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Not sure what to do about this friendship, part 2


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If I were you, I'd back off, stop extending invitations and showing any type of enthusiasm regarding friendship with her.  Lower her from friendship to a casual acquaintance status at best.  Keep your correspondence minimal to nil if it goes in that direction easily. 

If you have contact with her, make sure it's very infrequent, brief and superficial only. 

Rachael is a flake.  She's very unreliable so write her off.  Don't take her seriously anymore because she has proven to be irresponsible with her friendship with you, her diet and she's unstable.  Steer clear of her otherwise she'll only repeatedly drag you down. 

Consider it a lesson learned for you.  I've had people in my life who habitually disappoint me.  I simply eliminate them from my life because they're a waste of my time, energy, labor and money.  If I must cross paths with people whom I don't admire, I'm merely peaceful, well mannered and polite.  My contact with them is non-existent to less than bare minimum.  I no longer go out of my way to be so nice anymore.  Those days are history. 

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On 3/31/2021 at 4:29 PM, Cherylyn said:

If I were you, I'd back off, stop extending invitations and showing any type of enthusiasm regarding friendship with her.  Lower her from friendship to a casual acquaintance status at best.  Keep your correspondence minimal to nil if it goes in that direction easily. 

If you have contact with her, make sure it's very infrequent, brief and superficial only. 

Rachael is a flake.  She's very unreliable so write her off.  Don't take her seriously anymore because she has proven to be irresponsible with her friendship with you, her diet and she's unstable.  Steer clear of her otherwise she'll only repeatedly drag you down. 

Consider it a lesson learned for you.  I've had people in my life who habitually disappoint me.  I simply eliminate them from my life because they're a waste of my time, energy, labor and money.  If I must cross paths with people whom I don't admire, I'm merely peaceful, well mannered and polite.  My contact with them is non-existent to less than bare minimum.  I no longer go out of my way to be so nice anymore.  Those days are history. 

Unfortunately the slow fade/distancing approach didn't work before. I did get the advice here before to start distancing and I did honestly try it. I stopped initiating conversations in our friends group chat and in Facebook chat directly to Rachael. I also stopped inviting Rachael to anything. I was still polite and on friendly terms and responded just here and there. Unfortunately Rachael wasn't actually letting me slow fade. Our mutual friend said she was really upset about it and she kept trying to contact me and ask to catch up saying she really cared about our friendship and she wanted to work it out. She wasn't just letting me slow fade.

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That's fine. You've learned what doesn't work. No need to respond to her calls or texts anymore. Let your mutual friend know you no longer need updates on Rachael and be firm about it.

Setting those boundaries are not just with Rachael. It's also being gentle but firm with the rest of your friends that you are distancing yourself from that person. It takes time for others to adjust or accommodate you but remain firm and follow through with your actions. Eventually she'll fade out of your life for good. 

 

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7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Unfortunately the slow fade/distancing approach didn't work before. I did get the advice here before to start distancing and I did honestly try it. I stopped initiating conversations in our friends group chat and in Facebook chat directly to Rachael. I also stopped inviting Rachael to anything. I was still polite and on friendly terms and responded just here and there. Unfortunately Rachael wasn't actually letting me slow fade. Our mutual friend said she was really upset about it and she kept trying to contact me and ask to catch up saying she really cared about our friendship and she wanted to work it out. She wasn't just letting me slow fade.

You can only control you.  Of course she doesn't have to let you slow fade.  You can choose how to react to her continued contact and interactions.

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Tiny,

I've also been posting about friend conflict.  And I think, for me, anyway, it feels bad to break up with a friend. Its almost like I don't want to be friends but I didn't want her to know.  lol. I hoped it would fade but it hasn't.  I've told her my feelings, we've argued, but always made up.  

No changed behavior, no difference.  Well, all that did was make me mental! The resentment is very strong. I eventually told her I need space.  And she's respected that.  Although she did send me a card in my birthday. 

I thanked her for the card and that was it. I'm still keeping my distance and that's what I prefer.  I do not want to argue, tell her all her short comings according to me, or send her mixed singles.  

