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I just keep saying what I was saying.  

Holly,   If I may interrupt you for a moment 😀     You mentioned that it wasn't always this way and had gotten worse in the last months.  Perhaps that is a good starting point for your discu

Thank you everyone for you amazing support.  I really appreciate it!

18 hours ago, Hollyj said:

What happened in the situations with the "wicked" folks?

They've backed down and interrupt far less nowadays.  There are times when they don't interrupt at all.  They know that every single time they misbehave (interrupt), I'll talk over them as they talk over me simultaneously AND I decrease ALL contact.  Electronic communications (text, message, email, phone chat, voice mail) are brief, superficial (never personal), polite and infrequent.  In person socializing had been reduced to nil thanks to the pandemic and I keep a safe distance because that's what enforcing boundaries are.  My message to them is this:  "Behave and they deserve my time, energy, attention and resources.  Misbehave?  Don't bother me because I am very busy with my own life." 

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1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Are you going to discuss this at the birthday dinner?  Or the day before?

The meal is tomorrow.  I am hoping not to breach the subject.  I do not have time to do it tonight.  At this point, if she oversteps, something will be said.

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18 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

They've backed down and interrupt far less nowadays.  There are times when they don't interrupt at all.  They know that every single time they misbehave (interrupt), I'll talk over them as they talk over me simultaneously AND I decrease ALL contact.  Electronic communications (text, message, email, phone chat, voice mail) are brief, superficial (never personal), polite and infrequent.  In person socializing had been reduced to nil thanks to the pandemic and I keep a safe distance because that's what enforcing boundaries are.  My message to them is this:  "Behave and they deserve my time, energy, attention and resources.  Misbehave?  Don't bother me because I am very busy with my own life." 

Can I ask why you continue if it’s so much work?  Are they part of a friend circle? 

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1 minute ago, Hollyj said:

Can I ask why you continue if it’s so much work?  Are they part of a friend circle? 

I never drag out the relationship.  I practice good diplomacy.  I've noticed that due to my behavior to control the relationship, they back off so there isn't any confrontation to deal with which is wonderful.  A few are relatives and one of them is a friend.  None of us fight.  Either I give them a taste of their own medicine whenever they interrupt me or I deliberately change my trajectory regarding how I navigate the relationship. 

If they get personal and I don't feel like it, I'm either quiet or change the subject.  It works and they get the message.

Often times, I'll politely decline socializing and keep all correspondence, dialogue (speaking / electronic), brief, well mannered and superficial.  I don't get personal. 

In person (especially pre-pandemic), I keep things light 'n polite, brief and BORING. 

It's not a lot of work.  They don't bother me and I don't bother them.  It works great. 

You can't control other people or what they do, their obnoxious habits or what have you.  All you can do is control yourself and tell yourself how you will dictate the relationship and none is the wiser.  You are in the driver's seat regarding enforcing healthy boundaries. 

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9 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

The meal is tomorrow.  I am hoping not to breach the subject.  I do not have time to do it tonight.  At this point, if she oversteps, something will be said.

Remain, calm and unemotional.  This is her chance to behave respectfully, with impeccable manners and treat you with consistent, habitual respect. 

If you notice that she reverts back to her chronic, old disrespectful habits again, it is time to cut her loose.  Tell her that it's time to go your separate ways and wish her well.  There is a way to part ways peacefully.  You don't need to explain further because you already did. 

If she's relentless, then ghost, block and delete. 

Or, naturally drift apart and fade away into oblivion.  I've gone that route with nary an explanation.  The friendship had run its course and we both carried on with our own lives.  It was peaceful. 

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I think impeccable manners are the least of it -it's why she's interrupting and how not that she's not being mannerly.  I don't expect my good friends to have impeccable manners around me - I want us to be able to hang, to chill, and if that means we wouldn't behave that way at the Queen's tea party, that's cool.  I see the reasons for the interruptions as the real issue -the examples she's given -so if she is dismissive in that way -whether she interrupts or not -if she speak to HollyJ in a condescending way -that is not just a breach of manners but just simply not being a good friend.

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2 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

Remain, calm and unemotional.  This is her chance to behave respectfully, with impeccable manners and treat you with consistent, habitual respect. 

If you notice that she reverts back to her chronic, old disrespectful habits again, it is time to cut her loose.  Tell her that it's time to go your separate ways and wish her well.  There is a way to part ways peacefully.  You don't need to explain further because you already did. 

