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WE are well aware of that Lora.

 

"it's my husband's fault. He is responsible for our marriage not her."

 

 

Anyhow that's all beside the point.

 

Are you going to get down to preparing a plan, even in outline? Get your plan down in writing, with a clear head. Start now. Things will remain blurry unless you start to clarify exactly what you want to do. Consult with an objective third party on the details of your plan.

 

On the other hand, if you have no intention of ending this untenable situation (for whatever reason, be it family shock/horror, what will people say and all the rest) then there is little more to say, is there?

 

So, I ask again, are you going to set the practical aspects in motion?

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No we didn't agree on him not seeing his friends as he did. We're having this friend issue eversince the baby came. And I would never tell him to stop seeing his friends but not 3 to 4 times a day. No

WE are well aware of that Lora.

 

"it's my husband's fault. He is responsible for our marriage not her."

 

 

Anyhow that's all beside the point.

 

Are you going to get down to preparing a plan, even in outline? Get your plan down in writing, with a clear head. Start now. Things will remain blurry unless you start to clarify exactly what you want to do. Consult with an objective third party on the details of your plan.

 

On the other hand, if you have no intention of ending this untenable situation (for whatever reason, be it family shock/horror, what will people say and all the rest) then there is little more to say, is there?

 

So, I ask again, are you going to set the practical aspects in motion?

 

I don't know maybe I should give my marriage one last chance, for the sake of my son and the time we spent together.

There were alot of great moments eventhough these past few months were bad.

I think our newborn baby caught us unprepared it came early and it is twice as hard raising a premature baby.

I stayed in the hospital for 17 days; 4 of those days were in the intensive care unit. That took a toll on both of us I think.

 

It's supposed to be in sickness and in health and in hard times too. I don't think I should give up just yet.

 

Also he is used to going out often with his friends during his free time (and he has very little of it); Eversince the baby came he had to stay at home more during his free time when I had to take a shower or when I went to the market or to my parents house, he had to stay and watch the baby and he would get mad because he had to give up his fun and relaxing time with his friends and then he would get mean because he works alot.

 

I'm thinking about making a list and giving it to him. Tell him if he can fufill all of those things I am willing to continue with him. And if he breaks any of these then it's definitely over.

 

1.Never go out with this nurse again keep your distance and stay professional towards her.

This goes for all of your female colleagues.

 

2.Listen and pay attention more of the things I say.

 

2.Appreciate what I do around the house and the baby and don't make stupid unappreciative comments.

 

3.Prove you want to spent more time with me because you enjoy to not because you have to.

 

4.Be more supportive of the hardships I endure.

 

5.Respect me and our marriage.

Edited by Loralora
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I'm thinking the communication is blocked and while these points are good to visualize for yourself, it also silences what he might want (which may very well be, conscious or subconscious, to leave the marriage or continue having inappropriate contact with female friends while married). I think you're hurting yourself more if you're not asking him what he wants to do. The end goal is to stop the hurt, regardless of whatever he or you do. There's that block in listening to each other or accepting what really is going on and what he wants as well.

 

Is there a way you can communicate your asks and also invite him to talk about what he wants or sees in the marriage also?

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I'm thinking the communication is blocked and while these points are good to visualize for yourself, it also silences what he might want (which may very well be, conscious or subconscious, to leave the marriage or continue having inappropriate contact with female friends while married). I think you're hurting yourself more if you're not asking him what he wants to do. The end goal is to stop the hurt, regardless of whatever he or you do. There's that block in listening to each other or accepting what really is going on and what he wants as well.

 

Is there a way you can communicate your asks and also invite him to talk about what he wants or sees in the marriage also?

 

Good point I think I should also ask him what he wants from me and our marriage.

 

I'll tell him this list is what I want from you, now you need to tell me what you want from me and I'll tell you if I can do that or not.

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How immature is that, never mind how undignified. You are a professional woman of thirty-one!

 

Why is it immature and undignified? This woman is infringing on her rights as someone's wife. She has every right to let this woman know that she's not happy about it.

 

We're not talking about a full on cat fight, Hermes, it's only letting this woman know that it's not right that she is trying to get onto her husband...and you know what? Most woman would feel exactly the same.

