Growth.. how do you outgrow old habits?

[sfindependent]

Coming put of a relationship, twisted and hurt. 

Honestly, i want another chance with my ex. But either that's moot point or it'll be forever until we even get close to having a superficial conversation. I never blamed her for anything. I know and own every mistake I did that led to where I am today. 

So I move on. 

Its been a few months now. Broke up somewhere between September and October of 2020. Since then, she had moved to a different state. She tried giving low contact a chance but she felt the wounds never healed and ultimately went NC. I got the hint one day when she quietly unfriended me from all social media. I did the same and unfollowed her as well.

I havent reached out and have been on NC Since November, except once in January of 2021 when I mailed her a small box of her mail (we lived together for a bit). I included some of her personal belongings she left, a cook book and a couple of chilis I know she loves. I didnt leave a note or letter, didn't expect her to respond nor did I want anything in return. 

Personally I've been seeing a therapist. I've been seeing an addiction specialist as well, who insists i dont need her services. Ive also started seeing a credit specialist to help me with my credit and finances and have been to date casually. Pandemic obviously plays a big role in dating but that's another story. 

Since I started therapy, I've been digging up the reasons why I behave the way I behaved in this relationship. When I was growing up, I was taught the different values of what makes a man. Integrity, courage, family, honesty etc. But i was also taught I can bend those values to fit my narrative. I dont blame my family for teaching me both my boundaries and how to easily break them, but here I am now. My ex pointed out when we broke up how different we were in values and I was confused since I had thought we had similar ones. Only now do I realize she's better with her boundaries and my inability to stick to my values were more of an issue than even having them. I didnt cherish them as much as she did. 

So I've been working with my therapist to identify boundaries, and re establish my values, but I dont know where to begin. Honesty for example, is an important value but I was taught honesty was less important than hurting others with the truth. So I learned lying as a way to show I care, by protecting them from MY truths. Lying was used to survive. Little did I know it was really a barrier from me experiencing true love, romantic or otherwise. 

Id really want to be a good man. To her or to my next lover. Therapy, Journaling, seem great but I want more. 

Any suggestions?

[DancingFool]

You don't actually outgrow old habits, you systematically replace old habits with new habits. Meaning that it takes very clear cut constructive action for a certain length of time to change your habits. Outgrow implies that it's a passive process, but in reality it's a very active, goal oriented process that requires active daily effort on your part.

So work with your therapist to come up with small, concrete goals that you can reach and then actively pursue that change. I say small, because you are more likely to reach your overall big goals by breaking them up into small pieces you can manage and succeed at changing on a daily basis. Easy to chew small bites, easy to choke on large ones and quit.

 

[sfindependent]

He said "values are nothing until you exercise them", something like that.

 I also have adhd,which I'm now getting medicated for. It's a battle between always reminding myself, remembering, identifying its an impulse, knowing what my boundaries are, and making sure people I love feel loved. 

Someone here said "I hate it when adhd is used as an excuse" and I thought that was unfair to say. Until recently I thought I was a normal good guy who was on top of my ish. This is a new world and im finding that when to stir, and stirring the pot the other way takes a lot of conscious effort. 

Any daily exercises I can do?

[Jibralta]

6 minutes ago, sfindependent said:

I hate it when adhd is used as an excuse

It was probably me. I've lived with ADHD for more than 40 years and find it very annoying when people try to use it as a catch-all for bad behavior. It is effortless for me to have integrity and courage. I take pride in being an honest person. My credit is fantastic. I've never struggled with addiction. I have strong, healthy boundaries. All of these strengths come from embracing personal responsibility. If you're using ADHD as an excuse, you are avoiding personal responsibility--hence your troubles.

 

[Rose Mosse]

I would work closely with your therapist and don't cloud the matter too much by adding too many other ingredients. If your therapist has come up with ideas and techniques that fit your situation or your issues he/she has determined that in these baby steps, those techniques make the most sense especially when you are in this much pain. You may think you can take on more but don't take two steps forward only to fall back four steps. 

Take it one day at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself trying to hope everything changes quickly. 

When I read your post I had the impression that you are trying to hurry the healing so that others around you can benefit from it more positively. Why the rush? That concern for others seems to govern how you take the time to heal. Give yourself more time. 

No shame in taking time.

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

It was probably me. I've lived with ADHD for more than 40 years and find it very annoying when people try to use it as a catch-all for bad behavior. It is effortless for me to have integrity and courage. I take pride in being an honest person. My credit is fantastic. I've never struggled with addiction. I have strong, healthy boundaries. All of these strengths come from embracing personal responsibility. If you're using ADHD as an excuse, you are avoiding personal responsibility--hence your troubles.

