Finding a smart, conservative woman

[pudgeface]

You replied to me, OP, when I asked about your shyness:

 

OP. In your first post you remarked:

 

"I'm pretty shy for someone of my age, "

 

So, would this perhaps lie at the heart of the matter? Would you find it difficult, because of your shyness, to approach women?

 

Your reply:

 

"You have no idea how difficult, but I still do it."

 

So I take that to mean you do approach women?.

 

Shyness can be a real shackle. I do understand that.

 

I do approach women, but I rarely do it out of the blue. I remember talking to a therapist once who said I should do just that. So I did it a few times. The last time I did it, I remember the girl I approached was so scared she could barely talk. I felt like I was mugging her. I excused myself and left her alone to calm down. Other experiences weren't that bad, but didn't result in anything.

[Rose Mosse]

It sounds like you're nervous and lonely more than anything. That's perfectly fine. Stay productive though and don't let those negative thoughts pull you down. You don't appear to have much time to yourself and that can create pockets of issues and resentments that don't heal or resolve over time you may be able to carry on a facade for a few years but it'll fall apart. You have to work on that time issue. A partner won't view this as attractive or feasible in the long term. You just won't have enough time to deal with your insecurities and process yourself, let alone a relationship. Any disagreements or issues won't appear to be relevant or have space in your life.

 

The ingredients are fairly simple to me - adequate time for a relationship and remaining kind to each other.

 

You don't need fancy bells and whistles for a successful relationship. Most people, on average, can hold a pleasant and intellectual conversation. These are all very basic, superficial requirements. The majority of individuals are actually conservative but it's the ones that aren't that you see waving about more often because well.. they're not.

 

Things will work out if you can sort out your availability and whether you have it in you to be kind. You'll get the same back. You appear to be very empathetic and compassionate.

[SherrySher]

Someone will tick all the boxes. You'd be surprised what women are actually out there.

 

You can be conservative, without being a prude or a church goer. There is such a thing as a kind-hearted, generous woman who has barely slept around, but still enjoys sex to the fullest. One who is also intelligent, faithful and would be an excellent mother.

Although on the more rarer side these days, there are women like this.

 

The key is to find one who is single. Unfortunately, most women like that, are already taken.

[Batya33]

I do approach women, but I rarely do it out of the blue. I remember talking to a therapist once who said I should do just that. So I did it a few times. The last time I did it, I remember the girl I approached was so scared she could barely talk. I felt like I was mugging her. I excused myself and left her alone to calm down. Other experiences weren't that bad, but didn't result in anything.

 

Don't approach women cold -approach them as part of a natural environment where mingling is expected -like while doing types of volunteer work -like volunteering backstage at a community theater -where conversation and interaction is a natural part of the work. For several years, pre-covid, I assist at the local public radio's phonathon to help fundraise. When the phones are not ringing (we take calls, we don't make calls) we chat with the people around us. I've met people in this way. I know of several marriages and long term committed partnerships that started while working on gilbert and sullivan productions for a community theater troupe. If you talk to people in that context you will only risk that kind of reaction you described if you say something offensive or inappropriate or if the person has real hangups or a disability.

 

I am hard pressed to get why you think you should require your mate to be slim if you are not. And I agree with Bluecastle that I'm not getting that you actually like women -not that you are gay or anything but you don't regard them as people you want to hang with. I liked men - I had several close platonic friendships with men and still do - I liked being around men and women -I liked people - I had my "list" but I didn't treat people as components of my list. You seem to.

 

On the weight thing -I believe genetics plays a role. My mom, my sister and I are all naturally slim. Mom never dieted and was never overweight. She also overate very very rarely and now she never does. I'm the same- I get full fast and so portion control is almost never an issue.

[boltnrun]

Honestly, I'd skip dating, if I could. I have not rejected people's suggestions, just yet. I'll think about it. The things I require in a woman are not unrealistic. Or are you telling me I won't find smart women who want children and are actually attracted to me?

