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Did you move in with her? Do you have another way to support yourself? Did you read the forum rules specifically item #14 : https://www.enotalone.com/forum/forum-rules.php

 

Yes I moved in with her.

 

Financially I'm not dependent on her in any way, we're both working and able to save up. I'm currently bearing most of the household expenses.

 

Actually I'm begging her that we move out as I hate it here, but she is anxious about her mom, which is not independent, knows a little language and avoids doing things like using the ATM. We managed the mom to get to use the train last year, which was a win.

It actually makes me angry wasting my time on infantile grown up people, but there, I'm trying to find a way to make things work.

 

There was a year that I managed to move me and her to separate apartment I rented, but she was depressed and anxious so we moved back to their house to ease on her.

 

When I think of it, I should engage her more about why she thinks her mom won't make it alone...

 

Rule 14 - What can I do, I come from a religious background and it's part of my thinking.

I'm not posting it as a matter of debate or trolling, this is a real circumstance (though I see my thinking may seem ridiculous).

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You seem to realize what she is doing here. I don't think she has any malicious intention, but she's planting all these seeds of doubt because she's desperate to hang on to you. She hopes that that this will buy her some time and make you change your mind. It's not really working if you've been in therapy for three years trying to convince yourself to stay. This split brain, as you describe it, stems from trying to force yourself to do something you don't want to do, which is continue the relationship.

 

We can't decide for you, ultimately. I personally disagree with the notion that ending a very unhappy relationship is somehow cowardly, nor do I agree with the definition of unconditional love you have questioned in this thread. But, that's up to you. Everyone's priorities and limits are different. This situation sure wouldn't work for me, is all I can really say. I have never regretted walking away from one particular relationship in which I was unhappy, and had been for some time. I had thought about breaking up for a long time, and knew that the right choice for me was to end it. It hurt him a lot, and I felt guilty for that for a long while, but I never questioned my ability to have happier and more fulfilling relationships in the future. And I was right.

 

A question about your own background, just for some more context: have you had relationships before this one? If so, how did those end?

 

In thins answer I meant "she" as the therapist, in reply to your question about what therapist is saying.

 

But you're right that my partner is desperate and in the habit of buying time. I'm trying to understand what it is exactly that I "don't want" about the relationship, and how to mitigate this...

 

As I said before, I had one significant relationship, and we had disagreements and arguments, and ultimately the ex decided to break up. The funny thing is that I came to conclusion that the ex was right about much of the issue, we just had bad communication.

 

I the current relationship we don't have much arguments because when I come up with something, she agrees to everything, or goes on an shifts the talk to her anxieties, and then I get sort of validation that I support a person in a hardship and tell her that we'll get this right...

 

I guess I'm a bit codependent if I think of it, with her and her mom anxieties as the issues of our dependence.

 

Sort of, I imagine if I was with a person who is substance abusing and promises to change and give them a chance, I would also have a hard time letting this person down...

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I believe I still didn't declare her unworthy of my love, I guess I try to "love" her (or whatever I'm able to muster up in this regard) and it's hard, so I contemplate what I can do about it. It seems to me when I announce her we split - that's the point I declare her unworthy of my love...

 

My actual problem is if we split up and then I engage in another relationship that I feel is disposable, I suppose I will feel bad and cynical about it from the outset, so it will be even worse.

 

To me it's somewhat like asking (I'm exaggerating) "Suppose you can kill an old lady with an axe and nobody will know. Saying it's bad is just theoritizing, what's the actual problem you're having?"

 

You've still avoided answering the question: What is the actual problem(s) that you are having?

 

An ax is not the only solution to a problem.

 

And I think you've missed the point of the first part of what I wrote. I'm merely pointing out that "worthiness" is a condition for your love. It doesn't matter whether you've decided whether she's worthy or unworthy. The fact that such a decision determines whether you stay together or split makes your love conditional.

 

You're just beating around the bush.

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Yeah thanks :) No I didn't yet, I'll put it on my list. Maybe watch it together with her.

I remember reading it and just having tears running...

 

But then, I find myself hesitating.

And I'm afraid that I commit and then end up hurting her and our (future) children (that will result from commitment) even more if I decide I'm too weak...

Or succumb deeper to some neurosis like this anxiety thing...

 

I just need to get done with this "split brain" attitude, it's killing me.

 

I think I understand your belief system, from what you've explained.

 

I can see how paralyzing this can be. You basically are following a life plan that never allows for a misstep, nor are you allowed to change anything you don't like, you must endure until it changes for you.

