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Make or break or me being heady


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I recently started dating this guy after we spoke for a long time without meeting (almost 2 years). We always had a real great connection mentally and emotionally, and everything developed super organically between us. There was always a romantic atmosphere and we knew we’d eventually date when we were both ready to, and also when the distance was closed between us. However, during that time we were both single and allowed each other the freedom of course to date and explore life. We weren’t in a relationship, just had a lot of love for each other and felt a deep connection. We made this known constantly. 
 

Fast forward to now. We finally meet and the chemistry works in person. This was a big fear of both of ours- that this amazing vibe we’ve always enjoyed and looked forward to just wouldn’t translate in person and one of both of us would be left very depressed and empty. But that didn’t happen. We were comfortable, attracted, we had a lot of fun, it was sweet. And on top of that, the sexual chemistry was off the charts. Like, insane. 
 

Waiting for love and to establish a relationship before I have sex with someone is a big value of mine and has been a huge throughline of this relationship. He is very aware of this, he values this greatly (it is not his usual way of doing things but he loves that I take my time and go slow). We have had many conversations about this and he really seems to respect this so much and is so attracted to me because of this trait (among other things). 
 

Long story short, we had sex after only a few dates (our dates have been spread out over a month and a half, but we are exclusive to each other). The foreplay that night was intense, the tension was hot and dominant and everything we both like.  I was very hesitant to cross over into sex but it ended up happening because after we were being intimate for so long my brain finally gave in. During sex he said he loved me (we have said it before, but this was the first time it’s been said in person. He then also assured me very sweetly the next day that what he said during sex he consciously meant).

Since it all happened so fast without time for discussion ahead of time, I asked him after to take an std test for me (he did it. Sent it in about 5 days ago and is currently waiting for the results). 
 

It has been two weeks since that day. The first week was incredible. He couldn’t stop gushing about how secure and into this he was. I felt similar. We had a phone convo where I told him how I usually don’t ask guys “what are we” because personally I find that when a girl asks guys tend to feel pressure for some reason whereas when a guy brings it up on his own it’s more about  him coming to a decision. He agreed and said he loves that attitude and how secure I am about building the foundations of a relationship. He said this was going in the relationship direction for sure, he would be stupid to run from this, he couldn’t get better than me, I’m so beyond his wavelength, etc. He said he considers me his girlfriend and me his boyfriend if I want that unless I want to wait on that. For some reason I was a little caught off guard in the moment. I want that and I loved that he said this but I said “let’s wait on that” and sweetly added “so it can be said in person.” I think I said that because since I had brought up the convo in the first place I didn’t want him to feel pressured into saying it- that would have gone against the point I was trying to make in the first place. I realize now this was silly and I should have just said yes. Who know’s if he will ever say it again.  But since I made this statement about how I don’t ever bring up relationship “what are we’s” now I really trapped myself, huh? I’m bummed about this. 
 

After this amazing week, I got sick. Like, I just felt awful. I couldn’t see him for these two weeks and I had to cancel a couple opportunities to see him because of it. I felt like the momentum was lost a bit and I was feeling really down on myself and cooped up and insecure I think. All the way up until Wednesday we were having great conversations like normal. We were also really flirty and super sexual and into each other. But because of how I was feeling, and because I couldn’t see him for a while, I think my mind got the better of me. 

I started to sense that maybe he thought I was trying to get out of seeing him. That maybe I wasn’t sick. That I wanted to wait for the std results. Or just wait longer to have sex again since I originally wanted to build a relationship sex-free for a while in the first place (this is based on some things he hinted at). This idea, juxtaposed with the flirtation and sexual convos we were having , was I’m sure confusing for him. We end up having a phone call and I try to casual say that I want to do more out in the world with him, like datey things- drives, dinners, outings, etc., since I tend to get too comfortable just hanging out in the house. He takes this to mean that I’m feeling some type of way about getting sexual and fighting against the current of where things are going. He tells me we are going to do these things of course but that sex and doing other things aren’t mutually exclusive, it’s how you treat both. Let’s just develop organically, how we have been, he says. He reminds me it’s not rushed, we’ve known each other and built our bond so deeply for so long. I try to explain that I didn’t mean anything that deep and say I just meant I’ve been cooped up sick and I want to go out more and it’s not a big deal but it sounds like I’m backtracking and the whole thing becomes one of those weird dramatic convos that spirals and gets super awkward. We say goodnight. I tell him I like him and I miss him. He says he likes me too before we hang up. 