 

Nope, but the other requirements regarding physical appearance and that she must have the exact same beliefs as you regarding lifestyle and family and home, added to the other things you want, are going to make finding a woman to date very difficult. For example, like you wrote earlier you could find an intelligent (to me "smart" means something else) woman who desires children and values the family home but maybe also wants to have a high-powered career. Or as you mentioned, she might have other things you desire in a wife but won't be "athletic". So in order to find the right woman some compromise is absolutely mandatory.

 

I mean, what if she finds that you have everything she is seeking but you are overweight? And she rejects everything else you have to offer based on just that one thing?

 

All relationships are about compromise (NOT 'settling' or 'giving in' or discarding your values). Two people meet and decide they like enough about the other person so they choose to overlook something that in the grand scheme of life isn't all that important.

 

There was a poster on here years ago who was kind of in a similar boat with some differences who essentially wanted a very specific type of woman and insisted he could NOT be attracted to any women who didn't meet his long list of requirements. I remember one of them was the woman could not be "flat-chested". So he was willing to reject a wonderful woman who could have been a great partner for him because her chest size was unacceptable. I don't believe you're THAT shallow. But it's important to find out through dating what is and is not a deal breaker for you. And that may mean approaching women who are not "athletic" but have a lot of other wonderful qualities. You could really be missing out if you insist on adhering to a strict list of requirements and rejecting women who don't specifically meet all of them.

 

Do you have some flexibility with your requirements? Are you willing to widen your potential dating pool? And how do you propose to find a partner who will become your wife if you "skip dating"? Or do you mean you just aren't going to try anymore?

[pudgeface]

Just some general comments - first of all, while I still think a healthy lifestyle is important, I can tell you from personal experience that being a certain body build or size is also largely genetic. If you put in the hard work you can improve your size but even with that you need to work very hard. I eat well and track my calories intake on an app. Most days I'm between 1300-1500 calories. I don't work out at the gym because I actually don't enjoy the gym and it's very expensive. But I do walk most days and in the app it's recorded I do between 6, 000 - 10, 000 steps most days. Yet I'm still overweight. But I have a male friend who hardly exercises and eats a lot of sugary foods and he's quite slim. He said if he cuts down on sugar he immediately loses a few kilograms. Yet I lose no weight at all and I don't even eat much sugar. When you see overweight people please don't just make assumptions about their lifestyle because you may be wrong. Having said that, if you're only attracted to slim or athletic women then I guess you can't help it. But in that case you should be athletic yourself. Have you seen the movie with Jack Black and Gwyneth Paltrow called "Shallow Hal"? It's about an overweight, plain man who is only chasing after hot girls, and he never gets anyone. Until he gets hypnotised by Toni Robbins and then he sees people as beautiful if they're beautiful on the inside. And then he does actually find a lovely girl, except she's overweight.

 

You were talking about dropping values. Body size is not a value. You don't seem to actually know what values means, which may be problematic in finding someone with similar values.

 

I think I was talking more about values like family, truth, justice, stuff like that. Body sizes are in a different category, and that's my own personal concept of beauty. That's not necessary immutable. The concept of feminine beauty changes in time for everyone.

[SooSad33]

You have had so many response & questions here.

Are you taking note? Getting anywhere?

 

In my observation, you are overwhelmed, yet want something so badly.

 

Often, what we want and what we get is so different. Since to get all we want is rare.

 

Are you able to 'accept' you will most likely not get all of this- hence your age and being this long of a wait?

Are you running out of patience?

 

Yes, these days it is very hard to get something we are totally happy with. ( due to our age, our expectations, our own issue's, etc).

 

I feel the best bet is to just keep going as you are. IF you meet someone decent, cool!

But proceed with caution. So often things don't work out- long term. ( due to differences, compatibility, baggage).

So, this is what you may have to realize.

