How Do You Balance Life with Kids?

[Seraphim]

20 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

That makes total sense, Seraphim.  I do understand that, and believe me I try very hard to be polite (they don't think so though when I have to tell them when my husband won't, that they can't watch our kids alone anymore or things like that....).  But I do try to say it in a nice way, I'm definitely not abrasive with them.  I WAS abrasive though with some of his extended family (who were just insane people... I mean one man actually spit in my husband's face... I was VERY very abrasive with him and one other Aunt, but they really asked for it).

But yes, I send his siblings' kids' cards and write nice messages and love them because not only is it important to my husband, it's just the freaking right thing to do.  I'm very nice to his mom, very polite, and thankfully it has gotten easier because I really do feel a stronger love for her now.  I feel like I understand them better, even if I get very frustrated with the passive aggressive stunts and things.  

Thank you though, your example is helping me process the future a lot.  I'm very grateful for  your posts and input.

You seem a very sensible smart person. 😊

As time goes by it becomes more important because our kids model our examples and thoughts. My son is an adult now and has entirely independent thoughts and beliefs all his own that I have no impact on. However, I did influence him in many many ways and one is deep devotion to family, BOTH his families. I have to respect that. So it becomes all the more important to our most cherished relationships to remember we are part of two families once we make children. 

[Batya33]

I would prioritize directness over politeness if politeness means using indirect/vague or implicit language. No need to be abrasive, it's a spectrum but what's the point of politeness if at the end you're going to have to keep repeating the same thing over and over -which in itself is not that polite.  Sorry for your challenges and struggles!

[Seraphim]

27 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would prioritize directness over politeness if politeness means using indirect/vague or implicit language. No need to be abrasive, it's a spectrum but what's the point of politeness if at the end you're going to have to keep repeating the same thing over and over -which in itself is not that polite.  Sorry for your challenges and struggles!

Sometimes even directness gets you nowhere . I know for me it would have got me thrown out of my in-laws house never to return. My in-laws are not reasonable no matter what language or approach you use. I am not sure hers are either. There are those people who are not reasonable at all, they HAVE HAVE to be right. 
 

In those situations you have to do what you can to preserve your relationship with your spouse. 

[maritalbliss86]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I would prioritize directness over politeness if politeness means using indirect/vague or implicit language. No need to be abrasive, it's a spectrum but what's the point of politeness if at the end you're going to have to keep repeating the same thing over and over -which in itself is not that polite.  Sorry for your challenges and struggles!

Yea one time my husband was just discussing what milk he liked to drink as a child, and when he said what he remembered, his dad said it was another kind of milk, and my husband reasserted it was different.  My FIL, right in front of me, when into a crazy almost screaming-kind of rant and became very angry my husband had a different memory of his own likes and dislikes!  

I remember I'd never seen a grown man have that kind of reaction to a simple disagreement.  And how crazy he wouldn't just allow my husband to have his own preference in memory....  I've come to understand it must be all about control or something.  What else makes sense with that kind of insanely over-the-top reaction?

 

[maritalbliss86]

So when I was abrasive with these people, that was almost 10 years ago now.  I was admittedly an idiot and naiive... but my counselor (same one my husband is going to right now) said he was amazed I lasted 5 years around those people without blowing up and losing control.  

I'm sure I would have handled things differently if I'd been older (we just would have distanced a lot more and cut people out silently), but back then, at 24, I had no clue.

[SherrySher]

1 minute ago, maritalbliss86 said:

So when I was abrasive with these people, that was almost 10 years ago now.  I was admittedly an idiot and naiive... but my counselor (same one my husband is going to right now) said he was amazed I lasted 5 years around those people without blowing up and losing control.  

I'm sure I would have handled things differently if I'd been older (we just would have distanced a lot more and cut people out silently), but back then, at 24, I had no clue.

You did really well. You must be quite strong.

[Seraphim]

6 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Yea one time my husband was just discussing what milk he liked to drink as a child, and when he said what he remembered, his dad said it was another kind of milk, and my husband reasserted it was different.  My FIL, right in front of me, when into a crazy almost screaming-kind of rant and became very angry my husband had a different memory of his own likes and dislikes!  

I remember I'd never seen a grown man have that kind of reaction to a simple disagreement.  And how crazy he wouldn't just allow my husband to have his own preference in memory....  I've come to understand it must be all about control or something.  What else makes sense with that kind of insanely over-the-top reaction?

 

I hear you my husband was thrown out of his home because he wasn’t home on time for dinner when he was 20 once. He even called to say why and his dad didn’t care. 
 

