Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me

[bbogdanov]

32 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Well, then you have to presume you're not exclusive if you've never said so.  Beware of the pitfall of assuming you're exclusive.  A man I was dating cited the fact that we'd never agreed to be exclusive when he attempted to date another woman right in front of me.

Classic deflection.  Combined with the lying, I too would have cause for concern.

Be prepared in case she becomes defensive or deflects.  No one likes that kind of "talk", but will she reassure you?  Or once again accuse you of "not trusting" her?  If it were me and she accused me of not trusting her I would then ask why she chose to lie to me.  Because if it was just a friend calling, why lie about who it was?

I get it's disappointing, but better to find out if you two are not compatible now rather than months or years down the road.  But again, it's another reason to not overinvest in one woman so early on.  I get you don't want to multi-date, but then it's important to not allow yourself to believe you're in an exclusive relationship before you actually are.

I hope it does end up going the way you hoped.  But let me caution you to not accuse or get overly emotional.  And do NOT have this conversation over text!  This needs to be in person or a phone call at the very least.

You’re totally right. I am just assuming that we are exclusive. Just a feeling and maybe a little bit of me being naive and believer. She seems totally hooked, especially lately.

Deflection is the right word! I think it is the most probable thing to do, psychologically. When a person is confronted with the harsh truth, he tends to find a way out by turning the tables and accusing you of another wrongdoing. I am not mad at her because of that, though. I like reading self-help and psychology books and some of those behaviours seem perfectly understandable (not justifiable, of course).

I am prepared for her reaction and I don’t really want to have such heavy talk especially in the beginning but I just won’t be able to continue dating her without knowing all of the information. At one of our first dates I specifically asked her about her life for those 3 years and I explained to her that I’d had a 2 year relationship which had ended but she deflected the topic.

It may be not so disappointing after all. Like you said - it better be now instead of months or years down the road. And my feelings totally changed after yesterday’s events. And BTW I had a message a week ago from another girl I’d texted a month ago and she invited me out but I politely declined because I couldn’t give her all my presence (I was falling for the first girl). Even if we were in an exclusive relationship, do you think she would cease contact with her ex? What would defining the relationship change ?

I won’t accuse her of anything. I even told her that I didn’t blame her for the first time we met 3 years ago (she told me that she was still living with her ex at our 2nd date after we’d already started escalating intimacy). I take total responsibility for events in my life and whatever happens in my relationship with this girl - I am blaming myself only.

[Batya33]

35 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

You’re totally right. I am just assuming that we are exclusive. Just a feeling and maybe a little bit of me being naive and believer. She seems totally hooked, especially lately.

Deflection is the right word! I think it is the most probable thing to do, psychologically. When a person is confronted with the harsh truth, he tends to find a way out by turning the tables and accusing you of another wrongdoing. I am not mad at her because of that, though. I like reading self-help and psychology books and some of those behaviours seem perfectly understandable (not justifiable, of course).

I am prepared for her reaction and I don’t really want to have such heavy talk especially in the beginning but I just won’t be able to continue dating her without knowing all of the information. At one of our first dates I specifically asked her about her life for those 3 years and I explained to her that I’d had a 2 year relationship which had ended but she deflected the topic.

It may be not so disappointing after all. Like you said - it better be now instead of months or years down the road. And my feelings totally changed after yesterday’s events. And BTW I had a message a week ago from another girl I’d texted a month ago and she invited me out but I politely declined because I couldn’t give her all my presence (I was falling for the first girl). Even if we were in an exclusive relationship, do you think she would cease contact with her ex? What would defining the relationship change ?

I won’t accuse her of anything. I even told her that I didn’t blame her for the first time we met 3 years ago (she told me that she was still living with her ex at our 2nd date after we’d already started escalating intimacy). I take total responsibility for events in my life and whatever happens in my relationship with this girl - I am blaming myself only.

What always defined it for me was a short conversation expressing that we were exclusive.  Very simple, because it always is when both people want that.  Being "hooked" doesn't mean that she would forego the opportunity to  date others or that she is not dating others.  I don't understand why she has to share everything about the previous 3 years. 

