cultural differences. 

It's not that ordinarily we would need 2 incomes, BUT the one time expenses have piled up on top of each other.  Also, adding 2 people to my family is costing me way more than I budgeted.  We can make it, we just can't take vacations very often and travel in general.  No more dining out either.  That all may be temporary.  SHE WANTS TO WORK.  She'll be legally allowed to within 4-6 months.  When she does, she can make 6 figures, or close to it.  Then is when I find out how committed she is to carrying her weight.  As it stands, she doesn't overspend and always looks for good deals on groceries or household things.  That didn't change after "I do".  Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated, but I do think in time we can get stronger.  But wow, what an adjustment.  I struggle to connect with her and find things in common.  She's also more laid back (why wouldn't she be, no financial stress on her) about it and says she expected the first year to be hard.

Nice to know you had a friend who had his first child at 53.  That could be me, but I'm about 70/30 against it because of my age.  We will see.

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4 hours ago, LaHermes said:

I bet they are OP! 

The U.S.A. is such a vast country, that it is just hard to imagine that you would not be able to meet an American woman (not necessarily in your immediate surroundings, city/town or whatever.)  Or for that matter a Latina (again not where you are but from another part of the country. It is not unknown for people to meet and marry someone from the other end of their country. 

Never ever a good idea to "settle", not fair on you and not fair on the other person.  The "settled" situation will crack and come apart like an item that wasn't well made in the first place. And that may not happen today or next week, but happen it will.

 

 

Maybe.  Here's what I found with online dating...I live in a crappy state.  No Latin woman say Miami for example, is going to want to move here.  Nor would I move back to south Florida.  Additionally, there are many Latins in Texas, but none willing to even drive 3 hours every other weekend for a man.  I exhausted these options before going on this journey.  Trust me, I've lived in this s-hole 9 years.  I've tried it all.  I didn't settle on everything, but yes, I did on a few things.  Cultural references and humor will never really be a thing as it was for me in past relationships.  Thats hard.  Sounds small, but its a way of relating and means a lot to me.  I didn't settle on values, attractiveness (though of course that fades), honesty, commitment, or trust.  Look, I thought I married the perfect woman in 2005.  By 2009 we were divorced and she was unrecognizable.  I wanted a woman who was seriously committed to me and would love me.  Time will tell, but seems I may have found her.  But hey, tomorrow I could think differently, as it has been a rollercoaster, and I tend to not like rollercoasters.

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OP, I am not entirely familiar with the demographics of the U.S.A. (I am from Europe) but I take your word for it.  I am trying, with some difficulty, to understand why you didn't/don't then move from this s-hole as you call it.  Sure, we all can make mistakes (and I am remembering your other thread as I write) but if you tell yourself everything has and will go wrong for you it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  You have said, if I remember rightly, that everything seems to go wrong for you and that you seem unable to reach a right decision about anything. Right?

All I can say is that if someone is serious about someone, and they are in a different part of the country, they accommodate.  I can tell you that myself.  Geeze, we used to have to take a plane to meet each other, back in the day. Lol.  If you want someone badly enough believe me you will do it and then find a terrain suitable to both. 

Don't we all want someone who is seriously committed to us and love us. That's a given. Humour is a great leveller. The best.

2 hours ago, Atlguy said:

I struggle to connect with her and find things in common.

Well, if you feel you can hack it, so be it.  All know is that I couldn't. 

 

DF said this to you back in April:

"I get if you live in a small town with few options, but if you can move, then work on that and do it and step away from "it will never happen for me". Trust that it will, but do make your choices wisely and never out of fear."

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3 hours ago, Atlguy said:

I'm thinking a marriage workshop.  That could help us immensely in navigating disagreements and cultural differences. 

It's not that ordinarily we would need 2 incomes, BUT the one time expenses have piled up on top of each other.  Also, adding 2 people to my family is costing me way more than I budgeted.  We can make it, we just can't take vacations very often and travel in general.  No more dining out either.  That all may be temporary.  SHE WANTS TO WORK.  She'll be legally allowed to within 4-6 months.  When she does, she can make 6 figures, or close to it.  Then is when I find out how committed she is to carrying her weight.  As it stands, she doesn't overspend and always looks for good deals on groceries or household things.  That didn't change after "I do".  Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated, but I do think in time we can get stronger.  But wow, what an adjustment.  I struggle to connect with her and find things in common.  She's also more laid back (why wouldn't she be, no financial stress on her) about it and says she expected the first year to be hard.

