Should I be upset?

[sunshine1422]

48 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

It's not a product, but it's a trigger. This is learned behavior yes. When the tough get going the weak run off.

Makes sense

[sunshine1422]

18 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

Because what's caused your BU the first time, was never resolved..

Okay.. but YOU have to try & work with him in this.... He went to do a few things... that's all. 😕 

You have no idea how things played out at his end... Maybe he just 'took his time' doing all of this, since he was trying to wind down from his day...

 

So, he was rebounding?  BUT, to go back to you because things didnt work w' another woman?  wow 😕 

This is all..damaging.

This sounds like a little unsure.

I say.. UNLESS you two can work this all out.. the fussing stops & you are all okay again, this won't feel right.

Yeah, I'm sure things are changed a bit now, for sure.. because when a couple breaks up, there all all the issue's causing the BU, and then, you have the hurts due to the BU, etc. So, you really have to try even harder to work through all of that and so often, they do end up split, again.

He is your fiance..fact.  he is with you now.

So, I suggest you try to give this some time... to try & get your emotions in check.. but IF your trust is just too far gone, it may not be salvagable, as it can cause continous issue's.

Yes it's like adding more to the fire

[indea08]

14 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

That's what I'm thinking. I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole.

I think there's even more to this than the fact that he might feel disrespected. Chances are, someone like him, who behaves the way that he does, doesn't have much self respect to begin with, and subconsciously seeks a "mother" figure in his relationships. 

I think the interesting part of this dynamic (as far as sunshine1422 is concerned), is: why are you choosing a man that you don't truly respect?

I think you (sunshine1422) should examine your view of men in general. Would you settle for a man-child if you believed that men could actually be emotionally intelligent, emotionally mature adults? I think not. 

I think you have to up your expectations of men. Hold them to a standard. Let the slag fall away.

I do agree with some of this, but I still have to kind of defend the guy. I’ve been through a few different breakups where I can see how I acted similar to him. It wasn’t because I was trying to be selfish or malicious, I was genuinely in a bad state of mind and was trying to figure out what the right path was for me. I said how I truly felt in all situations, which meant maybe telling someone I loved them while having interest in others as well. I also have been in relationships where there was too much control, and I never understood why he was upset about the things he was upset about, so it was impossible for me to avoid his next complaint. That will push you into all kinds of toxic behavior. 

Ultimately OP, if you want to see him as a man child and force him to “prove” anything to you, you should break up. If you want to stay together, you should start with your own behavior and start offering the benefit of the doubt. I was able to grow through all of my bad experiences to become a pretty d*mn good wife, my husband would say the same. ETA: The same is true for him! He’s even said “I really could’ve been a better boyfriend to a lot of girls.” We learned together how to be secure, supportive, and most importantly: understanding. I know you guys can too if you’re willing to change the way you judge each other.

[smackie9]

I get it, you both have invested so much BUT, you both never addressed the issues, and worked on repairing things...so things will continue the same way. There is no way a marriage would have ever survived in the state of things have been and are now.

If you are willing to make changes, and him willing to make changes too....I mean REALLY invest in this relationship, it can be saved.

You have a lot of thinking/talking to do.

[sunshine1422]

17 hours ago, DancingFool said:

There is that old saying that if you sleep with the dogs, you'll wake up with fleas. When you get involved with someone who is toxic, you aren't going to bring him up to your level, he will bring you down to his, which is what is happening here.

Do you like feeling crazy? I hope not. Do you like arguing with the partner about basic adult things he should be doing without arguing? You are parenting a toxic manchild who is then blaming you for asking him to adult or simply runs away or threatens to run away.

What are you doing? Please don't say "love" because that's not what love looks like. What is actually going on with you that you are avoiding facing or dealing with? You don't depend on him, you don't need him, yet....

I hope that as you keep writing things out and reading it back to yourself, that maybe the spell will get broken for you and you'll actually break free of him.

Yes, and I feel like I'm learning these behaviors and becoming the same.

[sunshine1422]

17 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Has he moved in and out? This has to be so confusing for your kids. 

They hear you "fussing" at one another. They do, even if you insist they do not. This isn't good for them.

I don't believe counseling will help. I think you two have a fundamental incompatibility. And that's why there's so much "fussing".

I'm starting to believe the same thing as in if we are compatible. We are somewhat in different areas of our life and that makes it hard also. He says he wants a family, marriage, goals but you have to do right by those also.

[sunshine1422]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

Honestly, I think you should pay attention to it--and all of the other behavior he exhibits.

Don't you realize he is capable of doing the same thing to you? This is where your trust issues should stem from. This, and him falling down dead at the slightest sign of a challenge. Things are "not good" between the two of you a lot.

I think that you're addicted to the highs and lows of the drama cycle, like a lot of other people are. When things are bad, they're really bad. But when things are good, they're GOOOOOOOD. The big lows make the highs feel even higher. But the highs really aren't very high at all because you're in an unstable, emotionally exhausting relationship that is ultimately unsatisfying. 