 

I mostly agree with this, BUT there are several subtypes of ADHD, and they affect the brain in different ways.  So just because one person doesn't have a hard time with impulsivity, doesn't mean another person with a different subtype of ADHD, with a different effect on their brain, won't have a dramatically different response in having to cope with impulsivity.  

It just isn't that simple medically.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/01/210127171838.htm

From the linked

Quote

Also, even though people with ADHD tend to make riskier choices in the IGT, it's not a universal determinant. Some people without ADHD also make riskier choices than others.

...

Because different brain networks are implicated in people at either ends of the continuum, this method opens the door for developing therapies that focus on specific brain networks, he added.

 

[Jibralta]

(duplicate)

[Jibralta]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

So just because one person doesn't have a hard time with impulsivity, doesn't mean another person with a different subtype of ADHD, with a different effect on their brain, won't have a dramatically different response in having to cope with impulsivity.  

I had a huge problem with impulsivity. I just don't buy that it affects a person's integrity or sense of responsibility.

[maritalbliss86]

36 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

It is effortless for me to have integrity and courage. I take pride in being an honest person. My credit is fantastic. I've never struggled with addiction. I have strong, healthy boundaries. All of these strengths come from embracing personal responsibility. If you're using ADHD as an excuse, you are avoiding personal responsibility--hence your troubles.

I still think that it is just a little more complicated than that. 

You can have integrity and also have a bad credit score, or problems with struggling against addictive behaviors.  

It's just a lot more grey, rather than black and white.

[sfindependent]

2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

I had a huge problem with impulsivity. I just don't buy that it affects a person's integrity or sense of responsibility.

In that case envy you. (But I also feel a bit judged by you)

I never really attributed my life to be so affected by adhd. And believe me, ive my masters, lived alone for how many years, have a regular life. I have never attributed any of my failings to adhd, nor do I want it to be an excuse or a crutch. Even today, I still don't believe its that. But therapy, reading pages of other people's studies and experiences, and applying insight to my situation has helped me open my eyes to what has been a silent barrier to my otherwise ok life. Obviously we have our own experiences and through therapy im also discovering the deficits of upbringing that has influenced how I think and behave. My family has always been forgetful, impulsive, etc that now really seems like a life long upbringing of people with adhd themselves. They're good people. But Ive never associated these things to how I behave at this point in my life.

I just feel There's a lot of rewriting, re learning and readjusting to do. I just don't know where and how to start even with the therapy and activities. Its also overwhelming and I just tend to freeze at the thought of how incredible of an uphill battle this could be.

[sfindependent]

1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

I still think that it is just a little more complicated than that. 

You can have integrity and also have a bad credit score, or problems with struggling against addictive behaviors.  

It's just a lot more grey, rather than black and white.

Thank you. As I mentioned above, I dont associate my life challenges with adhd but now that I know that this has been a part of my struggle, feel both relief and anxiety over the challenges I've to overcome. Im well within my 40s and im just realizing that my unconscious behaviors aren't necessarily because I'm a bad person or a lazy or weak. I wake up everyday and advocate for other people for work. But I never saw why I do what I do. 

I just want to be a better person. Someone who has values that aren't so malleabl

[Jibralta]

41 minutes ago, sfindependent said:

I have never attributed any of my failings to adhd, nor do I want it to be an excuse or a crutch.

That's good. 

What I take issue with is the idea that ADHD somehow affects your ethics. Like in your last thread, where you attributed tindering to ADHD. I think that's ridiculous.

[Lambert]

I think a lot of changing habits has to do with and be a conscious choice. Not just the act you're trying to change but the actions, people and places that make it too difficult to stick to your intentions.

I've also spent time reflecting on what I want to be or how people with a boundary I want would be. 

Some of it is also the practice. Every time you make a good choice, hold yourself or others accountable, uphold a boundary, etc you are building that strength and creating a new future.

 

[Cherylyn]

First of all, I commend you for your humility and clarity.  Your question is deep and if more people asked your question for self improvement, this world would definitely be a better place.

You need to un-teach what you've been taught regarding "bending values to fit your narrative."  When it comes to values, common courtesy, common decency, integrity, morals and respectful behaviors, there is no creative way to alter what is unwavering and absolute.  Those standards must be conscientiously high everyday otherwise it does several things:  Arguments ensue and escalate and / or you can easily alienate others permanently.  In other words, you can never take back what you've said or written.  Once you demonstrate your true colors to others, people's former trust in you dies meaning they won't risk getting hurt again.  The way they do this is to avoid you and if they can they will avoid you permanently.  This is universal human nature.  

No amount of impulse control changes a person because words spewed whether in verbal or written form is a reflection of your mind.  You have to change the way you think in order to speak cleanly, without offense and always with consideration in mind.  Your daily goal is for the best outcomes. 

