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How Do You Balance Life with Kids?


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Starting Thursday, hubby will be off 5 weeks and we'll have made it through this difficult studying phase!  Thank God!!!  Phew!!!!

I agree and disagree. I think that as people get older, our personalities, characters, habits, etc., become "calcified," and less influenced by outside forces. But I credit my years and year

This morning my husband built me two arched wire trellises for the squash vines, pumpkins and melons to grow on.  The spaghetti squash is already 7-8 ft long I think?  It looks beautiful draping over

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On 3/25/2021 at 12:30 PM, Seraphim said:

I have always been my husband’s biggest supporter and cheering squad. I will attend and do anything to advance his career. I am also my son’s biggest supporter and the biggest supporter of my mom’s career before that. I am the shadow. I get upset sometimes “ It must have been cold there in my shadow. To never have sunlight on your face. 

You were content to let me shine, that's your way
You always walked a step behind

So I was the one with all the glory
While you were the one with all the strength
A beautiful face without a name for so long
A beautiful smile to hide the pain“ my theme song all my life . 

I meant to respond more to this, Seraphim.  I'm sorry you feel like you've always been in the shadow.  I think you've created a beautiful life together and obviously have your own goals and achievements apart from things.  

But in my opinion, your family IS a major part of your achievement.

Making your marriage last, through all the crap you both have been through, is a huge achievement.

I don't know why I don't feel like I live in the shadow of my husband... I guess I see it more as us being on the same team.  His achievement means my achievement and vice versa.  We've both honed our skills over our separate domains so that we can better divide and conquer basically.  We're both very driven, passionate people, but I'm driven on the homefront. 

I know I'm thinking about going back to work at some point part time, but it's mostly just to have a skillset that's current and usable if needed.  It's not going to be a major defining feature of my life, or something I view as very competitive.  My biggest achievement will still be raising 4 great human beings and building an amazing, strong and loving family that will last a lifetime and impact the generations to come (their children and children's children).  

 

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I think I feel keenly like a shadow because I feel I have been helping to hold someone up since I have been 4 years old . That is when I realized my dad was mentally ill and my mom needed someone and it wasn’t going to be him. Sometime later when my mom was moving up the corporate ladder I was her back up as my dad was openly tried to sabotage her. I was even employed to do corporate spying to help her by rooting out info at other company’s national meetings . 
 

My husband ,he never had a cheerleader. He once me in a moment of emotional intimacy that I am his only true friend and the only person who has ever believed in him and not quit on him. 
 

My son how could I not be his biggest fan? He is my beloved and my everything. 
 

These three people I have given all I am and all I could have been. 

Edited by Seraphim
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16 hours ago, Seraphim said:

My husband ,he never had a cheerleader. He once me in a moment of emotional intimacy that I am his only true friend and the only person who has ever believed in him and not quit on him. 

I feel like I 100% understand this.  My husband felt and feels the same way.

It's interesting... what makes a first marriage work, against all odds? 

Yesterday my husband was working with a female coworker that was needing to be reintroduced due to maternity leave.  He said she couldn't believe how long we've been together, and didn't see how that's even possible!  She's had 3 LTRs and can only seem to make it last with a man for about 4 years max.

We've been friends for 16 years, in a relationship for 15 years, and married for 14 in August.

This is the norm for the world we move in right now, though, you never see people actually happily married to their first spouse, it just does not happen in our world.  

And the female coworkers unfortunately have extremely bad reputations of being serial cheaters.  I'm still able to make friends with some of the more normal women who don't cheat like that, but it is odd how many actually do seem to serially cheat.  The work-life balance also makes it hard for them to make a relationship work though.  I can't imagine trying to have babies/kids and working like my husband does, AND then keeping a relationship in good condition on top of that.  So I pointed out to him how the women in his profession have it doubly hard if they want kids or have kids. 

This woman already has two babies from different men, and just had the third with another man.  Believe it or not, this is actually normal for this environment, and I can only see it getting worse in time unless people start valuing marriage and morality etc.

He told me she asked how it was that we are able to make it work so long?  It just seems impossible from her point of view... and he answered that we got married young, are religious and have a strong faith, a lot of it does come down to that.  We bonded so strongly, and that bond and our faith has helped us go through various storms of life.

