I'm not sure what to think of this

[Rose Mosse]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

When he said about the dog, we were totally sober. Or at least I was. I actually said I didn't want to drink at all and that was when I came to his house. Actually that wasn't all he said about the dog. He knew how much I adored the dog and he said I can come see the dog anytime. He actually said I can borrow him! Like I can have him at my place and take him on walks and stuff! He even said I could take the dog to my parents house to introduce it to their dog!

I think he likes you a lot and wants to impress you but it is coming out awkwardly. I don't know, Tiny. He sounds a bit like a pushy salesperson and it's not that all salespeople are pushy. It only feels like he has an agenda because he's trying so hard. 

So he's got the dog, the car, the apartment, the business(es)... but you aren't sure about whether you're attracted to him. You mentioned you're not sure about his face and were saying it's what's on the inside that counts. I agree with you but there should be some physical chemistry too. 

I think it's so disrespectful that he spent the first movie you both watched together fondling your breasts. You're right to have your alarm bells ringing but they should be going off even if he didn't say a word about not being into sex right off the bat. 

All the confusion reads only to me as someone very inexperienced, also awkward as previously mentioned and honestly a bit too much to handle. It's up to you if you have the energy to continue stating and reinforcing boundaries because I don't think he has any clue what to do on dates. 

I suppose some might find all this exuberance endearing. It depends what you're into and what you see for yourself and what you're attracted to. 

[reinventmyself]

I've had those moments with men like this where I picture myself  unsrewing my head like a barbie doll.   Remember, you can pop their heads off and just replace it with another?

You touched on so many valid points here.  He didn't really seem interested in knowing You. That and the hard sell might make anyone fell like he would be interested in anyone that's merely vertical and breathing.

It also can be a very cultural thing.  Don't forget, some countries have arranged marriages.  It can be a practical thing to do.  It can also be a very impulsive and dangerous thing to do.

I would test his patience.  He's already shown you a flicker of his lack of it.  . . professing he would wait for sex and then paw you the first time he gets you alone and challenging your no repeatedly, when you wanted to abide by a stay at home order. 

Don't be lulled into thinking his persistence makes you special.  No doubt you are, but this likely has more to do with his pattern of fast tracking women into a relationship when they aren't ready.  It's vulnerable women that fall for this.  You need to ask yourself if you are this vulnerable.

Personally, I would throw this one back.  I am turned off by anyone he talks about themselves endlessly and isn't remotely interested in who I am.  At the same time i totally support you if you want to give this more time to figure out.

 

[shellyf62]

Maybe his family is pushing him to have children, so this is his motivation to find a partner asap?

[Capricorn3]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

 It sounds like he tells women what he thinks they want to hear. He seems pretty desperate to be a ladies man. Luckily you see through all the bull and hype.

Hopefully. ~fingers crossed~   Sometimes desperate people are so blinded to all the red flags waving around and totally miss all the creep factor +10.

[Batya33]

On the ordering drinks thing -I completely agree -wayyyy too many drinks to order with a near stranger -and pricey too.  But I'll share this.  About 15 years ago I went on a few dates with a slightly older, wealthy, successful guy.  Divorced.  Turned out -even though we met through a dating site -I knew of his ex wife.  Oops.  Anyway on our third and final date he took me to a really fancy and expensive restaurant -his choice and yes he could afford it.  I am a total lightweight - meaning half a glass of wine and I am done, I am not buzzed but that's my limit and I could get buzzed if on an empty stomach. 

So he was trying to impress me and wanted to order a bottle of wine.  I was very clear with him that it would be a waste since if I had my half glass that would be a lot.  Well, he insisted, and drank most of it.  I drank my half glass.  He was kind of drunk (but not driving anywhere) -after he wanted to continue the evening and we went to a jazz club -I agreed thinking - well, he spent all this $ on dinner, I'll pay for the cover charge-his drinks -at the club.  From what I recall he wouldn't let me.  Anyway he was a gentleman and ended up marrying a very submissive woman from what I recall.  My point is on the drinking thing sometimes it's the guy who insists on ordering lots of drinks even when the woman declines, as I did.