[bbogdanov]

40 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

What always defined it for me was a short conversation expressing that we were exclusive.  Very simple, because it always is when both people want that.  Being "hooked" doesn't mean that she would forego the opportunity to  date others or that she is not dating others.  I don't understand why she has to share everything about the previous 3 years. 

I don’t insist on defining a relationship usually. With my previous girlfriends we were dating to the point that it came naturally without a need to say explicitly “you are my bf/gf”, we just knew we are (I don’t know if that talk about the exclusivity is some cultural thing, I’ve seen it in western forums mainly). I don’t say that her being hooked guarantees me anything but even if she dates other men, I think I should be in the top 3  Joke aside, I don’t want her to share everything about her past. I want specific info about the relationship with her ex (platonic or not) because that’s what seems to interfere with my relationship with her. And I wouldn’t be interested in such topic if it were not for that late call and fishy behaviour that made me further investigate things (and discover other facts). Bear in mind that I saw her messenger chats when we were together a week or two ago (she was texting somebody in front of my eyes) and one of the top chats was with her ex (meaning she’s texted him in the last day or two). Before that I didn’t know that she’d been in contact with him and it puzzled me a little bit but I brushed it off and thought I was unnecessarily suspicious. Now I wonder if it would be appropriate for me to know if a girl has her ex in her life or not? I think some people will still find it a deal-breaker - I am again pointing out that you in the US seem to be more open-minded about things in general, including this one, but in my part of Europe the society is still mainly conservative and gender roles are mostly traditional. 

[bbogdanov]

I can’t edit my post, I wanted to add a thought that came to my mind.

I’m wondering if the problem is that she cannot detach from her ex emotionally and physically. She’s told me that she is easily influenced by events and people so I guess he’s stringing her along somehow. Maybe she needs somebody to pull her out of this situation?

At one of our dates we talked about a friend of hers that turned out to have been constantly in relationships, her words were “she hasn’t spent a single day being single”. I said that this was extremely unhealthy behaviour and branch-swinging. One should spend time alone after a breakup, process things, get used to being single again and heal, I added. She told me she could argue with me about it till the morning and according to her one can replace a relationship/person with another one (fight fire with fire). I used to go after rebounds when I was younger but now I don’t think it is OK. I wonder if there’s some connection between her mindset and the current situation…

(just mental gymnastics)

[boltnrun]

Is that what you really want to be? Just a means for her to try to get over her feelings for her ex?

Or do you want her to love you for you?

[Batya33]

I’m not necessarily open minded.  I simply value my friendships and don’t discard friends because we once dated.  Unless she has a child with her ex I don’t see why she has to share details of their relationship.  Do you want to know what sexual positions they preferred?  Because once you open the Pandora’s box it’s not fair to tell her that she can’t share about their sex life. 
I do know in Europe often exclusivity is presumed.  I multi dated because I wanted to get married.  I didn’t limit my opportunities to meet people just because I’d been dating someone a short time.  But I also didn’t have sex with people I’d recently started dating. 

[Jibralta]

I have occasionally dated guys who started out as friends. When things didn't work out for us as a couple, we went back to being friends. Even though we were in a relationship for a period of time, I wouldn't refer to them as my ex boyfriend. Yes, technically the qualify as ex-boyfriends. But for me, that wasn't the defining part of our relationship.

[bbogdanov]

8 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Is that what you really want to be? Just a means for her to try to get over her feelings for her ex?

Or do you want her to love you for you?

Of course that's not what I want to be. That's why I am now backing off and reconsidering things. I really don't feel comfortable and I don't want to drive away ghosts from the past. I've overcome the feelings for all of my exes and I am in a "clean" state so I feel it would be unfair if the other person is not in the same position.

