Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

They way I'm reading this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you're wanting to get to the destination already without all the preamble of dating or the inbetween wondering whether someone is decisively into you and in a relationship with you.

How would you feel if I told you that there are no guarantees in relationships either and the preconceived destination or "outcome" is a misnomer or a delusion or false sense of security? If she says she's very much into you and is showing you plenty of confirmation, yet next month she stops talking to you or wanting to meet you, what was all the affirmation prior supposed to mean?

How comfortable are you working through rough spots in a relationship or disagreeing on matters? Would you be willing to walk away from a mutually un-satisfying relationship or one that may be one-sided, foregoing that "outcome" you prized for so long?

My point is people change regardless of what kind of outcome you're looking for or communication style so take your time and don't look for or push someone into wanting to be with you so quickly. You can do everything right and it still doesn't work out so leave room for that. Focus less on the outcome and more on the situation as it is and the person with you. If you're not happy with her then don't be afraid to date someone else. 

For your situation I think it's too early to tell but if the vibes just aren't there don't cling to the "opportunity" or "outcome" that may not be realistic or even enjoyable to you. If you're not having fun, the whole point is lost too.

 

You’re right. I do enjoy the dates but it’s like I want to reach the destination (which, if I think logically, is not even a destination because once you are in a relationship it doesn’t mean you can do nothing, it is a lifetime work…) because that would give me some security and peace.

There are no guarantees whatsoever, you’re totally right. There is a possibility that in every moment a person can end a relationship.

I would work through rough spots in a relationship but once I am in such. For now we are just dating and I don’t know if that work is applicable to the situation (I am not sure I understood that fully)? I want to tell you that I’d be willing to walk away from unsatisfying relationship but I cannot be 100% sure because of my mindset (the “prize”). I guess it depends on the degree of un-satisfaction.

Focusing less on the outcome is a good goal and I’d like to achieve it but I am wondering what the practical steps towards it are. I am happy in her presence but afterwards I am left wondering what/how/when etc.

What is meant by vibes here? I do have fun on the dates and I like her.

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Or the negatives of relying on said technology to gauge someone's interest in you, or to predict an "outcome".

Someone could be an extreme texter but not be into you at all. 

Think about what you'd prefer. A light texter who is sincerely interested in dating and getting to know you better IN PERSON? Or a frequent texter who is less interested?

You’ve got a good point! I don’t know whether I rely on the said technology as such or it’s just a medium that can convey some affirmation for me. I don’t want a woman I am dating to be extreme texter but at least to show me that she thinks about me occasionally (every other day or so). A simple “how are you” or something like that will be enough. 

[LaHermes]

7 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

that doesn't help me be less needy and frightened

I will be brief, OP.  Needy, frightened combined with anxiety (which you mentioned) is the total passion-killer.

Emotions are just emotions, which are within your control. 

[boltnrun]

28 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

You’ve got a good point! I don’t know whether I rely on the said technology as such or it’s just a medium that can convey some affirmation for me. I don’t want a woman I am dating to be extreme texter but at least to show me that she thinks about me occasionally (every other day or so). A simple “how are you” or something like that will be enough. 

"How are you?" is kind of lame, don't you agree?

You have to decide what's most important to you; a woman who sends inane texts or a woman who is happily dating you but who isn't attached to her phone or who isn't interested in sending pointless texts.

Also explore why words on a tiny screen are so important to you that you can't even enjoy your dating experience.

[sadchick83]

BBOG,

I totally get you.  We have a lot of similarities. I have had guys I’m not even sure I have liked and as soon as they start cutting me off, I get hooked and anxious.  So, the best thing you can do is follow something spiritual like “The Secret.”

With The Secret you basically ask the universe for what you want, be grateful and although corny, it actually works for letting things fall into place as they should. It also kills anxious thoughts as a result. 

Or, even better, start to lightly date other women until you and your girl are a sure thing. You won’t be as desperate when another woman is into you, even if she is not as perfect as your girl.  Your emotions are in your control if you want them to be.  Distract yourself with a short trip, or have an old friend visit.