[Capricorn3]

OP, are you still going to see him?

[maritalbliss86]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:57 PM, Batya33 said:

My point is on the drinking thing sometimes it's the guy who insists on ordering lots of drinks even when the woman declines, as I did.

That makes sense.  Still... I don't think she should be drinking at all at this point.  Her health is more important than dating I would think.

And there's something to gain by being brutally honest with this guy about why she's not drinking anymore... and where she's at in her journey on recovery.  It will either scare him away (and be a good shock to him what he was about to do), or he may actually help her through it, because maybe he really does like her (?).  

I think he's honest.  He just wants to get married and have babies (LOL).  If was in Tiny's shoes and if I didn't like him, I would be kind and tell him he needs to use some of his money to hire a good match maker affiliated with his country/culture, I would specifically tell him in a kind way, he's not coming across well in ours.  The matchmakers are still out there, and this guy needs it! 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

That makes sense.  Still... I don't think she should be drinking at all at this point.  Her health is more important than dating I would think.

And there's something to gain by being brutally honest with this guy about why she's not drinking anymore... and where she's at in her journey on recovery.  It will either scare him away (and be a good shock to him what he was about to do), or he may actually help her through it, because maybe he really does like her (?).  

I think he's honest.  He just wants to get married and have babies (LOL).  If was in Tiny's shoes and if I didn't like him, I would be kind and tell him he needs to use some of his money to hire a good match maker affiliated with his country/culture, I would specifically tell him in a kind way, he's not coming across well in ours.  The matchmakers are still out there, and this guy needs it! 

I would have zero interaction with him.  I don't agree with your assessment given the red flags in his behavior.  I agree about the drinking for sure- that she should not be particularly because her goal is to have a biological child -for that your body needs to be in optimal shape!

[boltnrun]

I would not continue to date a man who gropes my breasts after I already told him no sex. 

[Hollyj]

Tiny, where are you?

[Hollyj]

2 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

That makes sense.  Still... I don't think she should be drinking at all at this point.  Her health is more important than dating I would think.

And there's something to gain by being brutally honest with this guy about why she's not drinking anymore... and where she's at in her journey on recovery.  It will either scare him away (and be a good shock to him what he was about to do), or he may actually help her through it, because maybe he really does like her (?).  

I think he's honest.  He just wants to get married and have babies (LOL).  If was in Tiny's shoes and if I didn't like him, I would be kind and tell him he needs to use some of his money to hire a good match maker affiliated with his country/culture, I would specifically tell him in a kind way, he's not coming across well in ours.  The matchmakers are still out there, and this guy needs it! 

I doubt it would make any difference if she spoke to him.  The best thing she can do is disappear.

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I would not continue to date a man who gropes my breasts after I already told him no sex. 

If Tiny wasn't OK with that, there's no need to put up with it.  Just tell him NO or to Stop.  

[catfeeder]

I'd have no trouble walking away from a guy who started fondling me right after volunteering that he wanted to get to know me before getting sexual.

That would make me about as curious about him as he seems to be about you. Zip.

[Tinydance]

I'm here sorry! Lol Well I actually spoke to him and I was very honest and said that his behaviour actually is too much for me and it's moving very fast. I said that the fact that he hasn't really had much general conversation over the three dates and mainly about his financial successes and how much he wants kids, he can't really know the real me yet. Also I said that I do want kids but probably not this year due to the COVID situation. So I said I don't really want to discuss about having kids on every date because I already know he wants kids and I do too, so that's been established. We know we're looking for the same things in a relationship so the dates should just be about getting to know each other more. So I basically said things along those lines. I also said I do feel bad that he paid for me and maybe I could send a gift for his dog. But I did give his dog a ball already before.

