Misunderstanding turned sour.

[MissCanuck]

I think she probably wants to break up.

 

Brace yourself for it.

[Tinydance]

Well if you're scared of her anger then that's a really bad sign. If it's to the point that you couldn't even text her. Sounds like you're walking on eggshells. Maybe this relationship has run its course?

[Whirling D]

Why in the devil would you say that? There is no evidence of that. We had been doing quite well for the last several months. Hardly any kind of anger or hostility.

 

As far as this relationship running it’s course… I don’t really see it that way. I can’t speak for her, but our planning for the future seems to indicate otherwise.

 

So… Update. We just got off the phone. She certainly wasn’t warm and fuzzy. We talked about it, and I tried to paint the picture that it was just two sources of energy that happened to be focused in a different direction, and it was nobody’s major fault.

 

Somehow, similar to her usual context, she seem to be thinking that I was blaming it on her, and it felt pretty clear to me that she was blaming it on me… Saying that I left her hanging up in the air, which I never would have thought would be the case, given our usual communication protocol... So… In someways, the evidence seems clear that she was a little annoyed that I was indecisive. I don’t mind that, but I do mind the anger that comes from her than not telling me that she was annoyed.

 

She also says she has a hard time understanding what I am saying in these kinds of situations… I don’t quite get that. I speak in fairly clear language. To me, it’s pretty simple to understand that I was waiting for her to contact me when she got out of work, for better or for worse. You may not believe that’s the best course of action, but it’s not hard to understand why I would do that, if you remember all the things that have transpired between us previously.

 

Her rationality and my rationality are not always in sync. Sometimes we don’t seem to believe that the other is making sense. There is going to be judgment. Both of us are judging each other for not making sense. She can’t imagine why I would not have contacted her later in the day to tell her what my plans were. I can’t imagine why she wouldn’t have checked in after work, like she always does, when we would then discuss it. The problem seems to be stemming from her insistence that it was up to me to contact her, Which I get, but she seems to not have any sort of willingness and understanding about me saying I wanted to be patient and let her call me when she was ready. It’s not that big of a deal, but it seemed like a big deal to her, for a reason she can only explain.

 

We ended the conversation by her saying in a

kind of mean tone that sometimes she thinks that just her and I think differently. That seems a bit aggressive/offensive to me… but I guess I don’t get a lot of what you guys are saying.

 

It could be a cultural thing, who knows… People that grew up in different places and in different environments have different thoughts of how things go down. I didn’t think almost anything last night was a big deal, and that she would call me when she got out of work and we would figure out a plan. That’s completely not what she was thinking. She thought it was up to me to contact her. Therefore, we just had different expectations of what we thought was going to happen. Both are OK in their own way. It should be seen as just a minor misunderstanding.

 

Once again, it’s the anger thing that troubles me. It seems too easy for her to build up these cases and use them as hostility and anger. I guess I do the same thing, so it’s probably not that different from most couples, I suspect.

[Wiseman2]

Are you from different cultures?

she was a little annoyed that I was indecisive.

It could be a cultural thing, who knows…

[Whirling D]

Well if you're scared of her anger then that's a really bad sign. If it's to the point that you couldn't even text her. Sounds like you're walking on eggshells. Maybe this relationship has run its course?

 

Tiny… I would think and expect that most couples go through this kind of dynamic. It would surprise me otherwise. We are two different people, and we grew up very differently, and we have very different ideological expectations.

 

I think my biggest difficulty is when I think back about the troubles we have already had, which seemed to be stabilizing quite nicely. It’s this kind of thing that shakes me and makes me wonder if my future will be plagued with anger and drama. That’s troubling to me. Until a while ago, she was suddenly pressuring me into when I was going to invite her to live with me in the house. We had talked about that numerous times before, and I have still been moving toward that, but I could tell the fact that I have been hesitating making it formal has been troubling to her. The main reason I have been hesitant is that I wanna wait and see how things settle for even more time in the future. I need to have a stable environment here, for me and for my kid, before I make any formal decisions like that.

