Giving up “the goods”

[Pau]

Hello all, this is my first question on this forum. I am a cis woman from a more Conservative European background, and for as long as I can remember, there is always been a bit of a double standard when it comes to women having causal sex versus men. I have grown up with a stereotype that says if you want to keep a man interested, you have to hold off sleeping with him for a long as possible. 

 

This is based on the assumption that men are after one thing from you, and a soon as you give it to them, they’ve already got they wanted from you.

 

So, I met a lovely young English teacher, three years older than me; and I really liked being around him. He was youthful and energetic without being immature, and overall I found him very attractive. He asked me on a date couple days later and I agreed. However things just happened that after hours of talking, we went back to his place…...

So we are making out as you do, and he asked whether I would be interested in him “making love to me” on the first night. 

 

Initially I said no because I was worried it would make him lose interest and make me somewhat less of a desirable woman. Problem was, the longer I spoke with him the more I realised that I really really was sexually attracted to him, and I actually really really want to did want to have sex with him. 

So I did, and it was ***ing awesome! It was physically really good but at the same time he talked to me and was emotionally intimate with me at the same time, and for this reason especially I really enjoyed the experience. 

 

However now I’m wondering that maybe I gave it up too quickly. I’m worried that now that we had awesome sex, he won’t call me because I’ve already given up the “goods.” I feel like this mindset is a result of double standards set in by the patriarchy, but I can’t seem to shake these stressful and guilt filled feelings. Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

love Paula.

[SooSad33]

No, in my opinion, holding off on sex may not 'keep them interested'.. nowadays, at least, I find, if you do it for too long, they may just grow distant and move on.. paying less attention to you, as they seek someone else.

Not sure if you are asking if, once they get what they wanted, they will just disapear?  Not always, especially if they now know they can get sex with you.  Thing is, do THEY want an actual relationship, or just sex?  As we often end up getting emotionally invested in them before then do with us - and if all they want is sex and you're wanting more than that - is where it ends up YOU get hurt ( is a friend with benefits).

Okay, so you gave in on the first night.. If he's been alone a while, no action and is not stringing anyone else along, chances are, he will stick around a while.

YOU are the only one who really knows him.  But, how well do you know him?

Has he been married or had long term relationships? ( Not out of something recently, I hope).

[Capricorn3]

What's done is done.  Not much you can do about it now.  The only way you'll know if all he wanted was sex is if he dumps you soon after.  Maybe he'll hang around longer because he now knows he can get sex from you any time.  It could also go the other way and you guys are a good match and become a couple who date for years.  No-one really knows how this will end.

That said, speaking for myself only, being rather old school, I would never "give up the goods" on a first date.  I prefer to wait and see if the guy actually is interested in ME, as a person, rather than an easy lay.  But, like I said, I am old school.  These days most people really don't think that way and "first date sex" seems to be the norm.  It comes down to what works for you. Your own morals and values etc.

[SaiKiiAdou]

I mean if he doesn't want to continue with you because you had sex on the first date that tells you a lot about him, right? After all he had sex with you too and from what you write, you are not a big fan of these double standards. Then he is just not the right person for you.

I had quiet a few relationships start with sex on the first date. The only reason to have sex with someone you need is because you want to have sex with them. No matter if date no1 or 100. What happens after that you can not control. Also no matter if date no1 or 100.

 

[East4]

Well, sleeping with a man on a first date, as a rule of thumb is not conducive to growing a committed relationship, if this is your intention. On a first date, the man is practically a stranger, and you do not give access to your body to strangers. Especially in conservative societies, women like that are seen as "easy". The debate if this is a fair judgement, is a totally different discussion, fact is, it is what it is, and men do judge women based on how quickly they give themselves to a man. You should have kept the date outside of his apartment. I hope that you used protection as well.

Now, what is done is done. When did you have sex with your English teacher? Did he contact you since then? If yes, is it a regular contact, or just intermittently? If he contacts you, is it to ask more sexual favors, or you have normal conversations on other topics? Is he your nationality and teaching English, or he is British, as English teacher can be understood either way?

I would suggest if he invites you to meet up again (aren't you in lock down? The whole of Europe is in lock down), stay away from his apartment and go out in public places. If you have slept with him once, it does not mean you are obligated to keep doing it. If he stops contacting you, then you will have your answer. 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Pau said:

I am a cis woman 

You can have sex whenever you are ready. Perhaps you need to step out of the black and white thinking that men only want sex, then discard you.