Right now I don't want to be friends. I'm sure it hurts her. it hurts me, too. We're both responsible for this and both feel bad. I'm sure. 

So... I'm telling you all this because 1, I do understand.  & 2, my advice is this... 

If she is not willing to change her behavior, and you're always either forgiving bad behavior or bearing the discomfort she causes,  what is she doing? 

You are not a bad friend,  if a person isn't willing to change,  how are they actually working through it? 

She may beg you to work it out, but be aware what that actually means.  she doesn't want change. She wants you to accept her BS.

So you have to do what honors you.  How you feel. 

She has to own her crap. if she knows she's on a diet and she's struggling, then she shouldn't keep making plans.  She is well within her rights to live her own life.  Just as you are within yours to decide what you accept in yours. 

As for me, I'm not sending a birthday card back and I have no intentions of doing anything to work it out or communicate again.  I don't want to be friends and we both just have to live with that.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lambert said:

Tiny,

I've also been posting about friend conflict.  And I think, for me, anyway, it feels bad to break up with a friend. Its almost like I don't want to be friends but I didn't want her to know.  lol. I hoped it would fade but it hasn't.  I've told her my feelings, we've argued, but always made up.  

No changed behavior, no difference.  Well, all that did was make me mental! The resentment is very strong. I eventually told her I need space.  And she's respected that.  Although she did send me a card in my birthday. 

I thanked her for the card and that was it. I'm still keeping my distance and that's what I prefer.  I do not want to argue, tell her all her short comings according to me, or send her mixed singles.  

Right now I don't want to be friends. I'm sure it hurts her. it hurts me, too. We're both responsible for this and both feel bad. I'm sure. 

So... I'm telling you all this because 1, I do understand.  & 2, my advice is this... 

If she is not willing to change her behavior, and you're always either forgiving bad behavior or bearing the discomfort she causes,  what is she doing? 

You are not a bad friend,  if a person isn't willing to change,  how are they actually working through it? 

She may beg you to work it out, but be aware what that actually means.  she doesn't want change. She wants you to accept her BS.

So you have to do what honors you.  How you feel. 

She has to own her crap. if she knows she's on a diet and she's struggling, then she shouldn't keep making plans.  She is well within her rights to live her own life.  Just as you are within yours to decide what you accept in yours. 

As for me, I'm not sending a birthday card back and I have no intentions of doing anything to work it out or communicate again.  I don't want to be friends and we both just have to live with that.

Thank you so much Lambert, I appreciate your advice and everyone else's advice a lot. I'm grateful for this forum because majority of people here are very supportive and fair and it's been so helpful to come here for advice over the years and to vent. 

Thank you for saying you relate to me, it means a lot. To be honest I'm really struggling. I did end the friendship on not really the best note 2-3 days ago and I've been feeling very low. I did actually try to talk to Rachael (fake name by the way) in a polite way first. She said she wouldn't reply until she'd spoken with her therapist because it's all just too distressing to her. That just made me even more mad because I was trying to discuss things and she just shut it off. I didn't actually know when she had an appointment with her therapist. I think she only sees him once a week or once a fortnight so how long was meant to be waiting to get any reply? 

Obviously I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist but I've been thinking is she a narcissist....She's very self absorbed and if I tried to talk about how she's treating me, she was really defensive and kind of gaslighting. Saying I'm hurting her and I'm being so rude to her. And she basically didn't want to discuss it. 

I know she's been diagnosed with depression and anxiety and she's on medications, but to my knowledge she's not on the autism spectrum and has no other mental health or physical conditions except migraines.

I wonder though whether above all she's just a mean and judgemental person. I'm not sure if you've read my original post about her but a number of times she said something rude and mean/judgemental. One time she told me I put on weight but the kicker is I hadn't! On the scales the weight was literally the same, clothes fit the same and I don't get bloating or anything. First of all you shouldn't even be telling people that they gained weight unless it's a large amount in a short time. In that case if they're a close friend, you might show concern and ask is everything OK? But why would you tell your close friend who is only chubby that they gained weight when they actually haven't. In particular as she was the same clothes size as me herself.

