How Do You Balance Life with Kids?

[Seraphim]

In my family I think it had to do with the immigrant experience -mom's parents were both immigrants and dad's parents were not and had both gone to college (at least, his mother did not sure about his father who died when I was very young). My mom and her sibling went to college even though it was not emphasized for women. My mom worked part time for many years and I believe her college degree helped her get the jobs she did. My parents both valued education so much as did my inlaws.

(Oh I am tired today. What I mean about the immigrant experience is really -the American Dream -that my grandparents worked so hard to come to the US and give their family a better life and part of the better life is the opportunity to attain a higher education).

 

My mom’s parents and my suffered from a lot discrimination because they were French Canadian in English Canada. That also influenced my grandparents and my mom’s eagerness that people be educated.

[itsallgrand]

I just can't relate to the experience of being "barefoot and pregnant" young as an act of defiance. The context in which I grew up, the community, being pregnant young and stopping education and working was the norm by a landslide for girls/women. And it really wasn't and isn't totally an informed choice for many of them. Many were denied sex education, and raised in an ideology where there is crazy social pressure to marry and have kids young, and for women to not support themselves nor their families economically.

I feel very strongly about girls being able to support themselves and achieve before making a decision regarding raising children. So many reasons why. Most importantly though I want girls to be actually given choice. So many don't still. I think you are rather lucky if your experience was one in which your education and aspirations were supported and even considered.

[maritalbliss86]

I just can't relate to the experience of being "barefoot and pregnant" young as an act of defiance. The context in which I grew up, the community, being pregnant young and stopping education and working was the norm by a landslide for girls/women. And it really wasn't and isn't totally an informed choice for many of them. Many were denied sex education, and raised in an ideology where there is crazy social pressure to marry and have kids young, and for women to not support themselves nor their families economically.

I feel very strongly about girls being able to support themselves and achieve before making a decision regarding raising children. So many reasons why. Most importantly though I want girls to be actually given choice. So many don't still. I think you are rather lucky if your experience was one in which your education and aspirations were supported and even considered.

 

It is most definitely an act of defiance when you're raised in a culture who doesn't allow for that without severe social consequences. And that, unfortunately, is our environment in western cultures, for better or worse. I'm very lucky we made it all work out so well.

 

And it's a negative stereotype to believe young women can't know themselves well enough to take on marriage and children. I find it hilarious all the accusing me of degrading women, when believing that, is actually very very telling of what you actually think of women who are old enough to make adult decisions. If the women in your past community really were not given the choice, were forced or seriously pressured into doing somethign they didn't want, how is that really different from forcing someone into something they don't want to do that their parents decide is best for them? It isn't really.

 

It's not always the best idea to force or seriously pressure young women to take on tons of college debt. I knew soooo many friends who failed out or graduated but then could never really find good employment for years until they had to go into even more debt! Lots of college grads (female) who had to seriously struggle financially, working at Pizza Hut etc. Do you think they were grateful they had 100,000+ owed in loans for degrees that didn't bring forth jobs?

 

And yes, seeking an education is important in my opinion, but we largely did it without tons of debt (I had many scholarships due to my grades). I wanted and knew I needed a degree when I was only 9 and set it out to achieve that, no matter how hard it would be. I am lucky, but also unlucky in that my parents were so unaccepting of the choice I made, as my own version of what a strong, independent woman could do and achieve on her own, without financial support from parents or social support etc.

 

I am actually very proud of what I did and then going on to get a degree with an infant. I still studied and made sure I graduated with honors

[maritalbliss86]

Also, a college degree most definitely does not guarantee the female (or male) will come out intelligent or highly educated. There are a lot of college grads who, when tested, unfortunately don't know hardly anything and their money was largely a waste for some who didn't take it seriously.

 

Again, I'm surprised that it seems you all are perpetuating a negative stereotype (when accusing me of doing that) about women saying that they can't be intelligent or even educated if they don't obtain a college degree!

