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Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me


bbogdanov
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2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

We went to the movies yesterday. After that we sat in a restaurant and talked a lot.

She was curious to know why I had removed my message the previous day. I told her that we had different communication styles and we didn’t match (in that area). Also I explained to her that I felt stupid and not comfortable and my offer for going out had had expired. I’d decided to not text her anymore after that and she admitted that she’d felt that there was something like that. She told me that she was tired of messaging with men (because of previous relationships and dating experiences) but I am usually texting her mostly when arranging dates. So I told her that I didn’t find her not even opening my message a nice thing (given the fact that she’d been online multiple times) and I am not used to such behaviour. I repeatedly said, though, that there wasn’t a guilty or faulty person in that situation because we are individuals and we just didn’t match. I think she seemed a little bit upset about that and told me that it wasn’t so important thing so we left it at that. The dinner was great overall and we were kissing and hugging. I arranged a date at her place for this evening and we’ll see where it goes.

The strange thing is that I still feel down and sad after every date. I am perplexed because I’ve never felt like that when dating - I am happy that things seem to progress and I am sad at the same time because I feel insecure.

Well, she asked so you answered. If she didn't care she wouldn't have asked. If she was upset I think she may have been upset at herself.

Good for you for not placing that blame on her and letting her know the miscommunication or how you felt. I tend to think of this date as quite positive. She asked you out to the movies, you accepted, you both had an opportunity not only to observe but share in your curiosities about each other and learn more about each other. You learned she's cautious and she learned that you're curious about her and interested in her. 

All you need to do now is keep up the pace and enjoy your dates. Last night for example was a great way to get a better idea of what her schedule is like. If she's busy on Weds, Thurs, Fri, ask her out earlier in the week when she's not overburdened with things going on and you both don't have to do back and forth texting. Ask if she's free for a quick call and call her. Press the dial button and ask her out. Be a bit intuitive about a person's schedule and considerate. Please don't overthink this. 

Go out and do your own thing also. You don't need her texts to make you feel good about yourself. You can manage that on your own - just a matter of doing other things and varying it up.

 

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3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

So,  I would feel sad too.  That sounds like a real downer - to have that long a conversation about communication styles about how you each choose to type words on a screen.  I really don't get it -and why you repeatedly had to mention guilt or fault.  How long have you been dating? Wasn't this the date after she returned from vacation?? Please please please let this small and petty stuff go or vent to a therapist or in a private journal.  This reminds me of a date I once had -guy told me he'd been laid off and it sounded more like fired. So I chose not to follow up on it, not to pry.  Because -early date, have fun, try to stick to what is light and easy breezy. 

At the end of the dinner he criticized me for how dare I not ask him about how it felt to be fired. I tried to explain my thinking but you know what -he was just ready to find fault.  Darned if you do, darned if you don't.  Then I saw him one more time, he said he spotted me dancing with another guy at a singles event and went out and got drunk.  Ironically (no we were not exclusive) I was dancing with a platonic guy friend I'd dated in the past as a fun way to make his ex -who was there- jealous.

Please please cut down on the heavy talk about communication styles - she feels chastised and criticized I bet no matter how many times you told her all about your guilt/fault analysis. Please lighten up.  

I didn’t talk about it, she wanted to know my opinion. And about the fault/guilt - that’s what I am saying. Nobody is gulty of anything, especially her. When she asked me about it, I just wanted to share my opinion and how I feel these things. And that’s why I explicitly said that I don’t blame anyone, because some people get offended. Just a mismatch, nothing more, nothing less.

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46 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

Well, she asked so you answered. If she didn't care she wouldn't have asked. If she was upset I think she may have been upset at herself.

Good for you for not placing that blame on her and letting her know the miscommunication or how you felt. I tend to think of this date as quite positive. She asked you out to the movies, you accepted, you both had an opportunity not only to observe but share in your curiosities about each other and learn more about each other. You learned she's cautious and she learned that you're curious about her and interested in her. 

All you need to do now is keep up the pace and enjoy your dates. Last night for example was a great way to get a better idea of what her schedule is like. If she's busy on Weds, Thurs, Fri, ask her out earlier in the week when she's not overburdened with things going on and you both don't have to do back and forth texting. Ask if she's free for a quick call and call her. Press the dial button and ask her out. Be a bit intuitive about a person's schedule and considerate. Please don't overthink this. 