Another time our friend Henry and I were at her place, sleeping over. A close friend of Henry and I was hosting a virtual video games night online. Rachael said she might rest in her room alone a bit so we thought it was OK to play the online games in the meantime until she returned. This close female friend of Henry and I is a sex worker. We asked Rachael if she wanted to join us in the video games and she said: "No I don't want to because I don't like your friend because she's a sex worker". But the thing is she'd never even really met that friend so how can she not like her! I understand not everyone accepts sex work but Henry and I accept and like our friend, so why make these comments. Also Rachael herself doesn't work and has been on government welfare for a number of years at least. In my state sex work is legal so at least my friend is earning an honest living.

I only just found out last night from my other best friend, S, what Rachael said to her. She hardly knows S at all but she said something to her at one of my parties. S had two children and after the pregnancies she has a condition where her stomach muscles didn't pull together. So she has a big stomach still and she needs to have surgery for it. Rachael basically doesn't really know S but said to her: "You look like you're still pregnant". S said she didn't tell me because she didn't want to cause any trouble, but now she knows I ended the friendship she wanted to let know.

The thing is, I know this is horrible and vile behaviour but I'm feeling guilty and awful for some reason. I think part of it was maybe Rachael's gaslighting and mind effing me. The other reason is I feel stupid and really regret that I'd set her up 2-3 years ago with my really close friend Henry. Six years ago Henry and I dated briefly, then were FWB for 2.5 years. I didn't want an actual relationship because Henry is polyamorous and I'm not and I like him more as a good friend. He's a really nice and sweet guy. 

Anyway, back 2+ years ago I was actually in a long-term relationship and engaged to another guy. I was happy at the time and the wedding was booked. So I think I had rose coloured glasses on and was all lovey dovey. I didn't know Rachael well but I knew she was lonely and so was Henry, so I thought it might be nice if they got together and introduced them. They did get together and dated for a year or so. I don't care that they dated but the problem is Henry became really close friends with Rachael and now he says he likes her a lot as a friend. He's a shy, quiet super chill guy so I think her personality doesn't actually bother him. That is of course his choice but now I'll be the one left out of things they do together. 

This Sunday Rachael is having an Easter gathering at her place with Henry and my best friend Belinda (her roommate). They're going to exchange Easter gifts and I was going to come too. Now I'll be spending Easter alone. I'll still get the chocolate from Belinda and Henry at a different time, so that's OK. I think I'll just feel left out not being part of the group anymore.

 

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I understand.  It is a roller coaster.  Just like with a guy!

Try to soothe yourself through this.  I know it's hard when you have mutual friends, but this is your choice.  and who knows, maybe letting this friendship go and distancing yourself from Henry and S, when they are with her, will open a new door for you.  That's how things work.  You identify something you don't like, you change it.  Is it easy?  no...

Your gut, heart, soul, whatever you want to call it, is telling you.  And until you listen to yourself and take care of yourself first, you're just going to be banging your head against the wall.

We all have friends that annoy us and friendships do ebb and flow.  Let this one be for now.  I always try to remember, as long as two people are still on the earth there's a chance anything could happen.

I personally, have reached a point, in my friendship, where I have expressed my feelings but they're just not respected.  And I always have to be "the bigger person" because she has anxiety, or can't handle things, or she's not smart (all her words) ugh  

Then I read a meme that said-- if you always have to be the bigger person, ask yourself.  Why are you hanging around so many small people?  And that really hit me.  and what I meant when I said, to you.... she says wants to work through things, but what is she working through?  Nothing.  She wants you to bend to her.  Continue to make it easier for her.

And again, that's the cause of a lot resentment for me, in my sitch.  And I just can't do it anymore.

So my dear, TinyDancer, I think you need to make your own plans for Easter.  To enjoy it another way.  That's the solution.  Not sulking about what your missing, but enjoying what you are doing instead.

 

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8 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I understand.  It is a roller coaster.  Just like with a guy!

Try to soothe yourself through this.  I know it's hard when you have mutual friends, but this is your choice.  and who knows, maybe letting this friendship go and distancing yourself from Henry and S, when they are with her, will open a new door for you.  That's how things work.  You identify something you don't like, you change it.  Is it easy?  no...