 

I actually believe one can be highly intelligent even without a college degree. I'm actually quite surprised at least Batya doesn't see the serious hypocrisy in accusing me of degrading women, when this kind of belief, that a woman who didn't go to college would be unintelligent or uneducated (you can really educate yourself on many things now, even without going to college).

 

We live the information age, where most research results and almost anything you'd ever want to be educated on, can be done practically for free if you know where and how to find it.

[maritalbliss86]

Somehow Im getting the sense maybe some of you don't believe women who are, "uneducated," (meaning college educated) have sufficient value or are fulfilling their full purpose?

 

My paternal grandmother was a very highly intelligent woman, but she only got her college degree late in life, after she had raised her children. She did extremely well in college, because the intelligence was already there (intelligence is largely genetic anyway)... but back then, you could be educated from other options as well. They had a lot less options than we do now, but still, it's striking to me that women would assume just because a woman wasn't a college grad, that she wasn't educated or intelligent.

 

I know there are laws in some places that try to prevent moms from being able to homeschool their children if they didn't get a college degree... and it's based on this presupposition that high school and all the years beforehand, weren't actually educating them. They're still described as, "uneducated women," even though they were educated for 12 years!

 

The state often believes these women are not intelligent enough even to teach their own 5 year olds legally! And it's illegal for them to homeschool unless they have that college degree. To me, that is just insane!

[Seraphim]

I am not saying that. My mom was not University educated but one of the smartest people I know and became the CEO of a Company all through skill alone. She was engaged at 17 married at 18 had her children by the age of 23 was divorced by the age of 26. She’s been to every continent except Antarctica. I’m definitely not saying that women can’t be something if they don’t go to school.

 

I am just saying due to certain factors it was important in my family and important from my generation on down.

 

Absolutely I understand there are intelligent people without an education and very skillful.

[Seraphim]

I am also one of those people who never use the education they went to school for but I’m not saying it’s a waste of time either everything one does one learns from.

[Seraphim]

I never disparage women I had a grandmother who was married at 15 and one who was married at 38. Each woman has a story and there are reasons for her story. But we do learn from their stories.

[Jibralta]

My generation was raised not to trust men to really provide for us, to always have a back up plan in case of divorce. We were raised to believe that marrying too young was, "settling." All that comes from negative stereotypes.

 

And even then, in general, people don't like to see a woman dependent on a man. They don't like thinking a woman may not have a college degree to fall back on because they stereotype men thinking the man may cheat or leave her (that men aren't loyal or faithful).

 

There's some truth to it, the divorce rate is high, but for men, I'm fairly certain most of them don't like the implication that they're not trustworthy and that their wife needs to make sure she can support herself in case he cheats or decides to divorce her (or vice versa... implying the marriage will fail). Having a back up plan is possibly wise, but it implies (like a pre-nup) that there's a serious level of distrust of the people's or one person's character.

 

My circumstances growing up caused me to adopt a similar mindset. A lot of people believe that when a girl grows up without a father, she blames herself, develops "daddy-issues" and looks for approval in men, ultimately causing her to settle for a loser mate.

 

But I think what really happens is, after watching her primary male role model fail at adulthood and parental responsibility, the girl naturally concludes that all men are weak and incompetent, and women have to do everything for them. She dates losers because she doesn't think there are any other kinds of men out there.

 

There have been so many single-mother households in the last 50+ years that this mindset is now dominant.

 

I do think many men are aware of it on some level, some consciously, some not. Some bask in the stereotype, others struggle against it. I know that if I were a man, it would really bother me.

 

I didn't realize that I had this mindset until I started dating my boyfriend. He naturally started taking responsibilities from me. And he teased me whenever I tried to take over: "I'm not like those other guys. Wait until you see how I can find my way to the store."

 

I didn't understand at first. I thought, "I didn't date incompetent guys...." And then one day it clicked: I didn't even give them a chance to support me. I neatly intervened at every opportunity.

 

It was a really interesting discovery!

[Seraphim]

I was raised with a completely ineffective father as well and as a result my mother did everything. So I learned just to be the dominant personality. I would say I’m the dominant personality in our marriage because that’s just me due to my upbringing and my husband was raised to be completely subservient. In recent years though he’s developed more confidence than he’s ever had and has taken more of a leadership ship role. So now I can let go the reins of life a bit.

