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Exclusivity and casual relationships


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11 minutes ago, Roshikun said:

There's two connotations to the term wiseman, either you're actually wise, or it's sarcastic to say you're a ***. And I think I know which one you are sadly.

You shouldn't be rude to other forum posters though. They have rules on the forum about respect and if you insult people you might get infractions or get banned. You need to be respectful even if you're not getting the kinds of responses you wanted. Everyone has different opinions about things and unfortunately you won't always hear what you want to hear online.

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42 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

These are lovely traits, but the bigger problems would almost certainly have caught up with you (as a couple) later on. It's not just insecurity. She appears to have some deep issues that would render a healthy and sustainable long-term relationship...very challenging. 

She seems to be in love with the idea of love, but actually has quite an immature and naïve understanding of what love is. Based on what you said about claiming to be in love with you after a week, and agreeing to marry a virtual stranger after a week, she's looking to latch on to anyone who seems to offer some semblance of security. That's not to say you don't possess your own great qualities, but there is zero chance she knew that after a week of dating. It's a major red flag when someone jumps into relationships like she does (or attempted to do) They're often dealing with unresolved trauma or emotional instability and attempting to use relationships to fix them. Recipe for disaster. 

In the future, be very wary of anyone who tosses around "love" when they barely know you. You were actually wise not to commit to her, as it probably wouldn't have been a very successful relationship. 

I agree it never sat with me well how fast she wanted to commit to me. She'd get jealous if I wanted to hang out with another girl and her presence being there too (like invite ppl for a board game night where a woman in the group is someone I had a fling with). She'd also tell me to delete pics I took of her cuz she thinks she looks ugly in photos but she's actually a rly good looking young woman with low self-esteem. The signs of low self-esteem were there, not in the way she dressed tho, she wasn't afraid of showing skin. I also did come to that thought, she was a hard-core diehard hopeless romantic. The idea of romance was enough to swoon her.

39 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It takes far longer than 3-6 months for many people -not all -to know if the person they are with is the one they want forever with -I would say you might know in 3 months but I am a fan of the couple spending a year together before getting engaged/married.

On the other hand deciding to be exclusive -not just sexually monogamous -exclusively dating - that can happen much sooner.  You're not deciding to marry, you're not deciding this person is the one.  You're deciding there is serious potential for the long term and you want to be exclusive to explore that within an environment where neither is distracted by shopping around for others to date/dating others.  There need not be intercourse involved at all while exclusively dating - for example if the decision is made after 4-5 dates, less than a month sometimes! Most of the time my boyfriend and I were exclusive way before we had sex even though we fooled around/were sexual to an extent after going out 3 or 4 times.  

Having sex with multiple people for 3-6 months isn't really exploring whether you want to commit to someone - for that period of time the focus really is on simply having fun which to you means sex with multiple partners.  Certainly if you want to date different people for a month or two before you become exclusive with one -to me anyway that makes perfect sense.  I didn't put all my eggs in one basket right away especially in my 30s when I wanted marriage and did

n't want to close off all options for a near stranger.  But if I dated someone for 6-8 weeks - usually 10 dates? - I knew if there was serious potential for the long term especially because my mindset going in was whether this person might make a good long term partner.  I remember one instance where at 3 months of non exclusive dating (no intercourse) I saw he changed his dating profile.  I responded to it and he called me.  He said "I'm almost there, but not quite - can you hang in with me a little longer?"  I said I could.  I gave myself one more month.  He then started pulling away slightly.  And at 4 months he took me to watch him play a sport where his disorder -an anger disorder -was on full display. Not at all towards me, ever.  He told me he used to be much worse and wasn't interested in therapy anymore.  So then I knew he actually wanted me to exit.  He said he didn't but I knew he showed me that side of him so he wouldn't have to end things with me.  Of course I wasn't going to take the chance that his diagnosed disorder - despite being better - might flare up and be used against me (and then I remembered all the empty beer cans I'd seen at his apartment).  

Another guy agreed to be exclusive with me if I'd have sex with him -so I did earlier than I usually did (around 7 weeks) - he said he still wanted freedom to "meet women for coffee".  I said no.  He agreed.  My mistake - see- he never really was in love with me and I'd never had sex outside of a committed relationship where we were in love and saw serious potential for marriage - he dumped me 3 months later because he was never that into me.  He didn't need "more time" -he just didn't want to wait for sex. 