Your gut, heart, soul, whatever you want to call it, is telling you.  And until you listen to yourself and take care of yourself first, you're just going to be banging your head against the wall.

We all have friends that annoy us and friendships do ebb and flow.  Let this one be for now.  I always try to remember, as long as two people are still on the earth there's a chance anything could happen.

I personally, have reached a point, in my friendship, where I have expressed my feelings but they're just not respected.  And I always have to be "the bigger person" because she has anxiety, or can't handle things, or she's not smart (all her words) ugh  

Then I read a meme that said-- if you always have to be the bigger person, ask yourself.  Why are you hanging around so many small people?  And that really hit me.  and what I meant when I said, to you.... she says wants to work through things, but what is she working through?  Nothing.  She wants you to bend to her.  Continue to make it easier for her.

And again, that's the cause of a lot resentment for me, in my sitch.  And I just can't do it anymore.

So my dear, TinyDancer, I think you need to make your own plans for Easter.  To enjoy it another way.  That's the solution.  Not sulking about what your missing, but enjoying what you are doing instead.

 

Thank you so much Lambert. I like that quote a lot, it's a great quote! I might find it online and save it to remind myself in times like these. I think you're really right in saying that if someone says they want to work it out, but they don't listen to you or validate your feelings and they continue doing exactly the same bad things, they won't change. There are also two people in a friendship so it's not fair if you're the only one who always has to apologise and do everything they want. 

What I think is also hard is that if the friendship lasted quite a while, in my case I'd say nearly three years, you kind of miss it. And you think: "Oh, but it was good at the start and we had such a nice time". I have actually found though in toxic romantic relationships and friendships that yes at the start they seem good and the person also has a lot of excuses for their bad behaviour. So when you're just getting to know them you give them the benefit of the doubt. I've found that people who have bad behaviours often have all these bs excuses and explanations for them. E.g. My ex has serious mental health and drug issues. At the start everything seemed good. Sometimes it became apparent he had anger issues and he'd lash out at people. But he'd say things like: "No please, you have to believe me, I was just having a bad day and it was that person that provoked me themselves". I guess I'm just gullible and too nice maybe but at the start I'd believe it.

With Rachael too she was having huge fights with a female roomate and also had a big falling out with a male roomate who was her friend. But she'd tell me it was their fault, that the female housemate was awful and she was bullying her. Then I found out some details that the reason why they were fighting was Rachael was doing some selfish stuff. E.g. leaving the kitchen light on during the night every single night because she just wanted it on and didn't care that three other housemates also had to pay the electricity bill.

So I think my problem is I get attached to people at the start and it's like I'm clinging on to who I *thought* they were or want them to be. It seems hard for me to accept they're actually not good now that I know them better and I need to let go of them.

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I love all your insights! I'm here to tell you the loss/pain subsides.  So a couple of years ago a friend of mine went MIA on me.  I was really hurt, could not understand why, grasped at straws.  I missed our weekly phone chats, seeing her when I was in my home city.

So a few months ago I was texting with a mutual friend. I made it a point never to mention her to this friend and certainly not in any negative way!  This time - we were chatting about old friends, friendships during the pandemic and I mentioned L was no longer in touch with me but that during the pandemic I'd seen that her MIL who lived with her passed away and sent her a condolence message to which she politely responded..  So all of a sudden she shares with me that L went MiA on her and it sounds like around that time!  I was shocked. 

Our mutual friend is the most unobjectionable pleasant person. I did not pry or gossip - my friend just said it did not surprise her at all . I'd love to know what she meant but I don't want to risk prying or putting her in an uncomfortable position.  all this time I assumed it was me.  Now it seems -maybe not?

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7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I love all your insights! I'm here to tell you the loss/pain subsides.  So a couple of years ago a friend of mine went MIA on me.  I was really hurt, could not understand why, grasped at straws.  I missed our weekly phone chats, seeing her when I was in my home city.

So a few months ago I was texting with a mutual friend. I made it a point never to mention her to this friend and certainly not in any negative way!  This time - we were chatting about old friends, friendships during the pandemic and I mentioned L was no longer in touch with me but that during the pandemic I'd seen that her MIL who lived with her passed away and sent her a condolence message to which she politely responded..  So all of a sudden she shares with me that L went MiA on her and it sounds like around that time!  I was shocked. 