You might also want to look up the term “limerance” as you may have a mild form of this condition.  I admit I have it a bit, but as soon as I like another guy, I completely forget about the guy before him.

 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

By that phrase I meant that I catch myself being too invested in the outcome of the dating with this girl (or any other girl I like for that purpose). Instead of dating freely and without expecting anything (just to enjoy myself) I am stressing over every step and somehow put the horse before the cart.

You can do both.  I think it's nonsense to try to tell yourself not to be invested in the outcome if the purpose of dating is a long term relationship.  If your purpose is simply to have one date at a time with no interest in whether this could be long term that's different -that would be a valid purpose and then you wouldn't have expectations.  But there's a balance.  I did this by reminding myself that each date was the last unless there was a time/place plan for a next date.  If the date ended -and we were not yet exclusive/dating regularly - and there was no plan for a next date he was off my radar unless and until he called me to ask me out (or sometimes, depending on how long I would do the asking).  

Are you really dating just to enjoy yourself?  Partly of course.  But not totally. It's like those silly "be happy being single!!".  Well I was happy -I had a fun, fulfilling life.  But I knew -and I was totally honest with myself -that my goals were marriage and family, and that if I didn't meet those goals no, I wouldn't be content being single forever.  It was my truth.  So when I dated of course I "lived in the moment" and that coexisted with me thinking about whether that person had any future potential.  So even if a person was loads of fun if there was a reason we'd be incompatible for the long term, buh bye.  And yes of course I felt insecure, wondered if he'd call again -but it's a balance -head in the clouds/feet on the ground.  

[Tinydance]

7 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

You’re right. I do enjoy the dates but it’s like I want to reach the destination (which, if I think logically, is not even a destination because once you are in a relationship it doesn’t mean you can do nothing, it is a lifetime work…) because that would give me some security and peace.

There are no guarantees whatsoever, you’re totally right. There is a possibility that in every moment a person can end a relationship.

I would work through rough spots in a relationship but once I am in such. For now we are just dating and I don’t know if that work is applicable to the situation (I am not sure I understood that fully)? I want to tell you that I’d be willing to walk away from unsatisfying relationship but I cannot be 100% sure because of my mindset (the “prize”). I guess it depends on the degree of un-satisfaction.

Focusing less on the outcome is a good goal and I’d like to achieve it but I am wondering what the practical steps towards it are. I am happy in her presence but afterwards I am left wondering what/how/when etc.

What is meant by vibes here? I do have fun on the dates and I like her.

That is absolutely right, it is lifetime work to have a relationship or marriage.

The only advice I can add is maybe try not to like a girl you just started dating too much, you know? It's OK to like her but just live your own life too. Don't make all your time about her. Go on the dates with her and enjoy the time but don't message her too much or ask her out too much. Show her you are not desperate and won't always be available to her or chasing her. Keep reminding yourself too that while you like this girl, if it didn't work out there are still lots of other women out there. That can enjoy your magic fingers 😜

[bbogdanov]

9 hours ago, LaHermes said:

I will be brief, OP.  Needy, frightened combined with anxiety (which you mentioned) is the total passion-killer.

Emotions are just emotions, which are within your control. 

Of course it is. That's why I am looking for advices : ) Emotions cannot be controlled, though (and they shoudln't be, should they?). I won't pour out all this sh*t onto her, of course, I try to cope with it myself, although it may sometimes be seen through (I try not to).

[bbogdanov]

8 hours ago, boltnrun said:

"How are you?" is kind of lame, don't you agree?

You have to decide what's most important to you; a woman who sends inane texts or a woman who is happily dating you but who isn't attached to her phone or who isn't interested in sending pointless texts.

Also explore why words on a tiny screen are so important to you that you can't even enjoy your dating experience.

It may sound lame but sometimes it can show appreciation and genuine interest, like you care and think about somebody and it can even help with bonding (and it can be any other message that conveys such things, not necessarily "how are you").