 

Her demeanor during our last break ups was incoherent at best. That’s not kind to say, but I went through it and heard the things coming out of her mouth, and they were not pleasant, nor were they coming from someone who was settled in their own space. She was downright nasty, and I can assure you, it wasn’t just that she was saying what I didn’t want to hear. It wasn’t based in any kind of reality that I know of.

 

I really had to dig deep within myself to allow myself to trust her after that, but knowing her traumatic background, and hearing some of the very thoughtful things that she had to say about where she is in her own head, made me feel like I could let my guard down and trust that things were still moving in a forward direction. It’s been quite good lately, but I still have this nagging feeling that something is going to trigger that person that I have witnessed on a multiple of occasions that was not stable. Mind you, obviously, I’m not 100% stable all the time, either… So maybe that speaks some truth, as well.

[bluecastle]

Ooof.

 

I've not read every word of this thread, I admit, but I've read most. Pretty dizzying, I have to say, that just admitting that you were a doofus (to her, to us) is such a challenge. It needn't be like this. That it's like this with you guys so often—so combative, with compassion and humility next to impossible to excavate when needed—might really be worth thinking about. I'll come back to that in a moment.

 

Here's a little story, somewhat related. A few months ago, at the height of ultra-pressurized quarantine weirdness, I behaved in a way that upset my girlfriend. Tiny thing, in the scheme of the universe and our private universe. General gist? In the middle of dinner—or, well, between dinner and desert, after I'd cleared the plates—I kind of checked out, hopped onto my computer, did some aimless scrolling, probably on this site. She felt a bit dissed, expressed this when I joined her on the couch, in both a shift in mood and with her words, which she has a history of using eloquently.

 

Now, I could have chosen to go into wounded man litigation mode. I could have explained that as I cleaned up the table (a backhanded way to tout my awesomeness!) I saw her on the couch, looking at her phone, and that, being sensitive that she'd been feeling a lack of "her time," what with remote work and Zoom schooling and all that, I opted to give her a bit before resuming our evening—the one night a week we had where neither of us worked, child was with her father, and so on. All that was on my mind, for real, sensitivities in her that had stirred some sensitivity in me during a hypersensitive time on planet Earth and in our tiny planet.

 

Except, why bother? From her point of view, as she made clear, I just kind of opted to open up my computer instead of continuing our cozy little hang. Seeing it from her perspective, a perspective I love and respect without those feelings being conceptual, a little light went off in my head: Ooops, I just kind of sucked! Ooops, maybe I did just selfishly want to indulge my little ENA addiction! Face-palm emoji! And so what I said to her was basically that: "Hey, I just sucked. Got swept up in my own sh*t and sucked. I'm very sorry." Three minutes later we were snuggling and laughing. Hard to die on a hill when you don't go making mountains from molehills, when having your own awesomeness seen and vindicated isn't priority numero uno. And so our shared story of that night is a simple one: a nice night that was less than nice, for a moment, because I was a bit of a human doofus.

 

Back to you. Brass tacks here is that you seem to know you sucked. Sitting around like a teenager, hoping she'll text you, after you were wishy-washy about joining her for dinner? Hoping she'd read the tea leaves and understand your pivot to wanting to join her? Perhaps even wanting the reward of letting her know that after she reached out (again!) to see what's what with the evening? I say this to you as a friend, but: dude. There is really only so much male fragility a woman can handle with grace, regardless of the shape and size of the eggshells already scattered across the floor of the emotional room you two are building and inhabit. Sometimes you just have to sweep those to the side and own when you fall short of yours and another's expectations.

 

Which—and this is the generous view here—just doesn't seem like something that is in your collective arsenal. You're scared of her, and deep down you don't respect her, don't see her as an adult human who can "handle" emotions, perhaps even the basic business of living her life. Your words, not my judging. Were I to judge? I'd probably say something like: pot, meet kettle, since your own handling of emotions, at least historically with her, is awfully clumsy, similar to how a child handles a knife.