Our mutual friend is the most unobjectionable pleasant person. I did not pry or gossip - my friend just said it did not surprise her at all . I'd love to know what she meant but I don't want to risk prying or putting her in an uncomfortable position.  all this time I assumed it was me.  Now it seems -maybe not?

Yes sometimes we don't really know why a friend drifts off but I guess they must have their reasons for it. I guess it's also why they have that saying "true friends are like diamonds. Precious, but rare". I think some people may seem like a good friend but they might be fair weather and just come and go when it suits them. Or some people only want to be friends depending on their own situation. E.g. If they're single and you're single, they want to be friends and hang out. But if they get a partner they lose all interest in you. I understand that having a partner means you don't have as much free time, but some people will actually totally ditch you and won't keep in touch at all. Or e.g. Someone had kids, but you don't, so they ditch you because your life isn't the same anymore. My best friend S has been with her husband for thirteen years and has kids but I never married and don't have kids. She has never abandoned me. I think that's what true friendship is.

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Another reason why I'm struggling too is because I was already starting to feel a bit lonely and not spend as much time with my friends. My best friend S of 17 years has been married with children for nine years. So since she got married and had the kids I haven't spent as much time with her. My other best friend Belinda and I were inseparable when we were younger and especially because she's five years younger than I, she wasn't married or anything yet so she had a fair bit of free time. A year ago she found a serious boyfriend and understandably since then hasn't been as free to hang out. She works full-time too and also visits her family and sees other friends. She's going to move in with her boyfriend soon.

I'm not jealous that she has a boyfriend (well a little envious) but it's more so that I began to really feel Belinda's absence. Not total absence of course. We used to talk basically every day and catch up once a week (occasionally twice) but then it reduced. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my actual expectation is for her to still make me her number one priority. I know she's found someone she loves and wants a future with, so of course he's the centre of her universe now. I just feel sad and nostalgic, that's all.

I do have other friends and not all are married or have kids, but they are still busy with their own lives. So I actually had been thinking that it's nice to be friends with Rachael because she's single, doesn't want kids, doesn't have a job. So she was really available to chat on Facebook a lot and catch up somewhat regularly too. Now I've ended the friendship with her it does feel a little empty because I have no Facebook chat going lol 

I'm not a bum or anything, I have a job (welfare for disability and mental health). It's just that I live alone, no pets and I'm single. So it was nice to have friends to chat to a lot and spend time with in my free time.

 

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9 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Another reason why I'm struggling too is because I was already starting to feel a bit lonely and not spend as much time with my friends. My best friend S of 17 years has been married with children for nine years. So since she got married and had the kids I haven't spent as much time with her. My other best friend Belinda and I were inseparable when we were younger and especially because she's five years younger than I, she wasn't married or anything yet so she had a fair bit of free time. A year ago she found a serious boyfriend and understandably since then hasn't been as free to hang out. She works full-time too and also visits her family and sees other friends. She's going to move in with her boyfriend soon.

I'm not jealous that she has a boyfriend (well a little envious) but it's more so that I began to really feel Belinda's absence. Not total absence of course. We used to talk basically every day and catch up once a week (occasionally twice) but then it reduced. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my actual expectation is for her to still make me her number one priority. I know she's found someone she loves and wants a future with, so of course he's the centre of her universe now. I just feel sad and nostalgic, that's all.

I do have other friends and not all are married or have kids, but they are still busy with their own lives. So I actually had been thinking that it's nice to be friends with Rachael because she's single, doesn't want kids, doesn't have a job. So she was really available to chat on Facebook a lot and catch up somewhat regularly too. Now I've ended the friendship with her it does feel a little empty because I have no Facebook chat going lol 

I'm not a bum or anything, I have a job (welfare for disability and mental health). It's just that I live alone, no pets and I'm single. So it was nice to have friends to chat to a lot and spend time with in my free time.

