Prenup

[Seraphim]

I think it's only right for you protect your mothers interests which ultimately will become yours. Who knows what might happen in the future regarding your relationship! Money turns people's heads and hearts. I've experienced it from all sides. These people that say you shouldn't be considering going in to relationships thinking about what happens to your assets when it goes wrong have clearly never been through the financial ruin of a divorce separation. Take it from an old hand and do what needs to be done to protect your mothers flat. Its prudent & wise to do so.

I may not have experienced divorce in my own relationship but my parents are divorced and my mom has been divorced twice and married three times . Believe me I hold no illusions ,however I’m not a pessimist either . I don’t believe what happened with my parents is my destiny . I’ve been with my husband for 31 years and married for 26 of them. I know a lot of relationships that have lasted until death .

[Skeptic76]

Marriage is a legal contract. Prenups are just amendments to the legal obligations of the married parties. There are already laws on the books about what happens if that contract is dissolved. If you want to make different stipulations as a couple is that really such a bad thing, or is there a sense of true partnership and doing what’s best for one another in that act? I dunno.

 

Anyways, is there any harm in owning that it wasn’t very romantic of you to bring it up that way? That your head was in “financial mode” but you do love her very much. I would take one for the team on this one. Pick your battles.

[Rose Mosse]

Regarding the prenup convo, I think it depends on the person. The future is always uncertain as is your current relationship. I think it's more a test of her character than anything. Don't marry someone who can't take something in their stride or gets overworked about faraway notions. This may be a red flag if your gf is unwilling to discuss certain topics with you. I'd approach the matter again without mentioning a prenup and speaking about your mum's needs instead. Discussing how you might go about this as a team and coming to an agreement on how to go forwards might make more sense to the both of you.

 

You're in the middle here so stay as neutral as possible and look into more info on how to proceed.

[Danmarko]

I may not have experienced divorce in my own relationship but my parents are divorced and my mom has been divorced twice and married three times . Believe me I hold no illusions ,however I’m not a pessimist either . I don’t believe what happened with my parents is my destiny . I’ve been with my husband for 31 years and married for 26 of them. I know a lot of relationships that have lasted until death .

In an Ideal world we would all love to have a marriage that can last 31 years, till death us do part! However the reality is that a great number of marriages do fail leading to financial hardship and squabbling on both sides. It's not pessimistic to be prudent, especially when your dealing with your mothers investment and her future. As the flat would pass in to your name for the remainder of the mortgage there are many scenarios that could arise in the future that could leave both you & your mother facing hard times. Don't let a relationship/ marriage breakdown become one of them because you didn't take the necessary steps to protect yourselves.

[Billie28]

I haven’t read the replies.

 

But all I can say is , why make a financial commitment to someone whom you won’t make a lifelong emotional commitment to? Someone who you haven’t actually discussed life long goals with?

 

The area you buy in might have great schools and amenities nearby but since you haven’t discussed any of this with your gf , why assume that’s anything to do with you??

 

You are arranging a financial commitment with someone who are emotionally involved with , yet she has an issue with your financial agreements with your trustworthy family???

 

Do not marry her without a prenup. You hadn’t really planned on marrying her anyway. If you had , wouldn’t you have proposed by now??? Sounds like you had doubts before this?

[Seraphim]

In an Ideal world we would all love to have a marriage that can last 31 years, till death us do part! However the reality is that a great number of marriages do fail leading to financial hardship and squabbling on both sides. It's not pessimistic to be prudent, especially when your dealing with your mothers investment and her future. As the flat would pass in to your name for the remainder of the mortgage there are many scenarios that could arise in the future that could leave both you & your mother facing hard times. Don't let a relationship/ marriage breakdown become one of them because you didn't take the necessary steps to protect yourselves.

Then it may take him time to find a woman who is agreeable and this woman might not be the one. But suggesting a prenup to someone you haven’t even proposed to and buying a house with someone you are not even married to is not prudent anyway. And mentioning a prenup in a half by chance way is NOT “ discussing “ a prenup” it is slipping something is in by happen chance and then being surprised when it is not well received.

[Wiseman2]

It really depends on the family law in your jurisdiction. In some places spouses never have access to inherited or premarital wealth or assets. This is why a flimsy prenup is a huge mistake on your part. You need to have a will in place anyway. You need to have the appropriate life insurance and beneficiaries in place on not only that but on all your holdings, accounts etc.

 

You would be wise to co-own or put your family assets in trusts that a divorcing or widowed spouse can not access. However you need to do this long before you marry. Prenups are often garbage legal instruments that are only effective in the case of this that and the other. Also the prospective spouse can alter it, not sign it and has the right to have their attorney make any modifications.

 

Be smart cough up the money for a good estate attorney who handles wills and trusts. Prenups are for amateurs. Your gf is right, btw, you should have brought this up Before proposing. Your mother is right for suggesting you protect family assets but she is not an attorney and was in error suggesting a prenup. You need a bullet/divorce proof portfolio, not a useless prenup.

We live together in my flat which I purchased when we first met. my mum asked me to get a prenup signed to protect her property as this is her security and home.She believes I should have brought this up before the wedding.

