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My ex/friend won't pay me back


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2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

But thing is I don't think he actually wants this money. I think he's enjoying the power struggle. Like maybe he's enjoying how much it's bothering me because I've messaged him three times now and also that I said it's making me anxious. If I start taking any legal action then he might feel pleasure that he's really getting to me and it bothers me so much.

I think you're overthinking this.  You don't know him well but you do know he has a life and activities.  For all you know he's dashing off a response and not giving it a second thought.  I agree with those who say it's harmful to your health to keep focusing on this unfortunate situation.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Seriously? You would draw up contracts with your friends or demand upfront money about going to different events? The principle of having friends is it's based on trust. Of course he has shown me now that I can't trust him. But before that he said he'd pay back. I don't get suspicious of every single person I know that they'll screw me over.

Based on your history with him you already knew he wasn't a good friend of yours.  I think you were feeling lonely and vulnerable.

Edited by Batya33
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I don't think I'll take any legal action but I will just delete him from Facebook and I'll never speak to him ever again. 

Agree, it's a waste of your time and energy, especially that he could easily claim you asked him on a date, so you have no case. 

Just delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps. That would solve all your problems with this incident.

At some level you know it's not the ticket/money. It's anger that he is not the BF/friend you wish you had.

For example, he could have offered to get the check for dinner or reimburse you upfront. But you seemed quite desperate for company, so let that slide...and now you're just angry.

Owning your role in this is more helpful to you than name calling. At least you'll get insight and reflect . You can't blame the whole world all the time.

Edited by Wiseman2
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18 hours ago, Tinydance said:

So I asked him if he wanted to go with me and said the ticket cost $160+ with booking fees and he'd need to pay me back. He said he'd love to go and that yes he'd pay me back and to send him my bank account

There was a clear communication that the ticket should be paid. Tiny's clear communication does not seem like a sign of desperation. It is on the guy he did not stand by his promise to pay the ticket.

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4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree, it's a waste of your time and energy, especially that he could easily claim you asked him on a date, so you have no case. 

Just delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps. That would solve all your problems with this incident.

At some level you know it's not the ticket/money. It's anger that he is not the BF/friend you wish you had.

For example, he could have offered to get the check for dinner or reimburse you upfront. But you seemed quite desperate for company, so let that slide...and now you're just angry.

Owning your role in this is more helpful to you than name calling. At least you'll get insight and reflect . You can't blame the whole world all the time.

Sorry but I honestly disagree with you that the money had to be paid upfront. You don't treat your friends like everything is only a transaction and you don't trust them. I go to things with my friends all the time. For example, my best friend wanted to go to this high tea for her Birthday. It's just her and I going. She offered to book the high tea and I said I'd pay her back. She booked and then I sent her the $50 for the high tea. This transaction was based on trust because we are friends. She asked me to pay her back, and I did. If I didn't pay her back then who would you say is actually at fault? Would you honestly say my best friend was at fault? Do you expect her to say to me: "Unless you send me the money upfront, I won't be booking the high tea and we won't be going". Is this how YOU actually treat your friends? 

Stop saying I was desperate! Seriously! I hadn't spoken to him much or seen him for six months. I actually go to events all the time and I win a lot of competitions with tickets too. If I was desperate specifically for him to go with me to things then I would have been inviting him to things all along. The only thing I had invited him to in six months was my Birthday which was a group invite and it was just an outdoor picnic. I had 20+ people at the picnic.

What's really starting to annoy me is that you're just saying I was desperate because it's a guy I used to date. If it was a female platonic friend would you be saying this? I don't ask my friends for money upfront because all my friends are decent people and they always send me the money. I never threaten anyone "If you don't transfer me the money first, you can't join me at XYZ". Also I could have asked many other people to go so I wasn't desperate. I was talking to him on Facebook at the time and he loves this show, that's why I asked him. Yeah maybe I still had some feelings for him but I didn't say at any point it was a date. We didn't kiss, we didn't go to each other's place. We just had dinner, saw the show, then straight after the show was over we just left. We had dinner so that we could chat before the show and catch up. If we went straight into the show then how could we actually have a conversation? 

Yes it's mostly not about the money but it's his behaviour. It's actually mostly the fact that he's ignoring all my messages. That is blatantly rude and especially since I said I'm feeling anxious.

Also it is irrelevant how or why I had a spare ticket. So what if my mother didn't want to go! If someone invited me to something and they asked me to pay $160, I wouldn't be like: "Actually I won't pay because if I wasn't going, you'd just go alone. So I'm doing you a huge favour and you don't deserve to get the money". That person ASKED to be paid. So as a friend I have to do the decent thing and pay. It seriously doesn't matter how or why they came to have the spare ticket. I don't think it also matters if otherwise they'd go alone or ticket would go to waste. 

