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My ex/friend won't pay me back


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He is an a-hole though.  I just don't see a way to make him pay you back. 

  You trusted him and he has chosen to repay that trust with who he really is, a jerk that never valued you or your feelings.  You are not going to shame him into paying you nor are you going to be able to appeal to his good nature since he doesn't seem to have one.

I am sorry but the money is gone.  Give him a few more reminder emails around the day he gets paid and maybe you will catch him on a rare moment where he isn't an a-hole.

  Lost

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The money owed is probably not enough to have to pay to get it back. In the U.S., there's a filing fee of $80 to take a person to small claims court. I don't know the fee you give to a collections age

Do not do this, no. It's inappropriate, and what can she do for you? She can't make him pay. She doesn't control his money.  Tinydance, you need better boundaries for yourself. This guy was a dol

^ This was also my immediate reaction when I read your post.  You've messaged him several times and still nothing.  You're not going to see that money.  I would block and delete permanently too.  Less

I ask again Tiny. Would you consider approaching a debt collector (if such agencies exist where you are). One of these turning up at his place might jolt him into reality. 

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44 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I agree with Miss Canuck -I am really trying not to be flippant at all - to some $5 means a lot, to others $5,000 really means not much and everything in between.  Please take this as a warning to you to know your boundaries better. If you lay out money for someone you know it's always a gift.  If they pay you back, great.  There's no reason to get a lawyer, there's no proof at all this was not a gift.  And he can take issue with  you "harassing" him because he'll say it was a gift.  No I don't care if you have texts.  It's something but not worth the aggravation. 

I used to go to theater with my friend who had a subscription.  When I committed to go I paypaled her the money that day.  No matter when the show was.  Never owed her ticket $.  She didn't ask for it right away but those are my values.

When Covid hit I had committed to two shows - totaling probably around $200 or so.  The first show was canceled -she repaid me.  The second show wasn't canceled but she told me that of course she'd pay me back if I didn't want to wait around for the rescheduling (Hamilton, sigh).  I didn't.  She told me she'd reimburse me -this was the more expensive ticket.  She then went on vacation.  No $.  It felt incredibly awkward but when a week after she got back she hadn't paid me I sent her a paypal request.  She paid me right away, and apologized that it slipped her mind.  My standard -that would have never ever slipped my mind.  I can't stand owing people $.  I'd have put it in my reminder list on my phone if I couldn't reimburse at that very moment.  And made sure it was repaid before she had the chance to follow up, for sure. 

I give you these details because everyone has different standards about this stuff.  You chose someone who had shown in other ways he was not a person of character or integrity.  Would that translate to money matters? Maybe maybe not.  But assume it would.  Assume unless you are paid in advance or unless it's someone you've done this sort of thing before with over and over and the person wants to keep doing it -keep going to theater, on vacations, etc - assume you are gifting the money. 

When my friend forgot it was a one time thing - I would pay her in advance again if we chose to do theater.  Because we have a history together that has this one minor "slip" - no biggie.  But I've been in other situations where I felt guilted into loaning some $ and each time I assumed I wouldn't get it back.  Mostly I did.  Or I rationalized (like my cleaning service who didn't refund me my prepaid cleaning or acknowledge it because covid happened -so I chalked it up to charity, helping a cleaning service who'd been loyal etc). 

This money stuff is tricky - you showed a lack of common sense in fronting the money and expecting it back.  You are a victim of him basically stealing your money. A victim with no recourse and a victim who will continue the victimization if you continue interacting with him or escalate it.  I'm really sorry this happened. 

Well what I'm trying to say is, with my friends I don't demand things in advance. I have quite a few close friends and some I've known for twenty years. We have gone to all sorts of things together, even trips away. Normally one person would book something because often there are transaction fees and there is no point paying many transaction fees. E.g. In my group of four girl friends, one would book all our seats to the theatre. Then afterwards she'd say: "Tiny, you owe me $100 for your theatre ticket". Then I would transfer the money. Nobody amongst my friends asks the money first because we trust each other and we always send the money. No, there was no contract on paper that we signed but the agreement was verbal that he'd pay me back. Of course there is no written contract, you don't write contracts with your own friends unless it is something actually very legal. 

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3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That shouldn't matter.