 

You've written here, and in other threads, that you're not sure how much more of this drama you can take. But from where I sit your threshold for drama—stirring it, sinking into it, fanning it—seems either (a) very high or (b) something being with her brings out in you the way a sight of a hamburger will nearly always trigger hunger in me. A year isn't an eternity, but it's a pretty good stretch of time to know how two people work together, or not. At your best, you two seem to graze something resembling compatibility and harmony, before veering off into this terrain, banging up the axels for a good bit, then getting back to the grazing period.

 

At the end of the day it's your call—and her call—if that's enough. She may be more direct in her anger, but I think yours may be just as potent, albeit channeled into a kind of pseudo-calm, mock-rational cadence that seems like a point of pride. Still, anger is anger, combat is combat. Maybe if you can see where you have a lot of the same qualities in her that you find so abrasive you can learn to stand down, a bit, rather than extend a one round scuffle into a 12 round title fight.

[Whirling D]

Are you from different cultures?

 

In many ways, yes. I pretty much grew out in the woods up in Canada, and she grew up in a very rugged poor area of an inner city in Massachusetts. From a western culture perspective, that’s about as different as you can get.

 

Our demeanors are very different. I am very soft-spoken, overly sensitive, obviously, and try very hard to please…. She is brash, in your face, doesn’t mind telling people what she thinks, and sometimes is a little bit too edgy for my comfort.

 

At our cores, we connect beautifully… She is one of the most thoughtful, nurturing, and intimate people I have ever known.

 

Interestingly, our cultural differences match those of my ex almost completely. I could say almost the exact same things about my ex, but that changed very radically once we had our kid. All the things that were so nurturing and intimate with my ex disappeared rapidly. Maybe that’s part of my mistrust of the situation, also. I often wonder if I would be better off finding someone with more of my kind of demeanor. It’s hard for me to come to a strong consensus about that.

 

Is it true to say that many couples often wonder if they are making the right choice to be with who they are? I am presuming that most relationships are really hard work. They certainly have been for me.

[Andrina]

She said she was expecting me to text her with a final answer, but that has never been our protocol. She has always been the one to reach back out to me. She was nasty in her presentation that it was my responsibility to get back to her. It was just a mixup in expectations.

 

I'm going to guess she's made whatever efforts, accommodations, and holding back of some of her irritations to deal with your way of doing things to attempt to make the relationship work.

 

After a year together, the newness has worn off, and I know I'd blow with this sort of wishy washy behavior, especially if it's a repetitive behavior trait of yours. What you think of as "this is how we roll" could possibly that she has just put up with how you seem to like things, and she's just gone along with it to keep the peace.

 

But yes, it takes two. Maybe she hasn't been clearer about what she wants improved in the relationship, so you don't have concrete examples to work from.

 

In your shoes, when you do meet up to discuss things, I'd ask her what you each need to do to improve the state of your union. Even if it goes against your grain, pull way back on the wishy washiness and make a definitive decision. Instead of guessing she might need emotional support and would feel better if you attended after her friend died, why didn't you just ask her if that's how she felt? You can also say to her: Please be honest with me about how important it is that I attend something with you or not. I'm not a mindreader. I will always go with you when it's super important to you that I be there, because you matter more than anything else I could be doing.

 

Until you own up to what you did wrong, it won't benefit you for future relationship issues. Using protocol as a reason to back your arguments will only wind up with you being an ex.

[Whirling D]

She said she was expecting me to text her with a final answer, but that has never been our protocol. She has always been the one to reach back out to me. She was nasty in her presentation that it was my responsibility to get back to her. It was just a mixup in expectations.

 

I'm going to guess she's made whatever efforts, accommodations, and holding back of some of her irritations to deal with your way of doing things to attempt to make the relationship work.