Also at 35 he was yelled at for daring to go to the bathroom at dinner time. 
 

Not every set of parents is sane. 

[LaHermes]

MB.

"What else makes sense with that kind of insanely over-the-top reaction?"

Simple answer is insanity. 

How many years/decades of this, MB, do you think lie before you?  

And that was a screaming tantrum over something so simple as milk.  The underlying violence there is what would concern me. And it is there, make no mistake. 

 

[Seraphim]

8 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

MB.

"What else makes sense with that kind of insanely over-the-top reaction?"

Simple answer is insanity. 

How many years/decades of this, MB, do you think lie before you?  

And that was a screaming tantrum over something so simple as milk.  The underlying violence there is what would concern me. And it is there, make no mistake. 

 

The thing is, is her hubby going to ditch his parents ? Doubtful. So like me you have to make it work with your sane spouse who has an insane family. Thank goodness my torment is coming to a close . It is just the old bat now and she doesn’t call the shots my husband doesn’t care what she rambles about. His father is the star of the universe and he has been out of commission for sometime now. 
 

She might have to wait it out like I did. 

[maritalbliss86]

17 hours ago, SherrySher said:

You did really well. You must be quite strong.

You are so kind, Sherry.  My strength and joy comes from God.  I could not maintain myself without His constant direction and sustenance.

He's the One who gives me power to be kind to people who curse us, mistreat us, misuse us, etc.  I'm able to bless them because of Him working through me I think... because I don't think I'd be able to do any of that (just too hard) without God.

 

[Seraphim]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

You are so kind, Sherry.  My strength and joy comes from God.  I could not maintain myself without His constant direction and sustenance.

He's the One who gives me power to be kind to people who curse us, mistreat us, misuse us, etc.  I'm able to bless them because of Him working through me I think... because I don't think I'd be able to do any of that (just too hard) without God.

 

The same for me or I would have checked out of life long ago. 

[maritalbliss86]

I replied to LH privately... but I wondered if it'd be worth it to talk about here, too.  Maybe someone else needs to read this.

Yes, sometimes it scares me to think there could be, "decades," of crazy in-laws.  I have come to love them, but that also isn't exactly appealing.  Plus, the more important factor is that it is not easy to see one's husband not be able to stand up for himself (and his wife/family)... usually things like that ruin a marriage.  It's not attractive that he allows them to harm us (sometimes) and has issues he has to work through. It's a major weakness, and men are supposed to be strong (women need to be strong, too, with their families who try to intrude or cause problems).

But the only other option (for people in this situation) is divorce - which comes with it's own very difficult journey.  It really does ruin families.  And we have such a beautiful family.  I'm under no delusions that it really would be in any way, "whimsical," to be free from the crazy in-law drama.  Maybe in some ways it would be carefree (channeling my inner cat-lady with kids here lol).  But I understand it's more likely to be an all new devastatingly horrible thing and much worse than the minor inconveniences of his crazy family now.  Our kids would probably hate me for the rest of their lives, especially our oldest who looks/acts exactly like his dad ❤️.  

He is such a good husband in all other ways and an incredible dad.  I get it that divorce is necessary in some cases (probably many who come to enotalone), but even when it is necessary, it harms everyone involved for life.  It reaches down and harms people through generations later.  It's mysterious in the way the harm can be very far-reaching.  

I know he's having struggles with this, it's probably cringeworthy to read for some, but honestly sometimes seeing him struggle actually makes me love him more because I can see that side of him no one else ever sees (or really knows about).  And I don't even have to choose to go that route 99% of the time, I just naturally feel it.  Plus I get it where it's coming from (probably childhood PTSD or something like it), so I have a ton of sympathy, and we talk everything out, devise new plans and work together on it.

But pretending the struggle (for me) isn't there, is probably a disservice in being honest. 

I think if more people acknowledged just how hard it is to have a beautiful marriage in spite of the reality of life being (always and for everyone alike) hard, then there would be a lot more epic-style type of marriages where their love truly does overcome obstacles and finish strong.

I mean, even glamorous Hollywood couples can't seem to hold a decent marriage together.  And when one couple manages to do that, it's rightfully pointed out as something rare for that set, and something to really admire. 

And Hollywood people usually have access to things normal people would never even dream of. If it's hard for them (with endless supplies of material wealth and goods and desires fulfilled) you can BET it's going to be at least just as hard, if not harder, for average people.  Although you can make the case for it being easier for us average Joe's... with less fame and fortune and wealth, there are less strange temptations pulling at you both materially and psychologically.