Seriously? You would draw up contracts with your friends or demand upfront money about going to different events? The principle of having friends is it's based on trust. Of course he has shown me now that I can't trust him. But before that he said he'd pay back. I don't get suspicious of every single person I know that they'll screw me over.

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11 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I'm sorry this happened to you, Tinydance. 

I hope you will be repaid.  I sense he doesn't have any intentions to repay you.  Since messaging him repeatedly is futile, I would kiss the money goodbye, block and delete him permanently.  Good riddance and consider him history.  I hope in the future, this won't ever happen to you again.  I'm sorry for your bad experience. 

Thank you! Well I probably will just kiss it goodbye but I just wanted to throw around some ideas about what my options were lol Seems there aren't really any...

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Tinydance said:

had a weird and bad feeling about it at the time and couldn't exactly put my finger on it,

Your gut reaction was correct Tiny. 

And then he did say here that he would pay you that day. 

14 hours ago, Tinydance said:

He said: "Sorry love, been a busy week. I'll pay you today."

Just a real chancer and opportunist, T. 

Edited by LaHermes
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2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well what I'm trying to say is, with my friends I don't demand things in advance. I have quite a few close friends and some I've known for twenty years. We have gone to all sorts of things together, even trips away. Normally one person would book something because often there are transaction fees and there is no point paying many transaction fees. E.g. In my group of four girl friends, one would book all our seats to the theatre. Then afterwards she'd say: "Tiny, you owe me $100 for your theatre ticket". Then I would transfer the money. Nobody amongst my friends asks the money first because we trust each other and we always send the money. No, there was no contract on paper that we signed but the agreement was verbal that he'd pay me back. Of course there is no written contract, you don't write contracts with your own friends unless it is something actually very legal. 

You considered him a friend, he didn't. Even if he did he was a dolt/daft/moron/idiot/jack*ss/oaf/nitwit/divvy ... damn there are so many synonyms for this word in the English language, really useful when you are angry!

You can't really do anything now Tiny because you have nothing tangible if you want to sue him. Better forget about it and re-think who you consider a friend. 

Cheer up 🙂

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7 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

Do not do this, no. It's inappropriate, and what can she do for you? She can't make him pay. She doesn't control his money. 

Tinydance, you need better boundaries for yourself. This guy was a dolt from the beginning and you continued to try to get him to like you and value you. He showed you over and over and over that he does not really care about you. Your mistake was ignoring all the red flags. 

Will you get the $160 back? Probably not. Take this as the price for an important lesson for yourself: stay away from people who very clearly show you that they don't care. 

If I'm honest, I literally did not think he would screw me over like this. He has money, he works full-time in software development and he owns his house. I actually don't think the fact that he's ignoring all my messages and not paying is about money. I think it's some kind of narcissist power play that he's enjoying.

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4 hours ago, East4 said:

If I were you, I would send him a registered letter informing him that if he does not pay the amount by a certain date, you will file a complaint with Small Claims Court, or the equivalent in Australia. There is a written trail in which he recognizes the debt and agrees to pay, so you have evidence. 

The filing with Small Claims does not necessitate a lawyer, you can do it yourself (at least here, and I live in one administrative-intense country), so I guess the procedure is even lighter in Australia.

Of course, he will play the victim "oh poor me, how could you do that to me", but the fact is that he robbed you of your money. You were very clear with him that the ticket is not a gift. Do you have that stated in writing in your messages?

I actually do have all the messages of everything both on texts and Facebook Messenger. I don't think I'll take any legal action but I will just delete him from Facebook and I'll never speak to him ever again. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

If I'm honest, I literally did not think he would screw me over like this. He has money, he works full-time in software development and he owns his house. I actually don't think the fact that he's ignoring all my messages and not paying is about money. I think it's some kind of narcissist power play that he's enjoying.

well, it might be true. He enjoys your reaching out with nice messages, and he has all the power to leave you high and dry. This is why I'd suggest either you accept the loss, and stop contacting him, or you contact him...with legal action. 

Edited by East4
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1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

I fear that you encountered a conman, Tiny.  He also sounds most unpleasant. I have a feeling he won't pay you back, but do keep trying.