[Jibralta]

Then if the mortgage is done in three years, why not just pay part of mom's mortgage for three years as a favor? No mess that way. Or help mom refinance the mortgage -- Let's say the mortgage is $1500 per month - refinance it for more years at a monthly rate she can afford and put money on the principle when you can. You are making a mountain out of a molehill if mom only needs help for 3 years.

 

I agree. If your motive is to protect you mom's security and home, simply make the payments for her until the mortgage is paid. That way, you wouldn't need a prenup to protect it, and you'd also avoid any additional costs associated with transferring property ownership.

[Seraphim]

And I think that is girl is upset you are putting your mom’s financial interests ahead of your interests as a couple. She could be wondering too how many times you’re gonna listen to mom in important life decisions. She could be wondering if your mom is going to control her life by yanking on your heartstrings.

[Danmarko]

I may not have experienced divorce in my own relationship but my parents are divorced and my mom has been divorced twice and married three times . Believe me I hold no illusions ,however I’m not a pessimist either . I don’t believe what happened with my parents is my destiny . I’ve been with my husband for 31 years and married for 26 of them. I know a lot of relationships that have lasted until death .

 

And I think that is girl is upset you are putting your mom’s financial interests ahead of your interests as a couple. She could be wondering too how many times you’re gonna listen to mom in important life decisions. She could be wondering if your mom is going to control her life by yanking on your heartstrings.

Seraphim he's only looking out for his mothers interests with regard to her flat. Naturally she's every right to feel cautious about her sons partner/possible wife who knows what the future holds for them. She doesn't want some stranger taking half or more of her property. The last property I bought in 2005 with my now ex wife for £500K my solicitor suggested investing £50k from a my autistic brothers trust fund instead of having a small mortgage of £50K which we did. When we split in 2009 she wanted a 50/50 split of that £50K on top of her 60% share of the estate all fuelled by greed and a father in law that fancied a trip to the USA and a new car. I wish I had made arrangements to protect myself more. It happens...

[Seraphim]

Seraphim he's only looking out for his mothers interests with regard to her flat. Naturally she's every right to feel cautious about her sons partner/possible wife who knows what the future holds for them. She doesn't want some stranger taking half or more of her property. The last property I bought in 2005 with my now ex wife for £500K my solicitor suggested investing £50k from a my autistic brothers trust fund instead of having a small mortgage of £50K which we did. When we split in 2009 she wanted a 50/50 split of that £50K on top of her 60% share of the estate all fuelled by greed and a father in law that fancied a trip to the USA and a new car. I wish I had made arrangements to protect myself more. It happens...

I know it does. My mom got zip both times. My dad had nothing to give her and didn’t even pay his child support 90% of the time. And my first step father his ahole brother stole everything out of their house while he was drunk and grieving. They divorced after not seeing each other for 20 years . Neither claimed anything from the other. His offer was if she signed off his pension he would pay for the divorce and that’s how it went . Now she has been married to my current stepfather for almost 26 years they married the same year I did .

[jimthzz]

Clearly, people have strong emotions about prenups.

 

The wording of the the thing can take into account protecting your mother. And, address how after her passing and if still married, your future wife is added to the financial interest in the property as a full partner.

 

Somehow you need a better conversation with your GF about this. Have specifics drawn up, not a vague discussion.

[tattoobunnie]

If you die, the prenup is invalid. Your mom could still lose the house. I'd just help your mom refinance the house, this way, she can leave it to you in her own will.

 

And btw, you can't bring up a prenup if you aren't talking about marriage - that is actually a bit insulting. Like the thought of marrying this person doesn't ever cross your mind, but her putting your mom out on the streets does...always use honey to catch flies.

[ninjabib]

As someone else in the UK I would almost certainly agree on a pre-nup if you are solely buying the house. If shes not putting a penny in why should she get a penny out? The law is heavily weight against males in the UK when it comes to breakups. I would tread carefully.

 

 

If you have no pre-nup and split up she WILL take half or be awarded half of something she never paid into.

 

 

Is there no other way around this?

[abitbroken]

I agree. If your motive is to protect you mom's security and home, simply make the payments for her until the mortgage is paid. That way, you wouldn't need a prenup to protect it, and you'd also avoid any additional costs associated with transferring property ownership.

 

In my area, if say mom bought the house when it was $10,000, and now its worth $1.2 million, mom is paying property taxes on the house that is $10,000 with modest increases every year versus on $1.2 million. if he buys the house, even at the cheap "buying from a relative below market rate, he is going to pay a VERY HIGH amount of property tax plus closing costs and everything else. I don't think he realizes its not as simple as mom transferring the house into his name and him taking over the mortgage payments

[abitbroken]

As someone else in the UK I would almost certainly agree on a pre-nup if you are solely buying the house. If shes not putting a penny in why should she get a penny out? The law is heavily weight against males in the UK when it comes to breakups. I would tread carefully.

 

 

If you have no pre-nup and split up she WILL take half or be awarded half of something she never paid into.