He sent me these messages:

"I can see now how I came across too strong about those things when I didn't mean too, I'm someone that like to take things slowly and really get to know someone. Probably a good person like you is hard to find so I got too excited.  I do like to get to know you more, we couldn't talk much at the bar so loud and then during the movie.   Don't feel bad if I pay for dinner and drinks, sorry I'm old fashion and can't change and I it's all unconditional, and you got my dog a gift already!
I never meant kids this year or next year, it's only an option in the future with my partner.   I can see that we hardly know each other from these messages.  I do want to get to know you more and go on road trips to get to know each other.  But if you don't feel like it or give it a chance then we can just leave it, it's ok with me.  I never try to make anyone liking me, it has to be naturally..."

"And probably the 3rd lockdown making me rushing thing too as last year long lockdown by myself was tough.  I can be misunderstood most times but it's ok.  I know you enough to know that you're great, I'm not just saying that.
At this stage of my life I want to make the decision with my head and hope my heart will follow.
I'm not good with text messages and probably not making much sense.  If you want to catch up 1 more time to chat let me know.  If not it's ok too.
The main thing is that I hope you get tbrough all this stressful thing with your ex and enjoy life."

So the messages are nice and everything but I didn't pursue catching up again, so we haven't spoken the last few days. I think to be honest I wanted to get to know him and just keep spending time together, but I did find it off putting what he kept talking about.

I must admit, maybe I haven't realised that it's actually hard for some men who want kids and marriage to find someone. I know in some cases that's probably for a reason, like there is something off putting about them or their behaviour is bad. I find it really hard to find someone but I just thought that's because more women want to settle down with kids than men, so it's competitive. This guy is not attractive and he's nearly 48. He did say that he didn't want kids until 35 and then he happened to date women who had kids already and didn't want more, or it just didn't work out with some women. I understand the not working out part because I've always wanted kids but I'm 36 and I also never married and don't have kids. Now I guess he really has gotten desperate and he's not even trying to hide it.

He actually said he thought about using a surrogate to have a baby. But unfortunately in Australia we don't really have that because it's illegal to pay money to a surrogate mother. It just has to be a goodwill gesture for free, so it's very rare that a woman will be a surrogate, unless it's for family members or very close friends. He also said he thought about adopting but it's not really possible to adopt just as a single man. 

On the first date he said to me: "You're nice and talkative, I can't believe you're still single".  Just all these comments though made me feel weird because he'd been saying I'm so amazing and so on. That he can't believe I'm single and I'm with him and everything. The reason why I was suspicious is because aside from being nice and educated, I'm just more or less your average person. I'm cute but not super stunning and I'm a larger woman (size 16 UK/Australia, 42 European, 14 US). 

So it was on the first date that he said about wanting to be a father and adopting and using a surrogate and all that. So I wasn't sure if also he's projecting on me a lot because I also said I want to have kids. And he's so desperate to be a father so the fact that a decent woman is dating him and also wants kids made me look really amazing in his mind lol

Another thing too was that when we only just met at the singles event for the first time, he said he loves going on road trips. I said I do too and last time lockdown eased off in May last year, I went on a 2.5 hour drive road trip to the ocean by myself. I'm a friendly person  so I chatted about road trips to him and stuff. But we didn't actually talk super long or anything. He actually said then that we should go on a road trip together. I pretty much thought it was just a flirtation tactic or a joke to say that. Coz we very literally only just met like an hour ago at that point. So I didn't actually think anything of it to be honest. But after having seen how full-on his approach to dating is, I wonder if he was even serious or half serious?

[Tinydance]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:18 AM, reinventmyself said:

I've had those moments with men like this where I picture myself  unsrewing my head like a barbie doll.   Remember, you can pop their heads off and just replace it with another?

You touched on so many valid points here.  He didn't really seem interested in knowing You. That and the hard sell might make anyone fell like he would be interested in anyone that's merely vertical and breathing.