Go out and do your own thing also. You don't need her texts to make you feel good about yourself. You can manage that on your own - just a matter of doing other things and varying it up.

 

That’s what I wanted her to know - I openly share my discomfort and feelings about the communication issues (because I was asked) but I explicitly told her that I didn’t blame anything/anyone.

As for the next date - I arranged the next one for this evening at her place when we parted ways yesterday. We will order some food, walk the dog and maybe have some fun time : )

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19 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I didn’t talk about it, she wanted to know my opinion. And about the fault/guilt - that’s what I am saying. Nobody is gulty of anything, especially her. When she asked me about it, I just wanted to share my opinion and how I feel these things. And that’s why I explicitly said that I don’t blame anyone, because some people get offended. Just a mismatch, nothing more, nothing less.

It doesn't matter to me if she asked. You could have answered briefly, brushed it off - told her briefly of course it's all ok -sorry if she thought otherwise- and moved on to what appetizer to choose.  I think how you approached it was heavy handed and overwhelming in a new dating relationship especially.   Where does guilt or fault even have any relevance to the conversation?? There's no mismatch here. It's texting.  It's typing.  No biggie.

Have fun tonight!

Edited by Batya33
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15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It doesn't matter to me if she asked. You could have answered briefly, brushed it off - told her briefly of course it's all ok -sorry if she thought otherwise- and moved on to what appetizer to choose.  I think how you approached it was heavy handed and overwhelming in a new dating relationship especially.   Where does guilt or fault even have any relevance to the conversation?? There's no mismatch here. It's texting.  It's typing.  No biggie.

Have fun tonight!

Well, we didn’t talk about it much, maybe 5-10 minutes. Telling her it was ok is not something I feel well doing it. It would be a lie. Overwhelming - may be. I’d miss her if she decided to not continue dating me because of it. But she asked and I was relieved to share my thoughts. Guilt is what some people will feel I am placing on them because of these thoughts of mine, that’s what I wanted to prevent (lest she thinks I am accusing her of not texting me how I’d like her to be). That’s the relevance here. I still can’t be convinced that somebody is so busy that she/he can’t find a minute to text back (especially if the said person is periodically online). I haven’t got such people in my circle of friends and relatives and I haven’t had such a partner. Just my preference. That’s where I saw a mismatch.

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4 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Well, we didn’t talk about it much, maybe 5-10 minutes. Telling her it was ok is not something I feel well doing it. It would be a lie. Overwhelming - may be. I’d miss her if she decided to not continue dating me because of it. But she asked and I was relieved to share my thoughts. Guilt is what some people will feel I am placing on them because of these thoughts of mine, that’s what I wanted to prevent (lest she thinks I am accusing her of not texting me how I’d like her to be). That’s the relevance here. I still can’t be convinced that somebody is so busy that she/he can’t find a minute to text back (especially if the said person is periodically online). I haven’t got such people in my circle of friends and relatives and I haven’t had such a partner. Just my preference. That’s where I saw a mismatch.

It doesn't matter if it was two minutes.  I didn't say to tell her it was "ok" or to lie -just to deal with it in a much much more low key/brush it off way - just say "oh it's all good now - it was just a miscommunication" -and you know what -it's not lying to say to yourself "ok I was annoyed but I'd rather be close than right so I don't need to overshare/belabor this".  You being relieved is wonderful -but that's one sided and self-absorbed -instead of sharing your thoughts as you did, perhaps choose not to subject her to all of that stuff and verbage and find another way to get relief.  

No, it can take more than a minute to text back. I will give you some examples.  When I am preparing one of the many many meals I now have to because of the pandemic, if I want to text back I have to wash my hands again after texting.  So it's stopping the prep, texting then washing and drying my hands again. More than a minute and all this handwashing does a number on my skin. 

If it's not an urgent text no I don't text back right away because if I put my hands on my phone I might be tempted to then check social media - so for example this morning I turned my phone over and put it on silent so I could focus on getting my work done. 

Maybe I still show up as "online" - I don't know.  I don't care.  I'm not a slave to my phone or texting back on someone's schedule unless it is really urgent.  Then I do.  

I'd be really careful about labeling "mismatch" and other heavy handed labels especially with someone who doesn't yet know you well.  

Have fun tonight!

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10 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

The strange thing is that I still feel down and sad after every date. I am perplexed because I’ve never felt like that when dating - I am happy that things seem to progress and I am sad at the same time because I feel insecure.