 

You have a right to have a voice Lora, you have a right to be hurt and upset and you have a right to say so!

Don't let anyone silence or shame you for how you feel.

 

This woman has ran after your husband more than once now, that's not okay. If your husband isn't willing to say something, then it's not wrong to let her know you don't appreciate it.

After all, it is YOUR husband and your life. You don't have to sit back and watch someone else ruin it.

 

I also feel that if your husband is willing to work through this with you, that it might be a good thing to give things another chance.

However, you need to let him know what you'll be okay with and what you won't be. Make it very specific so he knows what lines not to cross.

If he loves you like he says he does and if he is willing to be a faithful husband, it shouldn't be an issue to stay away from her.

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It's surprising they don't have classes, support groups for new parents/fathers/mothers etc at the hospital. Fathers need to learn to adjust as well as mothers. Weird you two do not do that. Or marriage counselling.

 

If you want to save your marriage see a therapist. Lists never work. It will generate even more resentment, conflict and of course looks like a power struggle and something written from a place of anger and contempt and resentment. Pretty much the stuff that predicts divorce.

 

You need outside support from professionals. Couch sleeping, rings taken off, "forbidding coffee" (he'll make you out as a shrew to his colleagues, why not just push him into her arms? ), lists etc. all exacerbate your problems. Not only that, they are passive and easily ignored.

 

Your list sounds more like the Gestapo than a wife who needs more help with a newborn and other stressors..

Eversince the baby came he had to stay at home more during his free time when I had to take a shower or when I went to the market or to my parents house, he had to stay and watch the baby and he would get mad because he had to give up his fun and relaxing time with his friends and then he would get mean because he works alot.
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It's surprising they don't have classes, support groups for new parents/fathers/mothers etc at the hospital. Fathers need to learn to adjust as well as mothers. Weird you two do not do that. Or marriage counselling.

 

If you want to save your marriage see a therapist. Lists never work. It will generate even more resentment, conflict and of course looks like a power struggle and something written from a place of anger and contempt and resentment. Pretty much the stuff that predicts divorce.

 

You need outside support from professionals. Couch sleeping, rings taken off, "forbidding coffee" (he'll make you out as a shrew to his colleagues, why not just push him into her arms? ), lists etc. all exacerbate your problems. Not only that, they are passive and easily ignored.

 

Your list sounds more like the Gestapo than a wife who needs more help with a newborn and other stressors..

 

Neither of us have the time to go to a therapist right now and no there aren't many options here.

 

I forgot to mention four days ago, (right after I found out he went out with the nurse again )when my mom got the result of the biopsi, I sent it to an Oncologist (colleague of ours) that we are both friends with on facebook.

Well he happens to be very cute and young (much cutter than this nurse).

 

I also have to confess that I did it out of spite. Because I knew my mom had her own Oncologyst that my dad has found for her. Well the Oncologist was very nice and responded very well. He even invited me to take my mom to his private practice and told me what time he'll be there.

I wasn't really going to go. I told him maybe my dad can bring her because I have a two month old son and It's very hard to get out of the house. And he was like ok no problem.

 

I told my husband that I sent it to him and he was trying to be cool about it. I could see it was bothering him.

He was like "well what did he say when you contacted him" he was really curious about what we talked about.

 

And I was like "hey you know what, maybe I'll have coffee with him and talk about my mothers situation, will that bother you"? And he was like "not at all". I could see that was a lie.

 

And then I said "At least I'll have a reason to go out with him", "you did it just for fun".

I wasn't really going to have coffee with him.

He's a hypocrite. He likes to do it but he doesn't like it when I do it (eventhough I never did it).

 

And out of anger I told him whatever you will do, I will do it too from now on. I didn't mean it allthough I think he thinks I did. Then I added: "but I'm not a w*ore, I'll just have to force myself to be one." He probably knows I said it out of anger.

 

 

Anyway... I already sent him the list today. He's at work in ths 24h shift. He responded with an "okay" meaning he will try to fufill it. Tomorrow we'll talk more thoroughly about it and maybe he'll give me his list. Maybe we can clarify everything that is bothering us. I told him he can make a list also.

Edited by Loralora
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You two have been through a lot. Last time you wrote about him, he seemed so in love with you. Do you feel that this has changed over the years?