I have some people in my life who always say what they think.  Honesty is good, however, here's the kicker, it's not always what you say, it's how you say it.  You have to practice tact.  If you don't know what to say, then it's best to keep your mouth shut otherwise you risk backlash and harsh consequences later.  You can't always say what you think because if you risk it, the other person will haul and let you have it.  Then regrettably, you'll ask yourself:  "Was it worth it?" ☹️

I'll take it a step further.  Often times, when you think of something, it's still better to keep your thoughts to yourself in order to prevent conflict, confrontation, making the other person feel bad and hurt.  Watch what you say and be careful including in written form as well.  Always think ahead.  Don't provoke and incite others because it's not worth the fight or pushing them away for good. 

Again, honesty is good but you have to think.  Honesty is good but you need to exercise discernment.  Think about your delivery.  Other times, if you know your honesty will be hurtful and disrespectful, then don't say nor write it.  

Lying is the worst.  It's better to refrain from saying or writing than lying through your teeth.  Lies never last.  Eventually, the other person will discover your lies and permanently distrust you.  They'll never be able to look at you the same way anymore.  if you have a conscience,  you won't be able to look at yourself in the mirror after lying.  Lying also causes problems because you have to add layers of more lying in order to cover up the original lie.  It's better to remain silent than lie. 

You're a good man because you are humble.  I've known countless people who would never admit their faults and weaknesses in a million years.  You want to conscientiously change which I commend you for.  I've known so many people who are forever in denial mode and should you confront them about your wanting an improvement in the relationship, you'll be sent to the guillotine for an immediate beheading.  They'll smash your spirit to bits, gaslight you to death and it's all downhill from there.   It's vicious backlash which is extremely disgusting.  Due to experience, nowadays, I avoid them like the plague.  I want those types of people completely out of my life permanently.  There are harsh consequences in this life.  Behave and I'll knock myself out for you.  Misbehave?  Disrespect me?  Be unkind?  Deceitful?  Betray me?  Say something inappropriate repeatedly?  Be obnoxiously rude?  Dare to test me sorely?  I'm gone faster than you can think. 

You can't undo the past.  All you can do is be a better man from this day forward.  Change the way you think, exercise self control, think before you speak or write, show respect, remain considerate, kind and remember this Golden Rule:  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  Repeat and memorize this famous quote and you will thrive from now on. 

 

[sfindependent]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

That's good. 

What I take issue with is the idea that ADHD somehow affects your ethics. Like in your last thread, where you attributed tindering to ADHD. I think that's ridiculous.

Yea,I guess I misspoke. So its a yes and a no. I think the impulsivity, if I had better reinforcement when I was younger, could have been curbed. But then again, much like you I dont want to blame it on mental illness. Im hard on myself. I blame my lack of fortitude. I overcame things such as higher education. Why can't I handle honesty? I'm an adult. I should know better and yet here I am. I feel I plateau'd with personal growth. What has been keeping me from becoming a better version of myself? 

It may not be the adhd. But it doesn't help it any better, thats for sure. 

So here i am, blaming myself. Maybe its the adhd, maybe its my own character. Either or, I dont want to hurt my friends, family and lovers with my bendable value system. I take it personally when my strength of character fails. But then again, I do fail. Which is why im here, and why im receiving therapy, why im on meds. 

[sfindependent]

33 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

First of all, I commend you for your humility and clarity.  Your question is deep and if more people asked your question for self improvement, this world would definitely be a better place.

You need to un-teach what you've been taught regarding "bending values to fit your narrative."  When it comes to values, common courtesy, common decency, integrity, morals and respectful behaviors, there is no creative way to alter what is unwavering and absolute.  Those standards must be conscientiously high everyday otherwise it does several things:  Arguments ensue and escalate and / or you can easily alienate others permanently.  In other words, you can never take back what you've said or written.  Once you demonstrate your true colors to others, people's former trust in you dies meaning they won't risk getting hurt again.  The way they do this is to avoid you and if they can they will avoid you permanently.  This is universal human nature.  

No amount of impulse control changes a person because words spewed whether in verbal or written form is a reflection of your mind.  You have to change the way you think in order to speak cleanly, without offense and always with consideration in mind.  Your daily goal is for the best outcomes. 

I have some people in my life who always say what they think.  Honesty is good, however, here's the kicker, it's not always what you say, it's how you say it.  You have to practice tact.  If you don't know what to say, then it's best to keep your mouth shut otherwise you risk backlash and harsh consequences later.  You can't always say what you think because if you risk it, the other person will haul and let you have it.  Then regrettably, you'll ask yourself:  "Was it worth it?" ☹️

I'll take it a step further.  Often times, when you think of something, it's still better to keep your thoughts to yourself in order to prevent conflict, confrontation, making the other person feel bad and hurt.  Watch what you say and be careful including in written form as well.  Always think ahead.  Don't provoke and incite others because it's not worth the fight or pushing them away for good. 