[Batya33]

I just can't relate to the experience of being "barefoot and pregnant" young as an act of defiance. The context in which I grew up, the community, being pregnant young and stopping education and working was the norm by a landslide for girls/women. And it really wasn't and isn't totally an informed choice for many of them. Many were denied sex education, and raised in an ideology where there is crazy social pressure to marry and have kids young, and for women to not support themselves nor their families economically.

I feel very strongly about girls being able to support themselves and achieve before making a decision regarding raising children. So many reasons why. Most importantly though I want girls to be actually given choice. So many don't still. I think you are rather lucky if your experience was one in which your education and aspirations were supported and even considered.

 

I agree and I think a college degree is no guarantee of wealth (I didn't go to college to make more money; one of the many reasons I went to grad school was to improve my financial situation and it did, significantly but that was only one of the reasons) other than statistics show it's much easier to get a decent paying job with a degree than without. I think people can be extremely intelligent, rich, successful without a college degree of course. I think it's really important for a woman who plans to be home full time raising children to have marketable, employable skills just in case and a college degree increases those chances of being employable. My husband and I strongly value education and the attainment and accomplishment of at least a college degree, as did our parents. And we're passing along those values to our son and if college is right for him -he says it will be- he is 11 -then he will go and we will support him in going.

[Batya33]

Somehow Im getting the sense maybe some of you don't believe women who are, "uneducated," (meaning college educated) have sufficient value or are fulfilling their full purpose?

 

My paternal grandmother was a very highly intelligent woman, but she only got her college degree late in life, after she had raised her children. She did extremely well in college, because the intelligence was already there (intelligence is largely genetic anyway)... but back then, you could be educated from other options as well. They had a lot less options than we do now, but still, it's striking to me that women would assume just because a woman wasn't a college grad, that she wasn't educated or intelligent.

 

I know there are laws in some places that try to prevent moms from being able to homeschool their children if they didn't get a college degree... and it's based on this presupposition that high school and all the years beforehand, weren't actually educating them. They're still described as, "uneducated women," even though they were educated for 12 years!

 

The state often believes these women are not intelligent enough even to teach their own 5 year olds legally! And it's illegal for them to homeschool unless they have that college degree. To me, that is just insane!

 

Men homeschool too. So what you're referring to has nothing to do with gender even if as a practical matter more women than men homeschool. There are families with two dads, families with a single dad, families where the woman works because she can make more $ and the dad is at home and chooses to homeschool.

[maritalbliss86]

I am not saying that. My mom was not University educated but one of the smartest people I know and became the CEO of a Company all through skill alone. She was engaged at 17 married at 18 had her children by the age of 23 was divorced by the age of 26. She’s been to every continent except Antarctica. I’m definitely not saying that women can’t be something if they don’t go to school.

 

I am just saying due to certain factors it was important in my family and important from my generation on down.

 

Absolutely I understand there are intelligent people without an education and very skillful.

 

I'm so glad Seraphim... Thank you for confirming you don't look down on, "uneducated," women.

[maritalbliss86]

I really don't like arguing when dealing with so much (homeschooling the kids, lack of sleep, new baby with lots of needs) I really was not looking for contention here when rambling that women can be sneaky.

 

I tried to put forth some points that supported my thoughts on things, but most of my comments were completely ignored, especially by Batya who I was trying to engage since she's had so many issues with the way I say things.

 

I really am sleep deprived so even just making the arguments is quite a bit of effort for me, only to have most of them ignored, and the goal posts moved further to another topic.

 

I want this place to be peaceful for myself, because at this time in my life, that's what I need. So I probably won't respond to things I don't think are in earnest.

[Batya33]

I really don't like arguing when dealing with so much (homeschooling the kids, lack of sleep, new baby with lots of needs) I really was not looking for contention here when rambling that women can be sneaky.

 

I tried to put forth some points that supported my thoughts on things, but most of my comments were completely ignored, especially by Batya who I was trying to engage since she's had so many issues with the way I say things.

