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Can good friendship ever become more?


SonicHighway
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I’m glad to hear you’re giving the apps a try. There’s a Wild West component to all that, no doubt, but be patient and try not to take little things (few matches, short chats) personally. That’s the universal experience of dating—on screens and off—but it’s also the universal experience that leads people to meet new people.

 

All you have to do is look around to see that all sorts of people connect, at all sorts of different junctures in their lives. No boats are ever really missed, in short. That’s just a story people tell themselves to try to find comfort on a boat that isn’t quite floating in the manner they’d like.

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I'll probably still have feelings. And if I have those feelings for her, I don't anticipate being able to have a successful relationship of my own.

 

Again, this is a choice.

 

I feel sad that you have essentially given yourself a life sentence of dedication to this woman before half your life is even over. And that you've decided you don't want to even try to have your own happiness.

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I’m glad to hear you’re giving the apps a try. There’s a Wild West component to all that, no doubt, but be patient and try not to take little things (few matches, short chats) personally. That’s the universal experience of dating—on screens and off—but it’s also the universal experience that leads people to meet new people.

 

All you have to do is look around to see that all sorts of people connect, at all sorts of different junctures in their lives. No boats are ever really missed, in short. That’s just a story people tell themselves to try to find comfort on a boat that isn’t quite floating in the manner they’d like.

 

Yeah, it just doesn't feel like it matters, though. I've been doing that cycle for years, and it's never led to anything with anyone.

 

Again, this is a choice.

 

I feel sad that you have essentially given yourself a life sentence of dedication to this woman before half your life is even over. And that you've decided you don't want to even try to have your own happiness.

 

She means a lot to me. Romantic feelings or not, no one has ever been as important to me as she is. If I hadn't met her, I'd be in a worse place than I am now. Trading off other things is probably worth it so that I may retain the best friend I've ever had.

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It seems, at least for the time being that this cycle serves something you want served. Be it talking about your friend or about dating, the theme is consistent: doom and gloom.

 

There are other ways to navigate things—and, who knows, maybe this juncture in your life will one day push you to change course, just a bit, to find comfort in a different mode of thinking once something else inside you demands to be served.

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I mean, what would be the other way to navigate things? The only other option is to end the friendship, which I simply will not do. I'm trying to find ways to get over my feelings as is, but it's incredibly difficult. If I can ever get over them fully, then cool. But I'm not sure that's going to happen.

 

I’m not sure there is much more for me to add, but having been in your situation before, you won’t get over your feelings while being this close to her.

 

I really do suggest some sort of therapy, you can’t put your life’s happiness on to one person. It’s not fair on you and it’s not fair on them.

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I’m not sure there is much more for me to add, but having been in your situation before, you won’t get over your feelings while being this close to her.

 

I really do suggest some sort of therapy, you can’t put your life’s happiness on to one person. It’s not fair on you and it’s not fair on them.

 

Isn't it only unfair to them if I'm putting some kind of expectation on them? The only expectations I have for her are to keep being her, and for her to be happy. Beyond that, it's only "unfair" to me, but I can be okay with that.

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Isn't it only unfair to them if I'm putting some kind of expectation on them? The only expectations I have for her are to keep being her, and for her to be happy. Beyond that, it's only "unfair" to me, but I can be okay with that.

 

Yes but if you are in a dynamic like that a healthy person won't be happy with someone who is behaving in a way that is unfair to him - for one thing it's a turn off- even from a platonic friendship -to be with someone who is putting themselves so low - lower than second place -just to be around someone else. It's an icky feeling to be around a martyr.

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Yes but if you are in a dynamic like that a healthy person won't be happy with someone who is behaving in a way that is unfair to him - for one thing it's a turn off- even from a platonic friendship -to be with someone who is putting themselves so low - lower than second place -just to be around someone else. It's an icky feeling to be around a martyr.

 

Martyring is really only a thing if you try to do it, though, like if you actively try to make the other person feel bad about things. As long as I don't try to make her feel like I'm "doing something for her that she should be grateful for", I don't really see the issue.

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Would you finally walk away and pursue your own relationship if she marries and has a family and no longer spends time with you or contacts you?