 

I am on my own.. and I am fine with that. I expect nor do I want anything. .. Because of all I have experienced.

 

 

 

We keep going though, the search remains. BUT you need to try & accept all you want may not happen. And be okay with this.

[LaHermes]

I concur with Rose.

 

"You appear to be very empathetic and compassionate."

 

OP, there is "approaching" and then there is "approaching". Depends on how it is done.

 

I felt that this is what you meant OP:

 

"I think I was talking more about values like family, truth, justice,".

 

It is important to have by your side a person who has ethics.

 

And isn't this the truth, SoSad!

 

"Often, what we want and what we get is so different. Since to get all we want is rare."

[pudgeface]

Don't approach women cold -approach them as part of a natural environment where mingling is expected -like while doing types of volunteer work -like volunteering backstage at a community theater -where conversation and interaction is a natural part of the work. For several years, pre-covid, I assist at the local public radio's phonathon to help fundraise. When the phones are not ringing (we take calls, we don't make calls) we chat with the people around us. I've met people in this way. I know of several marriages and long term committed partnerships that started while working on gilbert and sullivan productions for a community theater troupe. If you talk to people in that context you will only risk that kind of reaction you described if you say something offensive or inappropriate or if the person has real hangups or a disability.

 

I am hard pressed to get why you think you should require your mate to be slim if you are not. And I agree with Bluecastle that I'm not getting that you actually like women -not that you are gay or anything but you don't regard them as people you want to hang with. I liked men - I had several close platonic friendships with men and still do - I liked being around men and women -I liked people - I had my "list" but I didn't treat people as components of my list. You seem to.

 

On the weight thing -I believe genetics plays a role. My mom, my sister and I are all naturally slim. Mom never dieted and was never overweight. She also overate very very rarely and now she never does. I'm the same- I get full fast and so portion control is almost never an issue.

 

Everyone is on me with slimness. Where I live, most women are slim, so that's not an issue. It's just a matter of personal preference, not some deal breaker. I have other deal breakers, like being flaky, or manipulative.

[pudgeface]

You have had so many response & questions here.

Are you taking note? Getting anywhere?

 

In my observation, you are overwhelmed, yet want something so badly.

 

There are a lot of useful answers here, which means this is a good forum. I'll probably come back to the thread a few times and re-read some things. Yes, I am a bit overwhelmed.

[pudgeface]

This, in a nutshell, is where my mind has gone observing this thread unspool.

 

You just don't sound particularly fond of women. Intrigued, sure, when it's a woman in an old photograph, which of course is less "person" than "idea," one you generate yourself. But the idea of actual women? It seems to trigger a lot of fears and negative assumptions, rather than the key thing—curiosity, say, or openness—required to connect, let alone sustain a connection that leads to marriage, to procreation.

 

The irony is that, all things considered, it doesn't sound like what you're looking for is all that unique. What's unique is that you want to have it without looking for it, or looking into yourself to figure out where some critical blinders may be limiting you in your search.

 

It may be I'm not too fond of people in general. I wondered about something like that myself. In movies, there is a hero who asks his love interest to marry him. And she says "you don't even know me". He says "I know enough." Happy end. But she's scared because it is the truth. My failed relationships had this pattern: 1. girl ticks some of my boxes, 2. I fall in love with her for no rational reason. 3. my mind sneaks behind my back and ticks all the other boxes, 4. I tell the girl she's awesome and the perfect match for me, 5. she tells me I don't even know her, 6. I say I know enough, 7. she says, no you don't, 8. silences are converted into distances.

[SooSad33]

4. I tell the girl she's awesome and the perfect match for me, 5. she tells me I don't even know her, 6. I say I know enough, 7. she says, no you don't, 8. silences are converted into distances.

- Ok, then learn from this.. don't say this.. especially so fast. Yeah, that can set them off- they can pull away.

They may see it as just words.. or he is too clingy, desperate.. etc.

 

Get to know someone.. let it build. Let things flow & just go with it.. to see IF it becomes something.