Maybe these examples help you.  I dated on and off for 24 years -been with my husband 15 years, married for 12.

Yes it was very helpful to hear different scenarios and different motivations. I wanted both at the same time, finishing my sexual escapades on my own term while securing the relationship. It was greedy of me to want my cake and eat it too. 

And yeah true I could've been exclusive dating her without thinking she's the one. I guess to me, once i decide to commit even just as a couple, my goal is long term forever type. As much as we weren't doing vows or anything, i did see it as a spiritual marriage of some sort as I take the committed aspect seriously, guess I had still a lot to learn about GETTING into commitment properly without getting entangled. I thought since i wouldn't even entertain the idea of a bachelor party or any sort of foolishness westerners do traditionally before marriage, that my finishing off my sexual journey was my bachelor party to myself. I thought if I just get it out of my system now I wont have any hangup about not maximizing my single life. Just off freshly meeting her, I wasn't into her enough to have given up sexual freedom yet, especially since I haven't enjoyed myself sexually that much this summer than any other time in my life. 

You're much more helpful elaborating your perspective than Jibralta and wiseman there just puking their words out without any deep analysis, just assumptions. Thank you for taking your time to write 

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21 hours ago, Roshikun said:

Did I betray her? Was my answer to her request to cut the other women off dodgy? Do you think I was in the wrong or was she, or were we both inexperienced with relationships and made errors on both parts? Was it going to fail to begin with from outside perspective? Any and all insight and advice is appreciated, our relationship changed me forever. 

Sorry about all this.

Rather than parse through these questions, I'll offer my big picture, most generous read on all this.

She needed these months with you to become firmer with men about what she wants, what she's worth, where she will and will not bend, and to start embracing a more mature, expansive view of romance and romantic connection so, in the future, she doesn't compromise those precious values in the name of insta-flutters. She'll find herself on the threshold of some version of this again in life—and again, and again—and maybe what was two months with you will be two hours in the future. Less drama all around, more room for depth. When she's your age, she'll look back at this with a sigh: a thing she had to do to learn what she doesn't want to do again.  

For you, meanwhile? Perhaps these months can represent a turning point in how you go about the business of intimacy. It's hard to go deep, if you're still trying to skim the surface, and my impression here is that you were kind of trying to have it every which way, using a lot of high brow semantics to make that happen, and choosing a certain kind of woman (youth/insecurity seems to be a theme) that would go along with this. Might "work" with someone a few sneezes out of high school who just came to legal drinking age, but not so much with an actual peer and equal, who has developed x-ray vision for this sort of thing, has become more intimate with her own tolerance levels.    

That's not judgement, mind you, but just observation. I'd say your remorse about all this might be less connected to this woman, and the loss of her, than it is something of a reckoning, the loss of something else that was very good for the ego, if not quite the heart. After 60 days, she essentially took your script and, after auditioning for a bit, flipped it—or just realized it was a pretty lousy part to play in a pretty weird story, and tore it up before your eyes. You didn't like this, because you liked the script—understandably. You were steering the ship, at least until you weren't. Big lesson there: no matter what we tell ourselves, the other person in the relationship always has as much power as you do. The sooner we can respect that, the richer our connections get. 

Great moment, this one, for some self-reflection. You're clearly quite smart, searching for something, but I do see you resisting some more raw accountability here. All these words you're spending analyzing her, describing her? You're just describing someone who is very young, who has three years of adulthood under her belt compared to your 14. So ask yourself if this was all maybe something of a shortcut to feel certain things—like a successful swaggering dude, say—and then ask yourself if taking the shortcut is actually getting you where you want to go. It's easy to feel like LeBron James if you're playing basketball with people who are just learning to play, if you dig. 

I do agree that it takes real time to know someone, to know if you two can work. With a more mature woman, and with some more maturity in yourself of the sort I see you looking to excavate, you'll find it doesn't need to come with all these rules. You meet, you get along. You start sleeping together and agree to explore this new thing exclusively. You do that for a few months and then, if it's all gelling, feeling both safe and sparkly, you become a couple. That there isn't even some ending, but just another beginning, paving the way to keep getting to know each other and see how deep into the ocean you can swim, together, if that's the sort of journey you're into. 