 

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It was definitely hard to be an outside the house working mom. I had to go down to part time due to my son’s disabilities as he needed extensive ongoing support. So I worked part time for many years and when we moved to our current posting I was home full time for 3 years. The transition to Highschool for my son was big. They didn’t allow him a scribe or an EA when his IEP stated he required EA support at 50% and 100 % scribe support for exams. I was told ,nope , due to no funding. He was also moved to same grade level work. Previous he was doing lower level work than his same age peers. I offered to be his EA and scribe for free but was told , nope, he had to suck it up. But he fooled them by graduating with honours at 17. My husband was pretty much gone with the military from the time my son was 8 until he was 15. 
 

This April will be our 27th Anniversary. It is a testament to team power and persistence and monumental love and a dedication to the vows we stated before God. We don’t take that lightly. We said till death to we part and we mean it. 

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Woke up at 4am with my husband this morning, him to study because he gets to go in later this week and is at a different place, and me so that I can pray and exercise and plan.  

I love the mornings.  I know morning people are annoying to some :D but I can't help loving how peaceful they are, how I have hours to myself to do whatever I want or need to do for myself.  Working out at night is ok and works, but exercising, even if it's just a little bit, in the morning feels so much better for some reason.

Plus I just love the routine of it, of doing a morning thing... meeting together before he goes off to work, etc. there's something very romantic about it and fulfilling in a deep, peaceful way. 

<3 

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Back in August I was having suicidal thoughts and had little to no self esteem. I've achieved so much, mentally and physically and I'm all set on this new adventure of life. Enotalone has been a part of that journey, and I wont forget it. 

Above quote from Dalesboy... just wanted to put it here.

I think people tend to forget that the other person may be suicidal on the other side.

Seriously... attacking a young(ish) man (or woman) may just have them end it that night.  You never know.

You never really know what someone is dealing with.  Attacking them for being too weak for an, "independent woman," who is obviously not that into him (and he's on his way figuring that out), yea, that's not really that kind or nice and not thinking about the overall impact on his mental health IN THAT MOMENT.

😞 

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Had to take all the kids out for my daughter's dance class tonight.  I'm actually amazed we've gotten through almost the whole year and my husband was able to watch the kids so up until now, I've only ever had to take our daughter.  Very glad we've been able to have more freedom in that she was able to have regular dance classes in person.  No one ever got COVID, not even anyone connected to the parents or grandparents who were coming regularly.  And we never had to shut down, not even once.

It was intimidating taking all four kids, but they did great!  The baby was the only one who had a moment where he wasn't happy, but overall it was perfect!  Took them to get ice cream afterwards and then we played some games at home before putting them all to bed. 😃🙌

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Another note relevant to balancing life with 4 kids... I think it will get harder once the baby is a full-blown toddler, and it should get easier when he's closer to 4 or even 5.  That's when you can really reason with them to behave (after the terrible 2's that last through the 3's).

It should get harder, and then much much easier! Phew!!!

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I wish I could help couples learn how to argue better... not that we're experts, we've learned through trial and error, probably mostly error.  But it is crucial to understand how to argue well... how to get to the bottom of feeling hurt or misunderstood (or taken advantage of, etc. etc. etc.).  

Miscommunications happen in marriage... it's necessary to have the skills to be able to talk through them and hear each other.

Where couples each come from mentally, their upbringing, really impacts how they take whatever issue is brought up, and the way its brought up.  There's a great book out there about this that I read years ago, when we were first married, called, "How to Argue So Your Spouse Will Listen." 

Wow is it great... it teaches each spouse to understand their own odd and irrational reactions that come from childhood, that impact their attachment styles and their ability to argue and be heard.

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On 4/1/2021 at 7:09 PM, maritalbliss86 said:

Another note relevant to balancing life with 4 kids... I think it will get harder once the baby is a full-blown toddler, and it should get easier when he's closer to 4 or even 5.  That's when you can really reason with them to behave (after the terrible 2's that last through the 3's).

It should get harder, and then much much easier! Phew!!!

My kids went thru an ornery stage at age 5, too.

My oldest (now 25) threw himself down to the cement ground for a temper tantrum at age 2. He broke his collar bone! And was ornery at 5. He was pretty chill as a teenager, so maybe he got things out of his system early on. He is doing so well as an adult too. (The younger one, 21, is the one I’m worried about).

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Soooo excited about our garden growing!  I'm not exactly sure how much we have, but it's a lot 😬....

