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Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me


bbogdanov
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2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

This has happened several times already and I’ve always refused. It’s not appropriate for me and I think if we were waking up together every day, she would do it almost every time (on top of having a hard time getting up for work). She’s got a serious job but she’s acting like it’s not a big deal and it seems like running away from reality.

OP, you are nit-picking. You should let this go. If you can't stay for a morning rendezvous, then simply decline the offer and get ready for work. 

Like Jibralta said:

5 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Suggestions aren't the same thing as demands.

 

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13 hours ago, Popi33 said:

Bull*** my dear. I am from Europe as well and like you I was afraid and scared to pour my heart out and ask a guy to be together. But I did it and it liberated me because I was getting all over my head and wanting to text non sense to him (or previous guys instead of asking directly and politely). You won't be demanding but a simple do you want to be together or how you view us going forward is simple. People here really helped me get through this and no matter the outcome once you do it you feel empowered and relieved. And cmon if you are freaking out in the idea she's dating others her ex or whoever and acting aloof won't make you feel better. Only worse and it doesn't improve unless you come clean and speak your truth. I'm sorry but no matter what you think, if she doesn't want to be with you, then talking to her or not won't change that- but it will take you out of your misery looking for answers and face the truth. If she wants to then all good, if she doesn't then again all good, life goes on. But for the love of god, do something cause you're only hurting yourself. Been there done that, only brought me more anxiety and trouble. All the times I was scared to speak my truth and I did, things worked for me almost every time. You wanna stay in this limbo go ahead. I am not going back to the old me being afraid to take action. You can be kind, direct and honest. It never goes wrong.

You can be kind, direct and honest - you seem to be the latter two things but Bull*** doesn't fit the first one :D Never mind, thanks anyway! I don't have problems with our status and I don't need to pour my heart out. We don't date other people and things are going forwards.

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13 hours ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

OP, you are nit-picking. You should let this go. If you can't stay for a morning rendezvous, then simply decline the offer and get ready for work. 

Like Jibralta said:

 

I am just sharing details (even if they are little ones), I don't have anything to let go. I brush it off at the moment. Nothing can divert me from my morning routine and I've been like that forever (school, university, work). I have a sense of responsibility and getting up and being on time is my top priority, I am like a soldier

 

But I repeat - no big deal, just an inessential nuance of my observations

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13 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I am just sharing details (even if they are little ones), I don't have anything to let go. I brush it off at the moment. Nothing can divert me from my morning routine and I've been like that forever (school, university, work). I have a sense of responsibility and getting up and being on time is my top priority, I am like a soldier

But I repeat - no big deal, just an inessential nuance of my observations

Good - that is a solid mindset. I am that way too. I wake up, have my caffeine, get ready for the day. I might be mildly annoyed, too, if I deviated from that routine (before my intake of caffeine).

I am glad that you have seemingly framed it in the right way: these are little difficulties, kind of cute ones if you think about it. But if you respectfully decline, get up, and continue getting ready instead of entertaining her (probably tempting) advances, I think you will be fine. 

I am not sure how early you wake up... but when my most recent ex-gf stayed over and I had work in the morning, it was always so early so she was way too conked out to make advances. Props to your gf for having all of that energy if it is indeed early in the morning, lol.

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1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

You can be kind, direct and honest - you seem to be the latter two things but Bull*** doesn't fit the first one :D Never mind, thanks anyway! I don't have problems with our status and I don't need to pour my heart out. We don't date other people and things are going forwards.

Well still kind intentions, I meant for you to approach the one you might be interested with kindness but still assert what you want. It's your choice however indeed. The use of this word was as emphatic as it could be to help you understand that you're talking nonsense about "cultural" trait and stuff. This depends on a person and its highly individualistic if someone wants clarity. I just find it paradoxical that you request clarity about minor things with her and not on the bigger ones. I mean exclusivity helps partners bond unless both want it open- which is not the case for you. I thought the same about the guy I was seeing that it was "assumed" we don't date others and after I directly asked him to be together and that I realized I didn't want to date other people but give him all my attention (healthy way ofc not obsessing over relationship) he got excited and happy and told me "happy to hear you don't date others cause I want to be together" you know, he was thinking the same but until it's verbally agreed no party is certain. I mean you can try it so you rest your brain from all this thinking. Life is too short to assume things.