 

I just don't beleive that is how life is meant to be. I mean where does it end? Can you not cut your hair because it is choosing to grow? Can you not jump out of the way of a car because you are in its path? Can you not take medicine because you must suffer through a cold? Are you only responsible to endure whatever happens?

 

But your comment above, makes a good point, about continuing being more hurtful than stopping. Why would CHOOSE to marry someone you have not been happy with for 3 years? What would you do if the situation was reversed? Why would you want to bring chikdren into this?

 

Would you raise them with this same thought process, knowing how much pain this is causing you?

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You've still avoided answering the question: What is the actual problem(s) that you are having?

 

An ax is not the only solution to a problem.

 

And I think you've missed the point of the first part of what I wrote. I'm merely pointing out that "worthiness" is a condition for your love. It doesn't matter whether you've decided whether she's worthy or unworthy. The fact that such a decision determines whether you stay together or split makes your love conditional.

 

You're just beating around the bush.

 

I like your thinking.

 

I am able to declare some people "unworthy" - there was some swift relationship I got away from as fast as I can, but the person there was so completely out of my ability to cope with that I had no second thoughts.

I think the only condition on the love I am ready to accept is inability to cope with the person without incurring irreversible psychological or physical damage.

But here the person is seemingly within my ability to cope with, so the question stands.

 

Actual problem is doing the wrong thing and selfishly hurting a person, and then living with this consciousness.

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Why don't you move out? You are stressed by your gf and her elderly mother.

Yes I moved in with her. I'm begging her that we move out as I hate it here, but she is anxious about her mom, which is not independent. we're both working and able to save up. It actually makes me angry wasting my time on infantile grown up people
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You say you felt guilty.

But can you be happy and guilty in the same time?

 

In my experience, yes.

 

I felt guilt for hurting him. But I was happy the relationship was over. I knew the guilt wouldn't last forever, nor that guilt would a good reason to stay with someone.

 

That was nearly 20 years ago now, and we have both long since moved on.

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I think I understand your belief system, from what you've explained.

 

I can see how paralyzing this can be. You basically are following a life plan that never allows for a misstep, nor are you allowed to change anything you don't like, you must endure until it changes for you.

 

I just don't beleive that is how life is meant to be. I mean where does it end? Can you not cut your hair because it is choosing to grow? Can you not jump out of the way of a car because you are in its path? Can you not take medicine because you must suffer through a cold? Are you only responsible to endure whatever happens?

 

But your comment above, makes a good point, about continuing being more hurtful than stopping. Why would CHOOSE to marry someone you have not been happy with for 3 years? What would you do if the situation was reversed? Why would you want to bring chikdren into this?

 

Would you raise them with this same thought process, knowing how much pain this is causing you?

 

 

I mean where does it end? - very good question. I feel justified about leaving something when either this challenge is overcomed, or I decide it causes irreversible damage - something like "if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger".

The car obviously kills, and the hair - i can endure long hair, so it's not a problem to cut it. If long hair was inendurable for me, I would feel guilty cutting it, and would expect from myself to learn to endure it.

I don't take medicine for cold, I just let it pass by itself, but I do take other medicine, because not taking it causes damage.

How do we grow if not enduring challenges...

 

Maybe I selfishly do her a misservice by seeing the relationship as my challenge, but she seems to want it...

 

That's why I'm not ready for children - I don't see how can I teach them be happy adults, if my thinking is so twisted. But I also don't want to teach them be selfish adults with "just do it" attitude to hurting people...

 

Never allowing for a misstep - interesting concept. I need to think about it. My thinking was that it's better to do nothing than to do a possible misstep (well maybe it's called to be a coward), but maybe sometimes the latter is more preferable to the former.

 

Yeah, it seems that by not allowing for a possibility of a misstep, I am doing a disservice to both of us.

It's just a slippery slope - allowing yourself too much possible missteps hoping that they will turn right in the end... It's not how you get to something good - by doing missteps.

 

Need to think of it. Thanks.

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Do you see/talk to a doctor/therapist regularly? Do you take appropriate medication for mental health, mood or thought disorders?

I just need to get done with this "split brain" attitude, it's killing me. I do take other medicine, because not taking it causes damage.
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Why don't you move out? You are stressed by your gf and her elderly mother.

.

Actually, yes, it's a good point. I think I need to take this practical step and then see what happens.

 

Maybe it will break the vicious cycle.

 

Thanks.