 

I'm trying to figure out what would motivate you to finally want to pursue someone you can actually be with.

 

I mean, if she cuts me out of her life, well, I wouldn't have to "walk away" because there'd be nothing to walk away from if she already decided it as such.

 

It's not that I don't "want" to pursue someone I could be with. But I've never found anyone to pursue in the past, and I think that sometimes, when life gives you lemons...

 

I'm starting to rethink the idea that my own "love story" needs to contain romantic love. Yes, that would've been nice. But maybe everyone's "love story" is different, and maybe mine isn't to FALL in love with someone, but to have the best friend I could've asked for. "Romantic/ sexual" love isn't the only type of love, after all.

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Martyring is really only a thing if you try to do it, though, like if you actively try to make the other person feel bad about things. As long as I don't try to make her feel like I'm "doing something for her that she should be grateful for", I don't really see the issue.

 

Well it seems you have come to a decision OP. I must admit it’s hard to see you take this path, having gone through the same thing.

 

All the best to you, take care and stay safe.

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Martyring is really only a thing if you try to do it, though, like if you actively try to make the other person feel bad about things. As long as I don't try to make her feel like I'm "doing something for her that she should be grateful for", I don't really see the issue.

 

Oh no - any healthy person in a close friendship would know 100% about the imbalance and a healthy person would find that imbalance very uncomfortable -it doesn't need to be action on your part - just knowledge on her part, and the vibe. I wouldn't want to be in an imbalanced friendship. Like for example maybe you've responded to this but are you ok with her giving you details about her romantic life, her romantic pursuits, the dates she goes on? That is what friends talk about. You can try to hide your romantic feelings for her but she will sense it, she will know, and she will either love the flattery of it, the ego boost of it (which would tell me she lacks integrity) or she will be very concerned about leading you on and either distance herself and keep you at arm's length or lose respect for your choice to listen to all her dating stories while having these feelings.

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Oh no - any healthy person in a close friendship would know 100% about the imbalance and a healthy person would find that imbalance very uncomfortable -it doesn't need to be action on your part - just knowledge on her part, and the vibe. I wouldn't want to be in an imbalanced friendship. Like for example maybe you've responded to this but are you ok with her giving you details about her romantic life, her romantic pursuits, the dates she goes on? That is what friends talk about. You can try to hide your romantic feelings for her but she will sense it, she will know, and she will either love the flattery of it, the ego boost of it (which would tell me she lacks integrity) or she will be very concerned about leading you on and either distance herself and keep you at arm's length or lose respect for your choice to listen to all her dating stories while having these feelings.

 

I don't particularly enjoy hearing about those things, no, but I haven't figured out how to politely sidestep those discussions yet. Perhaps I will eventually find a way.

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Well it seems you have come to a decision OP. I must admit it’s hard to see you take this path, having gone through the same thing.

 

All the best to you, take care and stay safe.

 

Thanks. It's certainly going to be very challenging, on a personal level. But I suppose all I need to do is keep in mind that the only thing that matters is seeing my friend be happy.

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Thanks. It's certainly going to be very challenging, on a personal level. But I suppose all I need to do is keep in mind that the only thing that matters is seeing my friend be happy.

 

It's also sad that you think her happiness is all that matters.

 

What about yours?

 

I presume you'll say her happiness makes you happy.

 

I hope you change your mind at some point and decide to stop making this ONE woman the entire focus of your life.

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It's also sad that you think her happiness is all that matters.

 

What about yours?

 

I presume you'll say her happiness makes you happy.

 

I hope you change your mind at some point and decide to stop making this ONE woman the entire focus of your life.

 

Well, she's just that important to me. To be fair, she really changed my life by coming along into it. While I wouldn't say that my entire life revolves completely around her, it's just, there's nothing I wouldn't do for her. She's the most important person in my life.

 

I would say that her happiness makes me happy, yes. The thing is, sometimes I think we have to base our happiness on what's realistic for us. I feel like I've seen enough to know that it's not realistic to find "love" for myself, but it is realistic to be able to be there for my best friend for life.