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1 hour ago, Pleasedonot5 said:

Good - that is a solid mindset. I am that way too. I wake up, have my caffeine, get ready for the day. I might be mildly annoyed, too, if I deviated from that routine (before my intake of caffeine).

I am glad that you have seemingly framed it in the right way: these are little difficulties, kind of cute ones if you think about it. But if you respectfully decline, get up, and continue getting ready instead of entertaining her (probably tempting) advances, I think you will be fine. 

I am not sure how early you wake up... but when my most recent ex-gf stayed over and I had work in the morning, it was always so early so she was way too conked out to make advances. Props to your gf for having all of that energy if it is indeed early in the morning, lol.

Yeah, I can't even define them as difficulties : ) And they are sometimes cute. After all, we don't fight about it, it's all playful in the end.

I wake up at 6:30. She has a really hard time getting up and she's usually laying in bed complaining about it and wanting me to stay in it, too :D She has more energy once she's ready and prepared for work.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Popi33 said:

Well still kind intentions, I meant for you to approach the one you might be interested with kindness but still assert what you want. It's your choice however indeed. The use of this word was as emphatic as it could be to help you understand that you're talking nonsense about "cultural" trait and stuff. This depends on a person and its highly individualistic if someone wants clarity. I just find it paradoxical that you request clarity about minor things with her and not on the bigger ones. I mean exclusivity helps partners bond unless both want it open- which is not the case for you. I thought the same about the guy I was seeing that it was "assumed" we don't date others and after I directly asked him to be together and that I realized I didn't want to date other people but give him all my attention (healthy way ofc not obsessing over relationship) he got excited and happy and told me "happy to hear you don't date others cause I want to be together" you know, he was thinking the same but until it's verbally agreed no party is certain. I mean you can try it so you rest your brain from all this thinking. Life is too short to assume things.

My bad. I had to say that the word was not kind, not you as a person. 

But I really rest my brain, I don't doubt our status now. And I still insist on not having the "excusivity" talk because it's not comfortable to me (I fell like it would be pointless asking about the obvious) and I never act like that. I asked couple of friends, btw, and both said that a confirmation was not needed usually because things happen naturally and you could gauge the situation. Of course it can be a bias but it works for me. So I don't really need clarity. If she needs such - she can ask me and I will confirm.

Edited by bbogdanov
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12 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

My bad. I had to say that the word was not kind, not you as a person. 

But I really rest my brain, I don't doubt our status now. And I still insist on not having the "excusivity" talk because it's not comfortable to me (I fell like it would be pointless asking about the obvious) and I never act like that. I asked couple of friends, btw, and both said that a confirmation was not needed usually because things happen naturally and you could gauge the situation. Of course it can be a bias but it works for me. So I don't really need clarity. If she needs such - she can ask me and I will confirm.

Well yes correct, I needed it so I asked and explained that for example open wouldn't work for me and I wanted to make it clear going forward. He could have agreed and felt the same or not and explain that he doesn't want a relationship. I just find that things are working themselves out once you put your cards on the table, it's a good way to assess if you're on the same page and opens a discussion. But you do it once, I don't intend to discuss it again at the moment as now it is pointless. Every situation is different and your friends might be right or wrong cause not everything grows organically or naturally taking a pace without some clear indications, like "hell yeah, want to be together let's do it". Tbh I asked and told myself would only move forward if response is as enthusiastic as this and it was. Anything less, I'd be like okay we aren't on the same page. I'm curious though, what makes you uncomfortable opening up your feelings to your partner? If you can sleep together you can also open up about your emotions or expectations out of this. The matter is how you approach the topic meaning no possessive, dramatic or demanding language. I've watched a couple of Matthew Hussey videos and he explains very well this vulnerability that can work to your advantage.