But still, I am just imagining things. I don't know for sure what she's feeling (or not) about her ex. The only way is to have a conversation with her which, as we know, is a turn off and highly risky adventure. So I am at a dead-end:

- I can't continue dating her because I don't trust her now and I need a clear view of the facts, which I don't have at my disposal. The more time goes by, the more I am starting to view her accusation of me not trusting her as a strange thing, to say the least, I was really caught off guard and it got under my skin so I then wondered for a moment if I was wrong and untrustful, it might have been a little manipulation or so? And how can I trust a person I don't know and whom I've been on less than 10 dates with? Am I supposed to be totally vulnerable and have a blind fate in a stranger? And how do you start a relationship with a lie, doesn't it set the tone for the future?

- I can ask her politely if she's open to meeting up and sharing with me more about the relationship with her ex and answer some specific questions that come to my mind. That's even worse option. She'll feel threatened, judged, defensive and repulsed whatever the situation with her ex is - even if she were actively sleeping with him (take the worst case scenario for example), she would still try to justify her actions and turn the blame on me. I am not entitled to all that information, of course. Which is fine with me and takes me back to option 1.

[bbogdanov]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I’m not necessarily open minded.  I simply value my friendships and don’t discard friends because we once dated.  Unless she has a child with her ex I don’t see why she has to share details of their relationship.  Do you want to know what sexual positions they preferred?  Because once you open the Pandora’s box it’s not fair to tell her that she can’t share about their sex life. 
I do know in Europe often exclusivity is presumed.  I multi dated because I wanted to get married.  I didn’t limit my opportunities to meet people just because I’d been dating someone a short time.  But I also didn’t have sex with people I’d recently started dating. 

That's what I mean by open-minded. To me and to most of the people in my part of the world this is very open-minded - to be a friend with an ex. People here tend to be more possessive and jealous and whatever you wish in that respect. Most men just can't accept an ex in their gf's life. It's not about not valuing friendships. Being in a relationship with a person totally changes things and it's something more than a friendship. I can't see it revert back to a friendship once people break up. And most people that have been friends first and then became a couple - they risk a lot because once it's over, the friendship is over, too. I can only recall of a single friend of mine that keeps a friendship with his ex because of his sense of duty about her son (from a previous relationship) but she totally uses him for doing her services and favours. Opening Pandora's box is not something I am afraid of and I don't care about the sexual positions they preferred - as long as it's just a past I can accept almost anything. The problem here is that I don't know IF IT'S in the past. Like I said - I want to be on equal terms and if I'm long over my exes and totally "clean", I expect the same.

Usually I only date one person at a time. It may be not so good but I want to focus my time and energy to get to know a person and it takes just couple of dates to know if I want to continue so it's not that big of an investment. Multi-dating is just not my type of thing.

[bbogdanov]

8 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I have occasionally dated guys who started out as friends. When things didn't work out for us as a couple, we went back to being friends. Even though we were in a relationship for a period of time, I wouldn't refer to them as my ex boyfriend. Yes, technically the qualify as ex-boyfriends. But for me, that wasn't the defining part of our relationship.

In that case you may have a good point here, but she and her ex had a relationship of 3-4 years. I don't know if they'd started out as friends but it was a serious relationship and they lived together for more than a year so I guess a family was their end goal. I can't comprehend being friends after the breakup in this scenario and the defining part of their relationship will really be about their love story, not their friendship.

[Batya33]

Once again I am not more open minded about my friendships.  I prioritize my friendships especially my close ones.  So when I evaluate proper boundaries with my romantic partner - my spouse -the value I place on close friendships is part of the balancing whether I dated that person or not.  For example I was late for my husband's 40th birthday celebration with his parents (we weren't married at the time). I'm never late unless it's entirely out of my control like a random subway delay (even then I'm usually not). 

But I chose to hang out with my friend who was ill, discharged from the hospital that day, and worried about her health, had no cell phone and emailed him via Blackberry which he didn't receive.  I couldn't make a phone call because my friend was in a bad way and needed me there every second.  He was mad at me and thought that I should have left unless she needed an ambulance.  I waited till someone else came to be with her. I was less than a half hour late.  His mother actually sided with me and saw how I was between a rock and a hard place.  He ended up understanding.  So you see when you value close friendships it's going to require balancing with valuing your partner.  Nothing to do with gender/past romantic affiliation.