I'm sure holding together a marriage, working to make it truly deep and beautiful, in it's own time, that usually happens only with time, it happens in spite of everything else. 

It happens when you start to accrue deep shared experiences of working through things like this.

But building a strong, beautiful marriage doesn't happen when you give up easily.  It doesn't happen where there isn't perseverance and some degree of suffering of both people (and not talking about too much suffering or abuse).  I know everyone hates thinking anyone should ever suffer... we're all supposed to be living our best life right? That's why Facebook and things like that are so popular, glamorizing life, no one ever wants to think suffering or persevering through hard things together, is something particularly good.  

And I don't think most people ever stop to really understand that to have a good life that's full, it will involve going through things that will stretch you, grow you, and help you become stronger.  Being single has struggles designed to do that as well.  And if married, you have the opportunity to become bonded stronger together through the bad things you've weathered - if you've chosen to weather them well. 

Like a ship weathering a terrible storm, that's what life can be, single or married alike.  In many ways, having your partner there on the ship as well makes it A LOT easier to get through.  Loneliness is (in my opinion) the much bigger pain and suffering one can feel in life.

Life in general, means suffering in different ways.  Most all religions/philosophies teach that, even Atheists admit life is usually fairly hard, then you die. *insert an Atheist smirking at you LOL*

For marriage, it really is in how the two people decide to do it together (or not) that makes the difference if they can last and work things out.

For us, our mutual faith helps a ton, it gives him strength to know he's liable to God for protecting us, and that when he's failing at that, he's actually also failing his role God's given him.  It gives him a much greater incentive to get it right, rather than me having to nag him night and day and also ruining our marriage happiness in that way.  And it helps me let things go (it's a sin not to) and not let it negatively affect the way I love him still.

But both of us still have to choose to do the right thing, and it is sometimes a struggle for both of us.  And either of us could give up and decide it's too much.  But then we'd really end up with more heartache and missing out on what could have been.

Just wanted to put that out there, maybe someone else needs to hear all of that.

[Seraphim]

You can do it. It hasn’t sunk us after 32 years. 😉

We have weathered EVERYTHING and nothing can sink us. 
 

You can do it too. 

[LaHermes]

You are quite right, MB. Life can be quite a trudge at times. And no one, none's life is perfect. Far from it.

You are also totally right about this daft idea many have that life should only be "happiness", shiny, bright and if possible in technicolour!  And of course a marriage takes work. Lots. It is, or should be, a joint effort, the skipper and his mate sailing safely through the high waves. Or as an old pal of my Dad's used to say: "The spade work starts after the honeymoon is over". 

There isn't a strong marriage in this land or any other,

that hasn't required work and effort. 

You do have a beautiful family, MB, and a good and caring husband. 

17 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

 if married, you have the opportunity to become bonded stronger together through the bad things you've weathered - if you've chosen to weather them well. 

Exactly. "Together" is the important word here.  And, in my view, divorce would not be an option, by any means, due to the invasive force of toxic "family" (outsiders IMO). And it is evident, MB, that the situation does bother you considerably or you would not be here

 

17 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

the more important factor is that it is not easy to see one's husband not be able to stand up for himself (and his wife/family)..

Looking at the situation, from where I am (many thousands of miles from you!) there has to be some reason why your husband is scared of these people. So, let them rant or get into childish  passive-aggressive tricks I am assuming it is unlikely they'll hire a few heavies to burn your house down or trash your vehicle or start sending stalky hate mail. So, thee is no concrete reason for "fear". 

I would most certainly NOT throw aside my marriage because of these people. But steps will have to be taken so that you get some peace over the coming years, to ensure that YOUR relationship with your husband isn't corroded. I would never, ever, tell you to just put up with it!  

Everyone's background is different and it does define us.

I never knew my paternal grand-father as he died before I was born, and my paternal grandmother died when I was very little. My maternal grand-parents yes.  However, they lived a long way from us, and we saw them perhaps in Summer and at Christmas.  Lovely memories. Never, ever, at any time did those good people interfere in any way in my parents' life.  Then again, these were all extremely sane people. Mind you, knowing my parents, god help anyone who might have tried that kind of stunt. L.

My aunts and uncles lived quite a distance from us too, but socialised with my parents now and then.  

I think that phrase: "Start as you intend to go on" is very valid. Ranting, toddler-adults (even middle aged ones, can be shown boundaries. However,if you continue to give the toddler sweeties every time s/he lies screaming and kicking on the floor, then all you can expect is more of the same.