At least 12 zuchini plants, 12 yellow summer squash vines, 4 spaghetti squash plants, 8 cucumber vines, two bunches of probably 6 mini-pumpkin vines each (and they came up by accident!), 4 tomato plants, lots of herbs and spices growing, literally hundreds of blueberries growing on two bushes from last year (was going to buy two more but I'll have to see).  

Edited to add 8 onion plants, and one giant blackberry bush I can't seem to get to produce anything (???).  Will have to figure out what I'm doing wrong with the blackberry bush....

Oh and mini-watermelons!  I think we have 4 or 6 of those growing.  

The kids love helping water them and watching them grow, and they really are taking off, we're going to have a big harvest again like last year's.  

Going to keep digging another trench and filling it with perennials/shrubs.  The one side that is finished is beautiful!!!!  Just need another on the opposite side coming down toward the entrance to match it.  

It is hard to find time to dig it, though.  The first I pushed through and got it done so fast, but this other side I've been having a hard time finding the time when the kids are ok and not wanting to play in the trench while I'm digging.  Obviously I'll have to do it when my husband watches them, but I love being with them all :D Decisions decisions... Ugh!

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Flowerbed trench is DUG!!!!!  Yay!!!!!  Now to go on filling it... need to get more plants, but not sure when I'll be albe to sneak away and get out to do that. 

LOL... Sneaking away to get plants... like it's some kind of weird obsession or taboo thing I'm doing 😂 

This is life with kids.

***

So as per my mentor's advice who like a second mom to me, plus my own mom's advice agreeing with her, they don't think I should send anymore pictures to my in-laws of our kids.  They aren't responding to them since January - a reaction to my husband setting down a boundary they I assume became angry over (again). 

Last year they were angry that we asked if they could just hold onto the gifts, as we were moving, and my husband heard his dad in the background ranting and raving about us making them wait to give the kids gifts (just till Jan).  So it's kind of normal for them to have angry reactions to our boundaries, and then, "punish," us for a few months afterward.

Anyway, I had been trying to be nice and still send them pictures in a group text with my parents and second mom ❤️ and they'd be the only ones who wouldn't respond (sometimes his mom would... but most of the time neither would say anything back).  Since it was a group text, I was glad to have witnesses who I know love and support us, to SEE how his parents just are not nice at all to me.  You'd think they'd be more conscientious and embarrassed to not respond, but they weren't.

But after I saw they ignored my text asking if they were ok during the winter storm, and yet answered the phone for my husband, only to slam him with a passive aggressive remark at the end, that's when it really did sink in that I'm too nice to them, and they just take advantage of it unfortunately, to snub me.

The sad thing is that I'm sure they really miss seeing pictures of our kids, but their pride won't allow them to be kind or even polite to me.  And my husband does not ever send them pictures... so there was great incentive for them to at least pretend to be nice 😂 they aren't gaining anything by ignoring me, if anything, it makes him despise them even more.

For example, his mom sent him a text Sunday for Easter, didn't call the kids or anything (which was surprising... she must really be mad even though it doesn't make rational sense), but in the past when we've been on good terms she would text me as well. 

The sad thing is that if she actually showed that kind of politeness to me, I would have probably responded and with pictures of the kids in their Easter clothes - hunting eggs and having lots of fun!!  I loved sending them pictures of the kids, it just got too painful once they started never responding ...  But she only texted my husband, and he didn't respond at all!  He only told me about her text and his sister texting him out of the blue, yesterday, a couple of days after the event, because he had forgotten about them.

So ironically... their trying to exclude me (again) backfired.  I really think they believe I'm to blame somehow, and that their son has zero feelings or thoughts of his own, and try to blame all of it (again) on me in some strange way.  I'm sure they blame me for him choosing to ignore them, for him not send pictures on his own, etc. which is why they still reach out to him and not me anymore, even though they're also mad at him, I think they're far more angry at me.  Boy is it confusing!  

I'm coming to see it all as a nice holiday, a great break from them, even though my heart actually feels sorry for them/hurts for them.  They aren't happy people, and their idea to ignore me isn't helping their son want to keep them in his life more, if anything their behavior is proving to him why he despises them.

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Your garden sounds gorgeous. I love reading about what others are planting. I have to wait at least another month plus to plant, and I can't wait. The aim is to slowly turn the yard into a food forrest. Everything was naked, grass only, when we moved in. I love watching it come to life, birds returned, bees, soil getting better each season. 