Being jealous or possessive has nothing to do with healthy relationships.  So I'm not going to compare myself to someone who is possessive or jealous -that person might not be close minded at all.  That person may simply be a person who is insecure and reacts to who their partner interacts with from a place of insecurity whether his or her partner is friends with an ex or has close friendships with men.  That level of insecurity has nothing to do with being in a romantic relationship -it's separate.  Am I more "open minded" than a person who chooses to react out of insecurity and act in a possessive way toward another person -sure I guess so but it doesn't make me more open minded about romantic relationships.

If you ask her about her past instead of asking her if she is dating him now/wants him back now - you can't stop her from sharing all the gritty details so be aware you might be treated to a never ending loop of images of the places he took her, what he bought her for her birthday, and yes their sex life.  Listen to the song or read the lyrics to We Have No Secrets (Carly Simon).

All that matters now is does she want him back and if he wants her back how does she deal with his behavior and maintain a platonic connection.  She's already showed you she prioritizes her friendship with him over being with you on a date by leaving you to take his call for several minutes -not ten seconds of "sorry can't talk now" or not a quick "can't talk now" text.  I'm married and when my husband wants to speak with me other than "where's that ice cream cup I got months ago" (true story) - I will actually put my phone down or even turn it over or look pointedly away from my screen so he has my full attention. 

And if I get a notification I will look only if I'm expecting a really important call. and with apologies.  He deserves my full attention and shouldn't have to compete with a device. Think about it.

[bbogdanov]

34 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Once again I am not more open minded about my friendships.  I prioritize my friendships especially my close ones.  So when I evaluate proper boundaries with my romantic partner - my spouse -the value I place on close friendships is part of the balancing whether I dated that person or not.  For example I was late for my husband's 40th birthday celebration with his parents (we weren't married at the time). I'm never late unless it's entirely out of my control like a random subway delay (even then I'm usually not). 

But I chose to hang out with my friend who was ill, discharged from the hospital that day, and worried about her health, had no cell phone and emailed him via Blackberry which he didn't receive.  I couldn't make a phone call because my friend was in a bad way and needed me there every second.  He was mad at me and thought that I should have left unless she needed an ambulance.  I waited till someone else came to be with her. I was less than a half hour late.  His mother actually sided with me and saw how I was between a rock and a hard place.  He ended up understanding.  So you see when you value close friendships it's going to require balancing with valuing your partner.  Nothing to do with gender/past romantic affiliation.

Being jealous or possessive has nothing to do with healthy relationships.  So I'm not going to compare myself to someone who is possessive or jealous -that person might not be close minded at all.  That person may simply be a person who is insecure and reacts to who their partner interacts with from a place of insecurity whether his or her partner is friends with an ex or has close friendships with men.  That level of insecurity has nothing to do with being in a romantic relationship -it's separate.  Am I more "open minded" than a person who chooses to react out of insecurity and act in a possessive way toward another person -sure I guess so but it doesn't make me more open minded about romantic relationships.

If you ask her about her past instead of asking her if she is dating him now/wants him back now - you can't stop her from sharing all the gritty details so be aware you might be treated to a never ending loop of images of the places he took her, what he bought her for her birthday, and yes their sex life.  Listen to the song or read the lyrics to We Have No Secrets (Carly Simon).

All that matters now is does she want him back and if he wants her back how does she deal with his behavior and maintain a platonic connection.  She's already showed you she prioritizes her friendship with him over being with you on a date by leaving you to take his call for several minutes -not ten seconds of "sorry can't talk now" or not a quick "can't talk now" text.  I'm married and when my husband wants to speak with me other than "where's that ice cream cup I got months ago" (true story) - I will actually put my phone down or even turn it over or look pointedly away from my screen so he has my full attention. 

And if I get a notification I will look only if I'm expecting a really important call. and with apologies.  He deserves my full attention and shouldn't have to compete with a device. Think about it.