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27 minutes ago, Popi33 said:

Well yes correct, I needed it so I asked and explained that for example open wouldn't work for me and I wanted to make it clear going forward. He could have agreed and felt the same or not and explain that he doesn't want a relationship. I just find that things are working themselves out once you put your cards on the table, it's a good way to assess if you're on the same page and opens a discussion. But you do it once, I don't intend to discuss it again at the moment as now it is pointless. Every situation is different and your friends might be right or wrong cause not everything grows organically or naturally taking a pace without some clear indications, like "hell yeah, want to be together let's do it". Tbh I asked and told myself would only move forward if response is as enthusiastic as this and it was. Anything less, I'd be like okay we aren't on the same page. I'm curious though, what makes you uncomfortable opening up your feelings to your partner? If you can sleep together you can also open up about your emotions or expectations out of this. The matter is how you approach the topic meaning no possessive, dramatic or demanding language. I've watched a couple of Matthew Hussey videos and he explains very well this vulnerability that can work to your advantage.

I am mostly not comfortable because I've never done it (explicitly agreeing with a woman that we are in an exclusive relationship) and because I think it will be unnecessary (will be like asking about the obvious which will be strange; "obvious" of course being highly subjective here).

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7 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I am mostly not comfortable because I've never done it (explicitly agreeing with a woman that we are in an exclusive relationship) and because I think it will be unnecessary (will be like asking about the obvious which will be strange; "obvious" of course being highly subjective here).

Yes because obvious is abstractly defined and acquires a meaning once stated, you'd be only stating the obvious if all signs indicate that towards that direction- If there's even a nuance of doubt for either of you (which you don't know for sure because you haven't discussed it) then its not obvious and is subject to interpretation. I find that being honest with your feelings without demanding time and space doesn't make you look weak but strong. It shows strength and courage to admit that you like someone and want to be with them, there's always the chance that they'd say no even if you're having the best time. I think that you're both playing it safe and prefer to be in your comfort zone as none of you wants to ask hard questions, just to assume things and leave them open to interpretation in case someone of you ***s it up. Your call of course.

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1 hour ago, Popi33 said:

Yes because obvious is abstractly defined and acquires a meaning once stated, you'd be only stating the obvious if all signs indicate that towards that direction- If there's even a nuance of doubt for either of you (which you don't know for sure because you haven't discussed it) then its not obvious and is subject to interpretation. I find that being honest with your feelings without demanding time and space doesn't make you look weak but strong. It shows strength and courage to admit that you like someone and want to be with them, there's always the chance that they'd say no even if you're having the best time. I think that you're both playing it safe and prefer to be in your comfort zone as none of you wants to ask hard questions, just to assume things and leave them open to interpretation in case someone of you ***s it up. Your call of course.

You sound reasonable. There may be that factor in play, too - (fear of) appearing weak. Not because of admitting that I like her and want to be with her but because of looking incompetent and clueless. Actions here may speak louder than words and I while I can't be 100% sure (we didn't specifically discuss it and even if we did - in theory, she could still lie to me, I guess), I am confident enough to take it for granted. Which, in theory, leaves opportunity to get burned, of course.

I just feel that if I ask her, she will confirm and it will be needless instant gratification for me. Just like that thing with the ex when I asked her if she was going to cut ties with him after the vacation and she answered that she'd already given him a call and informed him about us. So I trust her much more now and her behaviour doesn't make me have doubts (she's even bringing more and more personal stuff into my place lately :D ).

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8 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I find that being honest with your feelings without demanding time and space doesn't make you look weak but strong.

Yes, it shows balance, which is a deep, nuanced strength.

Edited by Jibralta
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On 7/2/2021 at 6:05 AM, LoreliFinn said:

I'm afraid you have made this girl your whole world and are  needlessly over analyzing every interaction or response from her.