Hope that helps. 

 

Edited by bluecastle
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16 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

Sorry about all this.

Rather than parse through these questions, I'll offer my big picture, most generous read on all this.

She needed these months with you to become firmer with men about what she wants, what she's worth, where she will and will not bend, and to start embracing a more mature, expansive view of romance and romantic connection so, in the future, she doesn't compromise those precious values in the name of insta-flutters. She'll find herself on the threshold of some version of this again in life—and again, and again—and maybe what was two months with you will be two hours in the future. Less drama all around, more room for depth. When she's your age, she'll look back at this with a sigh: a thing she had to do to learn what she doesn't want to do again.  

For you, meanwhile? Perhaps these months can represent a turning point in how you go about the business of intimacy. It's hard to go deep, if you're still trying to skim the surface, and my impression here is that you were kind of trying to have it every which way, using a lot of high brow semantics to make that happen, and choosing a certain kind of woman (youth/insecurity seems to be a theme) that would go along with this. Might "work" with someone a few sneezes out of high school who just came to legal drinking age, but not so much with an actual peer and equal, who has developed x-ray vision for this sort of thing, has become more intimate with her own tolerance levels.    

That's not judgement, mind you, but just observation. I'd say your remorse about all this might be less connected to this woman, and the loss of her, than it is something of a reckoning, the loss of something else that was very good for the ego, if not quite the heart. After 60 days, she essentially took your script and, after auditioning for a bit, flipped it—or just realized it was a pretty lousy part to play in a pretty weird story, and tore it up before your eyes. You didn't like this, because you liked the script—understandably. You were steering the ship, at least until you weren't. Big lesson there: no matter what we tell ourselves, the other person in the relationship always has as much power as you do. The sooner we can respect that, the richer our connections get. 

Great moment, this one, for some self-reflection. You're clearly quite smart, searching for something, but I do see you resisting some more raw accountability here. All these words you're spending analyzing her, describing her? You're just describing someone who is very young, who has three years of adulthood under her belt compared to your 14. So ask yourself if this was all maybe something of a shortcut to feel certain things—like a successful swaggering dude, say—and then ask yourself if taking the shortcut is actually getting you where you want to go. It's easy to feel like LeBron James if you're playing basketball with people who are just learning to play, if you dig. 

I do agree that it takes real time to know someone, to know if you two can work. With a more mature woman, and with some more maturity in yourself of the sort I see you looking to excavate, you'll find it doesn't need to come with all these rules. You meet, you get along. You start sleeping together and agree to explore this new thing exclusively. You do that for a few months and then, if it's all gelling, feeling both safe and sparkly, you become a couple. That there isn't even some ending, but just another beginning, paving the way to keep getting to know each other and see how deep into the ocean you can swim, together, if that's the sort of journey you're into. 

Hope that helps. 

 

That was incredibly insightful. Therapy level id say. I didn't quite think of it that way, as me stroking my own ego to do it all my way. It certainly wouldn't breed positive cooperation if I kept that attitude up of doing things my way all the time. As Picard would say "you can do it all right and still lose, that is not weakness, that is life." At least at the time, I perceived it as righteous to follow my own path as I've always habitually done.

I did also mention in one of these replies that it was always a fantasy since I was in high-school to have this type of sexual abundance, as I was the lady's man who never got laid in hs and early college due to my own hangup. I guess you gotta be careful what you wish for is the proper lesson here. As an audience, it looks cool to be in that position, but as the actor, its unnecessary stress. Definitely done with that chapter.

I'm not a therapist but a pseudo one of sort, my job consists of doing a service that involves talking to a client for hours on end so I peer alot into ppl's relationships and learn that probably 60% of relationships are tumultuous or short-term lessons over long term connections. The way you described how ideally one enters into a relationship is good to know. From what I've gathered from the myriad of stories I hear from clients, relationships infrequently form so smoothly. I agree the rules aren't necessary to stick to after having tried it but to be guided by it, in the sense that you withhold yourself from impulsively tying the knot too soon by giving it a few months. But what I gather most from all these replies is my timing on exclusivity is uncalibrated to the average woman's patience. Good to know where I need to practice compromise more.

Yes very good time for self reflection. Its the season for it.

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