What can you do besides dump these feelings onto her?

Do you actually want to stop dating her? Because it seems like you're trying to sabotage.

If dating you starts being a real downer she may not want to continue.

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On 6/26/2021 at 8:01 PM, Batya33 said:

It doesn't matter if it was two minutes.  I didn't say to tell her it was "ok" or to lie -just to deal with it in a much much more low key/brush it off way - just say "oh it's all good now - it was just a miscommunication" -and you know what -it's not lying to say to yourself "ok I was annoyed but I'd rather be close than right so I don't need to overshare/belabor this".  You being relieved is wonderful -but that's one sided and self-absorbed -instead of sharing your thoughts as you did, perhaps choose not to subject her to all of that stuff and verbage and find another way to get relief.  

No, it can take more than a minute to text back. I will give you some examples.  When I am preparing one of the many many meals I now have to because of the pandemic, if I want to text back I have to wash my hands again after texting.  So it's stopping the prep, texting then washing and drying my hands again. More than a minute and all this handwashing does a number on my skin. 

If it's not an urgent text no I don't text back right away because if I put my hands on my phone I might be tempted to then check social media - so for example this morning I turned my phone over and put it on silent so I could focus on getting my work done. 

Maybe I still show up as "online" - I don't know.  I don't care.  I'm not a slave to my phone or texting back on someone's schedule unless it is really urgent.  Then I do.  

I'd be really careful about labeling "mismatch" and other heavy handed labels especially with someone who doesn't yet know you well.  

Have fun tonight!

Brushing it off with “oh it’s all good now” would still not be true because I didn’t think this “problem” was resolved. I just shared my thoughts about it without expecting her to change. I was struggling to understand it and maybe find a way to cope with it. Relieving myself may really be one sided but it still is what it is - an egotistic act and I am guilty of doing it.

I guess preparing that meal won’t take more than couple of hours and you will  reply after that? Which is perfectly fine. Not responding for 8 hours when being online at the same time was the thing that disturbed me.

About the mismatch - I said this about the communication styles, not about us as persons.

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20 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What can you do besides dump these feelings onto her?

Do you actually want to stop dating her? Because it seems like you're trying to sabotage.

If dating you starts being a real downer she may not want to continue.

I don’t want to dump them onto her. I am trying to understand where they come from.

I don’t want to stop dating her, I like her.

When we are together, I have none of those feelings, I am enjoying my time with her. So she won’t see me like that.

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BTW the yesterday’s date became almost 24-hour one. I went to her place and we ordered some pizza. I slept over there and the next day we went for a walk near a landmark around town. She then came to my place and I drove her back to her place at the evening.

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3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Brushing it off with “oh it’s all good now” would still not be true because I didn’t think this “problem” was resolved. I just shared my thoughts about it without expecting her to change. I was struggling to understand it and maybe find a way to cope with it. Relieving myself may really be one sided but it still is what it is - an egotistic act and I am guilty of doing it.

I guess preparing that meal won’t take more than couple of hours and you will  reply after that? Which is perfectly fine. Not responding for 8 hours when being online at the same time was the thing that disturbed me.

About the mismatch - I said this about the communication styles, not about us as persons.

I think you have to deal with your own problem in these out of whack expectations where you monitor how long someone is online and responding to a non-urgent text.  Give people -including her -space to get to know you and I know you meant mismatch as far as communication styles -once you use such a trendy label about something so miniscule it can raise alarm bells for a new person in your life.  There may be a mismatch -and I suspect if your style is to see how long it takes for someone to reply to a non-urgent text you are going to be spending a lot of time not having to worry about it at all if you get my drift.  Please consider lightening up on your expectations.

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3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

BTW the yesterday’s date became almost 24-hour one. I went to her place and we ordered some pizza. I slept over there and the next day we went for a walk near a landmark around town. She then came to my place and I drove her back to her place at the evening.

Oh good!! Glad you had a nice tie!

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6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think you have to deal with your own problem in these out of whack expectations where you monitor how long someone is online and responding to a non-urgent text.  Give people -including her -space to get to know you and I know you meant mismatch as far as communication styles -once you use such a trendy label about something so miniscule it can raise alarm bells for a new person in your life.  There may be a mismatch -and I suspect if your style is to see how long it takes for someone to reply to a non-urgent text you are going to be spending a lot of time not having to worry about it at all if you get my drift.  Please consider lightening up on your expectations.