 

After a year together, the newness has worn off, and I know I'd blow with this sort of wishy washy behavior, especially if it's a repetitive behavior trait of yours. What you think of as "this is how we roll" could possibly that she has just put up with how you seem to like things, and she's just gone along with it to keep the peace.

 

But yes, it takes two. Maybe she hasn't been clearer about what she wants improved in the relationship, so you don't have concrete examples to work from.

 

In your shoes, when you do meet up to discuss things, I'd ask her what you each need to do to improve the state of your union. Even if it goes against your grain, pull way back on the wishy washiness and make a definitive decision. Instead of guessing she might need emotional support and would feel better if you attended after her friend died, why didn't you just ask her if that's how she felt? You can also say to her: Please be honest with me about how important it is that I attend something with you or not. I'm not a mindreader. I will always go with you when it's super important to you that I be there, because you matter more than anything else I could be doing.

 

Until you own up to what you did wrong, it won't benefit you for future relationship issues. Using protocol as a reason to back your arguments will only wind up with you being an ex.

 

Thank you for your thoughts… You’ve made some good points. Blue castle has also, but I have to think about those a bit more… :-)

 

Her and I always do pretty much everything together… I think this situation was my way, and one of my first Waze as of late, to express to her that I needed to take my own space to do the things that are important to me. I did frame it that way when we spoke. She seemed to understand that.

 

My interest wasn’t to nag her about not calling me, or turn it into a 12 round bout. I started off by trying to articulate this as just a miscommunication, and a misunderstanding of what each of us expected in that situation.

 

I bet I don’t go more than a couple of weeks without asking her how she is doing in the relationship, and what I could do better. I don’t often come across as wishy-washy, believe it or not. I think I was coming across that way because I felt like I was treading on slim waters… Based on our history, I wasn’t sure how she was going to respond to me carving out a bit of my own space when I felt I needed it. As the evening went on I felt much better about my progress at home and thought I might want to join her.

 

Yes, I was being a bit of a teenager waiting for her, but I was a bit confused by not hearing from her like I normally would. That made me think that we were sliding back into a negative interaction. Her tone to me on the phone the day before when I told her I might want to stay home was a little bit chippy, as well, so I suspected she might be harboring a bit of annoyance and not articulating it.

 

Blue castle… Your anecdote is a good one… But was your girlfriend not willing to actually hear what your perspective was and that you were actually trying to think of her, as well? I suppose, your point, in the end, is that it almost doesn’t matter whether she hears you in your situation, or my girlfriend hears me and my situation. The bottom line is that both felt somehow dissed. I don’t get it, but that’s the way that her brain thinks. I can’t change that, even though I felt that darts were being tossed in my Direction last night, and all I tried to do was gently encourage her to understand that I wasn’t trying to be thoughtless. She seemed unable to acknowledge that.

 

Despite what some of you have written, we both bend over backwards to be good to each other, and most of the time, that works really well. I think this was just a short circuit.

[Tinydance]

I noticed in one of your previous comments you said something like your "communication protocol". I don't think communication is actually a protocol. You seem to think that it is. There aren't really rigid rules in how you have to communicate. The best way of communication is openness and being upfront. By upfront I don't mean "Yes your bum looks big in that" lol But just speaking genuinely and not being afraid to approach your partner. I don't think there is such a thing as having a communication routine or whatever. E.g. if my partner always calls me on their lunch break but one time they don't. I don't need to sit and wait. In the very least I can text and say: "Hey honey, didn't hear from you yet, how's your day?" It's not the normal "protocol", but so what? The beauty of life is it's not always the same.

 

I really think it's not a good sign that you're afraid of your girlfriend's anger. You say all these things have happened before. How do you think this is all going well? And more importantly what are you and her going to do to address these issues? You are very different by the sounds of it. Both in terms of background, personality and communication styles.