Nice to know you had a friend who had his first child at 53.  That could be me, but I'm about 70/30 against it because of my age.  We will see.

Well I'm really not trying to be rude here but in all fairness you did know that she has a son and that also she's actually legally not allowed to work for a number of months. You knew all this already so I don't think you can exactly blame her that she's using you for money or what not. She simply doesn't have any means to be able to work and support her and her son right now. You say she's an attractive woman and she's also a lot younger than you. You found her online and she's a "mail order bride". I'm sorry but seems to me you have an arrangement here. You're a man in your 50's, you couldn't find anyone for a long time, so you "mail ordered" an attractive younger woman. Now you're complaining you have to financially support her. Most mail order brides are actually poor and what they have is they are beautiful and they do have the expectation that the man will financially support them. That's their reason to marry a foreign man, to move to a better country and be taken care of.

Also you mentioned before that you didn't end up having kids and things like that and you wanted to have a family. Now you don't actually seem happy that this woman has a son and you need to pay for things for him. I mean, you chose this woman yourself and it doesn't seem like she actually lied about anything and you knew she had a son from the start. Of course she has at least some agenda. If she didn't she'd be staying in the Ukraine.

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15 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well I'm really not trying to be rude here but in all fairness you did know that she has a son and that also she's actually legally not allowed to work for a number of months. You knew all this already so I don't think you can exactly blame her that she's using you for money or what not. She simply doesn't have any means to be able to work and support her and her son right now. You say she's an attractive woman and she's also a lot younger than you. You found her online and she's a "mail order bride". I'm sorry but seems to me you have an arrangement here. You're a man in your 50's, you couldn't find anyone for a long time, so you "mail ordered" an attractive younger woman. Now you're complaining you have to financially support her. Most mail order brides are actually poor and what they have is they are beautiful and they do have the expectation that the man will financially support them. That's their reason to marry a foreign man, to move to a better country and be taken care of.

Also you mentioned before that you didn't end up having kids and things like that and you wanted to have a family. Now you don't actually seem happy that this woman has a son and you need to pay for things for him. I mean, you chose this woman yourself and it doesn't seem like she actually lied about anything and you knew she had a son from the start. Of course she has at least some agenda. If she didn't she'd be staying in the Ukraine.

Very offensive comments, but what can I expect? Mail order bride she is not.  Far from it.  Carry on with your judgment though...

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14 hours ago, abitbroken said:

You are talking about all the expenses of fixing your place up and the lawyers and so forth as the main problems here.  Some of that should have been anticipated.  You don't speak of what is actually a problem with her as an individual. She has a PhD - so she could get a job when she is able to. Mixing up a little grammar for a non-native speaker is not a barrier to working. She could also when the time comes get a remote job as an interpreter for hospitals, etc.  She is not spending money like its printed on trees.  She tells you she loves you - she very well might love you. 

If you don't have things in common - what brought you together in the first place. What did you talk about that sparked an interest?  There had to be something.  Go back to that.  And try new things. Pretend you are both new in town. Try something you both have never done before.  Because why not?  There has got to be something your stepson would like to get involved in. 

There are people that have married people in an arranged marriage that they know even less about and they are deeply devoted and in love because they chose to get to know eachother and fall in love. 

So you have a choice - send her back or now that she is here, actually make an effort.  I have a feeling if you divorce her and start over, you will be in the same place with second guessing yourself over other women.  And thats the thing - if a woman is local to you, she has lots of choices and if you are indecisive about how you feel about her -- she won't put up with it.

Now this is actually helpful, so thank you.  I will follow this.  You're right, about 50% of the expenses were anticipated.  The rest is stressing me out.  It is what it is.  Next year when she starts working, I'll be able to rebuild and we won't be on such a tight budget.  We're both finance people, so we know how to budget, but also how to not be overly cheap to the point of depriving ourselves joy.  So we do have that in common.

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15 hours ago, abitbroken said:

And thats the thing - if a woman is local to you, she has lots of choices and if you are indecisive about how you feel about her -- she won't put up with it.

There we have it, Abit. 

 

15 hours ago, abitbroken said:

If you don't have things in common - what brought you together in the first place. What did you talk about that sparked an interest?  There had to be something. 

A few months ago you said:

"I didn't hire a service for this.  I also did a lot of research to not be suckered.  I wasn't suckered at all, just chose wrong evidently."

