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Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me


bbogdanov
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36 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

It’s just something that I haven’t done and I think it is not necessary, it happens naturally.

I get that and since you’re already having sex at least clarify that you’re monogamous.  And exclusive because you’ve already learned you two differ- until she had her epiphany- on keeping in touch with exes.  As far as staying in touch you’ve been dating a very short time.  It’s not a long term relationship and you don’t share a home or property or pets or kids.  No need to be in her space like that when she’s away.  Like I said be transparent and tell her you hope she has a blast and safe travels- and certainly respond if she reaches out.  Let her be away, get away and perhaps miss her new boyfriend a bit. 

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58 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

You’re right, I have to show her that I trust her whatever it costs me.

Lesson learned here, a similar person will indeed be a better option. I won’t stop dating her because of those differences but it would be really easier if there weren’t such issues… That’s what I wondered about communication - if I change my texting habits she may suspect I am playing games, for example?

Not if you’re transparent and then she’ll see how thoughtful and giving you are.  Giving someone space is often really thoughtful.  Neediness is self absorbed. 

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1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

You’re right, I have to show her that I trust her whatever it costs me.

Lesson learned here, a similar person will indeed be a better option. I won’t stop dating her because of those differences but it would be really easier if there weren’t such issues… That’s what I wondered about communication - if I change my texting habits she may suspect I am playing games, for example?

When there are such issues this early on in my humble opinion it’s better to move on as opposed to get more attached.  I like what Rose said about effortlessly. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I tried to be comfortable and understanding but it didn’t work for me. So I had to tell her and get it off my chest. Good thing is that she shared my opinion, there was just some misunderstanding between us.

Any time you try to be comfortable with something that you're not comfortable with, you create anxiety for yourself. You also let yourself down. Keep it simple. Get honest about what you're ok with and stick to it. You will feel so much better. You will also weed out unsuitable partners that way. 

Also, you don't really know yet whether she shares your opinion or not. She might want to share your opinion, but that just might be wishful thinking on her part. If you find that hard to accept, just think back to that time when you tried to be comfortable with something that you weren't comfortable with. Didn't that just happen? Well, it can happen in both directions.

5 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I will hold her accountable for severing ties with him. I just don’t know how and when. Wouldn’t it be pressuring if I remind her about her promise and ask her if she’s already cut ties? And what if I do it once and everything is fine (she’s cut ties with him). Should I monitor things periodically or should I assume that she will keep her promise indefinitely?

I think it's going to have to be something that unfolds over time. You have to wait and see how things play out. It's a leap of faith. And you could end up very disappointed. But you will also end up disappointed if you preemptively pounce on her before you have evidence that she's betrayed you. You have to put things into perspective. What's the worst that could happen if you allow yourself to become vulnerable?

Edited by Jibralta
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How do you know she shares your belief that you don't have to discuss being exclusive or in a committed relationship?  

I'm afraid your assumption that she believes you two are in a committed relationship might not be accurate.

Are you unwilling to discuss it with her because you're afraid she'll say no?

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8 hours ago, LaHermes said:

You really do have to address all this second-guessing, OP.  You'll drive yourself out of your mind. L. 

It is quite natural to miss someone, but it is entirely unhealthy to obsess and ruminate to this degree. 

Just because YOU haven't done it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.  I have no idea what you mean by the phrase "it happens naturally". 

Why second-guessing? I asked what I should do because going to extremes is never a good thing, I suppose - texting her all the time vs not texting her at all. The latter was suggested here (with the exception of when she initiates contact) and I asked if it would be appropriate. Wondering about that will not drive me nuts, I am genuinely interested in learning the most suitable approach in the situation.

And never have I said that I will obsess when I miss her, where did you get that from? Batya33 just said that it's good for me to let her miss me a little bit.

I asked a close friend of mine and he shared my opinion about "the talk". I don't say it's the norm (or that it's not), it just works for me and I don't need reassurance that we are exclusive (there's at least one thing that I don't need reassurance for :D ). I just know and feel that we are only dating each other and it's obvious from what I am observing. Why ask then? I guess she can ask me, too, if she wanted to know, after all she doesn't know if I am dating other people or not, right? That's what I mean by "it happens naturally". And even if there were other dating prospects in the picture for any of us, they would have fell off already. We can hardly date any other person given that we spend much time together lately, it will be physically difficult at the very least.