Let's agree to disagree about friendships then : ) Once there was a passion, sex and so on, I can't see it going back to a friendship. Valuing close friendships is important and there must be a balance between them and your partner, like you said. I totally don't care about whom my gf spends her time with (which friends, where, when, etc.) as long as it's not her ex!

So I am not jealous or possessive and have never been (some of my previous gfs have shown me inappropriate messages from men in FB but I couldn't care less). I trust my gf and I know she won't be dragged into something like that and won't cheat on me. But ex in the picture is not something I will agree to. I don't care about male friends of my gf. I ONLY care about a male friend she's had history with. I designate you as "open minded" because you don't mind your partner keeping an ex in his life, that's not so acceptable in my region (so I am saying it from my cultural point of view and it is not a negative connotation at all!).

I am totally ready to hear about her past everything she's got to share. Past is past and I don't care about it. But past being dragged into the present and into the future is something I'll try to prevent, even if I have to stop dating her.

The main point is whether she wants him back or whether he wants her back, like you said. But I don't know how can I trust her answering that question, whatever she might say...

Your last two paragraphs will be used by me for sure. We will meet in the evening and I told her we have to talk about some serious issues. She told me she is open to tell the whole truth and I am waiting to know everything there is. If a miracle doesn't happen, I think this evening will be the last one.

[Batya33]

One of my exes and I got married in the same year -and both to men -would that make a difference LOL? There's nothing to agree or disagree about because multiple times I've written to you that you are entitled to your standards about relationships and you of course will limit your dating pool and that works when the limitations are based on your personal dealbreakers.  I did disagree that I am more open minded about exes because others are jealous and possessive.  But that's because you were writing about how I came to the standards I came to and what you wrote was not accurate. 

I think you are sabotaging by telling her in advance that there are "serious issues" - especially in a new relationship that puts people off and on the defensive.  Hope despite my opinion it goes well.  Good luck.

[boltnrun]

I would have said "I have some concerns". Saying "there are serious issues" implies she is doing something wrong. The only "wrong" things I see are being rude about leaving a date to take a phone call and lying about who she was talking to and then deflecting and accusing you of "not trusting" her.

If she tells you she and her ex are "just friends" and she intends to continue to communicate with him, is that a deal breaker for you? Will you stop dating her?

[Andrina]

The conversation I would be having, since your next step would be becoming exclusive, is to see if you share the same relationship boundaries. Because you don't want to waste time if this is your goal, to date someone who will continue communication with an ex, no matter what either's reasons for doing so. 

I chose a husband who doesn't keep in contact with exes because that's not in my comfort level, and I have no desire to stay in contact with exes. The world is full of people who vary, so there is no right or wrong. The secret to relationship happiness, however, is to choose a person who matches you in relationship boundaries. That's the question you should be asking right now, what her idea about that issue is, when she is in an exclusive relationship.

[bbogdanov]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

One of my exes and I got married in the same year -and both to men -would that make a difference LOL? There's nothing to agree or disagree about because multiple times I've written to you that you are entitled to your standards about relationships and you of course will limit your dating pool and that works when the limitations are based on your personal dealbreakers.  I did disagree that I am more open minded about exes because others are jealous and possessive.  But that's because you were writing about how I came to the standards I came to and what you wrote was not accurate. 

I think you are sabotaging by telling her in advance that there are "serious issues" - especially in a new relationship that puts people off and on the defensive.  Hope despite my opinion it goes well.  Good luck.

I didn’t mean to offend you somehow. Just my understanding. My exact words were “…to talk honestly and openly about some topics…” so I incorrectly described my message. It will still put people off, I guess. Just like I am put off by lies and hiding things. It’s fair enough.

[bbogdanov]

21 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I would have said "I have some concerns". Saying "there are serious issues" implies she is doing something wrong. The only "wrong" things I see are being rude about leaving a date to take a phone call and lying about who she was talking to and then deflecting and accusing you of "not trusting" her.

If she tells you she and her ex are "just friends" and she intends to continue to communicate with him, is that a deal breaker for you? Will you stop dating her?

See my above message, I incorrectly described my text to her, my bad.