And in your own op only last Friday you said, among other things:

"now it is painfully obvious she's not here for me, but to give herself and son a better life.  I mean, I knew that would maybe be a part of her motivation, but thought I was the main reason for her moving here and giving up her rather decent life in Ukraine.  Her actions say otherwise. "

You see, Atlguy, we can only go by what you tell us here, the written word up on a screen. I don't think anyone is being either judgmental or offensive. 

Edited by LaHermes
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34 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

Very offensive comments, but what can I expect? Mail order bride she is not.  Far from it.  Carry on with your judgment though...

I'm sorry if I offended you but I think unfortunately according to the Wikipedia article you could technically refer to your wife as a mail order bride. This is the definition from Wikipedia:

"A mail-order bride is a woman who lists herself in catalogs and is selected by a man for marriage. In the twentieth century, the trend was primarily towards women living in developing countries seeking men in more developed nations. In the twenty-first century, the trend is now based primarily on internet-based meeting places which do not per se qualify as mail-order bride services.[citation needed] The majority of the women listed in the twentieth-century and twenty-first-century services are from Southeast Asia, countries of the former Eastern Bloc and (to a lesser extent) from Latin America.[1] Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, large numbers of eastern European women have advertised themselves in such a way, primarily from Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, and Moldova. Men who list themselves in such publications are referred to as "mail-order husbands", although this is much less common.

The term "mail-order bride" is both criticized by owners (and customers) of international marriage agencies and used by them as an easily recognizable term.[2]"

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So much fuss over money and stability, IMO it will iron itself out without all the intense worry...how about relax, be romantic, and just be happy with each other.

Remember she's in a foreign country, no family support, language barriers, she's scared and a little nervous with her new surroundings.

Edited by smackie9
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Do you tend to catastrophize? A few days ago marrying her was an "enormous life altering mistake" (your title) and you were going to look into an annulment and today things are fine and you just need to make a few financial adjustments.

Do you tend to think the way things are right this minute are the way they'll be forever? If you work in finance you should know that's not how things work. The market may be down 145 points today and be up 150 points next week. If you panic and pull all your money out because of one bad market day you shouldn't invest in the stock market...right?

Can you reel that in? If not, you and she are in for a very rocky and unstable few months of marriage before one of you gets fed up and pulls the plug.

Edited by boltnrun
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23 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Do you tend to catastrophize? A few days ago marrying her was an "enormous life altering mistake" (your title) and you were going to look into an annulment and today things are fine and you just need to make a few financial adjustments.

I was wondering about this, too. 

You have flip-flopped in a few short days here on this thread. What has changed between then and now that leads you to believe your initial concern (that she isn't there for you) is no longer a problem?

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2 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

I was wondering about this, too. 

You have flip-flopped in a few short days here on this thread. What has changed between then and now that leads you to believe your initial concern (that she isn't there for you) is no longer a problem?

 

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Do you tend to catastrophize? A few days ago marrying her was an "enormous life altering mistake" (your title) and you were going to look into an annulment and today things are fine and you just need to make a few financial adjustments.

Do you tend to think the way things are right this minute are the way they'll be forever? If you work in finance you should know that's not how things work. The market may be down 145 points today and be up 150 points next week. If you panic and pull all your money out because of one bad market day you shouldn't invest in the stock market...right?

Can you reel that in? If not, you and she are in for a very rocky and unstable few months of marriage before one of you gets fed up and pulls the plug.

Yes, I do tend to do that.  We talked it out Friday night (argued) and resolved some things.  Sure I still have questions.  I think what scares me as much as marrying someone who doesn't love me (not that she doesn't) is all the financial risk is on me.  And yes, I knew it was, but when the rubber meets the road, it gets real.  I'm not saying annulment is off the table, but it is tabled for now.  I know it will be tough until she starts working.  Hard for me to relax about money given family history and other reasons I won't get into here.  

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2 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

I think what scares me as much as marrying someone who doesn't love me (not that she doesn't) is all the financial risk is on me.  And yes, I knew it was, but when the rubber meets the road, it gets real.  I'm not saying annulment is off the table, but it is tabled for now.  I know it will be tough until she starts working.  Hard for me to relax about money given family history and other reasons I won't get into here.  

Truth to tell, OP, I'd be scared too. In any case I could never have done what you did.

But I honestly do commiserate with you too. Speaking of money I think you did remark elsewhere that your ex-wife stole from you (or was it your family). 

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