Either you enjoy someone's company or you don't. It's doesn't matter if you have sex on date one or 100. If you are into each other it works out. If you are not, it doesn't.

Don't have sex to keep a man. 

[smackie9]

If the sex is real good, and there was good chemistry, and he's looking for a relationship, he will be back BUT you have to make sure he understands that this wasn't a ONS and would like to see where it will take you and date. Don't just leave it up to the man to make that move. You want equal rights on this you can reach out too.

If he isn't interested, then guess what...getting sex was his only intention...so holding off wouldn't have made any difference....sex is not currency that buys you a relationship.

[reinventmyself]

13 hours ago, Pau said:

Initially I said no because I was worried it would make him lose interest and make me somewhat less of a desirable woman. 

 

 

It's one thing to have these concerns.  It's another to voice them to someone in the moment.  

You describe a perfectly good date with a nice a man and basically infer that he might take advantage of you.   By saying you might be seen less desirable also showcases your insecurities.   

It was said earlier.   Sex isn't a currency.  Next time share with a man your values from a place of confidence and not in the heat of moment and when you are feeling insecure about it.

[lostandhurt]

I am a man and if I was really attracted to you, had a wonderful date and ended up having awesome sex I most assuredly would be calling you again and again. 

 Not all men are out to conquer as many women as they can, most are looking for a relationship.

How about you don't lump him in with the stereotypical male and see what he does BEFORE you condemn him.

How did the date end?  Did he say he wanted to see you again?

Lost

[Batya33]

I didn't withhold intercourse as a test or a game.  I waited because of my values and standards and after I was in my early-ish 20s I no longer even desired casual sex (I never had casual sex).  I also waited for health reasons -STDs and pregnancy risk since I was pretty sure I wouldn't be comfortable aborting a baby or having someone else adopt my baby.  I strongly preferred to date men who hadn't had multiple partners because of being ok with casual sex.  I did "hook up" and do sexual stuff with someone I was dating after a certain amount of time and waited for intercourse.  I wanted us to be in a committed exclusive relationship, in love and with marriage potential.  We were exclusive first not as some sort of "I'll commit to you if you'll have sex". Did that once, I regret it.  

I never regretted my decision, yes some men walked away early on, some on the first date.  Yes I saw many women get jaded/cynical even when they fully consented to casual sex.  I wasn't jaded or cynical more than very short periods of time.  It's one reason I was finally able to become the right person to find the right person.  And yes I had a strong sex drive. I also have a strong dark chocolate drive.  Doesn't mean I indulge my drive in real life - so waiting for sex actually increased desire . 

Also I didn't believe in "friends first" -I believed in developing a romantic dating relationship which included getting to know each other as people.  I was wary of men who compartmentalized it because often it meant they saw sex as something that would change things in a negative way.  The best sex I ever had was with men who loved and were committed to me.  I'm personally glad I made the choices I did.  

Having said all that you made the right choice for you.  You chose to go with your feelings of sexual attraction and chemistry and have sex.  He was there too.  I think that you have to own that - you chose casual sex, and that's totally fine - and if he doesn't call you again it might be because very often in early dating people decide they don't have enough in common, whether or not they have sex.  He knows you are a person who is comfortable with casual sex.  So is he.  I'd own that - I wouldn't try to tell him "I never do this!!"  Because, you did do it.  And if he is not comfortable with a woman who has casual sex then that's his choice whether it's a double standard or not.  But no I wouldn't regret it -you had fun, you took the risk.  Yes I think it is riskier to have sex early on in a relationship for a number of reasons.  But for you the benefits outweighed the risks!

If he didn't make a date with you time and place then there is no next date until and unless he calls you or you ask him out -certainly feel free to ask him out - and see what he says!

Edited to add -I wasn't clear if you voiced those insecurities to him.  If you did then he might be wary of dating someone who would think that way of him or of men and be insecure in that way.  I agree with Reinvent and I'd reconsider saying something like that in that context.  

[Pau]

On 1/27/2021 at 2:41 PM, SooSad33 said:

No, in my opinion, holding off on sex may not 'keep them interested'.. nowadays, at least, I find, if you do it for too long, they may just grow distant and move on.. paying less attention to you, as they seek someone else.