It's sad about his upbringing, but do you deserve to be punished for it? If you let him treat you bad, do you think it will undo the wrongs that were done to him? That he will get better? No, he has to pick himself up off the floor and make that decision himself. 

I do realize this and I think that's why after the brb text and then almost 2 hours later my anxiety and emotions were every where. I should not feel like that and I should not put him through that. We have a lot of damage on top of damage that has never been resolved.

[sunshine1422]

58 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

He's too damaged and broken to be continuing a relationship, in my opinion. No amount of your offering "emotional protection, love, support, loyalty" will fix his issues. That's where you're misguided and relying on an unrealistic pipe dream to carry you both through. If he's manipulative, there should be absolutely no room for any of that. Don't settle for so little and for the crappy temperament of individuals who just have not worked through their own issues first. 

I think counselling is another reason to delay ending this nightmare altogether. Both of you don't have anything but the property tying you together at this point?

Why should you keep digging your nails deeper into this mess? You are not his therapist or mother-in-adulthood. I think that you have adopted him as another child and are applying a parental role to this relationship making up for his childhood issues, disregarding your needs or expectations overall. There are way too many excuses at this point to excuse what you're doing continuing to have him in your life. 

 

Yes you are right I need to find out why I disregard my needs and expectations and why I choose men like this to begin with.

[Jibralta]

@sunshine1422 How old are you two?

[sunshine1422]

58 minutes ago, indea08 said:

Alright, so I’m just going to be straight with you, you’re likely not going to like what I have to say, and that’s okay, but I hope you’ll try to consider these points.

First and foremost, you cannot keep telling yourself he is a man-child. How disrespected do you think he’d feel if he knew that’s how you see him? If that’s your perception of him, that will come across to him. Whether it’s in your tone of voice, your facial expressions, or your statements, he will feel your condescending attitude and it will further aggravate the situation. Why would I work to change myself to meet standards of someone who thinks I’m a child, and makes me feel like one? I wouldn’t.

Second, I do think you are way, WAY over the top with your need for him to check in with you. You aren’t his keeper, he needs to be able to just live. You are supposed to add value to his life, not monitor his activity.  When you gripe at him for taking some time to himself and not responding to you within one hour, of course he’s going to feel like he’s never good enough. You’re not leaving him any room to just be himself. He’s not you, he doesn’t have the same thoughts as you, he isn’t wired the same way you are, and that’s part of his beauty. That’s part of him being a unique individual, part of who he is. Either you learn to love the person that he is without your intrusion, or you let him find someone who can. It’s like that analogy, when you see a beautiful flower, admire it without picking it, for once you pick it, it ceases to be what you admired. 

Finally, him having seen other girls. Okay, I get why y’all want to drag him through the mud for telling OP he loves her while seeing other girls. But again, the guy is human. He was hurt by the breakup and trying to move on. Confused by his feelings, I’m sure, and just trying to figure out what to do. I can’t condemn him for not being a perfect gentleman during that time. I’ve handled a few of my breakups far worse, but I ultimately found new partners who were supportive about it and helped me find my way forward, allowing me to feel confident in closing one chapter and starting a new one. PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SCREW UP. You should expect that, because no one is perfect. If you want a happy relationship, be the soft spot where he can fall short every now and then without being made to feel bad about it. I promise you, there will be days where you will fall short and will be so grateful he was understanding about it. This is a balance of course, and you have to establish where the line is that can’t be crossed. But if taking an hour after a long day to relax on your own is crossing your line, you really need to look at where you’ve drawn the line. There are so many serious and heart breaking things happening in the world, so to get yourself so worked up over something so small is so self-damaging, not to mention lethal to your relationship.

I respect your advise and agree with you.

[sunshine1422]

59 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

It's not a product, but it's a trigger. This is learned behavior yes. When the tough get going the weak run off.

I think that's exactly what happens. When I finally get tough and have had enough and put my foot down and call him out he runs!!!

[sunshine1422]

15 minutes ago, indea08 said:

I do agree with some of this, but I still have to kind of defend the guy. I’ve been through a few different breakups where I can see how I acted similar to him. It wasn’t because I was trying to be selfish or malicious, I was genuinely in a bad state of mind and was trying to figure out what the right path was for me. I said how I truly felt in all situations, which meant maybe telling someone I loved them while having interest in others as well. I also have been in relationships where there was too much control, and I never understood why he was upset about the things he was upset about, so it was impossible for me to avoid his next complaint. That will push you into all kinds of toxic behavior. 

Ultimately OP, if you want to see him as a man child and force him to “prove” anything to you, you should break up. If you want to stay together, you should start with your own behavior and start offering the benefit of the doubt. I was able to grow through all of my bad experiences to become a pretty d*mn good wife, my husband would say the same. ETA: The same is true for him! He’s even said “I really could’ve been a better boyfriend to a lot of girls.” We learned together how to be secure, supportive, and most importantly: understanding. I know you guys can too if you’re willing to change the way you judge each other.