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8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I get that and since you’re already having sex at least clarify that you’re monogamous.  And exclusive because you’ve already learned you two differ- until she had her epiphany- on keeping in touch with exes.  As far as staying in touch you’ve been dating a very short time.  It’s not a long term relationship and you don’t share a home or property or pets or kids.  No need to be in her space like that when she’s away.  Like I said be transparent and tell her you hope she has a blast and safe travels- and certainly respond if she reaches out.  Let her be away, get away and perhaps miss her new boyfriend a bit. 

Please see my above post answering to LaHermes that explains my way of thinking about it : ) Us being monogamous now is not something that I doubt. She's told me that she doesn't have sex easily (and I can confirm from experience) and I don't think she's a woman of easy virtue. I trust her in that respect, she seems a decent woman (with all her flaws). And she hasn't had an epiphany about keeping in touch with exes, there was just some misunderstanding. She knew she would cease contact when in a relationship, she said it was a matter of principle. I will let her be away when she is on vacation, I don't have problem with that (and I will need time and space for myself, too). The trip is in August, I think.

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8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Not if you’re transparent and then she’ll see how thoughtful and giving you are.  Giving someone space is often really thoughtful.  Neediness is self absorbed. 

I see. When I wish her have a good time I will let her know that I will be there for her (lest she flip out and become insecure or think I am playing games or whatever) but won't bother her, right? 

 

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8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

When there are such issues this early on in my humble opinion it’s better to move on as opposed to get more attached.  I like what Rose said about effortlessly. 

Those issues turned out to not be so big after all, no? I mean - we both agreed that an ex has no place in her life so we are both on the same page about it.

Yeah, she lied to me and hid the truth in the beginning but it would become known sooner or later. I may be excusing her but I try to get in her shoes - we are still strangers, we don't know where this is going and it can end anytime. So she is waiting for some point where she can be more or less sure because burning bridges with the ex prematurely will be a lose-lose situation then (and there's a planned vacation in the picture, too). If it were me, I will be upfront honest from the beginning (and I won't even have an ex in my life in the first place) but that's where we have differences with her. And that's what may determine if we can be together or not.

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7 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Any time you try to be comfortable with something that you're not comfortable with, you create anxiety for yourself. You also let yourself down. Keep it simple. Get honest about what you're ok with and stick to it. You will feel so much better. You will also weed out unsuitable partners that way. 

Also, you don't really know yet whether she shares your opinion or not. She might want to share your opinion, but that just might be wishful thinking on her part. If you find that hard to accept, just think back to that time when you tried to be comfortable with something that you weren't comfortable with. Didn't that just happen? Well, it can happen in both directions.

I think it's going to have to be something that unfolds over time. You have to wait and see how things play out. It's a leap of faith. And you could end up very disappointed. But you will also end up disappointed if you preemptively pounce on her before you have evidence that she's betrayed you. You have to put things into perspective. What's the worst that could happen if you allow yourself to become vulnerable?

You're right. I usually don't try to be comfortable with something that doesn't work for me. I like her and that may have played a role in my softening towards her that evening. And her explanation really calmed me down for the moment. But I went back to my normal the next day and I decided that I couldn't accept it.

That's when we learned that we shared the same opinion, we just hadn't discussed it explicitly and I'd assumed that she was going to keep some contact with the ex while she told me that it was out of question and I didn't have to worry about it. I really believed her when she said it and I don't have reason not to (although that may sound naive). You are right, though, that there is a possibility of her wanting to share my opinion (wishful thinking) but I do want to trust her in that respect.

Waiting and seeing how things play out - sounds good to me! I could end up disappointed, that's for sure. The same goes for both scenarios, like you said. The worst that could happen if I allow myself to be vulnerable is to get burned. That's what I try to prevent but I guess I am too cautious.

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7 hours ago, boltnrun said:

How do you know she shares your belief that you don't have to discuss being exclusive or in a committed relationship?  

I'm afraid your assumption that she believes you two are in a committed relationship might not be accurate.

Are you unwilling to discuss it with her because you're afraid she'll say no?

I don't know if she shares my belief, of course. It's just my way of doing things.

I don't fear that she will say no, I'm just not comfortable asking her (or any other girl) because I feel it would be like asking about the obvious.

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6 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

And never have I said that I will obsess when I miss her, where did you get that from?

I said, repeat, that it is natural to miss someone.   Obsessing is a different matter and that is what I am getting from reading your posts. 