Pics of your garden! Lol. 🙂

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2 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

Your garden sounds gorgeous. I love reading about what others are planting. I have to wait at least another month plus to plant, and I can't wait. The aim is to slowly turn the yard into a food forrest. Everything was naked, grass only, when we moved in. I love watching it come to life, birds returned, bees, soil getting better each season. 

 

That is a great aim!!  A food forest :D Sounds so nice!  I understand about watching soil get better each season.  I was impatient, so I brought in over 400 pounds of soil just to try to amend it to better growth opportunities, so far it has worked very well.  And I LOVE watching all the different birds and bees come by :D Ugh!  makes my heart so happy ❤️ 

2 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

Pics of your garden! Lol. 🙂

I wish, husband said no to pics to help keep privacy.

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🗃️Philosophical Soap Box Time 😂

From Jilbralta's thread, I talked about, "winning," in a situation with her boss. 

But I think of winning differently than probably most do... I think of it in terms of getting a good deal, finding the best option, not in crushing your enemy or competition, or whatever you are up against.

I believe that the best option is not just one winning for themselves, my aim is to have a situation where ALL parties, "win."  It's called a, "Win/Win," situation.  Everyone works together to get the best deal, to find the best option that helps all parties.

Unfortunately, not everyone thinks this way.  

A lot of people (my in-laws are a good example of this unfortunately) seem to think in a Win/Lose mentality.  They can't accept basic boundaries my husband sets and respect him, creating a Win for us, instead it has to be a Win for them and a Loss for us, or they are unhappy and seek punishing behaviors.

To me that's psycho!  Why not just work together and respect each other and come to the table with the desire to have a Win/Win?  Why does someone have to lose?

These ideas I believe came from Stephen Covey, and he has other options such as, "No Deal," where you have to walk away. 

That's actually where my husband is at with his parents right now.  When someone refuses to meet you halfway, try to find a balance of Win/Win where you both benefit longterm, the only option is to give in to them and allow a Win/Lose, OR you can walk away and it's a No Deal.

 

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I feel bad saying my husband is despising his parents. 😕  But the truth is simply that he's changing.  That's the logical consequences of when people treat you like cr*p, you start to really dislike them overtime.

I could go back a couple of years, it's been a slow evolution of him finally, "seeing," how they really treat our kids and me also.  How they ostracize us at events, etc.  Him seeing how his brother was completely rejecting our kids and him at their wedding in a very symbolic way, but the change has really sped up in the last year. 

I think it finally sank in for him, when his brother and SIL never said anything about the last baby's birth.  He was in disbelief about it for months and would bring it up to me how they still had never said anything at all to him.  

This didn't surprise me though. 

It was very clear they wanted absolutely nothing to do with him, or our kids.  He's always been kind to them, though, so this came as a shock to him.

It's really odd that his parents don't seem able to understand this either.  That they're literally reaping what they sowed when their kids were young and they allowed his siblings to always leave him out, to disrespect him all throughout his childhood.  It's reaping time, and it's ugly!

The very reason we have 4 kids is because my husband refused to ever have 3.  He was certain one child would always be left out and neglected/despised like he was, so it was either going to be 2 if we had a girl and a boy, or we'd go for 4 so one was never left out (in his thinking).  

That's how dramatic his childhood affected him, but it's still affecting him.  It's a lifelong pain he's having to accept and overcome.  His brother and his sister are still very close, almost always leave him out, and now that extends down to his children being left out, which I think is even more painful because he can clearly see how wrong it is now.  When it was just him he could pass over it, but harm his kids, now he's starting to see how truly awful they really are.  And of course our children are going to notice this favoritism.  Our oldest already does.

Our oldest realized this past year that his uncle on that side really doesn't make any effort to get to know him, never sends him cards, calls or anything, but I'm helping him understand it's their issue.  They could be kind and loving if they wanted, it has nothing to do with him or his siblings.  It is wholly their problem.  I've waited for 10 years for him to notice this on his own, if he noticed at all, but I guess I was always hopeful that his uncle would come around, step up and want to get to know our son.  