Thank you indea08, I have also made bad decisions in certain situations. You do evolve, grow, and learn things, I guess what is holding me on right now is he has made appointments and admits to his wrongs and is willing to get help and work on making this better. He knows he has screwed up in the past and says he is willing to do what it takes and I have to let him do that without doubting him. This is exactly what happens sometimes (was too much control, and I never understood why he was upset about the things he was upset about, so it was impossible for me to avoid his next complaint. That will push you into all kinds of toxic behavior.)   I have experienced this with him.

[sunshine1422]

13 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

@sunshine1422 How old are you two?

I'm 40 and he is 34

[sunshine1422]

23 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

I get it, you both have invested so much BUT, you both never addressed the issues, and worked on repairing things...so things will continue the same way. There is no way a marriage would have ever survived in the state of things have been and are now.

If you are willing to make changes, and him willing to make changes too....I mean REALLY invest in this relationship, it can be saved.

You have a lot of thinking/talking to do.

Yes we do! We should of worked out those things instead of adding to them, now we have a lot more to work through.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

 I am scared to remarry. I was divorced almost 6 years ago and told myself I wouldn't do it again. My fiance has been married twice.

Yes, you should be afraid of marrying an on/off abuser like this. Can you move out?

[DancingFool]

He is only 34 and already has been married and divorced twice??? Nothing about this raises a massive red flag for you? You do realize that going off and immediately "falling in love" with the other woman is very consistent here right? Ditto for inability to keep a job and otherwise be stable.

Please put down the hope crack pipe. This guy is a walking personality disorder and there are no cures for that. Normal people can change and improve, disordered people cannot and do not. They are born that way and they will die that way because you cannot rewire their brain. It's literally wired differently and you need to stop projecting who you are to him. He is not like you.

Please forget marriage, get rid of this abuser and get therapy strictly for yourself so you can heal from your past and never get into another abusive relationship again, let alone cling to one. This guy is not your prize, he is your nightmare. You also have children, so do it for them - stop subjecting them to your bad relationship decisions because they are affected by this.

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

This guy is a walking personality disorder and there are no cures for that. Normal people can change and improve, disordered people cannot and do not. They are born that way and they will die that way because you cannot rewire their brain. It's literally wired differently and you need to stop projecting who you are to him. He is not like you.

Agree.

[LaHermes]

2 hours ago, sunshine1422 said:

......... I need to find out why I disregard my needs and expectations and why I choose men like this to begin with.

That is exactly what you need to do, Sunshine.  What attracts you to destructive, damaging individuals, and why.

Please read and re-read Dancing Fool's post above.  She sets out the situation for you exactly as it is.

 

[MissCanuck]

Don't marry this guy.

This isn't "fussing." This is a dysfunctional relationship. 

His extended bath-time isn't the problem. The relationship is the problem. You two do not work as a couple. 

 

[boltnrun]

Just now, MissCanuck said:

Don't marry this guy.

This isn't "fussing." This is a dysfunctional relationship. 

His extended bath-time isn't the problem. The relationship is the problem. You two do not work as a couple. 

 

And when someone has to fundamentally change to be right for someone... it's the wrong relationship.

[sunshine1422]

Thanks so much for every ones advice. We went out of town for the weekend to my sons jr/sr at the beach where some of my family was. Hoping to get a little time away and it was such a disaster. He fussed because I was not giving him enough attention and my Mom stayed under us and she is annoying and talks way too much but she is my Mom and likes to spend time with me or us. So we spent a good bit of time ill or fussing because of that and then yesterday before heading home him and my oldest daughter get into it and we started fussing again. But I find myself still trying, still holding on, working through the issues, only for them to never go away 😞😫 I guess my main issue now is taking steps to let this relationship go. I think I am more afraid of how I will feel after everything is said and done and he is gone. When we split before I was in such a mess for months.

[Rose Mosse]

"When we split before I was in such a mess for months."

You'll just have to want it bad enough - peace of mind, better health overall, finding joy again.

All those things are a human right, every person deserves that. Room to breathe and room to think and develop better as a person, not remain stunted, abused or put down constantly or walk on eggshells. 

[sunshine1422]

Yes I know it's definitely headed in that direction for sure.

[boltnrun]

Do it for your kids. They also will be so comforting. How wonderful to have the love of your children! You wouldn't be able to afford to be "a mess" because they will need you.

I went through an upsetting breakup but my kids are such a joy that it wasn't devastating.  

[Andrina]

So he created a toxic environment on a trip meant for the enjoyment of the kids. Yes, he's childish, and fighting with your daughter should be a dealbreaker in itself. If you don't love yourself enough to end this ASAP, and just peruse possibly breaking it off somewhere in the future, then at least do this right now for your children. Think of it as loving them should override you feeling crappy over a failed relationship.

Your kids don't have any control over keeping the beast at bay, but you do.

And fussing is a word you use to sugarcoat. A girl having to deal with a grown man making her feel bad is plain abuse.