I don't know how to decide between both these options - are things black and white? I don't want to take it to extremes, maybe something in the middle.

Words on a tiny screen are important to me because I am used to it with all my previous gfs (including the last one which I was with for 2,5 years). And it's not the words or the screen that matters, it's the attitude, it's the reaching out and showing interest.

[bbogdanov]

7 hours ago, sadchick83 said:

BBOG,

I totally get you.  We have a lot of similarities. I have had guys I’m not even sure I have liked and as soon as they start cutting me off, I get hooked and anxious.  So, the best thing you can do is follow something spiritual like “The Secret.”

With The Secret you basically ask the universe for what you want, be grateful and although corny, it actually works for letting things fall into place as they should. It also kills anxious thoughts as a result. 

Or, even better, start to lightly date other women until you and your girl are a sure thing. You won’t be as desperate when another woman is into you, even if she is not as perfect as your girl.  Your emotions are in your control if you want them to be.  Distract yourself with a short trip, or have an old friend visit.

You might also want to look up the term “limerance” as you may have a mild form of this condition.  I admit I have it a bit, but as soon as I like another guy, I completely forget about the guy before him.

 

I have to research for that "The Secret", I haven't heard of it. Letting things fall into place sounds good to me. I admit trying to force things or be in control maybe because the unknown makes me anxious, I want some security and clarity.

I have no other women to date at the moment but even if I had - I don't feel like I could do it. First dates are exhausting, all that nervousness, trying to see what the other person is really made of, etc. And I fear that I may get distracted from this particular girl and I even feel like it wouldn't be fair to her.

This "limerence" seems to describe to some degree how I feel sometimes but I rarely feel like that. Maybe just with a girl I really like much and it doesn't happen often, I don't fall in love easily.

[bbogdanov]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You can do both.  I think it's nonsense to try to tell yourself not to be invested in the outcome if the purpose of dating is a long term relationship.  If your purpose is simply to have one date at a time with no interest in whether this could be long term that's different -that would be a valid purpose and then you wouldn't have expectations.  But there's a balance.  I did this by reminding myself that each date was the last unless there was a time/place plan for a next date.  If the date ended -and we were not yet exclusive/dating regularly - and there was no plan for a next date he was off my radar unless and until he called me to ask me out (or sometimes, depending on how long I would do the asking).  

Are you really dating just to enjoy yourself?  Partly of course.  But not totally. It's like those silly "be happy being single!!".  Well I was happy -I had a fun, fulfilling life.  But I knew -and I was totally honest with myself -that my goals were marriage and family, and that if I didn't meet those goals no, I wouldn't be content being single forever.  It was my truth.  So when I dated of course I "lived in the moment" and that coexisted with me thinking about whether that person had any future potential.  So even if a person was loads of fun if there was a reason we'd be incompatible for the long term, buh bye.  And yes of course I felt insecure, wondered if he'd call again -but it's a balance -head in the clouds/feet on the ground.  

That thing with the outcome is due to me reading a lot of stuff online from various coaches although some of these things I really find logical and reasonable to me. I do want a long term relationship and not a single date. Deeming every date as the last sounds like a good attitude. Maybe it can relieve some pressure off, I'll see if I can try such a mindset. But doesn't a man being off the radar for you make you go cold? Time goes by and feelings diminish, or not? I don't want to lose momentum.

I was happy being single for a while after breaking up with my ex. I needed some time alone. But overall I want a life with a family and I don't think I can be content being single forever. So I am dating with the purpose of finding "the one" which doesn't exclude me enjoying myself. "head in the clouds/feet on the ground" sounds great!

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

That is absolutely right, it is lifetime work to have a relationship or marriage.