Btw, are there debt-collecting agencies where you are T?  Granted, the agency would take a cut out of the debt as their fee. 

I don't think I'll contact any debt collection or do anything on a legal level but I will definitely delete him from all my social media and from my life. I am honestly thinking that this is not about the actual money at all but it's some kind of emotional abuse. I feel like he might be doing this even over a small amount of money that anyone could easily afford. I sent a text saying: "I'm getting quite anxious that you don't reply and I'd like to get the money". After which he didn't reply again or send it. Which makes me think he's actually enjoying that I'm begging him to pay back and it's making me anxious.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I actually do have all the messages of everything both on texts and Facebook Messenger. I don't think I'll take any legal action but I will just delete him from Facebook and I'll never speak to him ever again. 

well, if you let him off the hook, he will know that you accept to being duped. Not to mention that he will do it to other women too.

If you show some teeth, and you certainly have all chances to win in small claims since you have the messages, then he will know that you are not an idiot. And he will be very careful to play these type of games with you or any other women. Conmen count exactly on this: that women are too indecisive and weak to take action. Show him he is wrong.

Edited by East4
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I am honestly thinking that this is not about the actual money at all but it's some kind of emotional abuse.

You could well be right, Tiny. There are some very unpleasant individuals out there.  

But, you know, "what goes around comes around." These types generally overstep themselves once too often.

 

Edited by LaHermes
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5 minutes ago, East4 said:

well, it might be true. He enjoys your reaching out with nice messages, and he has all the power to leave you high and dry. This is why I'd suggest either you accept the loss, and stop contacting him, or you contact him...legal action. 

Well I don't think the legal action will go anywhere really coz he probably would just send the money through then and that would be the end of that. I'm pretty sure he's just enjoying doing this to me so the best thing would be not to contact him and just delete him. That way I have the final say in this "power struggle".

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3 minutes ago, East4 said:

well, if you let him off the hook, he will know that you accept to being duped. Not to mention that he will do it to other women too.

If you show some teeth, and you certainly have all chances to win in small claims since you have the messages, then he will know that you are not an idiot. And he will be very careful to play these time of games with you or any other women. Conmen count exactly on this: that women are too indecisive and weak to take action. Show him he is wrong.

But thing is I don't think he actually wants this money. I think he's enjoying the power struggle. Like maybe he's enjoying how much it's bothering me because I've messaged him three times now and also that I said it's making me anxious. If I start taking any legal action then he might feel pleasure that he's really getting to me and it bothers me so much.

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5 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

 "I'm getting quite anxious annoyed with you moron that you don't reply and I'd like to get the money and I will pursue legal action". 

 

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51 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Tiny,

  That money is gone and there is no way of getting it back.  I see this as a god investment since the issue will put him out of your life where he belongs.  You have many friends so you certainly don't need this type of person in your life.  He is no friend, in fact he is about the worst kind of friend you can have.

  Is this about the amount of money or is there something else driving your need to make him pay you back?

  What would you had done with the extra ticket if none of your friends wanted to go?

  Lost

Well, I'm quite sure that I would have found someone else to go. My mother actually said that she didn't want to go due to COVID and that she wasn't that interested. But that if I didn't find anyone else that she actually would go, since the ticket was already paid for. I understand in the case that if I'd already asked many people and nobody wanted to go and he did me a favour. The reason why I asked him is just because I was having a conversation with him and because he messaged me asking if I wanted to come over to play board games. So based on the fact that he was who I was chatting with at the time and that he loves the musical Chess, I decided to ask him.

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23 minutes ago, dias said:

You considered him a friend, he didn't. Even if he did he was a dolt/daft/moron/idiot/jack*ss/oaf/nitwit/divvy ... damn there are so many synonyms for this word in the English language, really useful when you are angry!

You can't really do anything now Tiny because you have nothing tangible if you want to sue him. Better forget about it and re-think who you consider a friend. 

Cheer up 🙂

Yeah it's just that I've never actually come across this behaviour before. People have paid me even much smaller amounts which technically they may have thought I could just let go. E.g. People have even paid back $10 because it was agreed they would. I am actually not an idiot, I don't just trust everyone. Once I had a stranger ask me if they could use my phone, they said their battery died or something like that. I said no because I didn't want them to run off with my phone. I actually have also sold concert tickets before but first I told them to deposit the money into my bank account. Once I received the money, I sent them the ticket. The only reason I didn't ask in advance this time is because he's not a stranger.

