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Infertile men and quality of life - impossible unless beta male.


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That's it? No hormone therapy or other more appropriate intervention? You're angry and bitter.

 

It sounds like you never had appropriate counseling or medical intervention.

 

It's true that you have to accept who you are. We all do. However you have decided to make fertility the central platform of your anger. So people are addressing this including your therapist but the real issue is anger.

 

You have decided that your sperm count is the cause of all problems. When you choose to perseverate on one nonmodifiable issue you choose your own bitterness.

 

However when you redirect the therapy and problems to infertility, you are steering help away from the real issues.

 

 

 

No hormone intervention until last year, no proper therapy until I started reflecting and researching to understand why the same failures repeat. Now its too late. I should have had TRT at age 12. Sperm bank at 16. TRT the last 34 years. Cant physiologically catch that up and is irreversible now.

 

So its a tough one. Should I pursue justice? don't think any actions will address biological failure or tell me how to accept.

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Wow, as someone with seemingly endless health problems and lots of fertility issues I find this to be an incredibly inane conversation. Millions of people contribute to the world without reproducing. Leonardo Da Vinci never had children, so clearly, made no contribution to the world. Same goes for Isaac Newton, Tchaikovsky, Helen Keller, Baruch Spinoza, the list goes on and on. If you are going to define your life by one element only then you are clearly choosing a diminished and limited life and that is what you want. Or you could open your view and realize there are many ways to positively contribute to the world and you are too wrapped up in yourself to notice.

 

 

Dear Arjumand, Thanks for sharing. I get the point, I have also contributed significantly to the economic development of 4 developing countries employing over 600 people per project for this very reason, transferring skills, somehow it didn't directly create a life, like the local football coach did in my wife whilst Im saving the world doing the 'good guy' stuff. Doesn't seem to compare.

 

It is insane you right, but how do humans process these challenges? What do people tell themselves to say that it is ok to take my family, you deserve it mate, impregnate her all you want, I cant, but I will stay and raise your genetics while you find another Women, doing the right thing to her aswell.

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Have you read up on it? At all? Many 47,xxy go through life undiagnosed.

 

Significantly. I have communicated to 47XXY men, They simply accept it, or in denial mechanism. Undiagnosed 47s are all submissive males believing they are doing what they meant to do (undiagnosed low testosterone levels has this impact).

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Significantly. I have communicated to 47XXY men, They simply accept it, or in denial mechanism. Undiagnosed 47s are all submissive males believing they are doing what they meant to do (undiagnosed low testosterone levels has this impact).

 

As a beta male, is it your job to identify the alpha males in the room and report to them as submissive?

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Thank you for everyone's contribution. And I value your time even reading this, if anyone, I value time exclusively.

 

I'm not judging to say some are right and some are wrong, as it is relative and surely we can't simply compare with birds regarding evolutionary processes (Darwin) as we are conscious cognitive beings.

 

I have the answer.

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Yes it does. It's unfortunate that the diagnosis came late for you.

 

Your ex-wife cheated because she's a sleaze, not because you were born with a genetic varient.

 

Try not to put this all down to your chromosomes. A lot has to do with the behavior of the exes.

(undiagnosed low testosterone levels has this impact).
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OMG, do you really think your wife cheated on you and acted like a because you are infertile? That is what you got out of all of this? I know PLENTY of men and women who are partnered with infertile individuals and not one of them cheated. You know why? They are good people with character. Clearly your ex wife isn't. Maybe you need to stop obsessing on infertility and see a therapist about the fact that you went through emotional trauma at the hands of someone you trusted and then you might find a better approach to life.

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OMG, do you really think your wife cheated on you and acted like a because you are infertile? That is what you got out of all of this? I know PLENTY of men and women who are partnered with infertile individuals and not one of them cheated. You know why? They are good people with character. Clearly your ex wife isn't. Maybe you need to stop obsessing on infertility and see a therapist about the fact that you went through emotional trauma at the hands of someone you trusted and then you might find a better approach to life.

 

Lots of wisdom here.

 

It's natural, when we are cheated on, to channel that rage, to figure out the reason. And since most all of us humans will have parts of ourselves we struggle to accept, from infertility to our body shape to the number in our bank account, odds are that's going to be the first place we go for answers. "I was never thin enough for him," someone says in despair, adding: "Because men are programmed to seek out super thin women." Or: "Society and social media have programmed women to just want rich men, so of course she left me for the dude with the yacht."

 

None of that is true, just like the world refutes your truth a million times over daily. But it provides a form of relief, at least initially, because it gives the rage something to latch onto, taking the raw materials of pain and insecurity and enriching them, like uranium, into a weapon. But that weapon only harms the self, because rage is a thing to learn to let go, just like what makes us insecure is what we need to learn to accept, since it prevents us from reentering reality, where people are just people, not Darwinian pawns on a chessboard.

 

And some people? They suck, or make some choices that really suck, and hurt other people. Much that really sucks, there is a very real silver lining to it: the fact that humans have also proven themselves shockingly resilient, capable of moving through, and past, moments of pain, deep-seeded insecurity. Life is either very short or very long, depending on how you squint, but I say take this moment in your life as a calling to move through that which you're holding onto for power and comfort, at the expense of savoring any of those things in any genuine way.

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OMG, do you really think your wife cheated on you and acted like a because you are infertile? That is what you got out of all of this? I know PLENTY of men and women who are partnered with infertile individuals and not one of them cheated. You know why? They are good people with character. Clearly your ex wife isn't. Maybe you need to stop obsessing on infertility and see a therapist about the fact that you went through emotional trauma at the hands of someone you trusted and then you might find a better approach to life.