Here is just one example:

 

5 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I see. When I wish her have a good time I will let her know that I will be there for her (lest she flip out and become insecure or think I am playing games or whatever) but won't bother her, right? 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

I said, repeat, that it is natural to miss someone.   Obsessing is a different matter and that is what I am getting from reading your posts. 

Here is just one example:

 

 

So you mean that I obsess over what/how/when to do something, right? I thought that you put obsessing and missing in some connection - like, for example, that I will be obsessing over her when she is on vacation because I will miss her (something similar to longing). Bear in mind that english is not my native tongue and sometimes I may be thinking of a slightly different thing but not use the exactly correct word for it (there can be some nuances), I do my best to represent my thoughts and feelings.

You've got a point, the example you provided may seem strange and display obsession over things. I think it's for couple of reasons (not necessarily healthy or justified ones):

- I may approach dating more like a "science" and try to learn what works best in a particular situation in order to maximize my chances of success

- I don't want to screw things up by doing something stupid because I like her (this one is related to the previous one).

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6 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I see. When I wish her have a good time I will let her know that I will be there for her (lest she flip out and become insecure or think I am playing games or whatever) but won't bother her, right? 

 

No. You’re not her therapist. Just wish her a good time.  As I wrote above how I would do it. She’s an adult and will contact you as needed. She’s not dating others. But is she keeping her options open or does she consider herself exclusive and not pursuing anyone else or being willing to meet someone for coffee ?  Just because she’s not dating today doesn’t mean she’s not open to dating someone else. 
women of character and integrity still have causal sex and multiple partners.  I didn’t have casual sex but didn’t think I had more virtue than someone who did. Since there’s an std risk perhaps confirm monogamy. 

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I think you've outgrown this thread. 

You have trust established between the both of you and your misunderstandings have evened out. She's agreed not to have any other contact with her ex as she too believes it's inappropriate. You're comfortable at the stage you're both at now without having to push for exclusivity. You're enjoying it the way it is now so what else is there? 

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2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

No. You’re not her therapist. Just wish her a good time.  As I wrote above how I would do it. She’s an adult and will contact you as needed. She’s not dating others. But is she keeping her options open or does she consider herself exclusive and not pursuing anyone else or being willing to meet someone for coffee ?  Just because she’s not dating today doesn’t mean she’s not open to dating someone else. 
women of character and integrity still have causal sex and multiple partners.  I didn’t have casual sex but didn’t think I had more virtue than someone who did. Since there’s an std risk perhaps confirm monogamy. 

I don’t think that she is keeping her options open but I can’t know for sure. BTW she is on a weekend vacation with a friend of hers and her daughter. She texts me, sends pictures and I reply but I won’t initiate conversation, like you adviced. And honestly, there isn’t much to discuss via text. 

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39 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

I think you've outgrown this thread. 

You have trust established between the both of you and your misunderstandings have evened out. She's agreed not to have any other contact with her ex as she too believes it's inappropriate. You're comfortable at the stage you're both at now without having to push for exclusivity. You're enjoying it the way it is now so what else is there? 

Described like that, it seems everything is perfect and like in the movies :D I admit that things are more or less fine now. The topic was originally about my insecurity and there’s still a little bit of it in me. I guess it has to do with my trust, which is not 100% there.

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Just throwing my two cents regarding the not texting back right away thing..

It actually makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. An attractive woman will have multiple men chasing her at once...

So subtle tests like taking longer to respond will filter out the guys even if on a subconscious level who are either

1) potentially dangerous and abusive that get angry over little things.

2) not high value which is demonstrated by a scarcity mindset instead of abundance mindset 

Think about it. If a guy is cool, calm and collected he won’t get offended easily....the guy with many choices with women has an abundance of women chasing him so if one doesn’t take time to respond right away it’s not such a big deal as he has options...

Sure it’s annoying..but if you start saying to a girl “why didn’t you text me right away? I’m not good enough for you? Why are you not answering my calls?” This would turn off many women..


Why? Because a majority women are attracted to confidence 

 

The best approach at the start of dating IMO is to have a non-attached approach. Focus more on having a nice good time and having a great life with or without such person. You have options and you want to know if she is right for YOU. 

 

Anyways looks like she’s into you anyways so no worries there 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I may approach dating more like a "science" and try to learn what works best in a particular situation in order to maximize my chances of success

Oh boy, a science. L.   I can tell you something, you won't be maximising anything if you carry on like this!   Dating isn't a science, and it is a far, far simpler affair than the convoluted business you seem to think it is. Is there any chance you could just stop over-thinking?  Just even for one day.