It also can be a very cultural thing.  Don't forget, some countries have arranged marriages.  It can be a practical thing to do.  It can also be a very impulsive and dangerous thing to do.

I would test his patience.  He's already shown you a flicker of his lack of it.  . . professing he would wait for sex and then paw you the first time he gets you alone and challenging your no repeatedly, when you wanted to abide by a stay at home order. 

Don't be lulled into thinking his persistence makes you special.  No doubt you are, but this likely has more to do with his pattern of fast tracking women into a relationship when they aren't ready.  It's vulnerable women that fall for this.  You need to ask yourself if you are this vulnerable.

Personally, I would throw this one back.  I am turned off by anyone he talks about themselves endlessly and isn't remotely interested in who I am.  At the same time i totally support you if you want to give this more time to figure out.

 

Thank you for the advice. Well I'm actually not interested in arranged marriage or even marriage where I only just settle. I am struggling to find the right person but I do get dates so I'm not entirely desperate. Also using an IVF donor is widely available in Australia. All Australian citizens have Medicare and Medicare actually pays for some of the costs of artificial insemination from a donor. My gynaecologist works for a hospital IVF clinic and we'd already discussed it and he told me it only costs about $2200 out of pocket to get pregnant from a donor. So not that much really considering you're spending that to have a child of your own. Additionally my close male friend who I've known for 6-7 years also said he can be a donor for me. He's a handsome and really nice guy who is a school teacher. I prefer the donor option more than arranged marriage or just settling for someone I don't even love. I want to be in a real relationship and locking myself into a "fake" marriage will mean I can't find someone I actually want to be with for real. I could spend years wasting my time like that on the wrong person. Life is short so why live it like that. That's just my feelings on it though and I don't come from a culture that had any arranged marriage.

[Batya33]

My husband and I were 38 and 39 (me) when we got back together.  We both really wanted kids.  But healthy, reasonable people who really want kids and feel like time is running out choose not to be pushy and act  desperate and boast about what a catch they are.  They choose to conduct themselves in a normal, respectful, give and take way even if inside they are feeling a bit desperate.  Certainly you can see this person again in public and it's great you were open with him.

It sounds like you're comfortable creating a child outside of a marriage or committed partnership.  Please please commit to your health first as far as your behavior with alcohol.  When I started trying to conceive I was almost 41 and in very good health.  And the pregnancy still really took a scary toll on my body.  

[Tinydance]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

My husband and I were 38 and 39 (me) when we got back together.  We both really wanted kids.  But healthy, reasonable people who really want kids and feel like time is running out choose not to be pushy and act  desperate and boast about what a catch they are.  They choose to conduct themselves in a normal, respectful, give and take way even if inside they are feeling a bit desperate.  Certainly you can see this person again in public and it's great you were open with him.

It sounds like you're comfortable creating a child outside of a marriage or committed partnership.  Please please commit to your health first as far as your behavior with alcohol.  When I started trying to conceive I was almost 41 and in very good health.  And the pregnancy still really took a scary toll on my body.  

Yes you are absolutely right about me working on my drinking problem and my Mum also said the same to me. Of course it's for health but it's also to be able to be a good mother to a child. And to be a good role model.

I agree with you that just because someone wants a child there is no need to be desperate. In particular before bringing up about children someone should get to know the person  they're dating more. I just don't understand this mindset that any woman who looks decent and seems nice is already qualified to be the mother of his children from the first meeting. Though I'm not sure whether sometimes some non Western cultures are genuinely of that mindset (maybe not everyone of course). Like, it's a bit transactional in the sense that you just have to think the person is OK looking and they want kids and marriage, you don't need to know a lot about them or even love them or anything. I'm not saying it's arranged marriage necessarily in the sense that parents force you to marry someone. It's more like two people who just want kids and marriage and think each other is OK and "will do". So they just make a decision to marry and have kids.