Again, honesty is good but you have to think.  Honesty is good but you need to exercise discernment.  Think about your delivery.  Other times, if you know your honesty will be hurtful and disrespectful, then don't say nor write it.  

Lying is the worst.  It's better to refrain from saying or writing than lying through your teeth.  Lies never last.  Eventually, the other person will discover your lies and permanently distrust you.  They'll never be able to look at you the same way anymore.  if you have a conscience,  you won't be able to look at yourself in the mirror after lying.  Lying also causes problems because you have to add layers of more lying in order to cover up the original lie.  It's better to remain silent than lie. 

You're a good man because you are humble.  I've known countless people who would never admit their faults and weaknesses in a million years.  You want to conscientiously change which I commend you for.  I've known so many people who are forever in denial mode and should you confront them about your wanting an improvement in the relationship, you'll be sent to the guillotine for an immediate beheading.  They'll smash your spirit to bits, gaslight you to death and it's all downhill from there.   It's vicious backlash which is extremely disgusting.  Due to experience, nowadays, I avoid them like the plague.  I want those types of people completely out of my life permanently.  There are harsh consequences in this life.  Behave and I'll knock myself out for you.  Misbehave?  Disrespect me?  Be unkind?  Deceitful?  Betray me?  Say something inappropriate repeatedly?  Be obnoxiously rude?  Dare to test me sorely?  I'm gone faster than you can think. 

You can't undo the past.  All you can do is be a better man from this day forward.  Change the way you think, exercise self control, think before you speak or write, show respect, remain considerate, kind and remember this Golden Rule:  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  Repeat and memorize this famous quote and you will thrive from now on. 

 

Thank you for this well thought out post. 

[Cherylyn]

4 hours ago, sfindependent said:

Thank you for this well thought out post. 

Thank you for your kind words. 

Google "emotional intelligence."  Emotional intelligence either makes or breaks all relationships including friendships, marriages and all interactions. 

Relationships succeed when both parties possess emotional intelligence.  Whenever there is a lack of emotional intelligence, relationships flounder and ultimately fail.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, sfindependent said:

 I've been seeing a therapist.

I've been seeing an addiction specialist

. Ive also started seeing a credit specialist 

It seems like you are on the right track getting your life back in order.

Stay clean and sober. Get involved in sports fitness and good health practices.

Follow up with addiction support. 

[Cherylyn]

To me, self-improvement boils down to how to be a peaceful person. 

Keep in mind, people are different, situations and issues are different.  It's your job to navigate yourself astutely.  Practice tact, be gracious and well mannered because you'll respect and like yourself and others will feed off your integrity, empathy and moral energy.  

Never make yourself vulnerable to verbal or written attack.  Play it safe.  Be shrewd.  Be smart.

If you don't know what to say or write, it's better not to say or write something you'll regret later.  Always think before you act, speak or write.  Always think ahead and know reactions and outcomes will either be civil or become a nasty argument.  Choose the former instead of the latter.  Enforce your own boundaries within yourself and others.   You'll thank yourself later.

I always think:  How will I feel tomorrow?  Will I wake up to strife, turmoil, discord and animosity or will I wake up to peace even if it's not optimal, perfect peace?  Always choose peace.  Never create drama.  Boring is good! 

Don't lie.  Whenever you feel like lying, keep quiet, don't speak or write lies otherwise lies snowball into irrevocable messes and damage. 

Honesty is good, however, pick your battles. 

Too much honesty will sorely backfire.  I know.  Been there done that with disastrous results!  (Fights, endless gaslighting, estrangement, distrust, permanently damaged relationships) Keep certain opinions to yourself, don't speak it nor write it.  If you don't admire someone due to their foibles, shortcomings, incurable mental disorders, discourtesy, rude & very inconsiderate characteristic traits, flaws, defects and lack of empathy, simply avoid them.  It's better to maintain a safe distance with people whom you don't like than engage in a war of words with them. That's what boundaries are.  Keep the peace.  No harm no foul.

Always err on the side of caution.  Be conservative with your thoughts, actions or non-actions.  Be wise.  Exercise self control.  Better safe than sorry. 

[catfeeder]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:37 PM, sfindependent said:

Honesty for example, is an important value but I was taught honesty was less important than hurting others with the truth. So I learned lying as a way to show I care, by protecting them from MY truths.

Good example, because 'honesty' is not an all-or-nothing blurt of unfiltered thoughts. It's a balance between kind delivery and mature discretion--in that adults are not obligated to answer every question we are asked. We each define what is private and best left unspoken (discussing sexual history with a date) versus deciding what another has a right to know (status of sexually transmitted disease).

So what, exactly, are the habits you want to change?