 

What I think you need to consider is, is this a case of opposites attract? Or opposites repel? Lol

[j.man]

I mean... I don't quite get how people think she was "right to be angry," at least expressively. They're her friends. And it was a plan she'd already made independent of you. It wasn't like you left her high and dry with your friends at a restaurant. It's nice if a partner can join you, but it shouldn't be such a big deal if not.

 

At the same time-- and this is one of the very few times I do shamelessly stereotype-- while nobody fancies indecisive people, women especially despise that trait in men. Like to the point that if you're waffling over something as menial as dinner the following evening and "surprising" her last minute with a decision to go, you are running a decent enough chance respect for you will be thrown out the window. Again I think any amount of actual anger is uncalled for and honestly a flaw for her part, but just don't pull **** like that period. Commit to going or don't. So long as we're talking more trivial decisions rather than big life choices, you'd even be better off committing to a choice she'll half-jokingly gripe to her friends about rather than sitting on your hands while she loses her sense of value in you. And FWIW, that's not saying you can't or shouldn't prioritize decisiveness in a woman just the same. Just that you're gonna much moreso be limiting your market value in the dating world for not having confidence in your decision making.

 

And all that isn't meant to dog pile on you. For any respect she's lost for you, I'd have lost the same for her if this is what's got her in so big of a tiff. I think you've both got a lot of room to grow before finding yourself in a position to catch your respective Mr. or Mrs. Right.

[bluecastle]

At our cores, we connect beautifully…

 

Is it true to say that many couples often wonder if they are making the right choice to be with who they are? I am presuming that most relationships are really hard work.

 

Just going to riff for a moment. Absorb, rebut, or discard as you see fit.

 

Going only from your threads about this, your "cores" connect similarly to, I don't know, oil and water. Or heavy cream inside a lactose intolerant digestive tract. Diesel fuel in an engine built for unleaded. Lots of friction, in short, once everything gets down to the proverbial core.

 

Yes, I understand that alongside all that there are lovely moments, calm moments, and no doubt some jazzy moments of sweat and sizzle, to say nothing of all sorts of lofty hopes and feelings brewed by chemistry and stirred by time. But that? That is not the cores, but the surfaces. The cores are who we are, and how we connect, when all that is stripped away. It's the stuff that comes out, generally, as we get further into something with someone.

 

Which leads to this idea of relationships taking "work." Well, yes and no. Mixing oil and water is, no doubt, a lot of work. As is digesting that hunk of triple cream cheese—so delicious in the moment!—for the lactose intolerant person. As is trying to drive cross country with that diesel fuel destroying the engine built for unleaded. It's endless, repetitive, grueling work—gulag stuff, say, rather than the "work" of writing a novel, which I think is how a relationship should feel.

 

Were I to venture a hypothesis? I'd say that you two work beautifully in your cores in your imagination of those cores. Your story, written in your own head, about it all, inspired by some of the surface stimulation. When she, or reality, or the chemistry experiment of you plus her, refutes that story, dents it? You kind short circuit and implode and get heroically stubborn, for a bit. Her too, it seems, but I don't have access here to her ear for bending.

 

Moral of the story? Everything in life—actual work, relationships, whatever—are only has hard and arduous as we choose for them to be.

 

Heck, I'll bring that back around to your assessment of my little anecdote. My girlfriend would be more than "willing" to hear my perspective. She shows me this time and again, to the point where it's just not a battle to feel seen. Ain't a lot of work, in short, and I don't think anyone would call either of us simple souls. Core stuff, you could say. Bottom line on that evening is that hers were the feelings that were hurt, not mine, and it was my actions that caused the bruising. Why make it more complicated than that? I mean, if I had a deep-seeded sense that she couldn't "see" my perspective I wouldn't be with her. The work of "being seen" is of exactly zero interest to me.

[LaHermes]

I'll be brief.