Do you have other friends at all?  I'm concerned that if not, you will be very devastated if things don't work out with this one.  

 

I didn't read the entire thread, and I think it's great to ask for advice, but maybe you should not over analyze one woman this much, do you have friends/social life?

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48 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I didn't read the entire thread, and I think it's great to ask for advice, but maybe you should not over analyze one woman this much, do you have friends/social life?

Yes, I do have. But sometimes it doesn’t help much :D

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34 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Yes, I do have. But sometimes it doesn’t help much :D

I don't mean it in a bad way, I used to overanalyze every guy I'd go on a date or text with, and now that I do it less, I feel better 🙂

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3 hours ago, kim42 said:

I don't mean it in a bad way, I used to overanalyze every guy I'd go on a date or text with, and now that I do it less, I feel better 🙂

No, I didn’t say you mean it in a bad way : ) I have friends, like I said, but that doesn’t help me much when I start analyzing and getting insecure, for example. It takes all of my brain capacity.

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The regular update.

We spent the weekend together. I guess we have some progress towards that exclusivity goal :D because I heard her telling her mom on the phone "...I am with my boyfriend...".

She raised the summer vacation issue. It turned out that she'd been more and more concerned lately and she was thinking a lot about it. She told me that she really feared that I could freak out during her stay there and that I could change my mind about the appropriateness of the situation (and about our relationship altogether). She said "I am afraid that when I get back here, I may find a completely different person. You might have changed your mind about us and don't accept this thing anymore. But I assure you 1000% that there won't be anything to worry about, please promise me that you will be OK and you won't flip out. I want you to trust me.". I told her that I trust her and that she was more and more showing me with actions that i could rely on her so there wasn't anything to be afraid of. She wasn't sure that I trust her but I did my best to be convincing enough. She said that she knew the vacation thing was not so appropriate and that I was not OK with it but I told her that it was not that big of a deal for me, I could live with it.

And I am continuing the battle with the automatic thoughts :D 

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I really like how open and thoughtful she was with you.  Yes the automatic thoughts are pesky and over the decades I've had to deal with those but in different contexts.  But yes I can relate and I'm sorry you're experiencing that.  I came up with tools -and still do - to make sure those thoughts stay on the periphery and do not ruin the moment or my time or whatever.  I had to do that a lot the last 5 days while we were on a road trip.  Mostly with great success.  I wish you success.  I understand her concerns but on balance it's impressive how she handled her concerns and sharing them with you.

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16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I really like how open and thoughtful she was with you.  Yes the automatic thoughts are pesky and over the decades I've had to deal with those but in different contexts.  But yes I can relate and I'm sorry you're experiencing that.  I came up with tools -and still do - to make sure those thoughts stay on the periphery and do not ruin the moment or my time or whatever.  I had to do that a lot the last 5 days while we were on a road trip.  Mostly with great success.  I wish you success.  I understand her concerns but on balance it's impressive how she handled her concerns and sharing them with you.

Thanks! So her attitude in that case was a positive one, right? I really appreciate her concerns and I think I managed to calm her down that nothing bad would happen and I would not be changing my opinion so she was free to enjoy herself on the vacation.

The automatic thoughts are really annoying and when searching through the internet, I decided that I might benefit from a CBT so I intend to find a good specialist in the area. The insecurity and self-rejection become more and more irrational given how things are progressing. It just doesn't make sense :classic_wacko:

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2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Thanks! So her attitude in that case was a positive one, right? I really appreciate her concerns and I think I managed to calm her down that nothing bad would happen and I would not be changing my opinion so she was free to enjoy herself on the vacation.

The automatic thoughts are really annoying and when searching through the internet, I decided that I might benefit from a CBT so I intend to find a good specialist in the area. The insecurity and self-rejection become more and more irrational given how things are progressing. It just doesn't make sense :classic_wacko:

Feelings aren't facts and often don't make sense.  Two separate things here. Yes things are objectively progressing.  But your emotions and ability to notice your feelings yet choose a reaction that permits the progression hasn't caught up yet partly because you could benefit from therapy and partly because this is a new relationship where already you two have been at odds on basic issues like trust and your live together dealbreakers. A lot for a brand new relationship to take.