I don't monitor online activity of others purposefully. I am just a regular user of social media and I tend to use it several times a day so I get to see who's online. This combined with my question about a possible date not being answered to makes me discomfortable. The communication style issue may be miniscule for some people but it is not unimportant to me, I suppose. My style is not to see how long it takes for someone to reply, I just expect some decency there (which means not having to wait whole day for an answer). I am used to different tempo.

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7 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I don't monitor online activity of others purposefully. I am just a regular user of social media and I tend to use it several times a day so I get to see who's online. This combined with my question about a possible date not being answered to makes me discomfortable. The communication style issue may be miniscule for some people but it is not unimportant to me, I suppose. My style is not to see how long it takes for someone to reply, I just expect some decency there (which means not having to wait whole day for an answer). I am used to different tempo.

You're entitled to your expectations and priorities for sure and you know that that will limit your dating pool.  I had certain dealbreakers too that limited my dating pool.  But I'd avoid discussing it at all especially with the negativity of "mismatch" - because if you stay with her know it's miniscule to her and how she operates so she likely won't appreciate it being in her face with labels like "mismatch".  I don't think it's indecent at all not to type back to someone for a non urgent text.  Urgent -or if it's to confirm a plan etc or she promised to get back to you in a certain time period -of course -just like with any plan or urgency - but otherwise no that wouldn't be my standard at all. 

But it's yours and if you find it rude or indecent on her part then consider that your personal resentment will build and/or she'll feel obligated to respond.  NOthing worse than feeling obligated.  

I'll add this -often I'll quickly respond to someone else where it will take ten seconds and not respond to someone else or I look like I am online but I am not.  Also I have a friend who, if I respond, she'll likely call me once or twice when I can't actually speak -so I delay responding at a time when I might be able to speak.  Yes, even if I text back "just responding to you -busy - can't talk - glad it went well"

I'm glad you had fun with her!

Edited by Batya33
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26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You're entitled to your expectations and priorities for sure and you know that that will limit your dating pool.  I had certain dealbreakers too that limited my dating pool.  But I'd avoid discussing it at all especially with the negativity of "mismatch" - because if you stay with her know it's miniscule to her and how she operates so she likely won't appreciate it being in her face with labels like "mismatch".  I don't think it's indecent at all not to type back to someone for a non urgent text.  Urgent -or if it's to confirm a plan etc or she promised to get back to you in a certain time period -of course -just like with any plan or urgency - but otherwise no that wouldn't be my standard at all. 

But it's yours and if you find it rude or indecent on her part then consider that your personal resentment will build and/or she'll feel obligated to respond.  NOthing worse than feeling obligated.  

I'll add this -often I'll quickly respond to someone else where it will take ten seconds and not respond to someone else or I look like I am online but I am not.  Also I have a friend who, if I respond, she'll likely call me once or twice when I can't actually speak -so I delay responding at a time when I might be able to speak.  Yes, even if I text back "just responding to you -busy - can't talk - glad it went well"

I'm glad you had fun with her!

You're 100% right about limiting my dating pool! I don't consider it a deal breaker, I guess. It's just something that bothers me and I am struggling for a solution while there aren't really that many options (she changes, I change or we part ways). English is not my native tongue and I am not sure if I translated it correctly - I told her that we weren't suitable communication-wise (which I guess is close enough to a "mismatch" after all?). This was the first and last discussion about it so I won't bother her with it anymore. I still feel that way when communicating, though, but I am trying to let things happen or see if I can bear it. I suppose my feeling of "indecency" here is due to my personal attitude and preference - I am used to replying to people (family, friends, etc.) as fast as I can because I have my phone with me most of the time (like most of the people nowadays, especially young ones) and I don't feel well if I let them wait for my reply. I work a 9 to 5 job and have hobbies and interests but I can always find a minute to get back to somebody. For me, it's about willingness, not about ability to find time. And BTW my deleted message was about confirming a date (I avoid small talk with her because I know she is not keen on it so I really expected a somewhat fast response (several hours or so) - all the while I know every expectation is totally mine and she is not obliged to anything.

I don't want to build resentment so I still try to find a way of dealing with this issue of mine. My explanation to her was partly with the intent of sharing openly how I felt while making sure at the same time that I didn't place obligations on her. I myself will not feel good and won't be happy being with a woman that changes her behaviour because of me. That's why I am struggling to find a solution but I am more inclined to review my way of thinking about it.