I admire you MB, you sound like a solid and extremely kind person. You deserve, as does your husband, a peaceful life, as you I am sure have plenty to deal with every day without the "invaders" taking up space in your mind.

Every good wish for Christmas to you, MB, and may I use your thread to wish a very happy and peaceful Christmas to everyone here.  And a great New Year. 

 

[maritalbliss86]

Looking at the situation, from where I am (many thousands of miles from you!) there has to be some reason why your husband is scared of these people. So, let them rant or get into childish  passive-aggressive tricks I am assuming it is unlikely they'll hire a few heavies to burn your house down or trash your vehicle or start sending stalky hate mail. So, thee is no concrete reason for "fear". 

 

It's complicated! 

He does have extended family (cousins) who most definitely are into the criminal element.  We married so young, and they were younger, I didn't realize what I was getting into. (I know that's a lame excuse, but we really didn't realize they'd turn out to be criminal back then... they all had normal, working parents).

One is for sure in a biker gang, and a few others hate him (and us) now.  It's good we've cut t hem out, but his mother is still close with their moms, and she sends things about us to them, shares pictures etc. so I've had to cut back on the pictures I share with his parents unfortunately.

When we bought a house, she unwisely shared lots of pictures of it with her family (and it was very beautiful and 3,000+ sq ft).  I get it she was proud of my husband, but it was not smart to share something like that with envious people who already hate us.  When we bought a gorgeous black piano from New York, she shared pictures of that with their moms.  Her sisters (their moms) always competed with her, and this continued through their children (his cousins), so I guess she's still competing.  It's one reason why I don't use Facebook, it would just continue this immature (and dangerous) behavior.

But with his parents, the fear is from childhood, from being abused.  Even though he's strong and confident with everyone else, I think this is still hungover from that (we're going to ask the counselor if maybe it's from childhood PTSD or something... he'd have to diagnose that).

[maritalbliss86]

Saw this and thought it was good.

"The Butterfly"

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly.
One day a small opening appeared. He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through that little hole.

Until it suddenly stopped making any progress and looked like it was stuck.

So the man decided to help the butterfly. He took a pair of scissors and snipped off the remaining bit of the cocoon. The butterfly then emerged easily, although it had a swollen body and small, shriveled wings.

The man didn’t think anything of it and sat there waiting for the wings to enlarge to support the butterfly. But that didn’t happen. The butterfly spent the rest of its life unable to fly, crawling around with tiny wings and a swollen body.

Despite the kind heart of the man, he didn’t understand that the restricting cocoon and the struggle needed by the butterfly to get itself through the small opening; were God’s way of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings. To prepare itself for flying once it was out of the cocoon.

Moral of the story:
Our struggles in life develop our strengths. Without struggles, we never grow and never get stronger, so it’s important for us to tackle challenges on our own, and not be relying on help from others.

[LaHermes]

27 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

But with his parents, the fear is from childhood, from being abused.  Even though he's strong and confident with everyone else, I think this is still hungover from that

Understood completely, MB.  It must be so hard to shake off the consequences of that kind of treatment.  I cannot imagine. It's like having your ankles shackled.  You DO have the key in your hand to open the shackles and yet you (he) cannot quite work out why he is in fear of undoing the shackles.  Of course it is complicated. But I feel that he and you will get there.

 

[Seraphim]

My counselor once told me my husband MIGHT deal with his extreme fear of his father after his death or maybe never. 
 

Both my husband and I grew up in abusive homes. Abusive in different ways but you carry it with you in various ways sometimes forever . Therapy helps but it will never make it disappear. You still lived it and when you live it as a child it affects how your brain develops, even physically how your brain develops. 
 

It is intensely complicated when you love the people who the most in the world should have protected and cherished you but instead abused you. Your sense of boundaries and trust and self and perception of the world are obliterated and you have to rebuild it as an adult. 

[maritalbliss86]

We had a sweet, peaceful Christmas.  We usually celebrate it a little differently to work around my husband's schedule, so this year we actually celebrated all day on Christmas Eve.  Very nice.

And then on the night of Christmas, I had printed out little homemade booklets of carols to sing - something new we've never done just as our family alone and not out with a group caroling.  It was soooo sweet!  My husband helped me light little tea light candles everywhere downstairs, we turned off all the lights except the Christmas lights on the tree and the stairs, and the kids were in awe of how strange it was to be inside yet that dark (we always have little lights on in case they wake up during the night).

My husband loved it and wants to do it again each year....  Our oldest loved it, but remarked it was just, "Too much singing!"  LOL 😂 So cute.