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The thing is, too, while it may not be "romantic", I believe there's some strong sense of attachment that she has to me, as well. Actually, she told me something during our hangout that I didn't know, and it recontextualized an event from our past.

 

So, a few years ago, when I hadn't yet met her ex, I was trying to get her into this band I liked, and I was hoping she'd get him into it, because they were going to be playing a concert in our town soon, and I really wanted to go, but wanted to go with people. At the time, she told me they both got super into the band, and I remember her specifically saying that he really wanted to go to the concert. We even had to pay double price for all our tickets because we had to buy them scalped. I felt like we had a great time, though in the weeks and months that followed, I noticed he didn't seem to share as much enthusiasm. But, I didn't think anything of it, because he and I were still becoming friends, and I just wrote it off as awkwardness.

 

I don't know if she realizes that she never told me this before, but when we were last hanging out, she mentioned that he really didn't care for the band, and really didn't want to go to the concert at all. He was apparently a bit begrudging about the whole thing.

 

Which, that begs the question to me, why did she do all of that just for my sake? She really didn't have to. I mean, I'm glad I had that experience, but I would've understood if it hadn't worked out that way. Why spend hundreds of dollars and drag a begrudging boyfriend along just to do something nice for me?

 

So, as much as I go to bat for her, it's things like that that make me feel confident that she cares for me a great deal, too, even if it's not in a romantic way. I mean, if it were the other way around, if it were me having to drag a begrudging girlfriend to do something like that with some female friend of mine, I wouldn't have done that unless that friend was super important.

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The thing is, too, while it may not be "romantic", I believe there's some strong sense of attachment that she has to me, as well. Actually, she told me something during our hangout that I didn't know, and it recontextualized an event from our past.

 

So, a few years ago, when I hadn't yet met her ex, I was trying to get her into this band I liked, and I was hoping she'd get him into it, because they were going to be playing a concert in our town soon, and I really wanted to go, but wanted to go with people. At the time, she told me they both got super into the band, and I remember her specifically saying that he really wanted to go to the concert. We even had to pay double price for all our tickets because we had to buy them scalped. I felt like we had a great time, though in the weeks and months that followed, I noticed he didn't seem to share as much enthusiasm. But, I didn't think anything of it, because he and I were still becoming friends, and I just wrote it off as awkwardness.

 

I don't know if she realizes that she never told me this before, but when we were last hanging out, she mentioned that he really didn't care for the band, and really didn't want to go to the concert at all. He was apparently a bit begrudging about the whole thing.

 

Which, that begs the question to me, why did she do all of that just for my sake? She really didn't have to. I mean, I'm glad I had that experience, but I would've understood if it hadn't worked out that way. Why spend hundreds of dollars and drag a begrudging boyfriend along just to do something nice for me?

 

So, as much as I go to bat for her, it's things like that that make me feel confident that she cares for me a great deal, too, even if it's not in a romantic way. I mean, if it were the other way around, if it were me having to drag a begrudging girlfriend to do something like that with some female friend of mine, I wouldn't have done that unless that friend was super important.

 

I think you're making a ton of assumptions from your extremely biased point of view. And ask yourself why someone who doesn't reciprocate your romantic feelings is going to be the most important person in your life?

If your mindset is it's not realistic for you to find love for yourself, then you're treating yourself as a second class citizen based on a negative mindset. And if it's not realistic for you to find a romantic partner and you really accepted that - your romantic feelings for her would have faded a really long time ago -because if you accepted it from a positive perspective those feelings might exist on the periphery but you wouldn't pay attention to them in your mind since you would have a positive acceptance of not being someone suited for a romantic relationship.

 

Here's an example - I wanted more than one child for myself when I was younger. I always imagined I would have more than one child - likely, two. But time passed and it seemed unlikely I would even have one biological child -especially since I wouldn't do that without a stable long term committed relationship -either married or almost married. When I met my person, my future husband, and when we started trying to conceive I 100% accepted -from a positive perspective - that I would be so blessed to have one child. And, I did and do feel blessed. In fact I am bombarded with messages and posts and comments regularly about how sad it is to have "only one child", about how awesome it is to have more than one child, about plans to have more than one child, about pregnancies to add to the family. Do I ever feel a twinge - I mean sure once in a great while -a fleeting twinge. I am so happy we have one. I am so happy we didn't have more than one. From a positive perspective. So is my husband. And that's the difference -I accepted that realistically, unless we wanted to adopt or do surrogacy, we were one and done. And I accepted AND felt really good about our blessings and our situation.