 

I don't think he doesn't love me. I think he works too much and has too much stress at work and this baby made everything even more stressful. He's in vascular surgery it's alot.

 

I don't think he's handeling the stress well and also I think he likes attention from women.

 

He has changed a little. Back then he wasn't this stressed out. He would chose his words much more carefuly.

 

I don't think he is a bad person he just has some bad habits that I'm starting to get really tired of because my life has become more stressful also.

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I fully endorse Wiseman here:

 

"It's surprising they don't have classes, support groups for new parents/fathers/mothers etc at the hospital. Fathers need to learn to adjust as well as mothers. Weird you two do not do that. Or marriage counselling.

 

If you want to save your marriage see a therapist. Lists never work. It will generate even more resentment, conflict and of course looks like a power struggle and something written from a place of anger and contempt and resentment. Pretty much the stuff that predicts divorce.

 

You need outside support from professionals. Couch sleeping, rings taken off, "forbidding coffee" (he'll make you out as a shrew to his colleagues, why not just push him into her arms? ), lists etc. all exacerbate your problems. Not only that, they are passive and easily ignored.

"

 

OP, one can always make time to see a counsellor. Another matter entirely is that you don't wish to see one.

 

Playing word games won't work Lora.

 

"I also have to confess that I did it out of spite."

 

"Then I added: "but I'm not a w*ore, I'll just have to force myself to be one." He probably knows I said it out of anger.

"

 

Reading this back to yourself how does this sound, OP?

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Couch sleeping, rings taken off, "forbidding coffee" (he'll make you out as a shrew to his colleagues, why not just push him into her arms?

 

I have to agree with this. I am married too, and I don't think that punishing your husband, or giving him the silent treatment, etc, is the right thing to do.

All it does is cause resentment, more distance between you, more upset and will give him more reasons to behave badly.

 

You should be talking to him, (not accusing mind you, not yelling, and not trying to place blame)...but talking like he's your friend, because that's a really important factor in marriage that lots lose sight of. This should be not only your love, but your friend. If things aren't going as you had hoped, talk to him, let him hear your thoughts, worries, feelings and hear his too with an open mind.

If the same kinds of problems keep coming up. suggest marriage counselling and hopefully both of you will agree to go. It truly can do so much good.

 

If he is willing to keep trying, then try to get on the same side. I know you're hurting Lora, and you have a right to be, but if he is willing to keep trying, then for your sake, your marriages sake and for your child's sake, see if you can work through this together.

 

I remember the posts you had years back, there was a huge amount of love and passion between you two, and I believe it still exists.

Your marriage deserves another try and for you both to start not just being husband and wife, but being friends again.

You're both going through stress, but I know you both can give one another the love and support you both need and yearn for.

I really do hope that you both try to turn things around for the better.

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Reading this back to yourself how does this sound, OP?

 

Not good. It was my one of my lowest moments. I'm not that sorry though because he's taken this nurse thing too far in a weak moment of my life he should of been more supportive and here for me not having coffee with forbiden nurses.

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You made me smile Lora.

 

"forbidden nurses"

 

And yet the more forbidden something is the more fascinating it becomes.

 

I agree that your husband should be more supportive and there for you, but I fear that your methods (much as Wiseman pointed out) are not going to work.

 

I also think that lists and threats aren't going to work. Marriages don't operate like that. Where the foundation was shaky to begin with the outlook is generally not good.

 

So, as I mentioned before, it is time to look at the practicalities, to write out a plan (writing stuff down helps a lot as it clears the mind), and no more sniping.

 

He can say "yes" to everything you ask or insist upon, but IMO he will continue as he has always done.

 

Lambert asked a shrewd question a few days back:

 

"Do you have other reasons to think he is not trust worthy? that is different than coffee on a work break. you know?"

 

Remember this Lora?

 

"my mom and dad don't get along at all and eventhough they don't get along AT ALL they still stay together. I've told them they should just get a divorce but they never go there. They probably want to but do to cultural reasons and gossip they don't.."

 

So what advice would you give yourself?

Edited by LaHermes
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You made me smile Lora.

 

"forbidden nurses"

 

And yet the more forbidden something is the more fascinating it becomes.