[maritalbliss86]

For Epiphany, we're going to go to a celebration where they light Japanese water lanterns and let them float away on a lake.  We've never done anything like that before, but I want our kids to have that experience.

I gave my mom a tip where she can find a place where they say they are giving away 100's of vaccines (since she and my dad won't see us without one).  

It's annoying they're not making that information more readily available.  It's in a very, "old money," area of town go figure.  I love that area, but it's unmistakably where most of the millionaires and old money families live in our city.  They are not servicing the very poor, or minority areas, like they said they would.  At least not here, yet.

 

[maritalbliss86]

Very proud of my husband....

So his parents ended up never responding to his text trying to figure out when they'd actually come down etc.  

This time it really did get to him.  They are always on their phones, so the least they could do (in his mind) was to at least acknowledge they even received his text.  But they both went radio silent on him.

Then on top of that, they decided to cancel at the last minute on the day they planned on coming.  

None of this bothered me because I was kind of in la-la land and flitting around getting Christmas things done!  I'm very good at separating myself (sometimes, not all the time) when I can at least find positive and exciting distractions.  I really could have been some kind of crazy cat lady🐈🐈 🐈... I would have had so much fun! LOL  And our oldest totally understands this - he gets me - his crazy mom 😂

Anyway... So then last night my husband confessed they really did bother him internally.  And he said it affected the way HE then treated them.  He got another text from them the next day (a day after they had initially said they'd come), asking when would be a good time, and he could have responded quickly, but he chose to wait hours and hours...  because he was still angry at how they had never responded to him.  

Lord have mercy.

So I gently told him how I wasn't sure that was good for him... you know... to copy their toxic behaviors.  It may feel good at that moment (kind of?), but you pay for things like that internally.  Plus all that anger he has isn't really dealt with then.

The better option (maybe, I said), would probably to have sent another text the night before the scheduled day, asking if they'd received your initial text, and if things were still on because he'd never heard back from them.  That way it would have forced them to have to confront their passive aggressive behavior of ignoring him.  Or he could have let them know (once they texted the scheduled day that they were suddenly canceling) that he'd already planned something else and wouldn't have been available anyway, because he never heard back from them (that forces them to deal with the consequences of being a$$holes).  Both of those ways are probably healthier options than passive aggression. 

And that way he doesn't get dragged down into the mud with crazy people 🤓  But punishing them in some passive aggressive kind of way probably isn't healthy for him long-term. 

I'm sure feeling that kind of negative emotions almost every time we have to see them (because they inevitably always try to cause some kind of unnecessary drama) is not healthy for your body.  I'm pretty sure it takes it's toll to be around toxic people (physically and mentally).  Plus it's a constant temptation for him it seems, to, "pay them back," I suppose?

Granted neither of us understand how to effectively deal with passive aggressive people.  I'm sure his psychologist will help with that though at some point next time he sees him.

At least we're on the same page again that their behavior affects us whether we'd like it to or not.  He's inching closer to cutting them out entirely.  I, of course, probably feel too much sorrow for them.

[maritalbliss86]

I'm bad 💞 LOL

I also teased him that waiting to respond like that works sometimes for picking up girls half his age (if he so wanted) because it'd imply he was busy and productive LOL  Only to a certain point though... if a guy waits too long then girls get offended and move on.  So he's learning great pick-up artist skills out of this!

That really got him out of his contemplative mood 😂  He spanked me and told me I was the only one he wants (obviously lol).  

[Seraphim]

It might be good he cuts them out but there is a price for that too, not just for him , but your kids as well. So really really think about it. You can have limited contact.

[LaHermes]

You naughty girl, MB! lol.

18 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

I'm sure feeling that kind of negative emotions almost every time we have to see them (because they inevitably always try to cause some kind of unnecessary drama) is not healthy for your body.  I'm pretty sure it takes it's toll to be around toxic people (physically and mentally). 

You can be quite certain of that MB. Of course toxicity takes its toll, it sticks like sludge. And it isn't just when you actually see them, with their mindless ranting and drama, it's the space they take  up in your head even when they are not even close by.

Also, pent-up resentment and anger (your husband) causes stress, ongoing stress, which is dreadfully bad for one's health.

A resolution will present itself one way or another MB. 

[Jibralta]

3 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Granted neither of us understand how to effectively deal with passive aggressive people. 

Does anybody? It's one of the hardest things to do, especially when you actually care (or have to work with) the people who are being passive aggressive. When you don't care, it's easy. But when you do care, you end up feeling crummy even when you respond correctly.