Not sure if you are asking if, once they get what they wanted, they will just disapear?  Not always, especially if they now know they can get sex with you.  Thing is, do THEY want an actual relationship, or just sex?  As we often end up getting emotionally invested in them before then do with us - and if all they want is sex and you're wanting more than that - is where it ends up YOU get hurt ( is a friend with benefits).

Okay, so you gave in on the first night.. If he's been alone a while, no action and is not stringing anyone else along, chances are, he will stick around a while.

YOU are the only one who really knows him.  But, how well do you know him?

Has he been married or had long term relationships? ( Not out of something recently, I hope).

 

[Pau]

Hey there!

I really appreciate your well thought out advice. I think you’re right that if you hold off for too long they might think that you’re not interested and they’ll move on.

I think it is a more common thing that women may want more than just sex in these kinds of circumstances. He certainly hasn’t been married and hasn’t actually been in a relationship for over a year now. He did not say anything about wanting a relationship though, and verbally communicated he wanted more of a go with the flow kind of thing.

At the time I was on the same page, but now I think I’ve accidentally caught feelings. Ugh. 

[Pau]

12 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

I am a man and if I was really attracted to you, had a wonderful date and ended up having awesome sex I most assuredly would be calling you again and again. 

 Not all men are out to conquer as many women as they can, most are looking for a relationship.

How about you don't lump him in with the stereotypical male and see what he does BEFORE you condemn him.

How did the date end?  Did he say he wanted to see you again?

Lost

Hi there Lost,

Very happy to hear an authentic response from a man’s perspective. 
 

I think you’re right, I have to be careful not to stereotype him and lump him in with the guys who want only “one thing”. Perhaps I am being cynical so I can spare my feelings. 
 

if I thought the date went well I’d certainly be wanting to call them back too. Should I make a move and just call him maybe? I don’t want to come across as too eager or clingy. 
 

ive had two dates with him now. The first time he said he wanted to see me again, but mentioned nothing about seeing me again the second time. He kissed me goodbye..I thought that was a good sign. 
 

thanks again,

Pau

[Pau]

12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I didn't withhold intercourse as a test or a game.  I waited because of my values and standards and after I was in my early-ish 20s I no longer even desired casual sex (I never had casual sex).  I also waited for health reasons -STDs and pregnancy risk since I was pretty sure I wouldn't be comfortable aborting a baby or having someone else adopt my baby.  I strongly preferred to date men who hadn't had multiple partners because of being ok with casual sex.  I did "hook up" and do sexual stuff with someone I was dating after a certain amount of time and waited for intercourse.  I wanted us to be in a committed exclusive relationship, in love and with marriage potential.  We were exclusive first not as some sort of "I'll commit to you if you'll have sex". Did that once, I regret it.  

I never regretted my decision, yes some men walked away early on, some on the first date.  Yes I saw many women get jaded/cynical even when they fully consented to casual sex.  I wasn't jaded or cynical more than very short periods of time.  It's one reason I was finally able to become the right person to find the right person.  And yes I had a strong sex drive. I also have a strong dark chocolate drive.  Doesn't mean I indulge my drive in real life - so waiting for sex actually increased desire . 

Also I didn't believe in "friends first" -I believed in developing a romantic dating relationship which included getting to know each other as people.  I was wary of men who compartmentalized it because often it meant they saw sex as something that would change things in a negative way.  The best sex I ever had was with men who loved and were committed to me.  I'm personally glad I made the choices I did.  

Having said all that you made the right choice for you.  You chose to go with your feelings of sexual attraction and chemistry and have sex.  He was there too.  I think that you have to own that - you chose casual sex, and that's totally fine - and if he doesn't call you again it might be because very often in early dating people decide they don't have enough in common, whether or not they have sex.  He knows you are a person who is comfortable with casual sex.  So is he.  I'd own that - I wouldn't try to tell him "I never do this!!"  Because, you did do it.  And if he is not comfortable with a woman who has casual sex then that's his choice whether it's a double standard or not.  But no I wouldn't regret it -you had fun, you took the risk.  Yes I think it is riskier to have sex early on in a relationship for a number of reasons.  But for you the benefits outweighed the risks!

If he didn't make a date with you time and place then there is no next date until and unless he calls you or you ask him out -certainly feel free to ask him out - and see what he says!