Last paragraph makes sense, but I am not that type of person and I won't bother her with multiple messages or a call, especially if (like you said) she told me she was busy.

Thanks for the advice! I am now thinking about the next steps. I know getting intimate changes things somehow and I wonder how to proceed and not screw things up...

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Can you convince yourself to enjoy all the good things about dating this woman? Or are you willing to give all of that up just because she doesn't text back as quickly as you want her to and doesn't send daily "How are you?" texts? Is it worth it to lose all of that just because of texting?

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Please don't elevate typing back and forth to "communication" that is relevant to building a romantic relationship with serious potential.  It's communication on a technical level because it is one way people exchange information.

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2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Can you convince yourself to enjoy all the good things about dating this woman? Or are you willing to give all of that up just because she doesn't text back as quickly as you want her to and doesn't send daily "How are you?" texts? Is it worth it to lose all of that just because of texting?

It’s not worth it, of course. And I do enjoy our dates fully! The problem arises in the time between them. Like I said - I have insecurity and constant fear of rejection (I won’t involve her in that, of course). Part of it may be because of that texting “issue” but it’s just the icing on the cake. I want to dig deeper and find what makes me such a mess.

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7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Please don't elevate typing back and forth to "communication" that is relevant to building a romantic relationship with serious potential.  It's communication on a technical level because it is one way people exchange information.

Yeah, texting is a type of communication but not the only one, of course. Although in my opinion it is not to be underestimated as a way to complement a relationship. I’ve had some good conversations over text with previous gfs. 

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2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Yeah, texting is a type of communication but not the only one, of course. Although in my opinion it is not to be underestimated as a way to complement a relationship. I’ve had some good conversations over text with previous gfs. 

But the extreme amount of importance you are placing on texting is interfering with your ability to enjoy dating this woman.

Also, those previous girlfriends were obviously not right for you, as illustrated by the fact they are exes. Despite their fondness of texting.

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2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Yeah, texting is a type of communication but not the only one, of course. Although in my opinion it is not to be underestimated as a way to complement a relationship. I’ve had some good conversations over text with previous gfs. 

We all have. I mean you’re elevating it to relationship level “communication “. It’s not.  It’s simply one way to impart information and a very risky way for anything of depth or importance.  There’s the technology risk - like the many many texts I thought I sent but didn’t.  Same for my friends.  And the risk of misunderstanding or misinterpretation.  Just like talking by phone or sending a letter or a telegram or blowing smoke signals is not “communication “. Healthy Communication is how two people are able to interact and be understood and respected and acknowledged.  The method is secondary.  The implementation of the method and how it relates to manners is secondary when it’s a logistical or technical matter.  which is what you’re talking about when you judge and criticize how long she takes to respond and you make all sorts of assumptions about when she read the text and how long she’s been online (“read “ doesn’t always mean read for content ). 
 

Texting is a really poor way to be understood or acknowledged in any way of depth.

 It’s great for sharing information about location or plans or directions and a great way to check in when that is needed and one or both people cannot answer a phone call.  

I’ve had great text convos too.  I have a new chat buddy the last few months.  We’ve never spoken by phone.  I have another friend who is so far online only - we plan to meet - covid got in the way - and she hates texting so we have great phone convos.

 One of my closest friends since 1978 is a pain in the behind the last five years plus for phone calls.  Numerous and rude interruptions.  So we just text.   Yes. Her phone behavior really annoyed me. But I balanced it against how lovely she is otherwise and you know what I shared with her about how I wished she’d make time to talk by phone ?? Nothing.  
 

That’s right - I didn’t share my feelings with my dear friend.  If she asked me I’d probably tell a white lie.  Why ? Because it’s not a battle I choose to take up and I’d rather be close than right.  I make the  same suggestion to you for your close personal relationships.  Take it or leave it. 

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11 hours ago, boltnrun said:

But the extreme amount of importance you are placing on texting is interfering with your ability to enjoy dating this woman.

Also, those previous girlfriends were obviously not right for you, as illustrated by the fact they are exes. Despite their fondness of texting.

I do place importance on communication between dates (texting or calling). But there isn't any connection between my exes being not "right" for me and their texting habits. I want a gf that is "right" for me AND having a communication style close to mine that suits me (those things are not incompatible).

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