 

I also think that lists and threats aren't going to work. Marriages don't operate like that. Where the foundation was shaky to begin with the outlook is generally not good.

 

Lambert asked a shrewd question a few days back:

 

"Do you have other reasons to think he is not trust worthy? that is different than coffee on a work break. you know?"

 

Well if he is that facinated with her then he should continue but he will be stuck with her and lose me forever. If he is that stupid then he should continue.

In the end I can't make him stop if he doesn't want to stop. He'll go his way and I'll go my way.

 

The reason I threat and make lists is that there is no other way left, I tried saying it in a soft calm manner it didn't work.

 

He has overlyfriended other female coallegues in the past, helped them more than he needed to. Like writing motivational letters for one. This is one other reason.

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Well focusing on this is like your house burning down and instead of responding and acting to address it, you worry about how much toilet paper you have. I mean if a patient comes in in cardiac arrest would you just stand there and worry about an ingrown toenail rather than initiate life support?

 

This nurse jealousy thing is not the real stress of a dismissive partner and multiple other stressors. You seem more caught up in that he's "not allowed" to have coffee with her than the fact that your marriage is unhappy and hanging by a thread. Who knows, maybe it's easier to blame that/her for all the stress?

 

Try to step back and care for yourself, your infant and your mother.

 

Wise man gave medical excamples here. I understand that he is trying to tell me that I should focus on more imporant things going on in my life and not on this.

 

But the problem is that what my husband did here is: Instead of focusing on a patient with a cardiac arrest he went and treated a soar throat while leaving the cardiac arrest patient to die (that being me).

It doesn't just hurt me that he did it again; but he did it in the worst possible time. It shows me how unthoughful he was. And it makes me second guess some of his feelings towards me.

 

If I saw someone I love hurting. I wouldn't think of going out with nurses I know that person hates. All I would think about is how to make the person I love feel better.

Edited by Loralora
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I have to agree with this. I am married too, and I don't think that punishing your husband, or giving him the silent treatment, etc, is the right thing to do.

All it does is cause resentment, more distance between you, more upset and will give him more reasons to behave badly.

 

You should be talking to him, (not accusing mind you, not yelling, and not trying to place blame)...but talking like he's your friend, because that's a really important factor in marriage that lots lose sight of. This should be not only your love, but your friend. If things aren't going as you had hoped, talk to him, let him hear your thoughts, worries, feelings and hear his too with an open mind.

If the same kinds of problems keep coming up. suggest marriage counselling and hopefully both of you will agree to go. It truly can do so much good.

 

If he is willing to keep trying, then try to get on the same side. I know you're hurting Lora, and you have a right to be, but if he is willing to keep trying, then for your sake, your marriages sake and for your child's sake, see if you can work through this together.

 

I remember the posts you had years back, there was a huge amount of love and passion between you two, and I believe it still exists.

Your marriage deserves another try and for you both to start not just being husband and wife, but being friends again.

You're both going through stress, but I know you both can give one another the love and support you both need and yearn for.

I really do hope that you both try to turn things around for the better.

 

Even friends fight sometimes.

 

I will sincerely try it one last time. This time in a nicer and calmer way.

 

If he is truly willing to keep trying, I will give him one last chance.

 

Thank you everyone for your help. You all did help me.

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Back in 2016 Reinvent responded to you with this:

 

"Something I have learned the hard way -

It's the very first thing that causes you to question a relationship - ends up being the very thing that ruins it in the end.

It doesn't matter if it's 2 months or 2 years."

 

You didn't trust him then either. And you don't trust him now.

 

And as you just said:

 

"He has overlyfriended other female coallegues in the past, helped them more than he needed to. Like writing motivational letters for one. This is one other reason."

 

This lack of trust has been an ongoing theme over these past few years.

 

Look, even if it ceases being the "forbidden nurses" it will be someone else.

 

He is an adult, Lora. Not a schoolboy of ten to whom you can say: "If you keep trying to be a good boy I'll give you another chance."

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Remember this Lora?

 

"my mom and dad don't get along at all and eventhough they don't get along AT ALL they still stay together. I've told them they should just get a divorce but they never go there. They probably want to but do to cultural reasons and gossip they don't.."