 

I really am sleep deprived so even just making the arguments is quite a bit of effort for me, only to have most of them ignored, and the goal posts moved further to another topic.

 

I want this place to be peaceful for myself, because at this time in my life, that's what I need. So I probably won't respond to things I don't think are in earnest.

 

I took issue with your negative stereotypes about women, yes. I was offended by your comments about women being sneaky, etc. as I am a woman. To me that's not a peaceful way to express oneself -perpetuating tired old and disparaging stereotypes about women. I'm sorry you're feeling stressed about what was posted. I think you misinterpreted what was said about college educations and financial stability. I like Seraphim qualified what I meant. I don't look down on women who choose not to get a college degree or anyone who chooses not to get a college degree. I do not like to see women being attacked as "sneaky" or that by choosing to work they're implying that their husbands aren't trustworthy or able to provide for them. That kind of sounds like you're looking down on women for being "sneaky" and not being a good partner in a relationship. Kinda gives that impression.

 

I'm sorry you feel hurt. You seem very content with your choices -that's great!

[Rose Mosse]

The irony of this discussion is that all of you are successful and very intelligent women regardless of how you were educated or when. I don't have much to comment but I've been enjoying the read.

 

Maya Angelou writes: "Each time a woman stands up for herself, without knowing it possible, without claiming it, she stands up for all women."

[Batya33]

The irony of this discussion is that all of you are successful and very intelligent women regardless of how you were educated or when. I don't have much to comment but I've been enjoying the read.

 

Maya Angelou writes: "Each time a woman stands up for herself, without knowing it possible, without claiming it, she stands up for all women."

 

Yes - loved Maya Angelou -first studied her freshman year of college! I think she is standing up for herself and her stereotypical comments about sneaky women, etc is not standing up for all women so in that particular situation I don't see it as consistent with Angelou's words. In other ways the OP certainly is.

[itsallgrand]

Maritalbliss, I'm not going to quote your reply to me, because it's long and I don't want to bung up your journal.

I just want to say that your ideas around this topic are very familiar to me. It's like a scratchy woolen sweater that has been passed down for ages in a lot of places. It makes me feel uncomfortable. Always has. It's just not consistent with my values.

So it's not lack of understanding your perspective. Though I was surprised to hear you see that way of thinking and being as defiant, or somehow out of the norm. Though actually that makes sense, because it becomes an "us versus them" thing, which is like a fortress around the beliefs.

[Batya33]

Maritalbliss, I'm not going to quote your reply to me, because it's long and I don't want to bung up your journal.

I just want to say that your ideas around this topic are very familiar to me. It's like a scratchy woolen sweater that has been passed down for ages in a lot of places. It makes me feel uncomfortable. Always has. It's just not consistent with my values.

So it's not lack of understanding your perspective. Though I was surprised to hear you see that way of thinking and being as defiant, or somehow out of the norm. Though actually that makes sense, because it becomes an "us versus them" thing, which is like a fortress around the beliefs.

 

I really like that "fortress around the beliefs!"

When my son was about two weeks old my husband' uncle called. I'd met him several times, loved him and my husband's aunt his wife of many years. He asked how I was doing. I was very overjoyed to be a mom -felt like I won the lottery!!! -and I was so exhausted, and kind of overwhelmed. I told him it was really hard work. And he laughed uproariously. He obviously thought I was joking. His wife of 60 plus years raised their two sons and was a doting and hardworking mother and just an amazing, spunky woman. All five feet of her LOL. I absolutely could not believe how he possibly could think I was joking. I didn't know his wife when their kids were small - they were in their 50s at the time - but you know I could just tell how hard she worked at raising her sons and maintaining their home and and and. And, he didn't get it. I didn't get mad at all -he was in his late 70s at the time - I mean, fine, different generation, clueless.