If she's relentless, then ghost, block and delete. 

Or, naturally drift apart and fade away into oblivion.  I've gone that route with nary an explanation.  The friendship had run its course and we both carried on with our own lives.  It was peaceful. 

I reread.  I should have written broach.   Ugh.

I am at the point where the emotion is gone, which probably isn't great.   I will give her the courtesy of expressing how I feel, if she oversteps, I will move on.   I don't want this woman to feel like she is walking on eggshells, but I will also do not want to be disrespected.   No one wants to feel mad when they are hanging out with someone.  That's awful.

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What you really need to do is ask yourself these questions: 

Is this friendship important to you?  Is this friendship worth saving?  Do you value this friendship as "precious" and can you afford to lose her or become estranged?  What status or rank does this friendship have in your life?  Are you willing to accept and tolerate her foibles, shortcomings, rude and disrespectful behaviors toward you for the sake of retaining this friendship?  Is it possible to enforce healthy boundaries for yourself so you can decrease all contact with her as much as possible? 

I have a few people both friends and family who are quite sloppy when it comes to practicing common decency, common courtesy and habitual good manners.  I'm not referring to once in a while slip ups either.  It runs the gamut such as foul language, endless interruptions, vulgar comments, bad gossip, backstabbers, never thanking me for any good deeds, past lies, deceit, betrayals, inappropriate conversations and some other despicable forms of psychosis galore.  There are narcissists and fortunately, I annihilated a very dangerous sociopath.  I could write a book on it.  These incurable flaws, defects and serious mental disorders had been ongoing for decades.  However, I can't afford to lose some of them because I know who loves and cares for my immediate family like no other.  They're the types who would drop everything for me in the event of an emergency, drive me to the airport at 2AM, give me (my husband & sons) generous amounts of money at random throughout the year (not just holidays & birthdays) and there for me in a heartbeat should a crisis arise.  Money talks.  They've demonstrated their undying loyalty in the past and their records speak for itself.  Nothing can beat that.  

Do I trust them unequivocally?  NO.  Do I still need to retain them in my back pocket?  YES. 

Some people are package deals.  In order to reap the benefits of anything admirable about them, you have to remain patient with the dark side of their personalities and characters. 

You have to pick your battles. 

I have people in my life who have bad, disrespectful habits.  No amount of finger wagging lectures, confrontations, calm discussions or empathetic lessons will change them nor will I ever try.  A leopard cannot change its spots.  You either accept people as they are or do something about it.  Cut them loose if you can afford to and it's no loss to you in the big picture.  Hang onto them and tolerate their unsavory behaviors if you still wish for them to remain in your life even if only in snippets.

With rude people in my life, I simply decrease contact.  If they text, I keep it short 'n sweet, very brief, superficial, light 'n polite.  If I return phone calls, I keep it brief and then say, "I have to go now!  Have a nice day!"  I don't always accept invitations or social gatherings.  I decline politely.  This pandemic is to my advantage and it's so easy to gratefully decline.  I don't comment on social media.  I don't get involved in other people's lives.  I stay out of it.  If there are any emails, messages, voice mails and the like, again, I keep it brief, nice yet extremely BORING.  I never create discord, controversy nor arguments.  I'm a very peaceful person.  I remain civil.  There is a way to handle rude people.  You simply fend them off and keep them at bay.  I don't engage and if I must, I keep it minimal.  You have complete control regarding how you wish to navigate your friendship.  You can still be gracious yet tough, firm and absolute.  I practice good diplomacy on my terms!   

If your friendship is truly unacceptable and intolerable and you can afford to exit yourself from her life, then this is the time to determine how you will end the friendship.   Some people will correct themselves and change if there's an ultimatum whereas some people will temporarily behave only to disappoint you and revert to their rudeness again.  You can either explain to her why you will part ways with her or drift apart and fade away into oblivion.  The choice is yours. 

Are you patient and tolerant or is your friend a complete and final reject? 

 

 

Edited by Cherylyn
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1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I think impeccable manners are the least of it -it's why she's interrupting and how not that she's not being mannerly.  I don't expect my good friends to have impeccable manners around me - I want us to be able to hang, to chill, and if that means we wouldn't behave that way at the Queen's tea party, that's cool.  I see the reasons for the interruptions as the real issue -the examples she's given -so if she is dismissive in that way -whether she interrupts or not -if she speak to HollyJ in a condescending way -that is not just a breach of manners but just simply not being a good friend.