The only advice I can add is maybe try not to like a girl you just started dating too much, you know? It's OK to like her but just live your own life too. Don't make all your time about her. Go on the dates with her and enjoy the time but don't message her too much or ask her out too much. Show her you are not desperate and won't always be available to her or chasing her. Keep reminding yourself too that while you like this girl, if it didn't work out there are still lots of other women out there. That can enjoy your magic fingers 😜

I see what you did there with the last sentence

I rarely like a girl that much but when I do - I don't know what to do, it seems. I continue living my life like before but I do have hard times occasionally. And it always happens after the particular date. The day after it is the hardest and with time passing by I calm down gradually. It's like a sine wave with highs and lows.

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Of course it is. That's why I am looking for advices : ) Emotions cannot be controlled, though (and they shoudln't be, should they?). I won't pour out all this sh*t onto her, of course, I try to cope with it myself, although it may sometimes be seen through (I try not to).

Reactions to emotions can be controlled - huge difference -of course you feel what you feel -you have choices as to how to react.. I had to do that 45 minutes ago with my son so he didn't see me triggered/on my way to losing it. 

I had to choose a reaction when I was panicked and stressed and frustrated at 6am a few days ago when I realized the fridge was left ever so slightly open by my darling husband, who does not get panicked or stressed about those sorts of situations.  I had to choose a reaction at my job when I felt irrationally insecure at times that I wasn't getting enough work/right kind of work/did they like/value me. My best guess- I would not have a healthy marriage, a good job, or certain friends if I gave myself the excuse of "can't control my emotions" and overshared/vented/acted/reacted on impulse to the variety of unpleasant or icky emotions I might have.

Fake it till you make it with her -easy breezy and what Tinydance wrote.  Yes all relationships take work and maintenance but the balance of it shouldn't feel like work in any negative sense.  The work I did in the beginning was to make sure to have my head in the clouds but -my feet on the ground.  To give lots of space for the person to get to know me as me not as some fool in infatuation, to show interest and enthusiasm, to be well read/knowledgeable in what he liked/was interested in (as long as I was slightly interested LOL), to be a fun, well -rounded person who was easy and comfortable to be with.  But without being a doormat

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

That thing with the outcome is due to me reading a lot of stuff online from various coaches although some of these things I really find logical and reasonable to me. I do want a long term relationship and not a single date. Deeming every date as the last sounds like a good attitude. Maybe it can relieve some pressure off, I'll see if I can try such a mindset. But doesn't a man being off the radar for you make you go cold? Time goes by and feelings diminish, or not? I don't want to lose momentum.

I was happy being single for a while after breaking up with my ex. I needed some time alone. But overall I want a life with a family and I don't think I can be content being single forever. So I am dating with the purpose of finding "the one" which doesn't exclude me enjoying myself. "head in the clouds/feet on the ground" sounds great!

Of course not!  I'm being realistic -if there is no date planned .... there is no date -logical fact/truth.  That can change.  Living my life as if I never met him is the healthiest way because then if he calls and asks me out and I'm still interested/available then I'm going to see him again and continue getting to know him.  Why in the world would absence make feelings diminish -typically it's the opposite - and if I "hoped" and "yearned" and "waited" -that would mean I wasn't open to meeting other people to date -if we weren't yet exclusive I wanted to be open to all opportunities because -especially when I was single in my 30s- my goal was marriage and to have the opportunity to try to conceive a child. 

The opportunities decreased as I got older so being hung up on some guy who hadn't yet scored another date with me -no thanks.  Yes, I did show a lot of interest, sometimes I did the asking but mostly in the beginning I showed interest and they did the asking.  Men who were interested in dating me typically tried to see me at least once a week in the beginning unless they were out of town/sick/emergency.

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Reactions to emotions can be controlled - huge difference -of course you feel what you feel -you have choices as to how to react.. I had to do that 45 minutes ago with my son so he didn't see me triggered/on my way to losing it. 