 

Of course, all partners face the same infidelity risk. No, what I got from it is that I don't have a choice. If I want the quality of life brought by family, providing life skills, its going to be another man's child and my wife's, and never my eyes looking at me.

 

I know how it must sound selfish and stupid. I wouldn't be in this topic in this forum if I didn't really think about the issue first.

Consider you put all your effort, dedicate your life to a goal, restarting repeatedly, only to realise 30 years later, you wasted your time because of a simple science fact. Did you know that in some countries/states, even a sperm donor biological father, retain his parental rights if he wishes? Why would that be the default and law, if there is just soo much more to life for them out there?

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If anyone could recommend how to find a therapist which is 47XXY, and with personal experience, I would definitely be interested. With my limited knowledge, I know professional therapists are guided by and ethically restricted to clinical guides. I have read these guidelines. It may work for the masses of patients to a suitable extent, to look the other way and be happy. Is it really that easy?

 

Should I just lower my standards and expectations of myself and live a gray life with a fake smile. To the experienced people, what value did you find that compares/replaces fertility? what is the silver lining in your life?

 

The data does not provide a scientific element equivalent, or I have not found it yet.

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You need to research the support groups for chromosomal and intersex conditions. However most licensed qualified therapists/doctors can manage issues associated with divorce, infertility, depression, improving coping skills, etc.

 

It's surprising you have not consulted a geneticist or gotten a recommendation from those resources. Research more on Klinefelter Syndrome, rather than perseverating on merely the infertility aspect. It's surprising you don't have a regular physician, endocrinologist and urologist.

 

The infertility is just a symptom not the whole issue. You seem well adjusted as many 47xxy men are, so some tweaking and support via therapy would help immensely.

If anyone could recommend how to find a therapist which is 47XXY, and with personal experience, I would definitely be interested.
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Well, there have to be a few infertile therapists (male) in this percentage group:

 

"North America demonstrates rates of male infertility 4.5-6% [4]. While a calculated percentage reveals 4.5-6% of North American males are infertile, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that 9.4% of males in the United States are infertile"

 

Where to start looking for an infertile psychologist is another matter.

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JOHNS HOPKINS MEDICINE Klinefelter Syndrome Center: https://klinefelter.jhu.edu/

 

Contacted them thank you. I have also a few in UK which are closer to my lockdown location. No reply in the last 100 days.

 

LaHermes, yes it is unfair, and I can deal with many issues in this regard, and have, this is issue is blindsiding me completely as it has no logic. Which means it must be evolutionary (natural selection) and so there is a reason for it, which means that naturally, it should not bother me, but it is. Similarly one can not dumb yourself down once you acquired the knowledge.

 

As Wiseman2 suggested there is maybe an underlying issue, I cant see what it is though, I'm generally successful at everything I do and can self manage through emotional intelligence.

I'm a scientific guy, I need a scientific solution.

 

There are some good philosophical explanations on here, and I would start to believe that there is so much more to life, as soon as I see fertile men sending their women for IVF by sperm donor of other males. I think you see my point that it is not a real silver lining, it just makes us feel better about it.

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From The Guardian (UK)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/12/the-male-infertility-crisis-my-failure-at-fatherhood-ate-away-at-my-very-being

 

" A comprehensive study published last year by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem suggests that sperm count among western men has more than halved over the past 40 years. There have been several other studies that have reached similar conclusions, but this was by far the largest. According to experts in the field, as many as one in five young men have low sperm counts, and about one in two are below the optimum."

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From The Guardian (UK)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/12/the-male-infertility-crisis-my-failure-at-fatherhood-ate-away-at-my-very-being

 

" A comprehensive study published last year by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem suggests that sperm count among western men has more than halved over the past 40 years. There have been several other studies that have reached similar conclusions, but this was by far the largest. According to experts in the field, as many as one in five young men have low sperm counts, and about one in two are below the optimum."

 

Thanks LaHermes. I have read all articles and journals on the topic. I remember this one as male infertility is unacceptable in the middle east as you are considered a weak useless male ('a worm'). So males blame it on their wives in denial. This is intense stuff, Im not being dramatic, its real.

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Just wondering whether you have contacted others who are in your situation? Don't know whether the man mentioned in the article, Glenn Barden, (a TV producer) would be approachable. The fact that he went public on the issue ....maybe?

 

Am I to understand you are Middle Eastern then?

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Most people don't like something the genetic hand they were dealt. Just look around. Sex changes, plastic surgery, people who complain about their height, weight, parents, you name it.

 

You seem to have played your hand very well, including having a later diagnosis and having a scientific mind that searches for answers and solutions rather than platitudes and anecdotes.

 

Who cares what famous people never had kids? What matters is that you know yourself and realize that while your chromosomal situation is not the standard xy situation you can still play a very good hand. For example being intelligent, perhaps a mixed blessing at times. Try to keep perspective and you'll do well.

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Thanks Wiseman2 and LeHermes. No I'm only working here so I am exposed to the interesting culture and Sharia law. The concepts are very direct. No room for weakness. Creates a robust society.

 

Thanks for your patience and trying to let me down easy. I know deep down I have to get on and outgrow it. Was hoping for support and found it here thank you.

 

Let's close this thread, I need to get on with life. Maybe find an advantage. I was reading through the comments on that video clip. Positive stuff.

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