Another thing was that guy said on the second date: "I think we have a lot in common". But I actually don't think that we do. He talked about road trips and his dog, so I said I also love dogs and road trips. So we have those two things in common but he never asked me anything else about myself. I have a very wide range of interests which he had no idea about because he didn't ask many questions at all. I don't think he shares any of my interests except dogs and road trips and just your general things that anybody likes. Like going for a coffee and out for dinner. My other interests are costumes/cosplay, pub trivia, board games, collecting cute things (unicorns, sloths, llamas, mermaids), creative writing, horror, markets, etc. He didn't seem to be into any of that so in fact we don't have much in common.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Yes you are absolutely right about me working on my drinking problem and my Mum also said the same to me. Of course it's for health but it's also to be able to be a good mother to a child. And to be a good role model.

I agree with you that just because someone wants a child there is no need to be desperate. In particular before bringing up about children someone should get to know the person  they're dating more. I just don't understand this mindset that any woman who looks decent and seems nice is already qualified to be the mother of his children from the first meeting. Though I'm not sure whether sometimes some non Western cultures are genuinely of that mindset (maybe not everyone of course). Like, it's a bit transactional in the sense that you just have to think the person is OK looking and they want kids and marriage, you don't need to know a lot about them or even love them or anything. I'm not saying it's arranged marriage necessarily in the sense that parents force you to marry someone. It's more like two people who just want kids and marriage and think each other is OK and "will do". So they just make a decision to marry and have kids.

Another thing was that guy said on the second date: "I think we have a lot in common". But I actually don't think that we do. He talked about road trips and his dog, so I said I also love dogs and road trips. So we have those two things in common but he never asked me anything else about myself. I have a very wide range of interests which he had no idea about because he didn't ask many questions at all. I don't think he shares any of my interests except dogs and road trips and just your general things that anybody likes. Like going for a coffee and out for dinner. My other interests are costumes/cosplay, pub trivia, board games, collecting cute things (unicorns, sloths, llamas, mermaids), creative writing, horror, markets, etc. He didn't seem to be into any of that so in fact we don't have much in common.

But you don't have to understand.  This particular individual took this particular approach.  Please don't generalize - you wouldn't want someone generalizing about you.  Yes you will have to be a good mother and father to a child you have on your own - in a manner of speaking.  Role model is the least of it. It's about physical safety of the child and it's about the child not having fetal alcohol syndrome.  For example.  It's hard enough to care for a baby when you're desperately sleep deprived or ill but if heaven forbid you were buzzed or drunk and dropped your child or forgot about your child in the bath, or didn't pay attention to the temperature of the bottle you were giving her, etc. 

I mean, please -you're talking about doing this on your own and having the child not have a father who is married to you or committed to you - so yes you have to be in tip top physical shape and able to be 100% alert especially with an infant and with any small child.  I solo parented a lot.  Including when I was ill ,when I was exhausted -and I never even took a sleeping aid because it was all me, 100% responsibility for his safety and well being. 

Forget about role model.  It's an awesome, daunting often overwhelming responsibility.  And yes at times I was desperate for a sleep aid which don't knock me out just so I could get actual stretch of sleep and if my husband wasn't home, no go and even if he was I was too scared not to have both of us alert and ready just in case.  

[Tinydance]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

But you don't have to understand.  This particular individual took this particular approach.  Please don't generalize - you wouldn't want someone generalizing about you.  Yes you will have to be a good mother and father to a child you have on your own - in a manner of speaking.  Role model is the least of it. It's about physical safety of the child and it's about the child not having fetal alcohol syndrome.  For example.  It's hard enough to care for a baby when you're desperately sleep deprived or ill but if heaven forbid you were buzzed or drunk and dropped your child or forgot about your child in the bath, or didn't pay attention to the temperature of the bottle you were giving her, etc. 