I had to choose a reaction when I was panicked and stressed and frustrated at 6am a few days ago when I realized the fridge was left ever so slightly open by my darling husband, who does not get panicked or stressed about those sorts of situations.  I had to choose a reaction at my job when I felt irrationally insecure at times that I wasn't getting enough work/right kind of work/did they like/value me. My best guess- I would not have a healthy marriage, a good job, or certain friends if I gave myself the excuse of "can't control my emotions" and overshared/vented/acted/reacted on impulse to the variety of unpleasant or icky emotions I might have.

Fake it till you make it with her -easy breezy and what Tinydance wrote.  Yes all relationships take work and maintenance but the balance of it shouldn't feel like work in any negative sense.  The work I did in the beginning was to make sure to have my head in the clouds but -my feet on the ground.  To give lots of space for the person to get to know me as me not as some fool in infatuation, to show interest and enthusiasm, to be well read/knowledgeable in what he liked/was interested in (as long as I was slightly interested LOL), to be a fun, well -rounded person who was easy and comfortable to be with.  But without being a doormat

Ah, reaction to emotions, I get it now! That’s different.

Fake it till you make it is a strategy I am trying to implement. That’s why I am looking for help here - to understand how to cope with my emotions and not pour everything on her.

I have not heard from her for 3 days now and still counting…

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Of course not!  I'm being realistic -if there is no date planned .... there is no date -logical fact/truth.  That can change.  Living my life as if I never met him is the healthiest way because then if he calls and asks me out and I'm still interested/available then I'm going to see him again and continue getting to know him.  Why in the world would absence make feelings diminish -typically it's the opposite - and if I "hoped" and "yearned" and "waited" -that would mean I wasn't open to meeting other people to date -if we weren't yet exclusive I wanted to be open to all opportunities because -especially when I was single in my 30s- my goal was marriage and to have the opportunity to try to conceive a child. 

The opportunities decreased as I got older so being hung up on some guy who hadn't yet scored another date with me -no thanks.  Yes, I did show a lot of interest, sometimes I did the asking but mostly in the beginning I showed interest and they did the asking.  Men who were interested in dating me typically tried to see me at least once a week in the beginning unless they were out of town/sick/emergency.

I asked you because I thought (and I’ve seen such statements) that if somebody doesn’t reach out to you and it is still the beginning of dating (so she/he is not yet hooked up), your feelings can go cold because the interest level is not sufficient enough yet. So the person can move on fast if you don’t keep the fire burning.

[Rose Mosse]

15 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Ah, reaction to emotions, I get it now! That’s different.

Fake it till you make it is a strategy I am trying to implement. That’s why I am looking for help here - to understand how to cope with my emotions and not pour everything on her.

I have not heard from her for 3 days now and still counting…

Are you meaning that she hasn't reached out to you in three days? Or she hasn't responded to a question or text to you in three days? Do you have a date planned this weekend or some time later this week?

If she's agreed to meet you on a date later this week, check in with her the day of the the day prior to confirm and then enjoy the date. Don't worry yourself over second guessing how she feels or what she thinks. Accepting the date means she's interested. 

What I meant by vibes earlier are reading her actions and words and interpreting on your own her level of interest. It is not so complicated. You can keep the desired outcome as a rough guideline of what you want, where you're headed and what you're looking for but being overwhelmed isn't going to help.  Remember, you're both meeting each other to see if you eventually get along. It's not meant to be anything more than that this early on. Take things in stride.

[Batya33]

30 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I asked you because I thought (and I’ve seen such statements) that if somebody doesn’t reach out to you and it is still the beginning of dating (so she/he is not yet hooked up), your feelings can go cold because the interest level is not sufficient enough yet. So the person can move on fast if you don’t keep the fire burning.

Yes.  very true.  And what is also true is that if - this is a fact -if there is no time/place plan for a next date, there is no next date.  That situation can change if one person asks the other person out for another date.  Until that happened I refused to give that person space on my radar.  Why would I?

[boltnrun]

For all you know she could be thinking about you but just doesn't see the need to send you a text telling you.

[bbogdanov]

3 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

Are you meaning that she hasn't reached out to you in three days? Or she hasn't responded to a question or text to you in three days? Do you have a date planned this weekend or some time later this week?