Ever since that convo (Wed) I sense him acting different. He’s still been texting but less. I just feel a change if that makes sense. I feel like he’s avoiding flirting sort of. I feel like he isn’t initiating anything super connective. I feel worried and like I have a bit of a needy energy now. And this isn’t typically like me, but I feel like it’s my fault. 

I told him I was free Sunday and feeling much better and he invited me over at 2 Pm during the day. To “spend all day.” First of all, I don’t know what that means. What does “spend all day” mean? When should I leave so as not to overstay my welcome. 6pm? I’m anxious about that. It’s also our first day date. I don’t know if that’s a downgrade. If it’s more friendly. We’re going to be working on music we wrote together. He did say miss you yesterday unprompted and today he said he’s excited to see me, but he also didn’t say goodnight tonight for the first time in months. 

I guess my main question is...could this little spell turn around? We’ve had a bond for so long, this isn’t some little thing. I don’t want to walk into a situation where it is obvious a guy is completely pulling away and done with me. However, maybe I’m completely getting heady and really nothing is happening at all. Maybe it takes a little while for a lull to get back on track? Would a guy still invite you over if he’s over it? Is this a make or break date? Should I address that weird convo and just say “hey the other day I was just sick and feeling tired and everything came out wrong?” Should I address it and say “hey you’re totally right about what you said. I’ve reflected and agree with you, let’s just go with the flow babe.” Should I just be chill and carefree and act confident and never bring it up again!? Will having a positive fun energy get him back into it if he’s feeling meh about it? Would a guy who hates needles stab himself a bunch of times for a decently expensive std test and end things before the results came in and he could start sleeping with that chick regularly? 
 

What’s my best bet here!? Lol 

 

I’m feeling fragile so thank you for reading with empathy and compassion. 

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You could just be honest with him! Let him know you kind of fumbled the last time you discussed the topic and you'd like to try again. Then let him know your thoughts. I don't think anyone r

4 dates is good. It means he's interested and it's going well. Try to be more confident rather than analyze everything he says. 4 dates. 4. Fast forwarding like this comes off as clingy

Girrrrllll, This is one major case of overthink and putting your foot in your mouth. In the last several interactions, you are over-worrying about appearances and acting inconsistent with wh

5 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

We finally meet and the chemistry works in person.

Was this a distance situation for 2 years? How did you decide to meet? You keep mentioning STDs and feeling sick, do you think either of you have covid, HIV, etc.?

Are these hookups or dates? What is it you wish to happen from this?

You are sending quite mixed messages of "being the cool chick" and wringing your hands with angst about where it's going.

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5 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

I guess my main question is...could this little spell turn around?

See how the date goes on Sunday. You specifically asked to do more "datey" things instead of sex. If he can't manage that, you have your answer.

Your entire post consists of you making excuses for this guy and second-guessing your own feelings of angst. Don't do that. You shouldn't have to prop a guy up to make him acceptable. Let him stand or fall by himself.

And stop with all of the "I don't want to look 'needy' crap." For god's sake, take a risk and ask for what you want in a relationship. If this guy can't give you what you need, on to the next. 

Don't persist with this relationship just because you've already invested two years into it. That would be a big mistake. Google "fallacy of sunk cost."

5 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

Would a guy still invite you over if he’s over it?

Sure, if he wants to have sex, and thinks he's got a shot at it with you.

5 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

Should I address it and say “hey you’re totally right about what you said. I’ve reflected and agree with you, let’s just go with the flow babe.”

Why would you do that? That's not what you want. Are you going to go into contortions to preserve an unsatisfying status quo just because this guy wants it this way? Talk about needy. You've got the whole concept backwards.

I think alarm bells are clanging in your head about this, and you should listen to them.

5 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

Would a guy who hates needles stab himself a bunch of times for a decently expensive std test and end things before the results came in and he could start sleeping with that chick regularly? 

If you were thinking clearly about this, you would realize a couple of things. First, an std test is a practical thing to get, whether you're afraid of needles or not, because people want to know their level of health and receive treatment for their ailments. Second, a clean bill of health would seal the deal with other girls besides you. Third, maybe he has herpes, or genital warts, or AIDS. People do get these things.

You're grasping at straws. You seem to be accepting any port in a storm.