 

As Mical said:

8 minutes ago, mical said:

a majority women are attracted to confidence 

 

You can be certain of that. 

And cool, calm and collected is the way to go!

9 minutes ago, mical said:

a guy is cool, calm and collected

 

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1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

I don’t think that she is keeping her options open but I can’t know for sure. BTW she is on a weekend vacation with a friend of hers and her daughter. She texts me, sends pictures and I reply but I won’t initiate conversation, like you adviced. And honestly, there isn’t much to discuss via text. 

I didn't advise  that at all.  I advised you to tell her in advance you don't want to interfere with her time away so you wish her a great time and happy to chat if she wishes.

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1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

I don’t think that she is keeping her options open but I can’t know for sure. BTW she is on a weekend vacation with a friend of hers and her daughter. She texts me, sends pictures and I reply but I won’t initiate conversation, like you adviced. And honestly, there isn’t much to discuss via text. 

You can by asking her.  Couples who are exclusively dating don't keep their options open.  It means tomorrow she could meet someone who she finds attractive and accept a date without being disloyal to you.  So right now she is not dating anyone else.  That is true- trust that.  And that could change in a heartbeat because you're not exclusive.

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I don't get why you flat out refuse to ask her to be exclusive. Who cares if it's not your "culture" to do so? All this assuming is contributing to your anxiety. She might think it's sweet and romantic if you ask her to be your exclusive lady and offer to be her exclusive man.

I still think it's fear based. You're afraid of the answer.

I strongly encourage you to do so. "Culture" be damned.

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3 hours ago, mical said:

Just throwing my two cents regarding the not texting back right away thing..

It actually makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. An attractive woman will have multiple men chasing her at once...

So subtle tests like taking longer to respond will filter out the guys even if on a subconscious level who are either

1) potentially dangerous and abusive that get angry over little things.

2) not high value which is demonstrated by a scarcity mindset instead of abundance mindset 

Think about it. If a guy is cool, calm and collected he won’t get offended easily....the guy with many choices with women has an abundance of women chasing him so if one doesn’t take time to respond right away it’s not such a big deal as he has options...

Sure it’s annoying..but if you start saying to a girl “why didn’t you text me right away? I’m not good enough for you? Why are you not answering my calls?” This would turn off many women..


Why? Because a majority women are attracted to confidence 

 

The best approach at the start of dating IMO is to have a non-attached approach. Focus more on having a nice good time and having a great life with or without such person. You have options and you want to know if she is right for YOU. 

 

Anyways looks like she’s into you anyways so no worries there 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand that thing with the evolutionary perspective, seems logical. But aren’t some of those tests a game? Not that it is bad per se and I guess playing games is the norm or not? To weed out unsuitable prospects. It’s really annoying, like you said, but I won’t tell a girl those things you quoted, that’s for sure :D They may come up in my mind but I won’t verbalize them. It’s like a suicide. Non-attached approach is a good thing to have and I think I had something close to it in the very beginning but after several good dates it went out of the window…

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3 hours ago, LaHermes said:

Oh boy, a science. L.   I can tell you something, you won't be maximising anything if you carry on like this!   Dating isn't a science, and it is a far, far simpler affair than the convoluted business you seem to think it is. Is there any chance you could just stop over-thinking?  Just even for one day.

 

As Mical said:

You can be certain of that. 

And cool, calm and collected is the way to go!

 

Of course it is far simpler. If I didn’t have those issues and flaws, I wouldn’t use the help this forum provides. I think that I act cool and calm on dates, that’s not a problem. What happens between them is more of an issue.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

" But aren’t some of those tests a game? Not that it is bad per se and I guess playing games is the norm or not? "

Actually, I don't even know if it is a game..this is something I thought about and can't quite figure out :D I just know it backfires if you question it. Happened to me in the past when I didn't know any better :D

Anyways, this is probably not the best advice, but if someone really annoys me and I'm not feeling like such a nice person that day, I would probably do back the same but 30-50% more...

so if someone takes 2 hours to respond and I know they read my message and they do this REPEATEDLY, I'll maybe do the same but take 3 hours or just wait until the next day for fun to see the reaction... yeah maybe not so nice :D but whatever

 

 

Edited by mical
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