 

 

Is there no other way around this?

 

But why can't he just pay his mom's mortgage for the next three years --- then get married after or during that time. Unless mom is 98, he won't inherit the mom's house for year's to come. Or mom refinances the mortgage to pay a much smaller amount for longer. Or does mom need a $1.2 million dollar flat? can't she sell it, buy a pretty little modest place with a bedroom and a guest room and live off the rest? Oh, then he won't get an INHERITANCE. really, so what? I rather marry the person i love with no encumberments. (and trust me, if that flat is $1.2 now, the market could tank, the property could fall in disrepair if i understand what a flat is (like in America a town house or condo attached to other units) , or once you deduct mom's expenses and pay taxes its not going to be that much. But if they do divorce and mom's alive there are is zero for the wife to be awarded because mom owns the house.

 

If she was divorced 13 years ago, she is not a woman who is bouncing from man to man for their money.

 

Anyway, i rest my case. I would run away if a man "prepared for divorce". If we married after meeting 2 weeks ago, sure, but if we have been together for a number of years and were not young kids, i would look elsewhere.

[ninjabib]

Why take the chance? Evidence shows most marriages fall apart with a few years these days. Sad but true.

 

I'm not saying the OP partner is a money grabber, i don't know her but why wouldn't she want to contribute towards the house mortgage and then shes got half herself. The OP also has half which keeps his mom homed regardless. A great investment for the OP girlfriend.

 

Property in the UK will not tank for a sustained period ever. For a year maybe but it will bounce back with a fury. We have too little land and too many people. This gap is only ever growing bigger and bigger. Land is a very very high premium here.

 

 

I think the OP is saying his mom is divorced 13 years noit his GF but he can correct one of us on that.

[Jibralta]

Ajns26 said he wanted to make sure his mom had a place to live. Why doesn't he just help her make the payments?

[ninjabib]

I actually missed the OP's post atr the bottom of the first page saying he's going to take the property in his name and get his mom to claim the 'rent' so the government pays her mortgage off for him. That is low, this country is too lax. OP might not be doing anything illegal but make no mistake he's stealing off the taxpayer.

[abitbroken]

Why take the chance? Evidence shows most marriages fall apart with a few years these days. Sad but true.

 

I'm not saying the OP partner is a money grabber, i don't know her but why wouldn't she want to contribute towards the house mortgage and then shes got half herself. The OP also has half which keeps his mom homed regardless. A great investment for the OP girlfriend.

 

Property in the UK will not tank for a sustained period ever. For a year maybe but it will bounce back with a fury. We have too little land and too many people. This gap is only ever growing bigger and bigger. Land is a very very high premium here.

 

 

I think the OP is saying his mom is divorced 13 years noit his GF but he can correct one of us on that.

 

No one said she wouldn't want to contribute to the home she lives in with him. But he is insistent that he wants to protect mom's home from his future wife, so there is no way, no how the girlfriend should contribute a penny toward's mom's house.

 

What i mean is, get married after mom's house is paid off because then its a closed chapter. Don't buy mom's house. If the mortgage is all paid, mom doesn't have a house payment.

 

But really -- my parents lived in a pricey house (wasn't pricey in the beginning but the area became desirable). Years after we all moved out and dad retired, they sold it and bought a smaller house in a slightly different area that was less expensive than what the first house sold for. Even though they planned for retirement, the profit definitely gives peace of mind should anything ever happen. And things did.

[Jibralta]

Right, this isn't just about 'helping his mom.' He's taking advantage of a situation and doesn't want his girlfriend to be able to take advantage of him! LOL!!!!

[ninjabib]

Ajns26 said he wanted to make sure his mom had a place to live. Why doesn't he just help her make the payments?

 

 

I don't see why OP's mother isn't making her own payments as she already has money saved according to him. Seems they have just found a loophole to screw the taxpayer over and get her mortgage paid off by the general public while growing their wealth.

[Jibralta]

(see my post #46 above)

[ninjabib]

This whole thing is just a scam/cash grab. I wish you no luck OP.

 

Jibralta i agree. This isn't a genuine predicament it's a con between OP and his mother.

[ninjabib]

No one said she wouldn't want to contribute to the home she lives in with him. But he is insistent that he wants to protect mom's home from his future wife, so there is no way, no how the girlfriend should contribute a penny toward's mom's house.

 

What i mean is, get married after mom's house is paid off because then its a closed chapter. Don't buy mom's house. If the mortgage is all paid, mom doesn't have a house payment.

 

But really -- my parents lived in a pricey house (wasn't pricey in the beginning but the area became desirable). Years after we all moved out and dad retired, they sold it and bought a smaller house in a slightly different area that was less expensive than what the first house sold for. Even though they planned for retirement, the profit definitely gives peace of mind should anything ever happen. And things did.

 

 

We now know why the mother won't pay her own mortgage off or downgrade to a more modest home. She's going to 'sell' it to her son and claim welfare so us taxpayers pay his moms rent which she then hands to him to pay the mortgage. She's got a mortgage free home and he's got a big inheritance.

 

I despise how soft my country is.