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I think the cat is out of the bag -you had intercourse with him shortly after meeting him (no I don't think the typing and talking is relevant to getting to know someone in person for a romantic relationship) - so the traditional "i'm not going to seem overeager" is kind of nonsense -he's seen you naked, etc.  Many people change their minds after a few dates whether or not sex happens.  So be ready for that to happen -you enjoyed the sex, you chose not to wait and you benefited by having great sex and lots of fun!  The downside is you went against your typical values, you rushed things as far as sex with someone you'd only recently met in person so now you're feeling extra vulnerable and extra attached.

I'm really sorry you got sick.  I think again it's normal to have initial infatuation with a new person in your life.  He is very new for all practical purposes -before this he was a platonic online friend at most.  See if he will go on proper dates - you arrange them too -if you want to wait for him to ask you out go for it but I think when you choose to  have intercourse early on the traditional dating rules sometimes don't function the same way.

 

I hope you feel better in every way.

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Do you ever feel you are over- thinking all of this?

Are you driving yourself mad with all the thoughts re: this relationship?  Like maybe you have built things up in your head so much, that maybe you've set the bar too high?

How about going with the flow.. give yourselves time.  Time to just coast with it all, instead of continuing to go at this guy about 'what is'.. wondering about this & that.. and how all is going to be.

I feel you just don't seem to comfortable - and it you keep pestering the guy on how this is and all about this 'relationship;, he may just start feeling really uneasy and not know which way to turn or how to think.

Men do not think the way we do too often.  They like comfort & laid back.  Not all the emotional expectations - they 'show it' by being more physical ( read "Men are from Mars, Women Venus) and you'll learn how different we are from them.

So, I think, if you keep up with the pressure's of how should this be with us, how do you feel, what do you feel... This will send him over the edge.

So, calm down!  Enjoy each other's company and just let things roll as they are.

Sure, mention the idea of going for a drive sometime soon.. and watch a movie sitting in, etc.  And let things be.. let him enjoy your company.

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What you're telling him and what you actually want don't match up. You do want the label but you told him you're ok without it. You told him you want actual dates and then agree to yet another "Netflix and chill" at his house.

You felt comfortable enough to remove your clothing and have sex with him. So why don't you feel comfortable enough to tell him what you really want?

Are you trying to be the "cool chick"? If so, why? Are you afraid of "scaring him off"?

Edited by boltnrun
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Way, way, waaaaaayyyy too much overthinking here.  You are hopping all over the place.  I couldn't keep up.  I don't even really know what it is YOU want, let alone what HE wants.  I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't as confused as you are.

Things really don't need to be this difficult.  There is far too much online chatting and texting these days and not enough REAL time spent together.  The time spent chatting/texting then gets confused with real time.  On the one hand, you feel you have known him long enough to have sex with him but, on the other hand, you're second guessing your actions because, in reality, it is only your first meet up.  At the end of the day, it takes two people to have sex.  He was having sex as well.  That isn't all on YOU.  No explanation needed.  

You've mentioned the word "organically" a couple of times but I've yet to see that.  Until you let that happen, I don't think either of you can know where this is going. So, relax, enjoy the day for what it is and just be YOU.  Have fun and see where things go - organically!

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On 3/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, boltnrun said:

What you're telling him and what you actually want don't match up. You do want the label but you told him you're ok without it. You told him you want actual dates and then agree to yet another "Netflix and chill" at his house.

You felt comfortable enough to remove your clothing and have sex with him. So why don't you feel comfortable enough to tell him what you really want?

Are you trying to be the "cool chick"? If so, why? Are you afraid of "scaring him off"?

These are good questions.

I feel a lot better and things are going well. I saw him Sunday and we took a long drive, we went on a small walk, he cooked me dinner, we wrote a song. That’s all I meant by doing things as well as staying in. He’s been good with that. 

So yes, I do want the label. I think lots of women probably know they eventually want to get to a label place with someone but don’t want to rush it too soon. Him and I are usually very good at communicating about these types of things, too. In his past has in the past been a little of a commitment phobe (since his divorce a few years ago he has yet to have an official girlfriend). The way both of us have gone about developing our relationship is different than the norm and the amount of time we’ve put into getting to know each other deeply has made what we have really special. He is as open as he has ever been to a relationship, truly. He does see and want that with me and I believe it. He has mentioned this to others without knowing it would get back to me. He also of course has said things in this vein to me. We’ve said we love each other as well which I know is a huge step for him. 
 