 

But how damaging to perpetuate any of these stereotypes -that being a full time mom is a walk in the park, that women are inherently sneakier than men, that women who work obviously don't trust their "men" to provide, that what is "virtuous" in a woman should be defined by the Bible -and a specific part of the Bible -whether or not the man or woman being told that is religious, atheist, agnostic, or believes in a different bible or spiritual text. I'm no feminist and I believe in equal treatment for all people whether man, woman, trans, African American, Native American, Irish Catholic -whatever. And perpetuating these generalizations is not an expression of peace it's the opposite.

[maritalbliss86]

But how damaging to perpetuate any of these stereotypes -that being a full time mom is a walk in the park, that women are inherently sneakier than men, that women who work obviously don't trust their "men" to provide, that what is "virtuous" in a woman should be defined by the Bible -and a specific part of the Bible -whether or not the man or woman being told that is religious, atheist, agnostic, or believes in a different bible or spiritual text. I'm no feminist and I believe in equal treatment for all people whether man, woman, trans, African American, Native American, Irish Catholic -whatever. And perpetuating these generalizations is not an expression of peace it's the opposite.

 

 

I've never stated being a full time mom is a walk in the park... this journal was started because I'm actually struggling with it (and COVID) right now. You are consistently creating false arguments based on things I am not saying.

 

And now you are claiming my religious beliefs are of violence? This is the second comment where you've attacked what I believe personally, and in rude ways, in a journal where I chronicle my thoughts on life. I've overlooked your comments because I do like you and was trying to be kind, but I believe you're now breaking forum rules.

 

I would never go to someone else's journal, and endlessly pick apart their ramblings so taht I could find things wrong to attack them over. Especially if it was their religious beliefs! That is so very disrespectful.

 

I've reported this comment because I believe it violates Rule #14.

[LaHermes]

Yes Fudgie.

 

"So many women just s__t all over each other. It's awful.

 

We each have to live our own lives as we see fit, and that's going to look different for every woman...marriage/no marriage, straight/gay/bi/pansexual, kids/no kids, FT work/PT work/no work. It's sad that people keep tearing each other down for doing things a little differently."

[Batya33]

Sure go ahead. I never wrote anything of the sort. You misinterpreted what I wrote. You’re entitled to your religious beliefs and opinions of course ! And like others I’m entitled to express when certain of those opinions offend me as a woman, as a person , as a mother. I used a stereotype of SAHM as an example of another harmful stereotype. Nothing at all to do with what you wrote. Sorry if you felt offended by what I wrote. Wasn’t my intention in the least. Take care.

[maritalbliss86]

Ironically... in light of all these conversations... my husband and I had a serious sit-down this morning to discuss financial planning again (we do this periodically... I'm like his wealth management and somehow he always forgets what's going on LOL). This is why he has me do our finances

 

I do all the management of our money... I track everything and make all the decisions, I do our taxes myself because I find it fun and somehow enjoyable. I like planning for the future, I already have our next 5 yrs financially planned out (if things go as expected) and he was really impressed at where we'll be at in estimation. With COVID, I tried to explain the different scenarios of how things could play out for us if election results get turned over, or if lockdowns happen again now, and in the spring. It was fun and things like that interest me.

 

I have zero financial (college) education, I never took any classes in that, but my dad was very good at managing money and taught me everything he knew.

[Batya33]

Glad you enjoyed your conversation about financial planning and found it interesting and productive.

[Seraphim]

Ironically... in light of all these conversations... my husband and I had a serious sit-down this morning to discuss financial planning again (we do this periodically... I'm like his wealth management and somehow he always forgets what's going on LOL). This is why he has me do our finances

 

I do all the management of our money... I track everything and make all the decisions, I do our taxes myself because I find it fun and somehow enjoyable. I like planning for the future, I already have our next 5 yrs financially planned out (if things go as expected) and he was really impressed at where we'll be at in estimation. With COVID, I tried to explain the different scenarios of how things could play out for us if election results get turned over, or if lockdowns happen again now, and in the spring. It was fun and things like that interest me.

 

I have zero financial (college) education, I never took any classes in that, but my dad was very good at managing money and taught me everything he knew.

 

I pay all our bill too . My husband calls me the wizard of the account. I used to do all our own taxes but now that I have a business I have somebody to them.