 

I have to echo Tinydance here:

 

"I really think it's not a good sign that you're afraid of your girlfriend's anger. You say all these things have happened before. How do you think this is all going well? And more importantly what are you and her going to do to address these issues? You are very different by the sounds of it. Both in terms of background, personality and communication styles."

 

Not so, OP

 

"I am presuming that most relationships are really hard work."

 

Yes, one does have to work at a relationship, but if it is "really hard work" as in a day to day slog involving blow-ups, combat, unpleasantness, then IMO it is not worth it.

 

You ask, OP:

 

"I often wonder if I would be better off finding someone with more of my kind of demeanor. "

 

Quick answer is yes. Not a clone of you, but someone whose temper isn't constantly simmering under the surface.

 

This situation is highly dysfunctional, OP.

 

Some months back you said:

 

"Truthfully, although I love this girl, I’m not sure I really want this kind of drama.

"

 

And you mentioned that she had come from abusive relationships, where no doubt constant blow ups, temper tantrums, and conflict were the norm, leading to the kind of "relationship" style she has now.

[Tinydance]

One thing I strongly agree with in your posts OP is yes, you should be allowed to turn down an invitation with her friends and have time for yourself once in a while. And she should be fine with it. Of course as long as you're giving a clear answer. Saying "no" is fine. But "no" is an actual clear answer. It's not good that you're scared and feel like you can never say "no". That's a bad sign in a relationship. You used the term "having no power". Why does your girlfriend have power over you? You are meant to be on even ground. It almost even sounds like you still didn't want to go, so subconsciously that's also why you didn't contact her. But you got dressed and ready like a good boy because you thought she'd call you and be annoyed and then you'd go. Because you felt forced to. I see something very wrong with this picture...

[Batya33]

I'll be brief.

 

I have to echo Tinydance here:

 

"I really think it's not a good sign that you're afraid of your girlfriend's anger. You say all these things have happened before. How do you think this is all going well? And more importantly what are you and her going to do to address these issues? You are very different by the sounds of it. Both in terms of background, personality and communication styles."

 

Not so, OP

 

"I am presuming that most relationships are really hard work."

 

Yes, one does have to work at a relationship, but if it is "really hard work" as in a day to day slog involving blow-ups, combat, unpleasantness, then IMO it is not worth it.

 

You ask, OP:

 

"I often wonder if I would be better off finding someone with more of my kind of demeanor. "

 

Quick answer is yes. Not a clone of you, but someone whose temper isn't constantly simmering under the surface.

 

I agree with all this and as far as anger I'd need to know the history of your wishy washiness. That's how I would evaluate if it was an overreaction.

 

you wrote to me:

What I wouldn’t do is deliberately not call them, even though that was the tradition, unless I was upset about that situation, or trying to make a non-verbal statement. I think she has the capacity to engage in power struggles.

 

But you did the same to her by being passive aggressive and wishy washy - you were engaging in a power struggle too.

[LaHermes]

When all is said and done, OP, your question (some time back):

 

"I suppose my biggest question is what do I do?"

 

We are telling you, seeing as how you asked.

 

You mentioned somewhere that you would like a reasonably peaceful life. This "relationship" isn't it.

[Wiseman2]

Agree. A simple communication about meeting up after work or not should not feel like plodding through quicksand. Basically that creates unnecessary drama.

Yes, one does have to work at a relationship, but if it is "really hard work" as in a day to day slog involving blow-ups, combat, unpleasantness, then IMO it is not worth it.

[Whirling D]

One thing I strongly agree with in your posts OP is yes, you should be allowed to turn down an invitation with her friends and have time for yourself once in a while. And she should be fine with it. Of course as long as you're giving a clear answer. Saying "no" is fine. But "no" is an actual clear answer. It's not good that you're scared and feel like you can never say "no". That's a bad sign in a relationship. You used the term "having no power". Why does your girlfriend have power over you? You are meant to be on even ground. It almost even sounds like you still didn't want to go, so subconsciously that's also why you didn't contact her. But you got dressed and ready like a good boy because you thought she'd call you and be annoyed and then you'd go. Because you felt forced to. I see something very wrong with this picture...