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Ultimately this is something none of us here can help you with. You are so deep in therapy regarding this matter and that is not helping. You are stuck in your core belief system. I would change therapist though. Asking you to think more when that is your problem is not going to help.

 

All I can say is its not evil to end a relationship, you can be as polite and kind as possible. Yes it will hurt but that's part of life.

 

Do you think its more evil to stay unhappy in a relationship and keeping someone chained to you rather than letting her go and finding someone that really loves her and could make her much more happy?

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How do we grow if not enduring challenges...

 

 

We don't grow by the enduring. We grow by through our ability to overcome challenges.

 

Does a person grow from being beaten down and whatever the cause just magically changes?

 

No! If my partner beats me and then they die, The beating has stopped but I have not changed. I accept beatings as part of life.

 

If my partner nurtures my every need and they die, the care has stopped but I have not changed. I will not know how to care for myself.

 

My point is, its not just negative or positive expereinces that impede growth.

 

In those same scenarios...

 

If i hit my partner back and leave them, I have grown strong and in taking better care of myself to start on a path for a better life.

 

If I take equal care of my partner and myself, I grow to do things for myself and others.

 

Your blanket approach to life is in some ways protecting you and in some ways hurting you. And thats the truth. You have set up a dynamic that doesn't require you to use your mind and feelings to create balance and judgment.

 

You have not developed those skills because you see things so absolute, there are no alternative perspectives and there for no responsibility or anything required of you.

 

Do you even know who you are? What you actually like? What your true strengths and abilities are?

 

What challenges have you overcome? And not ones that just changed on their own?

 

Do you see the difference?

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I like your thinking.

 

I am able to declare some people "unworthy" - there was some swift relationship I got away from as fast as I can, but the person there was so completely out of my ability to cope with that I had no second thoughts.

I think the only condition on the love I am ready to accept is inability to cope with the person without incurring irreversible psychological or physical damage.

But here the person is seemingly within my ability to cope with, so the question stands.

 

Actual problem is doing the wrong thing and selfishly hurting a person, and then living with this consciousness.

 

I personally don't believe that love should be unconditional.

 

If I understand correctly, your partner is selfishly hurting you by doing the wrong thing.

 

Loving someone does not mean that you become a doormat. You have to love yourself, too.

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user0x24,

 

Don't over dramatize this unnecessarily. Be honest, tell her the truth, keep it brief, break up so both of you can move on in your life in a healthy manner. Don't drag this out by ruminating over this which is a waste of your time and energy.

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There is nothing positive or "noble" about being a martyr.

 

Staying in a relationship and "suffering" only makes you look weak, it also show that you do not value yourself very much.

Edited by Hollyj
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If my love were unconditional, then I would stay with a partner no matter what he did. This means staying if he were abusive, a cheater, addict, criminal etc.... No way, I value myself to much to love a partner unconditionally. If there is "real love" people treat each other with love, respect and honesty.

 

There is nothing redeeming by being a doormat.

Edited by Hollyj
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  • 4 weeks later...

I got some thought that sort of makes my heart a bit easier.

 

In my world, there should be no people who are caused hurt undeservingly.

 

If she is hurt by me breaking me up with her, with no her bad intention, it was caused by my mistake.

 

That means, by that I am making someone to take hurt for my mistake, which is wrong.

 

To right this wrong, I should pay for my mistake.

 

At least I can formulate why I feel it's wrong that makes sense to me.

 

I don't know if all the pain I endured up to know can be counted as payment for the mistake, or should it include staying with her for as long as she wants it...

 

Knowing the problem is a half way to solution, now I know I can just come up with the right amount of retribution.

 

 

Do you even know who you are? What you actually like? What your true strengths and abilities are?

What challenges have you overcome? And not ones that just changed on their own?

 

I don't know... I know I'm a conflict coward and people pleaser, and I do some experiments to overcome it, which leave me with even more questions.

 

I could be more sure that being assertive in a conflict and making a mistake and hurt other people is worth it if I could have a way to repay for it.

 

Maybe saying sorry is all what really needed...

 

I don't really mind people really saying sorry and am mostly letting go of anger for them, except for people that say "sorry" as "I don't care hurting you, it's not my business", and are not sorry at all.

These people I hate and am a bit obsessed to make them really sorry.

I wouldn't want to have someone obsessed to make me that sorry for some mistake I did to them.

 

All I ever wanted is to have some peace with myself and not feel guilty, and was ready to go for great lengths to make it happen.

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