Edited to add -I wasn't clear if you voiced those insecurities to him.  If you did then he might be wary of dating someone who would think that way of him or of men and be insecure in that way.  I agree with Reinvent and I'd reconsider saying something like that in that context.  

Yes, I certainly do need to own it. I did consent and was all on board with the decision to have casual sex. If there was no agreement to see each other later, then I can’t be expecting that of him. I think I didn’t think I’d end up developing an emotional attachment like I did. 
 

I should probably mention that we had two dates, and it was the second time that we saw each other that I agreed to have sex. 

 I find it interesting when you said he might be wary of dating someone who would think “that way” of him. Do you mean he would be wary dating someone who suspected him of just being interested in sex and nothing else? Thanks for your in depth thoughts on this. 

[Capricorn3]

42 minutes ago, Pau said:

ive had two dates with him now. The first time he said he wanted to see me again, but mentioned nothing about seeing me again the second time.

You mention that it was on the second date that you had sex and he didn't ask to see you again after that date? 😧  How long ago did this happen?  Was it just recently? A few days ago?

[Pau]

13 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

It's one thing to have these concerns.  It's another to voice them to someone in the moment.  

You describe a perfectly good date with a nice a man and basically infer that he might take advantage of you.   By saying you might be seen less desirable also showcases your insecurities.   

It was said earlier.   Sex isn't a currency.  Next time share with a man your values from a place of confidence and not in the heat of moment and when you are feeling insecure about it.

Ooft, this one was hard to read but I think you pointed something out that I didn’t realise. Me thinking that having sex early on might deter him off actually does showcase my insecurities. It might be healthier for me to remember that being interested in sex early on shouldn’t automatically make me less desirable or less worthy of being pursued. 
 

thanks for the tough love,

pau

[Pau]

9 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

You mention that it was on the second date that you had sex and he didn't ask to see you again after that date? 😧  How long ago did this happen?  Was it just recently? A few days ago?

Oh gosh, I think I’ve accidentally been unclear. Okay so we met up about two Saturdays ago..went on the first date the following Tuesday, and we had sex.  Then last Saturday was when we had the second meet up. We slept together then too. But I haven’t heard from him since. Hope that makes sense. So it’s been almost a week. Last time he called me about a day later

[Capricorn3]

Thanks for the clarification.  I hope he calls you back.  If not ..........well, then you have your answer.  🙁

[Pau]

14 hours ago, smackie9 said:

If the sex is real good, and there was good chemistry, and he's looking for a relationship, he will be back BUT you have to make sure he understands that this wasn't a ONS and would like to see where it will take you and date. Don't just leave it up to the man to make that move. You want equal rights on this you can reach out too.

If he isn't interested, then guess what...getting sex was his only intention...so holding off wouldn't have made any difference....sex is not currency that buys you a relationship.

Hey there Smackie,

I think your final paragraph has been really really helpful. 

“If he isn't interested, then guess what...getting sex was his only intention...so holding off wouldn't have made any difference....sex is not currency that buys you a relationship.”

I wasn’t trying to use sex as a currency, but I think me being put out that he doesn’t want to pursue anything with me might be a bit leaning towards that mindset. 
 

And yes, if I want things to be equal then perhaps I need to stick my neck out and call HIM if I want to see if anything may grow from it. 

 

 

[Pau]

On 1/27/2021 at 2:17 PM, Pau said:

Hello all, this is my first question on this forum. I am a cis woman from a more Conservative European background, and for as long as I can remember, there is always been a bit of a double standard when it comes to women having causal sex versus men. I have grown up with a stereotype that says if you want to keep a man interested, you have to hold off sleeping with him for a long as possible. 

 

This is based on the assumption that men are after one thing from you, and a soon as you give it to them, they’ve already got they wanted from you.

 

So, I met a lovely young English teacher, three years older than me; and I really liked being around him. He was youthful and energetic without being immature, and overall I found him very attractive. He asked me on a date couple days later and I agreed. However things just happened that after hours of talking, we went back to his place…...

So we are making out as you do, and he asked whether I would be interested in him “making love to me” on the first night. 

 

Initially I said no because I was worried it would make him lose interest and make me somewhat less of a desirable woman. Problem was, the longer I spoke with him the more I realised that I really really was sexually attracted to him, and I actually really really want to did want to have sex with him. 