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Just on a side note, I seem to be going through awkward financial things at the moment all at the same time lol I went on a date with a guy from online dating today that I'd never met in real life before. I feel like he may have been on the autism spectrum because he pretty much made no eye contact and only looked to the side for two hours. Additionally I don't think either of us was actually into each other lol

We were in a cafe and we paid for our own coffee. Then we both ordered lunch. He got a toasted sandwich and coffee. When we decided to leave, I got up to pay and went to the counter. For some odd reason the guy didn't get up from the table at all and just sat there. The waitress said to me: "That'll be a toasted sandwich, two coffees and toast please". The guy got the toasted sandwich but I felt too awkward to be like: "Hey, get up and pay for your sandwich and coffee". So I just paid and then I said to him it's all been sorted. Then we said the polite "Nice to meet you: and left.

Then I get a message from him saying: "I think you paid for my sandwich too and not just my coffee. Can you send me your bank account?" I mean, that was nice but the whole thing was just awkward. He first left me to pay and then was like, send me your bank account. It was only like $15 anyway. I don't want to be petty and I feel better that he at least offered to pay me back. But yeah, I'm seeing now that money things are very awkward lol

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41 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well I don't think the legal action will go anywhere really coz he probably would just send the money through then and that would be the end of that. I'm pretty sure he's just enjoying doing this to me so the best thing would be not to contact him and just delete him. That way I have the final say in this "power struggle".

Well, then you get your money back... and some respect too.

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38 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

But thing is I don't think he actually wants this money. I think he's enjoying the power struggle. Like maybe he's enjoying how much it's bothering me because I've messaged him three times now and also that I said it's making me anxious. If I start taking any legal action then he might feel pleasure that he's really getting to me and it bothers me so much.

what matters is what YOU want. Quit looking at things from his perspective.

Do you want your money back? Do you want some self-respect back? Can you take legal action without an attorney, so no further expenditure for you? If the answer is to all three is yes, then go for it.

Otherwise this incident will chisel off from your thrust in friends and make you a little more bitter and distrustful in friendship. I know that for Aquarius people friendship is of paramount importance, even more important than romance. So, if you let it slide, there is a bit more to lose than just 160$...  

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2 minutes ago, East4 said:

what matters is what YOU want. Quit looking at things from his perspective.

Do you want your money back? Do you want some self-respect back? Can you take legal action without an attorney, so no further expenditure for you? If the answer is to all three is yes, then go for it.

Otherwise this incident will chisel off from your thrust in friends and make you a little more bitter and distrustful in friendship. I know that for Aquarius people friendship is of paramount importance, even more important than romance. So, if you let it slide, there is a bit more to lose than just 160$...  

How did you know I'm an Aquarius??!! Lol

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

How did you know I'm an Aquarius??!! Lol

it came up in a thread and I remembered it. I know that lost is also an aqua.

And you do show typical characteristics of aqua person: open minded, with humanitarian inclination (your job as social worker), accepting of people without judging, the addiction too is typical unfortunately. So, I know that you value friendships, which is the hallmark of Aqua people. 

I know that aqua people do prefer to take the high road, but in this case, the way your "friend" is treating you is outrageous. A tremendous shame. 

Edited by East4
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The money owed is probably not enough to have to pay to get it back. In the U.S., there's a filing fee of $80 to take a person to small claims court. I don't know the fee you give to a collections agency. 

You're not the first person taken for a ride on things like this, and you won't be the last. I know I had minor crap now and then. A friend who lost a DVD I loaned her and she didn't buy me a new one. I'd brought a DVD movie over to a bf's house to watch, we broke up, and I asked him to mail it to me because we lived an hour away from each other, but I never received it. Not as much as you were out, but just some examples of stuff people commonly deal with.

You've asked him 3 times. That was a good attempt. Now, the longer you let this play out, and each time you type those words to him or leave a voicemail, that anger will stay inside you.

I'd free yourself from those roiling emotions, tell yourself it's over--lesson learned, and then move on. Peace of mind is more important, getting back to a chill norm.

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