 

When you can honestly tell yourself - the reality is I'm not suited to find a loving, committed relationship and I feel good and positive about that - then I would be more on board with you interacting with this woman as a close friend. More on board. Because then if you were romantically attracted to her that would be like someone who accepts they can never eat cake again being tempted by cake every once in awhile - but if you positively accepted that you no longer had the goal of love/commitment then this person sharing her happiness with you when she finds love would probably not impede the relationship.

 

The fact that you're questioning all her motives and totally overthinking this/overanalyzing tells me you're not at all in that place. That's not fair to either of you. She probably does care for you a great deal and when she finds her person -even if she just finds a casual boyfriend - her caring actions are going to be far more focused on her romantic partner than you especially if she senses you're attracted to her -because that would risk her romantic relationship. Super important pales in comparison to most romantic relationships where the choice is the relationship or a close friend who has romantic feelings for you -no one wants to risk a romantic relationship or play with fire in that instance.

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I feel for you, I really do. Being in a state of limbo with someone you have romantic feelings for is tough.

 

My perception of your mind-set right now is "I want her in my life in any way, shape, or form, even if it means watching her fall in love with someone else" and while that may be feasible in this very moment, I think you are kidding yourself that this is a long-term solution. Based on your replies you seem very adverse to telling her how you feel and seeing if she feels the same way, and I assume it's because you are extremely scared of her response. But this situation will only get worse for both of you if you are constantly trying to bury your feelings so you can remain her friend - there will be a lot of resentment and jealousy and hurt and the same person that is breaking your heart is going to be the same person you will want to turn to for support. Instead of making comments about NOT dating (“aren’t you glad you know I have no chance with you”)that come across as passive-aggressive fishing attempts to see if she will bite, why not just put out there how you feel? Yes, she may reject you and that will change the friendship dramatically, but I don’t think you realize that the friendship is going to change either way due to the feelings you have developed.

 

I get that you are digging your heels in and feel determined to remain best friends and put on a happy façade for this person regardless of what happens, but you may not be able to control the situation if/when she does meet someone she wants to pursue romantically. Her investment in your friendship may change, which sometimes happens when one person in that friendship becomes serious with another person. My opinion (and this is strictly my opinion) is that if you continue down this path of keeping your feelings secret/buried, this situation will not only end but also not end well.

 

If you do choose to tell her, I truly hope it works out for you.

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The fact that you're questioning all her motives and totally overthinking this/overanalyzing tells me you're not at all in that place. That's not fair to either of you. She probably does care for you a great deal and when she finds her person -even if she just finds a casual boyfriend - her caring actions are going to be far more focused on her romantic partner than you especially if she senses you're attracted to her -because that would risk her romantic relationship. Super important pales in comparison to most romantic relationships where the choice is the relationship or a close friend who has romantic feelings for you -no one wants to risk a romantic relationship or play with fire in that instance.

 

Maybe, but I WANT to be in that place. It's just difficult getting there. I want to believe in our friendship, and believe in us. I know she'll likely prioritize her next boyfriend when they're in their "honeymoon phase", but I know she sees me in her life long term, too. Like I said, I just want to believe in us. But unfortunately, it's not a switch I can change over that quickly.

 

I feel for you, I really do. Being in a state of limbo with someone you have romantic feelings for is tough.

 

My perception of your mind-set right now is "I want her in my life in any way, shape, or form, even if it means watching her fall in love with someone else" and while that may be feasible in this very moment, I think you are kidding yourself that this is a long-term solution. Based on your replies you seem very adverse to telling her how you feel and seeing if she feels the same way, and I assume it's because you are extremely scared of her response. But this situation will only get worse for both of you if you are constantly trying to bury your feelings so you can remain her friend - there will be a lot of resentment and jealousy and hurt and the same person that is breaking your heart is going to be the same person you will want to turn to for support. Instead of making comments about NOT dating (“aren’t you glad you know I have no chance with you”)that come across as passive-aggressive fishing attempts to see if she will bite, why not just put out there how you feel? Yes, she may reject you and that will change the friendship dramatically, but I don’t think you realize that the friendship is going to change either way due to the feelings you have developed.