It all takes time.. especially if you don't know them.

[Batya33]

Everyone is on me with slimness. Where I live, most women are slim, so that's not an issue. It's just a matter of personal preference, not some deal breaker. I have other deal breakers, like being flaky, or manipulative.

 

And you are ok if she gains weight later? Are you ok if she's not ok with you being overweight since she is slim?

 

Also women who have to take fertility drugs to conceive often gain weight from the hormones.

[SherrySher]

And you are ok if she gains weight later? Are you ok if she's not ok with you being overweight since she is slim?

 

Yeah, I mean, if you want a slim, good looking woman, you'd better be in shape, slim, and a man that takes really good care of himself.

Like attracts like.

 

You're not going to get a woman who looks like that if you're over weight and not taking care of yourself. It just doesn't work like that.

[smackie9]

Whatever you are doing now, do the opposite. Like don't believe what you see in movies as hardcore fact. Keep your feelings in check. Don't "fall in love" with someone you have never dated for some time. You find someone attractive, you go out on dates and get to know them. Stop spinning those movie like fantasies...that's a bad habit you need to break. You don't go blasting that they are just perfect for you! after one date. Save that for when you are around date 7 or 8. Don't disagree with a woman if she tells you, you don't know enough about her....believe her, and pull back a bit, slow it down. It's mean you are going way too fast and she finds it upsetting, almost creepy and desperate. Have to be kool, laid back, let her set the pace.

[LaHermes]

What SoSad just said.

 

And, OP, remember:

 

"softly, softly, catchee monkey".

 

Basically, to play it carefully and gently to get your reward.

 

I don't think anyone could quarrel with this requirement of not wanting what you just said, OP

 

"like being manipulative, or being a pushover."

[pudgeface]

Do you have some flexibility with your requirements? Are you willing to widen your potential dating pool? And how do you propose to find a partner who will become your wife if you "skip dating"? Or do you mean you just aren't going to try anymore?

 

Not trying anymore is something I've done for a while. Obviously nothing happened. I'm open to dating someone who's not a blond haired amazon, but I'm totally inflexible with other things that are quite a few, like being manipulative, or being a pushover.

[Batya33]

Also I'd consider what you mean personally by the values of truth and justice - those are really broad concepts. Like, if you went to the dentist last week of December and it was a $1,000 bill would you be ok with your dentist changing the billing date to January so you could get insurance? What do you mean by justice? Family is more of a catchphrase -you value family meaning you want someone who wants a family and prioritizes family time, etc - but you say you have little time to date -do you have time to devote to a family? Or do you mean she should value family so that while you work she is home with the kids? How do you feel about prioritizing the grandparents' wishes as to how to raise your children - they are family, too. Of course you need not find all this out right away but get clear with yourself so you don't have broad idealistic concepts that even you can't explain specifically.

[pudgeface]

And you are ok if she gains weight later? Are you ok if she's not ok with you being overweight since she is slim?

 

Also women who have to take fertility drugs to conceive often gain weight from the hormones.

 

I don't know, but if it was something that can't be undone, I guess, I'd just suck it up. If something could be done, I'd help her any way I could. I know for sure that you lose weight much easier if others are supportive.

 

Also, I'm not ready to be rejected over my weight. That's why I started doing physical work and exercising. I lost some, I'm going to lose some more. I found it funny when I started getting comments from women at work. Before, I was quite invisible to them. Not only men are visual creatures.

[Wiseman2]

Ok, focus on getting healthy and getting in shape.

I'm not ready to be rejected over my weight. That's why I started doing physical work and exercising. I lost some, I'm going to lose some more.