When I send family members, especially our niece/nephews, cards it's because of the principle of it, because it's right and is a Win/Win.  Their parents can reject it, but when it comes to my niece or my nephew, I'm going to show kindness to them, just like we've done for their parents.  Maybe at some point that won't be appropriate, we'll have to see, but it's clear his brother and SIL don't act on the principle of treating others the way you'd want to be treated.

I don't think they understand Win/Win situations.  His brother lives out the Lose/Win paradigm actually, where he does what people push him to do, even if it's not actually what he wants himself, and then he self-sabotages the efforts, making it into a Lose/Lose to get back at the person he allowed to originally, "Win."  An example would be when his dad pushed him into a career we all knew he probably didn't want to do.  But instead of having boundaries and standing up to his dad (like my husband has always had to do, and pay for it dearly!), his brother gives in and then makes sure he sabotages the efforts.  He gives in to his dad even though he hates it Lose for him/Win for his dad, and then sabotages so that it becomes a Lose/Lose for both of them.  Bleh!  It's very hard to watch someone self-destruct, and for 16 years he's lived like that.

I've helped my husband see that there've been countless examples of his brother reacting in that Lose/Win way.  It's almost as though it's become his lifestyle or something.  I hate watching it in action... like watching a train wreck or something.  Very grateful we aren't party to witnessing that anymore.

The thing though when someone is raised in that kind of way, it crosses over into how his brother believes others should act, like when he out of the blue, demanded pictures of our kids very suddenly, yet hadn't had a relationship with them for years, and didn't say anything to his brother about the last birth etc.   

He expected my husband to be OK with accepting a Lose/Win situation, where he'd hand over pictures of our kids to someone who is practically a stranger to them, hasn't had a relationship with him and not been kind to our kids for years now (major Lose for my husband, but a Win for his ridiculous brother doing the asking).  Even just demanding them like that, he didn't even use the word, "please," was insanely disrespectful (Lose for my husband/Win for his brother).  And then when we said we'd prefer to have an actual relationship first, that it's disrespectful to just demand pictures in that way and without even having a relationship with us or the kids, (Win/Win or it's a No Deal), his dad tried to strong-arm us into counseling with them (another Lose/Lose because his brother would just go through the motions and we'd lose time, energy, self-dignity by playing along with that).

I LOVE the Win/Win or No Deal mindset.  I absolutely love being able to walk away from a scenario that doesn't benefit both parties.  Or reject something that isn't appropriate.  It forces people to have to be considerate, or choose an amicable No Deal and we'll come back to it later if they change their mind.

So this year has been enlightening for my husband.  He's finally, "seen," a lot of how they all act in severely dysfunctional ways and expect us to just take it.  He's seeing how they don't want us to be in a Win/Win situation, and he's seen how that isn't good for our kids (or me obviously).

 

 

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So excited about our plants though!!!!  Buying some rare vines I've literally been waiting for a YEAR to buy over the phone this morning!!!!!  

It's like Christmas over here or something :D 😍!!!

And we have an appointment today to look at the kids' pictures :D !!!!

It's going to be an amazing, beautiful day. 

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6 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

And then when we said we'd prefer to have an actual relationship first, that it's disrespectful to just demand pictures in that way and without even having a relationship with us or the kids, (Win/Win or it's a No Deal), his dad tried to strong-arm us into counseling with them (another Lose/Lose because his brother would just go through the motions and we'd lose time, energy, self-dignity by playing along with that).

Wow, I should amend this!  Technically we ended up settling with a lower form of Win/Win by agreeing to send them portraits of the kids yearly, or when we take them.  This was not for them though, it really was only in effort to honor his parents because they really wanted this.  It seemed more than reasonable, considering his brother/SIL didn't want to meet our proposal of sending our kids cards, calling them, or having any kind of meaningful relationship with them.  

So we did end up compromising by sending 8x10 pictures over Christmas - how could I forget this?!  I guess it's the sleep deprivation LOL. 

We just didn't feel comfortable sending them on demand from my husband's cell phone, after years of never hearing from them about anything.  Just felt way too personal and boundary crossing to give in without some kind of confrontation and proposal to do things differently (to get to a Win/Win).  I know it sounds like it could be a petty reaction, but it just feels really uncomfortable sending pictures of one's kids to people who 1) obviously don't like you/my husband, and 2) are practically strangers and aren't even involved in the kids' lives!  It just feels sketchy as all get-out!  