Yeah of course I'm angry but stop saying it's my fault. We expect friends to be decent and to do what was organised and agreed on. If that friend screws you over it's actually on them that they are not trustworthy. 

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5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Based on your history with him you already knew he wasn't a good friend of yours.  I think you were feeling lonely and vulnerable.

What I knew was that he seems self-centred and likes talking pretty much just about himself. That's not exactly the same thing as that the person is going to rip you off of money. We had never gone to any things out together before. In my post I mentioned we dated in complete COVID lockdown last year where everything was closed down. We had never gone out anywhere together before, it was the first time. I don't suspect every single person that they're going to screw me over. So just because we'd never gone anywhere before doesn't make me an idiot.

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Here is our conversation on Facebook Messenger if anyone cares:

Me: Odd question...Do you have any interest in seeing Chess the Musical at the theatre next Thursday night? I have two tickets for good seats (I think? Lol). It's the professional production so the tickets are $158 or something along those lines. I know it's a lot. I kinda panicked and got two tickets lol I thought maybe my Mum would go with me but she's not that keen.

Him: OMG! Chess is my FAV MUSICAL OF ALL TIME ! Happy to pay for that. Had I told you it is literally my fav musical !

Me: Yes you have told me that!

Him: We could get some dinnner, catch up before then go?

Me: Yes I'd love to!

Him: so so cool. Probs 530 for 730 start. Otherwise food becomes such a rush.

If you give me your pay id or bsb/account I can pay you now

Thank you. I could not have picked literally ahything better - for our first time in public, lol. But seriously - I am giddy excited.

 

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The reason why I didn't get the money straight away is that I was worried maybe he might bail closer to the date. My Mum said if nobody decides to go at the last minute, then she'd go. So I was happy to wait until he actually did go to the show.

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5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think you're overthinking this.  You don't know him well but you do know he has a life and activities.  For all you know he's dashing off a response and not giving it a second thought.  I agree with those who say it's harmful to your health to keep focusing on this unfortunate situation.

Well I've messaged him three times already about this so he's been reminded. I also gave my Pay Pal so all he had to do was copy and paste my E-mail. That takes one minute. He can't be that busy that he can't take one minute to transfer it. Of course if I don't hear anything from him I'm not going to keep messaging him or posting here. I'm just discussing the situation and posted here once. I'm not going to make a second post or anything. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

Well I've messaged him three times already about this so he's been reminded. I also gave my Pay Pal so all he had to do was copy and paste my E-mail. That takes one minute. He can't be that busy that he can't take one minute to transfer it. Of course if I don't hear anything from him I'm not going to keep messaging him or posting here. I'm just discussing the situation and posted here once. I'm not going to make a second post or anything. 

I don't think he's busy at all.  I think he just doesn't care.  I think his behavior is pretty consistent with his other behaviors and choices you've described as well as the way you said he interacted with you.  You think he's narcissistic -so he cares mostly about himself, not whether he repays you for the theater ticket.  He says he was in an open marriage and you're not sure if he also cheated, yes?  So his morals might not be in the right place.  You said he didn't treat you well or respectfully a lot of the time.  He's not treating you with respect now.  I am not saying I'm right. I'm saying that's how I see it.

  I never said anything about anyone other than him -you continue to argue the whole slippery slope stuff about how you're not going to suspect everyone, how you're not going to distrust everyone -that's not my point at all.  I think you took a risk that this particular person would not act in a moral, appropriate way in the particular circumstances you described about this individual.  No one else.  Just him 

I'm glad you're going to stop.

Edited by Batya33
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41 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think he's busy at all.  I think he just doesn't care.  I think his behavior is pretty consistent with his other behaviors and choices you've described as well as the way you said he interacted with you.  You think he's narcissistic -so he cares mostly about himself, not whether he repays you for the theater ticket.  He says he was in an open marriage and you're not sure if he also cheated, yes?  So his morals might not be in the right place.  You said he didn't treat you well or respectfully a lot of the time.  He's not treating you with respect now.  I am not saying I'm right. I'm saying that's how I see it.

  I never said anything about anyone other than him -you continue to argue the whole slippery slope stuff about how you're not going to suspect everyone, how you're not going to distrust everyone -that's not my point at all.  I think you took a risk that this particular person would not act in a moral, appropriate way in the particular circumstances you described about this individual.  No one else.  Just him 

I'm glad you're going to stop.

Well he didn't cheat because he was in a polyamorous marriage. So both him and his wife were in relationships with other people also. I guess what I mean is I knew he was self-centred in how he talks. I didn't have any proof yet that he would cheat me of money. I mean, it's not a 100% correlation that someone who is all about talking about themselves would not pay someone back. For example, I caught up with a woman I met at Meetup once and she was quite self-involved and for many hours only talked about herself. She didn't ask me basically anything about me. We had a glass of wine at a bar and when we went to pay, she insisted she pay for my wine. So while she was a bit narcissistic as well, she wasn't going to just rip me off and in fact it was her that shouted me. 