 

I get that you are digging your heels in and feel determined to remain best friends and put on a happy façade for this person regardless of what happens, but you may not be able to control the situation if/when she does meet someone she wants to pursue romantically. Her investment in your friendship may change, which sometimes happens when one person in that friendship becomes serious with another person. My opinion (and this is strictly my opinion) is that if you continue down this path of keeping your feelings secret/buried, this situation will not only end but also not end well.

 

If you do choose to tell her, I truly hope it works out for you.

 

Yeah, I mean... I'm only "scared" of the response, because I already know what it would be, and I'm more scared by whether we could work through it and remain friends after. Like I said above, I really do want to believe in us. I want to believe that we can work through anything. But what if I'm wrong?

 

Keeping her in my life at all costs is pretty accurate, I'd say. And yeah, that would mean having to reconcile everything I'll be giving up and putting aside to make sure the friendship can exist. While I'm not there yet, I'm hoping that maybe I can get to that point.

 

It occurs to me right now that I wonder if I could have a conversation with her about whether our friendship has an "expiration date" due to the general difficulties of male/ female friendships, without having to go into confessing my feelings.

 

What I mean is, I feel like our friendship may be somewhat... Odd, and potentially a red flag to potential dates for either of us. I mean, she and I both feel very close to each other, we spend eight hours at a time talking and goofing off together, she's brought me home to her family multiple times, and we both seem pretty attached to each other, don't want to lose each other, and want each other in our lives long term. Even taking out the fact that I do have feelings, I think if a potential date for either of us knew we had someone like that in our lives, that would raise the question of "So why are you not trying to be with them instead of dating me?".

 

Maybe the best conversation to have would be whether or not our friendship, as is, is at an appropriate level, moving forward, and that we should both figure out if we need to scale it back some, or if we both want each other in our lives long term, then maybe we should explore that further.

 

I dunno. I mean, it skirts around the issue of having to confess my feelings, but still addresses that I see potential for it. And it would allow us to scale back without having to deal with a jarring revelation about me feeling something.

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Maybe, but I WANT to be in that place. It's just difficult getting there. I want to believe in our friendship, and believe in us. I know she'll likely prioritize her next boyfriend when they're in their "honeymoon phase", but I know she sees me in her life long term, too. Like I said, I just want to believe in us. But unfortunately, it's not a switch I can change over that quickly.

 

 

 

Yeah, I mean... I'm only "scared" of the response, because I already know what it would be, and I'm more scared by whether we could work through it and remain friends after. Like I said above, I really do want to believe in us. I want to believe that we can work through anything. But what if I'm wrong?

 

Keeping her in my life at all costs is pretty accurate, I'd say. And yeah, that would mean having to reconcile everything I'll be giving up and putting aside to make sure the friendship can exist. While I'm not there yet, I'm hoping that maybe I can get to that point.

 

It occurs to me right now that I wonder if I could have a conversation with her about whether our friendship has an "expiration date" due to the general difficulties of male/ female friendships, without having to go into confessing my feelings.

 

What I mean is, I feel like our friendship may be somewhat... Odd, and potentially a red flag to potential dates for either of us. I mean, she and I both feel very close to each other, we spend eight hours at a time talking and goofing off together, she's brought me home to her family multiple times, and we both seem pretty attached to each other, don't want to lose each other, and want each other in our lives long term. Even taking out the fact that I do have feelings, I think if a potential date for either of us knew we had someone like that in our lives, that would raise the question of "So why are you not trying to be with them instead of dating me?".

 

Maybe the best conversation to have would be whether or not our friendship, as is, is at an appropriate level, moving forward, and that we should both figure out if we need to scale it back some, or if we both want each other in our lives long term, then maybe we should explore that further.