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13 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Feelings aren't facts and often don't make sense.  Two separate things here. Yes things are objectively progressing.  But your emotions and ability to notice your feelings yet choose a reaction that permits the progression hasn't caught up yet partly because you could benefit from therapy and partly because this is a new relationship where already you two have been at odds on basic issues like trust and your live together dealbreakers. A lot for a brand new relationship to take.

Yeah, trying to make sense of feelings is a "flaw" of my rational mind. Like you said - oftentimes they can't be compared to facts.

"your emotions and ability to notice your feelings yet choose a reaction that permits the progression hasn't caught up yet" - can you please explain in simple terms? I am not sure I can understand that fully.

BTW trust is less of an issue now. We were discussing our opinions on exes yesterday and she said that her most recent bf had contacted her (sending some funny picture) and that she hadn't heard from him in a year or so (looking me straight in the eyes). She said that it was always like that - those people somehow sense when you're taken and they appear out of the blue. She was curious to know why I was against keeping exes in the picture while not being "jealous" of uknown men but I couldn't pinpoint the exact reason/s (other than the common history of both persons or something like the "old flames never die" cliche...). It turned out that this particular ex had contacted her 3 or 4 or 5 weeks ago asking her about her vacation plans for the summer or something like that so she'd lied to me couple of minutes earlier. She seemed a little bit upset and said that she shouldn't tell me that but she wanted to be honest. So I guess it's still not the whole truth...

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3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

"your emotions and ability to notice your feelings yet choose a reaction that permits the progression hasn't caught up yet"

I think she means that you react before you think.

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2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I think she means that you react before you think.

Ah, I see. Does it mean that I'm like that in every situation or was it only about the living together and trust issues?

I try to not act upon my feelings but it doesn't work every time. It's a conscious effort and I may be not so good at it but there's a progress in our relationship so I guess I am doing more things right than wrong? Or she may be patient enough?

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2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I think she means that you react before you think.

Not really - I mean that his feelings of security don't match the objective progression he sees - and this is either because he needs counseling and/or because beneath the surface what seems to be really isn't, or the progression hasn't been long enough yet since this is a new relationship.

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32 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Ah, I see. Does it mean that I'm like that in every situation or was it only about the living together and trust issues?

I try to not act upon my feelings but it doesn't work every time. It's a conscious effort and I may be not so good at it but there's a progress in our relationship so I guess I am doing more things right than wrong? Or she may be patient enough?

Sorry.  There's no trying.  Just doing and not doing.  Either you choose to react, or react a certain way, or you don't.  For example when I feel myself getting frustrated with my son I already have an arsenal of tools in reaction choices -because I work on that in advance.  For me those tools include:  walking away/putting in headphones sometimes, washing my hands and noticing the bubbles, stretching out the fingers on my hand or placing them on a flat surface to redirect energy, telling my son "I am feeling frustrated and I cannot be with your right now if you continue to ____".  Sometimes I do 4-7-8 breathing. 

I was terrified last week as we drove through a blinding rain and hail storm.  But my son could see me sitting next to him in the back and I knew I had to stay calm for him.  I had to.  Not "trying" - I wanted to freak out, cry, shake, etc but he needed me to be his rock. So did my husband who was driving -he needed silence, calm, to focus.

  So I went to my arsenal of tools and chose 4-7-8 breathing and we held hands ,but calmly so he couldn't feel how terrified I was.  No trying because it was the moment where I had to show him I wasn't going to freak out and give in to the terrifying situation.  It worked.  It was really hard but it worked.  Because I had my arsenal of tools ready to choose a reaction.

 I don't give myself "well I tried not to yell/raise my voice but it just got too hard'.  Nope.  Doing or not doing.  But you have to have the tools/mantras ready in advance that you go to right away.

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