I was so upset the last two times when she pulled the interrupting, I know all,  negative assumption stunt.   I am not one to dump my issues with people, so when I do, I want to be heard and supported.   

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With rude people, I forgot to add, I don't trust anymore, get personal nor confide.   I'm still very polite and kind yet I don't go overboard either.  (Boundaries!)  I know where to draw the line.  With rude people, I dictate how this relationship goes, not them.  It works great, no harm, no foul.

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Some people habitually interrupt whereas others cannot and will not.  It's not part of their DNA.  If your friend is worth keeping and she interrupts you regardless, then you'll have to live with it.  If you can afford to cease friendship with her, then have her exit your life. 

The in between would be doing what I do with certain people in my life; enforce healthy boundaries for yourself and it's fair for everybody if you wish to go that route. 

You have options and choices. 

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2 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

What you really need to do is ask yourself these questions: 

Is this friendship important to you?  Is this friendship worth saving?  Do you value this friendship as "precious" and can you afford to lose her or become estranged?  What status or rank does this friendship have in your life?  Are you willing to accept and tolerate her foibles, shortcomings, rude and disrespectful behaviors toward you for the sake of retaining this friendship?  Is it possible to enforce healthy boundaries for yourself so you can decrease all contact with her as much as possible? 

I have a few people both friends and family who are quite sloppy when it comes to practicing common decency, common courtesy and habitual good manners.  I'm not referring to once in a while slip ups either.  It runs the gamut such as foul language, endless interruptions, vulgar comments, bad gossip, backstabbers, never thanking me for any good deeds, past lies, deceit, betrayals, inappropriate conversations and some other despicable forms of psychosis galore.  There are narcissists and fortunately, I annihilated a very dangerous sociopath.  I could write a book on it.  These incurable flaws, defects and serious mental disorders had been ongoing for decades.  However, I can't afford to lose some of them because I know who loves and cares for my immediate family like no other.  They're the types who would drop everything for me in the event of an emergency, drive me to the airport at 2AM, give me (my husband & sons) generous amounts of money at random throughout the year (not just holidays & birthdays) and there for me in a heartbeat should a crisis arise.  Money talks.  They've demonstrated their undying loyalty in the past and their records speak for itself.  Nothing can beat that.  

Do I trust them unequivocally?  NO.  Do I still need to retain them in my back pocket?  YES. 

You have to pick your battles. 

I have people in my life who have bad, disrespectful habits.  No amount of finger wagging lectures, confrontations, calm discussions or empathetic lessons will change them nor will I ever try.  A leopard cannot change its spots.  You either accept people as they are or do something about it.  Cut them loose if you can afford to and it's no loss to you in the big picture.  Hang onto them and tolerate their unsavory behaviors if you still wish for them to remain in your life even if only in snippets.

With rude people in my life, I simply decrease contact.  If they text, I keep it short 'n sweet, very brief, superficial, light 'n polite.  If I return phone calls, I keep it brief and then say, "I have to go now!  Have a nice day!"  I don't always accept invitations or social gatherings.  I decline politely.  This pandemic is to my advantage and it's so easy to gratefully decline.  I don't comment on social media.  I don't get involved in other people's lives.  I stay out of it.  If there are any emails, messages, voice mails and the like, again, I keep it brief, nice yet extremely BORING.  I never create discord, controversy nor arguments.  I'm a very peaceful person.  I remain civil.  There is a way to handle rude people.  You simply fend them off and keep them at bay.  I don't engage and if I must, I keep it minimal.  You have complete control regarding how you wish to navigate your friendship.  You can still be gracious yet tough, firm and absolute.  I practice good diplomacy on my terms!   

If your friendship is truly unacceptable and intolerable and you can afford to exit yourself from her life, then this is the time to determine how you will end the friendship.   Some people will correct themselves and change if there's an ultimatum whereas some people will temporarily behave only to disappoint you and revert to their rudeness again.  You can either explain to her why you will part ways with her or drift apart and fade away into oblivion.  The choice is yours. 

Are you patient and tolerant or is your friend a complete and final reject? 