If she intends keeping the same type of communication with him - I am gone as fast as possible. Totally not my thing. 

[bbogdanov]

4 minutes ago, Andrina said:

The conversation I would be having, since your next step would be becoming exclusive, is to see if you share the same relationship boundaries. Because you don't want to waste time if this is your goal, to date someone who will continue communication with an ex, no matter what either's reasons for doing so. 

I chose a husband who doesn't keep in contact with exes because that's not in my comfort level, and I have no desire to stay in contact with exes. The world is full of people who vary, so there is no right or wrong. The secret to relationship happiness, however, is to choose a person who matches you in relationship boundaries. That's the question you should be asking right now, what her idea about that issue is, when she is in an exclusive relationship.

Your point is totally right! It’s all about compatibility, in that case - relationship boundaries. If she wants to keep her ex as a friend - good luck and all the best, I’m out.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I didn’t mean to offend you somehow. Just my understanding. My exact words were “…to talk honestly and openly about some topics…” so I incorrectly described my message. It will still put people off, I guess. Just like I am put off by lies and hiding things. It’s fair enough.

What you said wasn't offensive -I saw it as self sabotaging/unnecessarily dark.  I personally hate when someone foreshadows like that -including at work.  I totally get if someone texts me for time to talk about something serious because that might require more time so it lets me plan a longer time -but not if she is referring to something serious between us- then I'll just worry and get stressed.  

I would hope all your conversations are honest and open so I'm not sure why you had to signal this or be vague about "some topics"- it really does seem like you're getting in your own way. And I would never ever send that in a text - if I couldn't speak to the person I wouldn't type that - that makes it seem even more draconian/"serious".

I like what Andrina wrote - she and her husband don't stay in touch with exes as a rule.  So it works for them.  For me it would be a deal-breaker if someone wanted me to cut off a good friend just because we'd dated in the past so I too would want to know all this information up front.  

It's good you know that she would have to cut off friendships with anyone she dated in order to date you. I'm a little surprised you have gotten this attached to her especially sexually without making sure you two were on the same page seeing that you claim to have gotten so close so fast - it's not atypical to have no contact with exes but it's also not typical. 

(For me, I would have missed out on making a new friend who I am still friendly with -lovely person- and my son making friends with her kids had my husband cut off his friendship with a woman he dated and also had professional ties with -they remained friends and I met her shortly after we started dating, before she was married and had kids - once she was she and I hung out together regularly with our kids (most often with my husband not there) -what a shame it would have been if I hadn't become friends with her -and my son with her kids - just because my husband dated her.).  Once again you do you it just reminds me of what I would have missed out on.  I'm sure my example is fairly typical. 

[Jibralta]

15 minutes ago, Andrina said:

The conversation I would be having, since your next step would be becoming exclusive, is to see if you share the same relationship boundaries.

I think this is a very sensible next step. Cuts right to the chase.

[boltnrun]

I would be sure to make "I" statements rather than "you". For example, "I really enjoy spending time with you. You're special to me. I would like for us to be exclusively dating. I do have some concerns though. It was a bit upsetting to me when you left our date to take a phone call from your ex and then were not honest about who you were talking to. It also bothered me that you said you don't believe I trust you. When I'm exclusively dating someone I feel it's important that there be no communication or spending time with people we used to date (use the word "we" here). This is a relationship boundary I feel comfortable with. How do you feel about that?"

Of course your words would be less formal and clunky, but you get the idea.

[bbogdanov]

Well, I have to admit my fault here  I was imagining all kinds of bad scenarios. I shouldn't be so angry and decisive (preemptively) without having all the information. I guess it's a protective mechanism for my ego (or something like that). We had a 2-hour talk and she openly shared everything about her life in the past 3 years.

- The ex is a colleague of hers (not in the same department, they don't usually have work relations)

- She had a hard time getting over that relationship. She knew they are "not suited for one another" even back then (at the end of their relationship) and she regrets that she wasn't the one to end it earlier, but she is usually not capable of. Her father died when she was 9-year-old and she has some pattern of not being able to overcome the loss of men in her life (her words).