 

Power... it is a very complex subject in a relationship. I get a strong feeling, with plenty of anecdotal history between her and I, that she is used to being the alpha in her environment. At home, in her own house, she’s a bit like a drill sergeant, ordering people around and being a little bit authoritarian. That just won’t work for me, and I think that is a little bit uncomfortable for her. It’s uncomfortable for me, because I know it will lead to destruction.

 

My fear in contacting her last night was that it might bring out that side of her. And you are right. That is not good. After thinking about it for a while, I’ve been thinking that in someways, maybe not calling her was a little bit of a test for me to find out whether she was upset with me or not, and I’m still not convinced that she wasn’t a little bit annoyed that I wasn’t going with her. I think she has this reality that believes that starcrossed lovers are supposed to be hand-in-hand forever and never be parted. That’s not my reality, though. I worry about that.

 

Actually, I had turned a corner and was interested in going last night… I had finished everything I set out to do, and was looking forward to it. I’m sure many will ask why I just didn’t call her and tell her that. That answer is complicated, but I try to come to terms with it.

[Whirling D]

Agree. A simple communication about meeting up after work or not should not feel like plodding through quicksand. Basically that creates unnecessary drama.

 

Interestingly, that’s not a situation that has been problematic for us in the past. It all just seems to fall into place and work, which is a really good thing. That’s part of why am a little mystified as to why she was so upset about it.

[Batya33]

Interestingly, that’s not a situation that has been problematic for us in the past. It all just seems to fall into place and work, which is a really good thing. That’s part of why am a little mystified as to why she was so upset about it.

 

Perhaps because it was building up over time?

[Wiseman2]

It's not that mystifying. You played guessing games and text games because you didn't want to go but didn't want to say that. It's not about mild manner Canadian country gents vs inner city Bostonians. Canadians know how to text a simple no or yes in a timely fashion. Making simple matters excessively complex is drama.

That’s part of why am a little mystified as to why she was so upset about it.

[bluecastle]

Power... it is a very complex subject in a relationship.

 

Again, it's really only as complex as you want it to be.

 

How I see it? A relationship that works—romantic, platonic, professional, whatever—isn't a power struggle. No, it's not always some utopian ideal of equal, but the shifts in power are subtle, fluid, not extreme, kind of like two adults on a see-saw. They balance each other out more than anything, just by the nature of their size and intuitive nature of how a see-saw functions.

 

What you're describing as "complex" is more like children playing tug of war: hard, impulsive grabs at power that leaves one person in the dirt. Until the other is in the dirt. And so on. Until both people are exhausted enough to chill. For a bit. Until someone feels like tugging the rope again. To the point that even during those "chill" moments one or both children are quietly, semi-consciously plotting their next move to challenge the power of the other or consolidate their own.

 

The loop you're in right now is not dissimilar to that of your political conversations, correct? The armchair shrink in me couldn't help but see you describe a similar dynamic with your ex-wife—one that became unsustainable after becoming parents—and so one can't help but wonder if, on some level, you are trying to reenact that script on a different stage, with a different ending, rather than seeing about writing a completely different script.

 

Per the "mystification" stuff: a house built on a cliff does not need an earthquake to collapse, but sometimes just a gust of wind.

[MissCanuck]

Do you over-complicate matters in other areas of your life, OP?

[Rose Mosse]

I don't think you like her, period. And you're intimidated by her. It's simmering under the surface. She'll eventually realize this and it won't work. Or she has very low self-esteem and will continue enabling this dynamic.

[Whirling D]

Again, it's really only as complex as you want it to be.

 

How I see it? A relationship that works—romantic, platonic, professional, whatever—isn't a power struggle. No, it's not always some utopian ideal of equal, but the shifts in power are subtle, fluid, not extreme, kind of like two adults on a see-saw. They balance each other out more than anything, just by the nature of their size and intuitive nature of how a see-saw functions.