I mean, please -you're talking about doing this on your own and having the child not have a father who is married to you or committed to you - so yes you have to be in tip top physical shape and able to be 100% alert especially with an infant and with any small child.  I solo parented a lot.  Including when I was ill ,when I was exhausted -and I never even took a sleeping aid because it was all me, 100% responsibility for his safety and well being. 

Forget about role model.  It's an awesome, daunting often overwhelming responsibility.  And yes at times I was desperate for a sleep aid which don't knock me out just so I could get actual stretch of sleep and if my husband wasn't home, no go and even if he was I was too scared not to have both of us alert and ready just in case.  

No you are right, I probably sounded rude saying it's just a cultural thing but obviously not all people from particular cultures act like this. It's only just something I've noticed with some men from another culture but it was only three men really. Doesn't mean it's everyone of course. Also this guy is 47-48 but according to him his family moved to Australia when he was ten years old. So he's lived here all his life and he said most of his friends and his best friend are Australian. So I don't think he should even be that traditional technically.

Yes regarding the drinking I am receiving help and seeing my counsellor. I did consider going into rehab too but I just need to figure out what to do about my job as I am casual there. I'm not sure if I can come back to the job and I was just worried that during COVID so many people lost their job and it's very hard right now. It's very competitive to get a job. Not to mention they took care of me during a 6 month hard lockdown where I wasn't allowed to work. My job placed me on a government supplement for people who have a job but the job is suspended due to COVID. If I didn't have a job  I'd just have been on an unemployment benefit which is much less money. I've been at my job for 4.5 years so don't want to lose it. I'll try to look into the support meetings like AA and others and maybe do some day programmes or weekend programmes if available to start with.

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I do want to get to know you more and go on road trips to get to know each other.

LOL... he does come across very strange.

Road-trips where???  

To my death?!?  😂

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

At this stage of my life I want to make the decision with my head and hope my heart will follow.

LOL... that just does not sound good.  Poor guy....

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I'm not good with text messages and probably not making much sense.

No, you're not Mr....  Maybe you should consider hiring someone for that.... 😂

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I'm a friendly person  so I chatted about road trips to him and stuff.

Oh good... so that's where the, "I'd like to take you on road trips..." talk comes from.  

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

It's more like two people who just want kids and marriage and think each other is OK and "will do". So they just make a decision to marry and have kids.

An official matchmaker sets the paying customer up on dates where they see if anyone has real chemistry together.  

The matchmaker uses her extensive network of all the singles in their area (specifically culture based), and she is generally very well-connected and serves multiple groups and families all at the same time, and she gets to know each paying customer personally, so that she can figure out which guys (or women) SHE thinks would be a great match for the customer.

And then they go on lots of dates, usually with the different people the matchmaker has hand-picked herself that seem tailored to the customer.

It actually really works well.  Obviously many only go on one date, but it's nice to have an older, wise woman picking people for you based on your personality, all your likes and dislikes etc.  

And it seems easier for the men in those cultures to find women that way.  All the work is basically done for them, and they just have to choose with woman they have chemistry with.

[Tinydance]

8 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

LOL... that just does not sound good.  Poor guy....

No, you're not Mr....  Maybe you should consider hiring someone for that.... 😂

Oh good... so that's where the, "I'd like to take you on road trips..." talk comes from.  

Yes but as I mentioned, he said we should go on a road trip together literally as we just met at the singles event. I honestly thought it was just a joke/flirtation. I didn't think someone would want to go on a road trip with someone they very literally just met.

[Batya33]

You are being very proactive!  Good for you !   I totally understand about your job. 

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You are being very proactive!  Good for you !   I totally understand about your job. 

Thank you 🙂 Yes my job has been  very important to me. I don't drink at work or right before work or anything like that. I do have to drive in my job as well. If it wasn't COVID I think I'd have a better idea of where to go in life. E.g. rehab, to have a baby, etc. I just don't feel secure currently with the COVID situation so I decided not to make any big decisions until COVID is mostly cleared. Which I imagine might be only at the end of this year, if that.