So I did, and it was ***ing awesome! It was physically really good but at the same time he talked to me and was emotionally intimate with me at the same time, and for this reason especially I really enjoyed the experience. 

 

However now I’m wondering that maybe I gave it up too quickly. I’m worried that now that we had awesome sex, he won’t call me because I’ve already given up the “goods.” I feel like this mindset is a result of double standards set in by the patriarchy, but I can’t seem to shake these stressful and guilt filled feelings. Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

love Paula.

I also should update. We’ve been on two dates, and yes, we slept together both those times. It’s been a week since I’ve heard from him.

[Pau]

On 1/27/2021 at 2:44 PM, Capricorn3 said:

What's done is done.  Not much you can do about it now.  The only way you'll know if all he wanted was sex is if he dumps you soon after.  Maybe he'll hang around longer because he now knows he can get sex from you any time.  It could also go the other way and you guys are a good match and become a couple who date for years.  No-one really knows how this will end.

That said, speaking for myself only, being rather old school, I would never "give up the goods" on a first date.  I prefer to wait and see if the guy actually is interested in ME, as a person, rather than an easy lay.  But, like I said, I am old school.  These days most people really don't think that way and "first date sex" seems to be the norm.  It comes down to what works for you. Your own morals and values etc.

Solid advice from a Capricorn, I appreciate it.

[Pau]

20 hours ago, East4 said:

Well, sleeping with a man on a first date, as a rule of thumb is not conducive to growing a committed relationship, if this is your intention. On a first date, the man is practically a stranger, and you do not give access to your body to strangers. Especially in conservative societies, women like that are seen as "easy". The debate if this is a fair judgement, is a totally different discussion, fact is, it is what it is, and men do judge women based on how quickly they give themselves to a man. You should have kept the date outside of his apartment. I hope that you used protection as well.

Now, what is done is done. When did you have sex with your English teacher? Did he contact you since then? If yes, is it a regular contact, or just intermittently? If he contacts you, is it to ask more sexual favors, or you have normal conversations on other topics? Is he your nationality and teaching English, or he is British, as English teacher can be understood either way?

I would suggest if he invites you to meet up again (aren't you in lock down? The whole of Europe is in lock down), stay away from his apartment and go out in public places. If you have slept with him once, it does not mean you are obligated to keep doing it. If he stops contacting you, then you will have your answer. 

I’d like to clarify that he is not MY English teacher. We are both of similar age studying education. I would never sleep with a teacher of mine. I am in a country that is not under lockdown. Our native language is English, so we call English the subject in which we study our language and novels etc;

 

yes we used protection. I always do, and am currently on the pill. I hope this is clearer now. 

[Pau]

22 hours ago, SaiKiiAdou said:

I mean if he doesn't want to continue with you because you had sex on the first date that tells you a lot about him, right? After all he had sex with you too and from what you write, you are not a big fan of these double standards. Then he is just not the right person for you.

I had quiet a few relationships start with sex on the first date. The only reason to have sex with someone you need is because you want to have sex with them. No matter if date no1 or 100. What happens after that you can not control. Also no matter if date no1 or 100.

 

Hi!

I feel a bit better reading your comment. A bit more background, I’ve known him as an acquaintance for some years, but nothing ever grew romantically until recently. I think I wouldn’t like to date someone who would judge someone or write off someone who is happy to have sex on the first date. 

[Capricorn3]

8 minutes ago, Pau said:

And yes, if I want things to be equal then perhaps I need to stick my neck out and call HIM if I want to see if anything may grow from it. 

At this point it's the last thing I would do.  Wait and see how long it takes him to contact you again.  It's already a week with no word.  Maybe I'm really cynical, but if it takes this long with not a word, and then suddenly he returns out of the blue, that would tell me he'll only contact you when he's bored or wants sex.  I would not contact him first, but that's just me.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Pau said:

. Our native language is English, so we call English the subject in which we study our language and novels etc.

Just curious what the significance of "cis woman" is to you?

Your post opens with this designation, so wondering how that this relates to your worries about him.

Did he mention during your dates that he prefers or usually dates trans women?

Is this why you are concerned you haven't heard back yet? 

Sometimes dating can be one or two dates, (with or without sex) and that's it.

If you want to see him again, just call and ask him to go out.