 

I dunno. I mean, it skirts around the issue of having to confess my feelings, but still addresses that I see potential for it. And it would allow us to scale back without having to deal with a jarring revelation about me feeling something.

 

I have close male friends -over the years. Right now I am close with a few men -one since 1993. No expiration date for these reasons - first we never dated. We had one moment many years ago where things might have turned. I am glad the moment passed without incident. Neither of us ever wanted more in any strong way at all. He became friends/friendly with everyone I dated and with my husband -they like each other very much - and I became friendly with his "women" including his wife although I have far more rapport and commonality with him. I am in touch with a number of men I dated in the past. None are close friends anymore but no expiration date either -we behave appropriately, we both moved on from each other, etc. I think having male friends is extremely important including to a healthy marriage/relationship. But it has to be appropriate which for me means -no strong attraction, the spouse has the opportunity to meet the person and no going on dates or playing with fire like sleeping in the same hotel room or going to a romantic restaurant at night one on one, like that. I wouldn't have married anyone who forbade me from having male friends. My husband has female friends, too.

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Maybe, but I WANT to be in that place. It's just difficult getting there. I want to believe in our friendship, and believe in us. I know she'll likely prioritize her next boyfriend when they're in their "honeymoon phase", but I know she sees me in her life long term, too. Like I said, I just want to believe in us. But unfortunately, it's not a switch I can change over that quickly.

 

 

 

Yeah, I mean... I'm only "scared" of the response, because I already know what it would be, and I'm more scared by whether we could work through it and remain friends after. Like I said above, I really do want to believe in us. I want to believe that we can work through anything. But what if I'm wrong?

 

Keeping her in my life at all costs is pretty accurate, I'd say. And yeah, that would mean having to reconcile everything I'll be giving up and putting aside to make sure the friendship can exist. While I'm not there yet, I'm hoping that maybe I can get to that point.

 

It occurs to me right now that I wonder if I could have a conversation with her about whether our friendship has an "expiration date" due to the general difficulties of male/ female friendships, without having to go into confessing my feelings.

 

What I mean is, I feel like our friendship may be somewhat... Odd, and potentially a red flag to potential dates for either of us. I mean, she and I both feel very close to each other, we spend eight hours at a time talking and goofing off together, she's brought me home to her family multiple times, and we both seem pretty attached to each other, don't want to lose each other, and want each other in our lives long term. Even taking out the fact that I do have feelings, I think if a potential date for either of us knew we had someone like that in our lives, that would raise the question of "So why are you not trying to be with them instead of dating me?".

 

Maybe the best conversation to have would be whether or not our friendship, as is, is at an appropriate level, moving forward, and that we should both figure out if we need to scale it back some, or if we both want each other in our lives long term, then maybe we should explore that further.

 

I dunno. I mean, it skirts around the issue of having to confess my feelings, but still addresses that I see potential for it. And it would allow us to scale back without having to deal with a jarring revelation about me feeling something.

 

I will be honest, the first word that popped into my mind after reading this was "manipulation". My perception is that you want her to confess her feelings for you without you actually having to come out and tell her you want to date her. I'm also left wondering at the motivations behind a conversation about scaling back the friendship - being honest, is it more of a threat that you won't be there for her if she gets a boyfriend? Trying to get her to say she wants you in her life long-term feels like a passive-aggressive attempt to force her to convince you that you are as important to her as she is to you.

 

The statement about your relationship being “odd” feels more like you projecting - while someone you date may question your feelings for your best friend (given your feelings are blatantly obvious) your best friend may not give that same impression to a romantic partner. Right now it probably feels pretty intense because she is in a vulnerable state and clinging to those closest to her while she navigates thru her breakup. I know when I have gone thru a breakup I have relied on my friends to feed me soup and comb my hair and be within hugging distance when I need them. This means that I fill my time with my friends completely, whether that means hanging out at their family's homes, spending A LOT of time with them, etc. I rely on them to fill up the holes the breakup left while I heal, and it's nothing more than that.

 

Again, these are just my opinions from an outsider looking in, but what I am taking from this is that your feelings for her are too overwhelming for you to have a normal, healthy friendship with her.

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