 

So what advice would you give yourself?

 

Trust me this wouldn't stop me. Especially since I grew up seeing their toxic relationship.

 

I still think we can fix it. My mom's and dad's situation is completely different they fight like all the time for 30 years.

 

My husband and I don't fight all the time months go by when things are good that we don't fight. If it ever came as close as to our marriage being like my parent's I would not think for one second and get a divorce. It isn't near the same. They are so used to fighting that now it has become the Norm. We are surprised when we see them get along.

 

We have been fighting only since the baby came and not all the time.

 

I will never let it get to that level. Also their generation was different ours is different. I have plenty of divorced friends now. Things are starting to change.

 

We'll see how things go.

He should consider himself lucky I'm willing to give it one more chance.

Edited by Loralora
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So, so so many chances, Lora.

 

It isn't about the "fighting". A quarrel is just that, a quarrel. This is not the issue here. It is the total lack of trust since the outset from way back when you first met him. "forbidden women" then, "forbidden women" now. Another chance?

So what will you do? Patrol the corridors of the hospital to make sure he isn't still hanging around with these nurses/cleaning staff/admins/ etc.?

 

A poster responded this to you in 2018:

 

"Then you've already made up your mind to go ahead with your marriage.

 

Can I ask you a question? Why did you start this topic? If you were only going to do what you wanted anyway, why did you allow all of us to take time out of our busy lives to provide you with all this advice? I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate this.

 

You have an answer for every post. People have spent a lot of energy giving you advice, and you've rejected every single thought.

 

Marry him. Live a lifetime of checking his phone, of jumping every time the phone rings. of being called "psycho" and worse."

 

He doesn't respect you, OP, never did.

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So, so so many chances, Lora.

 

It isn't about the "fighting". A quarrel is just that, a quarrel. This is not the issue here. It is the total lack of trust since the outset from way back when you first met him. "forbidden women" then, "forbidden women" now. Another chance?

So what will you do? Patrol the corridors of the hospital to make sure he isn't still hanging around with these nurses/cleaning staff/admins/ etc.?

 

A poster responded this to you in 2018:

 

"Then you've already made up your mind to go ahead with your marriage.

 

Can I ask you a question? Why did you start this topic? If you were only going to do what you wanted anyway, why did you allow all of us to take time out of our busy lives to provide you with all this advice? I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate this.

 

You have an answer for every post. People have spent a lot of energy giving you advice, and you've rejected every single thought.

 

Marry him. Live a lifetime of checking his phone, of jumping every time the phone rings. of being called "psycho" and worse."

 

He doesn't respect you, OP, never did.

 

Eversince those things happend years passed and we didn't have the same problem unitl now.

 

That is the reason I stayed and hopped.

 

No I will not do any patroling (that's crazy). Maybe phone checking yes until I regain trust.

 

I told him I should be able to look at your phone and not find anything shady.

I told him you can look at mine anytime you want to.

 

People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

 

If any repeated behaviour catches my attention then we are done. He knows..it's up to him.

 

If everyone focused only on the problems no couple would stay married.

 

It was never that big of an incident/reason as to push me to a split or divorce. But repeated little incidents make you tired and that is where I am at right now.

 

If he continues to do so with nurses or other women then he truly does not respect me. I always thought he did.

 

I'm in no hurry to get e divorce. You can always get a divorce that is the easiest thing to do. Making things work again that is the hardest(if it's possible). But this trying to make things work has a limit and I am growing very impatient.

 

It would have been easier to leave when we were dating but I always hopped and trusted that things will get better. Now it's much harder but not unduable. I just don't want to rush it; so I don't have any regrets in the future.

 

I told him: if you think your behaviour is okay and I'm wrong. He often says I'm to conservative.

I told him if you can't change your ways and you think everything you do is okay then we are truly not compatible and you should find someone more liberal like yourself.

 

The problem is (at least I think it is) that he thinks the same as I do and If I would do what he did it would bother him too.

Edited by Loralora
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Sounds like a war, not a marriage. You don't have time for therapists because you waste all your time on kindergarten revenge schemes and making lists.

 

As expected he just respond to that silly list with "ok", probably while having coffee with the nurse and rolling his eyes.

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