 

What you're describing as "complex" is more like children playing tug of war: hard, impulsive grabs at power that leaves one person in the dirt. Until the other is in the dirt. And so on. Until both people are exhausted enough to chill. For a bit. Until someone feels like tugging the rope again. To the point that even during those "chill" moments one or both children are quietly, semi-consciously plotting their next move to challenge the power of the other or consolidate their own.

 

The loop you're in right now is not dissimilar to that of your political conversations, correct? The armchair shrink in me couldn't help but see you describe a similar dynamic with your ex-wife—one that became unsustainable after becoming parents—and so one can't help but wonder if, on some level, you are trying to reenact that script on a different stage, with a different ending, rather than seeing about writing a completely different script.

 

Per the "mystification" stuff: a house built on a cliff does not need an earthquake to collapse, but sometimes just a gust of wind.

 

Thank you BC. I enjoy your responses. You are direct but mostly polite and fair. I appreciate that.

 

Things to talk about… Power and respect.

 

Power: I think one of the things that my girlfriend is attracted to about me, maybe a couple of things... I am pretty good at managing my own affairs. Most of the time. She finds that attractive that I run my own house fairly well, and my daughter, too. I have things fairly well arranged and organized here. However, when she comes over, I think it is intimidating for her to take a backseat in my house, which would be expected. I do what I can to make space for her, mentally and physically in my life, but I can see her struggle with it, because as mentioned, I think she is clearly used to being the alpha in almost all the environments she is in.

 

In general, I feel pretty good at balancing power… I’m not as good when somebody points a finger at me and says “you’re wrong“, which is what she seemed to be doing last night. She thought it was wrong for me because I didn’t call her back or text her in reasonable manner. Many of you have said the same thing. I didn’t think that it was that big of a distinction, because it never seems to be. We work that stuff out pretty easily and commonly. Fairly quickly when she got on the phone she started pointing the finger to me as if it was my fault… I have a hard time with that, because I think It comes with a power struggle on her part. I don’t think she feels power in my world, And I think that is intimidating to her. I don’t think she feels that she can come in and be a motherly figure, which is what I think she wants to do. I’d like parts of that motherly figure in her persona, but not when it comes to trying to control what’s happening around my own environment. In other words, it completely felt like she was trying to do the Toughlove thing last night and shake her finger in my face in an angry mother kind of way. That’s not how my soul wants to be treated.

 

Typically, she seems to let me do what I do well, and organize my own affairs, but I see and hear her do little things to undermine that on a fairly regular basis, even in regards to how I raise my daughter. I welcome her input, but sometimes she gets a little bit chippy, and that brings in conflict.

 

Respect: there are traits and characteristics that I have a hard time respecting with her. There is a lot that I do respect her for. I don’t think respect needs to be an all or nothing proposition. There are likely things that she doesn’t respect about me. I get it. She does a lot of very good things for people. However, there are things that she has done, and manners in which she conducts herself, that I do not respect. We think differently in those areas, and we seem to be OK agreeing to disagree. I think that’s fine, but it does rub me the wrong way a little bit when I will hear her say something that makes me feel uncomfortable. I have to live with that.

 

I know a lot of people on here seem to feel that one person’s opinion is just as valid, in a larger context, then another’s. I’m not sure I would agree with that. I think there comes a point where you have to draw the line at what you believe is proper conduct, or not. There are times that I have felt uncomfortable where that line has been drawn with her. It’s becoming less of a big deal, since I am trying to focus positively on the very good things that her and I half together. Whether I will be able to sustain that over time, is still yet to be seen. It may likely be small interactions like this that eventually wear things down to a point where one of or both of us are going to throw in the towel. On the other hand, we may learn to better our own selves to the point where these kinds of interactions will become less and less.