 

 

I will not continue to tolerate this behavior.   I do not need passive aggressive, controlling, disrespectful people in my life.  It is not worth it to me.  When the time is right, I will talk to her and discuss my thoughts.   We will see where the conversation goes.   She must also share any issues she has with me, or we will never get to a good place.   This stuff is happening for a reason.   

The only time that I have had to continue with someone, is due to them being a part of a friend group.   In that case I made my position clear through indifference.   It worked.   

Edited by Hollyj
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28 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Some people habitually interrupt whereas others cannot and will not.  It's not part of their DNA.  If your friend is worth keeping and she interrupts you regardless, then you'll have to live with it.  If you can afford to cease friendship with her, then have her exit your life. 

The in between would be doing what I do with certain people in my life; enforce healthy boundaries for yourself and it's fair for everybody if you wish to go that route. 

You have options and choices. 

I already have boundaries in place, this is why I have spoken up and am now considering ending the friendship.  I have a wide circle of friends and if I need to cut her out, I will.   

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43 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Just curious. When did she start being this way?

The interrupting started about 5 months ago.   Comments about a topic that i have asked repeatedly not to come up: a couple of years.   it hadn't come up in about 6 months.  The worst where she interrupts, gives unsolicited advice, then makes critical assumption: first time was a couple of years ago, then escalated in the last couple of months.    That why it is all weird.   She didn't used to be like this. 

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8 hours ago, Hollyj said:

The interrupting started about 5 months ago.   Comments about a topic that i have asked repeatedly not to come up: a couple of years.   it hadn't come up in about 6 months.  The worst where she interrupts, gives unsolicited advice, then makes critical assumption: first time was a couple of years ago, then escalated in the last couple of months.    That why it is all weird.   She didn't used to be like this. 

Something is going on with her I bet.  But she doesn't need to take it out on you. I had a friend once -we became close fast, and I actually came with her to help her clean out the apartment she'd shared with her ex husband -he was going to be there and she wanted me there for support (not because of any danger!).  He took me aside and whispered "thank you" and I realized why some months later -she confided in me then that she is bipolar and had a number of manic episodes while married.  Her confiding didn't change my feelings toward her.  But right after she started being flaky and unreliable and told me she'd lied on her resume about something significant.  One night we met for dinner.  I was very pregnant, very tired, waddling along, obviously moving more slowly  

We were together probably 3 hours.  Not once did she ask how I was feeling - or anything about me.  How can a person sit with another person that long, in that condition or any kind of similar medical condition and not ask once about how the person is feeling or about this huge life changing thing that is about to happen to your friend?  Just one inquiry, not that I needed to talk about myself.  I just wanted to be asked.

Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room.  I gave her one or two more chances -one time she knew I'd carved out a specific time I could see her given that I had my infant with me and she flaked on that too.  Now I keep her at arms length.  She's very engaging, very charming, very smart and we have a lot in common but yes, boundaries.  

Good luck tonight!!

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Just now, Cherylyn said:

Did you have a talk with her yet?  How did it go?  What's the outcome? 

They're probably out to dinner as we speak.  IIRC, Holly is on the East coast of the US, so it's about 6:50 PM there.

Curious, Holly, do you have to dine outdoors?  Brrrrr!

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16 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

They're probably out to dinner as we speak.  IIRC, Holly is on the East coast of the US, so it's about 6:50 PM there.

Curious, Holly, do you have to dine outdoors?  Brrrrr!

Thanks, boltnrun.  Yeah, I bet it's a tad chilly dining outdoors!  Hopefully, they were next to a heater. 

I haven't dined out since last year.  I've since done occasional take out meals but mostly cooking a lot at home which tastes better anyway not to mention that it's more economical because we have leftovers to subsist on, too.  I enjoy cooking high cuisine. 

 

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I stayed "casual" friends with someone I'd been very close to.  She and I worked for the same company at the same location in the same department so we had to be civil, but I'd "unfriended" her on social media and stopped seeing her outside of work because she'd tried to get me fired out of jealousy.  I watched my back around her but didn't intend to ever be good friends with her again.  

After about a year of this, she became pregnant as the result of an affair with a married man who shunned her once he found out.  Although she'd put herself in that situation it still sucked, so I started speaking to her more than I had been.  Long story short, we are once again good friends.  She regrets being so jealous that she'd tried to get me fired and admitted it was because she wasn't where she wanted to be in life.  We've moved on and are now close.

I can see coming back from a friendship rift, but there needs to be apologies and a sincere desire to mend the rift.

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