Of course now I'm not going to invite him to anything ever again and I'm going to delete him off everything. I just didn't really appreciate how Wiseman basically implied I was an idiot because I didn't get the money upfront. I never get the money upfront from my friends and they usually don't from me. In some cases it's not even possible to get the money upfront. For example, in June I'm going to see the musician Amy Shark with my best friend. I said I'd get us the tickets. At the arena stadium where she's performing, different parts have different ticket prices. E.g. At the front is more expensive than at the back. So in that case I couldn't get the money upfront because I had to have a look and see which seats were still available and buy them. Then we would know which seat section I purchased and how much the cost was. 

Maybe I am going to be more careful about getting the money upfront now, but I'm still not going to be suspicious of everyone. Good and decent people will pay me back even if it's afterwards and I know that most of my friends are trustworthy.

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58 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well he didn't cheat because he was in a polyamorous marriage. So both him and his wife were in relationships with other people also. I guess what I mean is I knew he was self-centred in how he talks. I didn't have any proof yet that he would cheat me of money. I mean, it's not a 100% correlation that someone who is all about talking about themselves would not pay someone back. For example, I caught up with a woman I met at Meetup once and she was quite self-involved and for many hours only talked about herself. She didn't ask me basically anything about me. We had a glass of wine at a bar and when we went to pay, she insisted she pay for my wine. So while she was a bit narcissistic as well, she wasn't going to just rip me off and in fact it was her that shouted me. 

Of course now I'm not going to invite him to anything ever again and I'm going to delete him off everything. I just didn't really appreciate how Wiseman basically implied I was an idiot because I didn't get the money upfront. I never get the money upfront from my friends and they usually don't from me. In some cases it's not even possible to get the money upfront. For example, in June I'm going to see the musician Amy Shark with my best friend. I said I'd get us the tickets. At the arena stadium where she's performing, different parts have different ticket prices. E.g. At the front is more expensive than at the back. So in that case I couldn't get the money upfront because I had to have a look and see which seats were still available and buy them. Then we would know which seat section I purchased and how much the cost was. 

Maybe I am going to be more careful about getting the money upfront now, but I'm still not going to be suspicious of everyone. Good and decent people will pay me back even if it's afterwards and I know that most of my friends are trustworthy.

Once again you’re exaggerating what I wrote.  I never said 100% correlation.  That would be bizarre. I’m sorry another poster hurt your feelings. I’ve written s number of times that you are a victim of his bad behavior.  That I feel badly you are in this situation. I’m entitled to my personal opinion that you have no recourse which is a shame, agree you should move on, and believe you made a poor choice in how you arranged the event and payment situation.  I believe as I wrote above you were feeling somewhat needy and vulnerable and somehow were still into this person despite knowing he was not right for you and not a person of character and integrity. So you invited him and acted somewhat impulsively as far as the payment arrangements.  I was shocked you would think of contacting his ex wife and delighted you’ve thought better of it and have decided to move on.  Again I’m sorry you feel offended by certain other comments on this thread. 

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18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Once again you’re exaggerating what I wrote.  I never said 100% correlation.  That would be bizarre. I’m sorry another poster hurt your feelings. I’ve written s number of times that you are a victim of his bad behavior.  That I feel badly you are in this situation. I’m entitled to my personal opinion that you have no recourse which is a shame, agree you should move on, and believe you made a poor choice in how you arranged the event and payment situation.  I believe as I wrote above you were feeling somewhat needy and vulnerable and somehow were still into this person despite knowing he was not right for you and not a person of character and integrity. So you invited him and acted somewhat impulsively as far as the payment arrangements.  I was shocked you would think of contacting his ex wife and delighted you’ve thought better of it and have decided to move on.  Again I’m sorry you feel offended by certain other comments on this thread. 

Well it's true, I did have some feelings for him still but in my defence I actually hadn't been acting on them. As I mentioned, I ended with him six months ago and I had actually not seen him ever since. So what I mean is I didn't ask him to meet at any point in six months or actually even contact him. The only contact was very occasional liking of each other's Facebook posts. I invited him and his children to my Birthday picnic but that was with 20+ other guests. He didn't attend and I said nothing since January. He contacted me suddenly asking if I wanted to join him and his children for board games. I said I would and incidentally I had that second ticket to the theatre show.