If she's agreed to meet you on a date later this week, check in with her the day of the the day prior to confirm and then enjoy the date. Don't worry yourself over second guessing how she feels or what she thinks. Accepting the date means she's interested. 

What I meant by vibes earlier are reading her actions and words and interpreting on your own her level of interest. It is not so complicated. You can keep the desired outcome as a rough guideline of what you want, where you're headed and what you're looking for but being overwhelmed isn't going to help.  Remember, you're both meeting each other to see if you eventually get along. It's not meant to be anything more than that this early on. Take things in stride.

Our last contact was on Sunday when I sent her a photo of one of the stray dogs I feed and care for (she is a dog lover and a volunteer at the dog shelter here) and we exchanged couple of messages about it. We don’t have a date planned at all, all I know is that she’s supposed to get back in town on Thursday or Friday. 

[bbogdanov]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes.  very true.  And what is also true is that if - this is a fact -if there is no time/place plan for a next date, there is no next date.  That situation can change if one person asks the other person out for another date.  Until that happened I refused to give that person space on my radar.  Why would I?

I get it. But if that person asks you for a date after some time, would you still accept it? Wouldn’t you be not interested if the monentum is lost and you don’t feel it anymore? 

[bbogdanov]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

For all you know she could be thinking about you but just doesn't see the need to send you a text telling you.

Totally possible. I hope she is. I will just be much more calm if she show it to me somehow (not in an explicit way, like I’ve already said).

[boltnrun]

4 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Totally possible. I hope she is. I will just be much more calm if she show it to me somehow (not in an explicit way, like I’ve already said).

If you're going into this expecting or hoping she will "change", that is an exercise in futility. 

If you want a daily texter you will probably do better with someone else.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I get it. But if that person asks you for a date after some time, would you still accept it? Wouldn’t you be not interested if the monentum is lost and you don’t feel it anymore? 

Oh I see -yes I would if I was still interested and available and depending on why.  But my assuming there is no date unless and until one is planned has nothing to do with this.  Sort of an example - when my future husband and I started dating again (we'd been serious in the past) - we didn't start out dating.  We met up for two platonic get togethers.  One was dinner and the next, that weekend I think - 6 days later? Was dinner and theater.  Platonic and I didn't think it was supposed to be a date/wasn't sure.  But I was interested.  I think on that second meeting I brought him some homemade chocolate chip cookies so we emailed about that the next day.  But no plans to see each other again and I knew he'd be going out of town a month later then going back to the city he then lived in after that.  He then didn't contact me to get together the following weekend.  Maybe we emailed once that week about an actor who had a scandal who he'd seen before.  

I acted out of character - and since we weren't dating and I'd known him for over 10 years I emailed him again with some lame excuse for emailing.  Then he called and asked to get together -meaning two weeks from our last meeting.  That night was when he asked if we could get back together.  I never asked him why he went MIA for that long but gleaned from some things he said that he was thinking about whether/when to ask me, if he should, and also he was I think tying up loose ends with an ex plus working his behind off. He never mentioned that I'd contacted him at least twice before he asked me out. It was a non-issue.

We've been together now 16 years total and I still never asked him.  But it was really really hard waiting that out, wondering if he'd ask me out despite knowing he was going back to his city a plane ride away, etc.  I'm so glad I waited, so glad I never told him I was worried and so glad I never asked him what took him so long.  I vented to my friends, to my mother, lol.  (And no social media presence, no mutual friends, no way of figuring it out).  

So I relate to how hard it is to wait, to be patient, to not react to those insecure feelings when you're really into someone.  

[bbogdanov]

9 hours ago, boltnrun said:

If you're going into this expecting or hoping she will "change", that is an exercise in futility. 

If you want a daily texter you will probably do better with someone else.

No, not at all. You said that she could be thinking about me to which I said that I hoped she was.

I don't expect people to change, that is a childish way of thinking I guess.