 

I understand.  You are not a bum 🙂

I think in some ways, this is two separate issues.  you are lonely.  I can relate.  I am, too.  It's hard with the pandemic.  I don't get out much and I keep my bubble super small for some of them have underlying issues and I can't risk a lot.  It would really ruin me, if I got someone else sick.  

But think about this.... I have come to realize, I can be lonely with a person that doesn't really meet my needs as a friend, than I can be when I am alone.

the solution is not surrounding yourself with a warm body.  The solution is to work on yourself more.  Enjoy your own company and also think about ways to make some new friends when the opportunity arises.  

Maybe start a journal on here.  I think a lot of people read them and talk to the poster.  So it's not just giving advise.  You know? 

Edited by Lambert
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4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Another reason why I'm struggling too is because I was already starting to feel a bit lonely and not spend as much time with my friends. My best friend S of 17 years has been married with children for nine years. So since she got married and had the kids I haven't spent as much time with her. My other best friend Belinda and I were inseparable when we were younger and especially because she's five years younger than I, she wasn't married or anything yet so she had a fair bit of free time. A year ago she found a serious boyfriend and understandably since then hasn't been as free to hang out. She works full-time too and also visits her family and sees other friends. She's going to move in with her boyfriend soon.

I'm not jealous that she has a boyfriend (well a little envious) but it's more so that I began to really feel Belinda's absence. Not total absence of course. We used to talk basically every day and catch up once a week (occasionally twice) but then it reduced. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my actual expectation is for her to still make me her number one priority. I know she's found someone she loves and wants a future with, so of course he's the centre of her universe now. I just feel sad and nostalgic, that's all.

I do have other friends and not all are married or have kids, but they are still busy with their own lives. So I actually had been thinking that it's nice to be friends with Rachael because she's single, doesn't want kids, doesn't have a job. So she was really available to chat on Facebook a lot and catch up somewhat regularly too. Now I've ended the friendship with her it does feel a little empty because I have no Facebook chat going lol 

I'm not a bum or anything, I have a job (welfare for disability and mental health). It's just that I live alone, no pets and I'm single. So it was nice to have friends to chat to a lot and spend time with in my free time.

 

Tinydance, I've lost a once, dear childhood cousin after an inevitable falling out.  She was my best friend until she crossed that line with "throwing me under the bus" or in other words, betrayal.  Her husband was equally worse.

Like you, I too mourned the loss of my cousin because we were extremely close during childhood and well into adulthood.  She has so many fine attributes.  Unfortunately, "once upon a time" innocent people become tainted and corrupt courtesy of their life's choices, whom they chose to marry or have relationships with and the cards they were dealt with causes them to become harsh, nasty and downright evil.  It's incredible to see the transformation from angel to devil over the decades.  Absolutely incredible.  

I miss my correspondence with her, we visited one another despite our 400 mile difference and our families were close.  My sons and her children were second cousins.

It's a shame for it to go all down the drain in an instant.  That's life. 

I'm sorry you're hurting because you've lost Belinda.  Look at this way:  It's better to be alone than feeling lonely with the wrong person in your life.  The wrong person causes you undue stress.  Whenever you eliminate unqualified people from your life, you reduce your stress.  Allow time to heal your wounds someday and eventually these bad experiences with Belinda will become a blur as is has for me. 

Friendships (or relationships) ALWAYS dissolve for a reason.  It wasn't meant to be.

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I hope it will be some relief to consider that's it's not necessary to 'break up' with a friend.

She flakes on your invitations? Decide why you keep inviting her.

She's skipping out on your confrontation? Why is that not a GOOD thing?

If what you want is distance, she's giving that to you. So what is the real problem?

You want to control what she reports to mutual friends? You can't have it both ways: accusing her of being controlling while expecting that you can control her conversations isn't reasonable. So why not just tell the pot-stirrers who report this to you to stop reporting it to you?

Stop taking about this person, be kind whenever she crosses your path, and beyond that, just flat-line her--and stop looking back.

Unless you're afraid that this person has some kind of blackmail material on you, consider that torturing yourself about your inability to control her is exactly the same stuff that you're accusing her of trying to do to you. 

Skip that, head high, and move yourself FORward.
You'll thank yourself later.

 

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