I would like to add also that I don't ask money upfront from my friends in most situations. I always go to all kinds of things with my friends. Generally one person will book something and then the other will pay back. So while yes I still had feelings for this guy, in fact I treated him exactly the same as my other close friends. Likewise I would not have asked for the money upfront from anyone else either. I would be under assumption that I can trust them and they will send the money later. There is the saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Well, he hadn't fooled me twice. Only once. And now that he has, obviously I will be getting rid of him from my life.

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I had a friend for many years who ultimately beat me out of $100.  She called one day begging me to loan her $100 as her cat was sick.  I knew her cat wasn't healthy and I liked her so I sent her $100 I couldn't really afford to lose.  But I did lose it.  She promised to pay me back and I said 2 payments of $50 or 4 payments of $25 would be fine, and she lied and said she mailed me a cheque for $100 and the post office returned it saying they couldn't find me!  That's BS as I lived in a rural area and the post office knew me!  I have an odd first name, they knew me.  She just didnt send it.  Then she said she would send it again.  She never did.  We are not friends anymore.  I have not loaned anyone money since then.

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8 minutes ago, melancholy123 said:

I had a friend for many years who ultimately beat me out of $100.  She called one day begging me to loan her $100 as her cat was sick.  I knew her cat wasn't healthy and I liked her so I sent her $100 I couldn't really afford to lose.  But I did lose it.  She promised to pay me back and I said 2 payments of $50 or 4 payments of $25 would be fine, and she lied and said she mailed me a cheque for $100 and the post office returned it saying they couldn't find me!  That's BS as I lived in a rural area and the post office knew me!  I have an odd first name, they knew me.  She just didnt send it.  Then she said she would send it again.  She never did.  We are not friends anymore.  I have not loaned anyone money since then.

Yeah I can't believe people can act like this!! I think the main thing is that if people say they'll pay, they actually need to do it. I've been brought up that you pay people back, even if it's only a small amount. Fair enough if you go for dinner let's say and they don't split the bill and your friend pays and doesn't actually say anything. I would actually still offer to pay my part anyway. But if the agreement right from the start is to pay back then that needs to happen. Especially as you said, in the very least people could ask to repay in instalments. 

 

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On 5/11/2021 at 12:05 PM, Cherylyn said:

I sense he doesn't have any intentions to repay you.  Since messaging him repeatedly is futile, I would kiss the money goodbye, block and delete him permanently.  Good riddance and consider him history.  I hope in the future, this won't ever happen to you again.  I'm sorry for your bad experience. 

^ This was also my immediate reaction when I read your post.  You've messaged him several times and still nothing.  You're not going to see that money.  I would block and delete permanently too.  Lesson learned.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2021 at 6:54 PM, Tinydance said:

Anyway, I tried talking to him about how I feel upset that he snaps at me or doesn't seem interested in anything about me or my life. And he said something along the lines of: "I don't understand why you're saying this because you do all exactly the same things. You talk a lot and you interrupt me and I snapped at you coz you were interrupting me". I can see in hindsight now that it was probably gaslighting but at the time I was actually confused and in a very low state due to COVID isolation

For example.  I'm not sure how he was a close friend of yours or even a friend.  I don't see what changed six months later and where he became a friend let alone a close friend.

You wrote about the evening: " We went out for dinner before the theatre show. He was 30 minutes late to dinner but I knew traffic in the city was really bad and he was driving. At dinner he mostly did talk about himself and didn't ask me anything about me. I tried talking to him about how I had a falling out with a friend. He sided with what I was saying but kind of cut me off again by saying: "I think you should probably just stop talking about it and you should just move on". So that really ticked me off."

  He acted like a jerk about the money.  He'd acted like a jerk in other ways as you wrote in your first post -way more than I quoted here.  I agree with Capricorn.  Nothing to do with what "friends" generally do or don't do.  This particular situation - you were a victim of a guy who acted like a jerk to you again.  In a different way and still like a jerk.  I'm really glad you're choosing to move on and the story Melancholy shared was a good one -good for you to see that perspective.  I felt awful about what happened to her just like I did about your situation.

Edited by Batya33
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if he was a decent person, Tiny , he would have paid you the day he went out with you, you following up and him ignoring multiple times just gives you a sense of what character you are dealing here. What you can do is wait for a good opportunity to get the dues from him, he will come back for sure one day. 

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He's not a friend. Someone who cared would have transferred you the funds before the show and appreciated the fact that you invited them out to the musical in the first place, suggesting dinner or something else to also add to the experience. 

He also seemed off to you when you dated him prior. Sometimes we want people to just admit (for the love of all that's green) that they're wrong but they won't for whatever reason. He was wrong to put this off and not pay you back. If there was an understanding that it wasn't a free ticket, that money should have been transferred on the spot without issue.

He's not going to pay you back if it's been this long and I don't think he deserves to be a part of your life. You can't trust him with being gracious, get rid of him. I hope you at least enjoyed the musical!

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