So we settled for something we felt comfortable with and were happy with.  I'm glad they get to have the 8x10's yearly.  It's something I can happily live with and not feel guilty.

But I'm 100% certain they're not going to reciprocate. 

They're having their first child this week, or they already had it last week, and of course we're going to hear about their new baby from someone else.  So I seriously LOL at the thought of getting pictures of that child in return.  They aren't that classy... or nice.  I'll make sure we send a card congratulating them.  It won't be appreciated 🤷‍♀️  but it's the right thing to do.

I like knowing that our actions aren't based on a reaction to their actions.  When your actions are based on principle, you can do what you think is right, regardless of what the other party decides to do.  

We aren't going to stubbornly refuse to send a card acknowledging their baby's birth (even though they did do that to us, we want to send one because it's nice and the kind/right thing to do.

But thank God my family is not like this, if we have a problem with each other, we actually work it out and talk about it, and we don't make random insane demands of each other, offending each other's boundaries, refusing to apologize or ever make amends (both my parents and brother and I apologize when needed).  There's something actually gross about his family.  I know that sounds odd, but it actually grosses me out how they all behave, so abnormal and unreasonable.

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16 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

But thank God my family is not like this, if we have a problem with each other, we actually work it out and talk about it, and we don't make random insane demands of each other, offending each other's boundaries, refusing to apologize or ever make amends (both my parents and brother and I apologize when needed).  There's something actually gross about his family.  I know that sounds odd, but it actually grosses me out how they all behave, so abnormal and unreasonable.

Real quick before helping the oldest with his literature class....  Just going on the, "gross," factor...  I didn't understand that, why on earth do I have that feeling when thinking about their actions or dealing with their actions?  But it popped into my head this morning that it's gross because they (I guess?) seem to devalue human life. 

Like the way my SIL horribly used her mother this last year, and it really did last about a whole year, as they were already down there watching her child in a trailer and having to live inside it, for that long of a time, culminating with the dangerous winter storm, not even brought inside their big house....   I know I've already gone into all of that here in this journal, but it's a good example.  They completely devalue my MIL and her own wishes, her own personhood (she's SIL's slave), and even her life!

Then it extends to our children, which are obviously like treasures to us.  They are each so amazing, sweet, loving and beautiful, but their Aunts and Uncle want nothing to do with them... they literally don't value getting to know our children for who they are.  Devaluation of human life.  I know they treated my husband like that so theoretically I should have understood that would be the way they'd treat our kids by default, but it was still surprising to see play out in the last few years.

I don't think my husband will ever be able to see his sister the same way again after that storm, though, and the way he found out his mom was treated.  It altered his perception of her, permanently, this past year.  Just like he sees his brother very differently now.  At least his eyes are fully opened... he's seeing them as they truly are, almost soulless.

 

**Can't wait till we can go back and talk to our sweet, brilliant psychologist/therapist man and complain about all of this.  Just seeing him brightens my entire day, going to see him is like going to see a wise old relative who you can trust really knows you, loves you, and wants the best for you long-term.  He is so compassionate and understanding, and he labeled all of them long ago as, "Just not nice people."  Yes, Mr. X... that makes sense.  Why I try to overthink it and splice out each interaction I'll have to ask him next time.  

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From another thread on reciprocal relationships:

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Shy is not an excuse -I have a number of friends who are shy.  I'm good at making shy people feel comfortable around me.  But no I'm not going to do the lion's share of the work in a friendship.  You all had to adjust to keeping in touch in a different way.  B and I went from working together, to not working together but working near each other, to not living near each other at all.  And for 17 years we've kept in regular touch.  not just on facebook (she and i rarely post on FB).

I think if you feel lonely, or want a better friendship or relationship with someone, it is absolutely necessary to reach out and develop it from your own standpoint.

BUT... and this is huge, I think one needs to learn when it's time to walk away from a friendship or relationship.

I didn't really understand that until watching my husband with his brother.  He tried to develop a friendship and relationship with that guy for years and years... and was rejected 100's of times.  I watched all of it play out, and finally my husband got to the point of mentally letting go, but it took years of him trying to develop a meaningful relationship with his brother, and always being rejected (or his brother acquiescing, and then sabotaging the efforts... so odd to watch).   

Anyway, my point is that sometimes we really may want a deep relationship or friendship with someone else, but it may not be possible because the other person truly doesn't desire that.  And we have to learn to respect that and walk away.

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