Now, when I told him that I don’t like to ask a guy “what are we” it had come up in the context of a quick conversation. It pertained to a larger casual topic we were discussing. I didn’t think much of saying that at the time because it is actually what I feel, but also, for some reason I assumed he’d just take in what I said and that would be that. Then, he’d eventually ask me one day. To my surprise, he started talking about us and said “you’re my girlfriend and I’m your boyfriend if you want to be unless you think we should wait on that” ....and I just knee-jerk said we should wait on that. I sweetly added/tried to recover “so that can be said in person.” I feel silly that I said that all. It was a mistake and a stupid thing to say. I was probably just surprised and also felt like since I had brought up the topic in the first place, was that a backwards way of asking what we were? I didn’t want him to ever look back and think that. Bottom line,  I got in my own head. 
 

Since then, he has, during another unrelated convo about someone else, referenced this about me in a positive light, as if it was a wonderfully secure trait of mine, so it’s not like he forgot it.  He said, while telling me a story,  “...it’s similar to how you won’t ask a guy if he’s your boyfriend you allow him to come to that decision on his own..!”

So anyway, now I’m really in a pickle because it seems like we were righhhht there and I messed it up. It also somehow seems like since I asked to wait on it (dumb me) the waiting is going to be indefinite. 
 

If you have any advice for bringing this topic up eventually without seemingly “asking what we are” that would be awesome. 
 

 

Edited by whiteroses3230
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On 3/27/2021 at 8:22 AM, Wiseman2 said:

Was this a distance situation for 2 years? How did you decide to meet? You keep mentioning STDs and feeling sick, do you think either of you have covid, HIV, etc.?

Are these hookups or dates? What is it you wish to happen from this?

You are sending quite mixed messages of "being the cool chick" and wringing your hands with angst about where it's going.

2.5 hours of distance. We could have dated but decided not to until the gap was closed. I was always going to be moving closer. We knew that the whole 1.5 years. Once I moved I waited till I was all set up in my new home and settled for 2 months still before we started dating (that was hard but I think smart. It would have been a lot to just be in a new place and have an instant “relationship” there). So now it’s a real date situation. 
 

I don’t know why but I’m just super into sex safety. I’m very safe and big on protection, etc. I don’t sleep around (I’m in my young 30’s and can count the number of people I’ve slept with on one hand!). But he’s a new partner and has slept with more people than me. I wanted him to get tested. It’s just good to know I think. 
 

I was just sick. Didn’t feel well. Not Covid. He actually has the vaccine now, too. 
 

I’d like a relationship to come from this. 
 

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4 dates is good. It means he's interested and it's going well.

Try to be more confident rather than analyze everything he says.

4 dates. 4.

Fast forwarding like this comes off as clingy needy and unattractive.

Slow your roll. He is not commitmentphobic. That's a made up word. He's divorced.

This is a time to get to know him and evaluate whether he's a good fit for you.

It's not a time to overinvest, overanalyze, overshare,etc.

Groveling, indirectly no less, about "please be my BF", comes off as desperate. It's going well,relax.

This is 4 dates. Not an engagement or marriage.

Make sure you are over your last relationship. Be careful about TMI. 

You're dating, not relationshiping

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1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

4 dates is good. It means he's interested and it's going well.

Try to be more confident rather than analyze everything he says.

4 dates. 4. Fast forwarding like this comes off as clingy needy and unattractive.

Slow your roll. He is not commitmentphobic. That's a made up word. He's divorced.

Yea. That’s true. I tend to get anxious and overthink. When I get like that it probably seems dramatic and I know guys don’t love that vibe. When I’m comfortable and not in my head I’m the coolest chick you’ll ever know. Haha. 
 

He has mentioned a lot of future things casually. “I’m gonna show you this” “We’ll go back here” “We could record our song at my best friend’s place..” I need to just trust that they’ll happen and stop trying to get proof of everything. That’s my issue. 

 

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13 minutes ago, whiteroses3230 said:

He has mentioned a lot of future things casually. I need to just trust that they’ll happen 

Future talk is a huge red flag. Only believe and focus on the actual real-time situation.

Future talk is like a magician's cape waved around to distract you. Stop gobbling that up as a good thing.

Don't "trust that they'll happen". Unless you are there in real-time actually doing something it's just air.

4 dates. 4. Just keep saying that to yourself.

You're much too overinvested.

Do not focus on future talk.

It's as meaningless as saying "next week it's going to rain". It's small talk, not actually factual plans 

 

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To distract me from what, though? Well, it’s not completely meaningless. Like, making plans to do something is as good as a fact as you’re gonna get in advance of actually doing the thing.  This isn’t a brand new guy I met who is saying “oh I’m gonna take you to Paris one day,” these are just regular things that come up in regular conversations when we are together. I was simply using it as a barometer of him being obviously content. I won’t hang on it much. 
 