[pudgeface]

Also I'd consider what you mean personally by the values of truth and justice - those are really broad concepts. Like, if you went to the dentist last week of December and it was a $1,000 bill would you be ok with your dentist changing the billing date to January so you could get insurance? What do you mean by justice? Family is more of a catchphrase -you value family meaning you want someone who wants a family and prioritizes family time, etc - but you say you have little time to date -do you have time to devote to a family? Or do you mean she should value family so that while you work she is home with the kids? How do you feel about prioritizing the grandparents' wishes as to how to raise your children - they are family, too. Of course you need not find all this out right away but get clear with yourself so you don't have broad idealistic concepts that even you can't explain specifically.

 

Those are a lot of questions. I'm not so much for women who are left at home raising children alone while the man is at work, providing. I'd rather find an arrangement that would maximize our time together. Otherwise, why exactly have I married?

 

Family matters most for me. I returned from America for them. I love America, it's my favorite country, and I could have had a great life there. I spend time with my folks, as much as I can afford. Now, with the virus, I can often work from their place, so that works out well.

 

Your example with the dentist is interesting. The first answer is no. The second answer is what if I needed the money for an urgent surgery? Or what if I was behind on my rent? I don't know the answer to that. I have not been in the situation. In any case, the justice and truth thing is a long discussion. Sometimes, there is an easy answer, sometimes, no answer is good. If you prioritize values way above your self interest, you might end up on a cross, or die single.

 

I will not prioritize my parents wishes about children raising. But I'll use some of their methods. What they did well, they did very well.

[pudgeface]

What SoSad just said.

 

And, OP, remember:

 

"softly, softly, catchee monkey".

 

Basically, to play it carefully and gently to get your reward.

 

I don't think anyone could quarrel with this requirement of not wanting what you just said, OP

 

"like being manipulative, or being a pushover."

 

I'll tell you a story about monkeys before leaving the thread.

 

A king wanted to marry his daughter, and he decided to let her choose among the suitors. Many princes had come, but she didn't like any. Some where too tall, others too short, some seemed too shy, others too bold. Eventually, a monkey showed up. She said "Ewww, you are so hairy." And he replied "Only because I'm a real man. Real men are hairy." The she found an issue with his long arms. "I'm the greatest of archers, of course I have long, muscular arms." Then she didn't like his crooked legs. "Those are the legs of an elite rider," he said. Eventually she gave up and married the monkey.

[SherrySher]

A king wanted to marry his daughter, and he decided to let her choose among the suitors. Many princes had come, but she didn't like any. Some where too tall, others too short, some seemed too shy, others too bold. Eventually, a monkey showed up. She said "Ewww, you are so hairy." And he replied "Only because I'm a real man. Real men are hairy." The she found an issue with his long arms. "I'm the greatest of archers, of course I have long, muscular arms." Then she didn't like his crooked legs. "Those are the legs of an elite rider," he said. Eventually she gave up and married the monkey.

 

LOL...this is why it's a fairytale.

[LaHermes]

Precisely, OP.

 

"I'd rather find an arrangement that would maximize our time together. Otherwise, why exactly have I married?

"

 

Re your story. That was one helluva convincing monkey. LOL.

 

Which brings to mind a saying:

 

"You can dress a monkey in silks, but it's still a monkey."

 

A lot of that about.

[pudgeface]

Whatever you are doing now, do the opposite. Like don't believe what you see in movies as hardcore fact. Keep your feelings in check. Don't "fall in love" with someone you have never dated for some time. You find someone attractive, you go out on dates and get to know them. Stop spinning those movie like fantasies...that's a bad habit you need to break. You don't go blasting that they are just perfect for you! after one date. Save that for when you are around date 7 or 8. Don't disagree with a woman if she tells you, you don't know enough about her....believe her, and pull back a bit, slow it down. It's mean you are going way too fast and she finds it upsetting, almost creepy and desperate. Have to be kool, laid back, let her set the pace.

 

The movies... I stopped taking relationship advice from them after my last bad breakup. But I do lose my head if someone hits the right buttons. It's really hard to do that, but when it happens, I have no clue what I come across like. In fact, I don't think I'm rational at all then.