- She had a 6-month period of no contact with this man after the breakup but afterwards they became civil little by little. He has a group of 3-4 friends which has became her group of friends, too, so they gather occasionally and go to summer vacations together.

- They don't meet one-on-one and she's never been intimate with him after the breakup ("I prefer being single and not having sex at all to being intimate with him"). She is not attracted to him at all.

- She admitted that the late evening call situation was a bad move of her. He has a habit of calling her sometimes to talk about mundane stuff (especially after having a few drinks). She said that if she had to make a choice - she will always choose her partner, not her group of friends ("I won't live with my friends but with my bf").

- I told her I'd like her to communicate with the ex only if there's something important, no pointless calls/chats. She promised to. (here I may sound possessive because I succumbed to the power she handed me over after we had sex - she was totally submissive and I think whatever I demanded from her, she would agree to... but I still don't want her to chat aimlessly with the ex and if I can't have him out of her life completely, at least I want the contact to be minimized)

- She asked me if I allowed her to go to the summer vacation with her group of friends (ex including). I told her that I am not her master and she is free to do as she likes. She thought about an option to invite me, too, but I politely declined. She said the two of us can go on a separate vacation later.

- We spent the night at my place and she's all over me. This behaviour makes me have some trust in her but I am still not 100% convinced. I told her that I still find such friendships strange and illogical but I accept her way of thinking and I will try to be open to it.

[bbogdanov]

Do you find all this plausible and should I have some considerations or be blindly trusting her?

[Andrina]

4 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Her father died when she was 9-year-old and she has some pattern of not being able to overcome the loss of men in her life (her words).

This is a warning shot over your bow. Really important info there. A person with emotional baggage is  someone who is hard to have a relationship with. They drag around that heavy baggage and it's exhausting. So she hangs on to each man in her past, like collecting them on a chain? An excuse meant to touch your heart strings since it's tied to her father's death.

I only know that if someone I dated went on vacations, even with a group, with an ex and stayed in contact, he'd no longer be someone I dated.

That's me, though. You've been given lots of info so it's entirely up to you what you do.

[Batya33]

Why would you blindly trust anyone? I think it's kind of concerning -a little scary even -how you put the submissive/demanding comment.  Are you sure you really like her as a person or is this your ego just liking the thrill of the chase since she's been a wee bit out of your grasp? 

Trust is not about someone being all over you.  No connection, no relevance at all.  Trust is what is appropriate to the circumstances -for example you trust her to be honest with you about not having STDs and using protection during intercourse - because if you don't you wouldn't be having sex right? 

Understand she's telling you that even if she wants to end things in the future she "can't" because of her father.  That is one reason she shared this with you.  Not because she is not a good person -she is sharing the downsides of being with her.

I think it's entirely unreasonable for you to expect her to go on vacation where her ex is and keep things to a polite/impersonal level - if they're all away together of course she should be friendly with him and have what you refer to as "pointless chats" - it's very nice that she invited you . I'm a little surprised you declined.  

I'd keep the strange and illogical comments to yourself from now on - she didn't ask you -she is her own person, and she told you her standard is to prioritize her partner over her friends because she will live with a boyfriend - I find that kind of strange depending on the circumstances- that kind of broad reaching statement seems really odd to me -  but if someone said that to me I'd keep my opinions to myself.  

I just now read Andrina's comment and see that we agree on the father death reasoning - I like how she put it!  As far as the vacation the only way I would go on a vacation where my ex would be is if it was random -meaning we were attending the same huge work conference and then staying on for a few days after with separate groups of friends - so that sure I might run into him randomly at the huge resort or hotel but I wouldn't be on vacation "with him." 

She invited you so obviously she's not trying to win him back and I don't think being at the same place is inappropriate but know that you cannot then monitor how she's interacting with him - it's vacation, to have fun/be lighthearted and her boundaries with him cannot be simply polite -it would be awkward for the rest of the group too.  

Again -do you actually like and respect her as a person or is this a power trip for you?