This is a man who I’ve talked to every day for 1.5 years so there is a sliiiight difference in tone when it comes to how much we know about each other. The TMI ship has likely sailed. We know a lottttt about each other. We’ve cried together. We’ve been there for each other in hard times. Etc. It’s just a little different because now it’s real-life in-person-here-we-are-doing-the-damn-thing. 

Edited by whiteroses3230
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1 hour ago, whiteroses3230 said:

Thank you everyone. I saw him Sunday and we had a wonderful time. It was our 4th official date I suppose and it was very fun and natural. 

Fabulous.  Now, don't go overthinking things.  Just go with the flow.  

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13 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

He asked me out again for Thursday so that will be number 5. That’s positive I suppose. 

It is as positive as it can be at this stage!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update if anyone sees this: we have seen each other 7 times now. He was on a 6 day trip last week for photography and brought me back a mini present (super mini- green tea from the national park, but it was a sweet thought!). We have plans to see each other an 8th time and then future plans beyond that possibly because he invited me more than once to come see him perform with his best friend. They are in a guitar duo that has a gig at a restaurant nearby. He doesn’t invite people to come see him or anything like that, it would just be me and I would also be meeting his best friend. I suppose this counts. 
 

I am keeping our time together fun and getting out of my head now. Not overthinking as much as I can, taking the advice provided so I don’t ruin a good thing. 
 

Recently his ex wife (they divorced a few years ago) told him she is seeing someone new in a serious way, serious enough that she wants this new man to meet their young child. It freaked him out a bit, understandably. I think it forced him to think of all these future possible family-related scenarios between them that he’s never really had to confront before. He vented a lot to me about it. It’s obviously a little stressful for him to have his child meet another man for the first time.  

I’m feeling obviously like this would be the WRONG time to go anywhere near a boyfriend/girlfriend commitment style talk about US (haha)...but what do you think? 
 

Give it another month? Longer? Any advice here on how long to wait? 
 

 

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2 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

He vented a lot to me about it.

If he's doing this, he's not ready to date (yes, ready to have sex and convince himself he's "moved on").

The focus should be on building your relationship, not his custody/ex issues..

Unless he's paying you $250/hr as an attorney/therapist, you're wasting your time.

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2 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

I’m feeling obviously like this would be the WRONG time to go anywhere near a boyfriend/girlfriend commitment style talk about US (haha)...but what do you think?

I think that you should go for what you want in life.

And what do you want more: A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, or to be with this guy no matter what the cost?

What does a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship mean to you? Can he give you that? How long are you willing to wait, if he can't?

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I’m comfortable waiting a bit longer. Maybe a month? That would be about 3 months of exclusive dating. I enjoy now where we are at. I do feel like it has been moving in a positive direction.  But I want it to eventually be fully committed. I would find a real nice emotional security in that. I don’t need to rush into that though and I certainly don’t want to bring it up at the wrong time. 
 

As for the venting. We have a relationship where we always speak very “freely” with each other when it comes to our emotions regarding exes, pasts, etc. so I wouldn’t say it was unusual for him to speak this way. I speak this way too. I appreciate that quality/honesty. However, the circumstances were certainly new for him. On one hand though, I do think it’s somewhat normal to have these feelings come up when confronted with this type of situation.  But you’d say he’s just completely not ready? That I should abandon ship?
 

 

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Unfortunately he's throwing up a lot of roadblocks to the type of relationship you describe that you wish you had.

If you both enjoy talking about your past battle scars with exes that's fine as far as chitchat, idle companionship,etc.,  but it's not building anything between you two.

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13 hours ago, whiteroses3230 said:

I’m comfortable waiting a bit longer. Maybe a month? That would be about 3 months of exclusive dating. I enjoy now where we are at. I do feel like it has been moving in a positive direction.  But I want it to eventually be fully committed. I would find a real nice emotional security in that. I don’t need to rush into that though and I certainly don’t want to bring it up at the wrong time. 

But what are you looking for in a relationship? If he said, "Fine, we're officially together," would that alone really equal emotional security?

If you're looking for a committed, long term relationship, that is complete with emotional security, you need to hammer down what you want and stick to that list. 

It's really not enough to like him, or the idea of being with him.

I don't see a lot of security in a man who is still navigating the aftermath of his divorce.

 

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