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Pattern of disrespect and lying


miasari
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It is so disrespectful-to me and women in general. For a while I was telling myself that he is more or less expressing a mentality that is common in all men, and justifying it as an outlet, etc. But the fact is that it is seriously affecting my mental state. I was really trying to be strong and more or less gloss over it for the sake of our daughter, but the other day, my therapist asked what I would say if my daughter asked me this same question, and my response was more or less GTFO of there, so why am I not modeling that?

 

Would you want your daughter to be in a relationship like this?

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I definitely see what you are saying, but I don't even think marriage is commitment, otherwise there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate and so many married people cheating. Commitment is a mindset as well as a promise both people keep and make every single day. I think that for many, marriage is symbolic of that, but for many others, it's just what you do, and an excuse to throw a party and be the center of attention, without any real thought to the day in and day out commitment and work it takes. Regardless, I think you're onto something about 'like attracting like' and that my nonchalance about it all probably made it seem more permissible or excusable. He has never been very good at committing to anything his whole life-a place to live, a job, so it really shouldn't have come as such as surprise reflecting on it now.

 

More than 50% of non marriage relationships break up.

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Excellent. You have leverage, even if you don't exit at this time. Your therapist is correct. Next time ask about gaslighting and discounting and minimizing. Google these terms.

 

Dismissing your concerns is along the same disrespect continuum as his extracurricular activities, hiding, sneaking lying, etc. Penetration of another does not have to happen for all these other toxic dynamics to be disconcerting.

 

Take some time off from this relationship. Visit family and friends. Crazy-making like this is hard to see within the fog of it. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not, those are moralizing judgments. Focus on the here and now. Follow through with the guidance of your therapist.

I did get tested for STDs, and started seeing a therapist. I also work. I can also try to find a better job, as I am educated.
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I definitely see what you are saying, but I don't even think marriage is commitment, otherwise there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate and so many married people cheating. Commitment is a mindset as well as a promise both people keep and make every single day. I think that for many, marriage is symbolic of that, but for many others, it's just what you do, and an excuse to throw a party and be the center of attention, without any real thought to the day in and day out commitment and work it takes. Regardless, I think you're onto something about 'like attracting like' and that my nonchalance about it all probably made it seem more permissible or excusable. He has never been very good at committing to anything his whole life-a place to live, a job, so it really shouldn't have come as such as surprise reflecting on it now.
I think you're justifying him being a bad partner and confusing a wedding with a marriage.

 

While I'm sure people marry for the attention and all that you said, its all semantics, because whatever you call it, what is his commitment to you?

 

At the basic level, a marriage is a promise and a contract. You planned for a baby, but did you plan for the relationship?

 

The formality of the ceremony, makes the commitment clear...

 

Aside my personal opinion, of marriage, I feel like maybe you are right - you are seeing him in his true light and its a huge turn off.

 

As others have said, draw your line in the sand and prepare to walk, if doesn't respond.

 

It is gross the way he's acting and I'd be worried this is just the beginning....

 

There are men that follow that "boys will be boys" line, but not all.... And just cause it works for them, doesn't make it work for you.

 

The scary part is, I'm not sure this line of thought can really be changed. One's thought process, is just that.

 

And if he is surrounded by guys that basically never outgrew the "lets rate women for fun" mentality, he's got no motivation or outlet to change. If there were better men around, maybe he'd have a chance... but there is truth to the saying- look at the 4 closest people to him.... that's who he is.. .

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I definitely see what you are saying, but I don't even think marriage is commitment, otherwise there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate and so many married people cheating. Commitment is a mindset as well as a promise both people keep and make every single day. I think that for many, marriage is symbolic of that, but for many others, it's just what you do, and an excuse to throw a party and be the center of attention, without any real thought to the day in and day out commitment and work it takes. Regardless, I think you're onto something about 'like attracting like' and that my nonchalance about it all probably made it seem more permissible or excusable. He has never been very good at committing to anything his whole life-a place to live, a job, so it really shouldn't have come as such as surprise reflecting on it now.

 

Why do you think living together is better just because your parents were married and divorced. You still have to go through all of the emotional and practical turmoil when living together and the relationship breaks up as you do when you are married and the relationship breaks up.

 

Your relationship lacks respect, trust, happiness, boundaries, admiration of one another et al. All the things that a marriage of license or common law should have. If you're afraid to leave because of your daughter the suggest marriage counseling and have a plan to talk about all the things that are missing in your 'marriage' so that you can a least explain to him so he gets it that what he does with his addiction to the attention of other woman makes you feel like chit, makes you resent him, makes you unhappy and if it's 'just talk' then why does he have an addiction to doing it, why he can't just stop knowing what it does to you. If he won't go... then you will know he admires his addiction more than you and you will get the confidence to take action and do what you need to do to leave the situation without guilt.

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And if he is surrounded by guys that basically never outgrew the "lets rate women for fun" mentality, he's got no motivation or outlet to change. If there were better men around, maybe he'd have a chance... but there is truth to the saying- look at the 4 closest people to him.... that's who he is.. .

 

 

Honestly this has been one of the most infuriating aspects. He is obviously only saying this stuff to friends he knows will go along with it, and one of them is someone we both hang out with, our kids hang out. Where is the integrity and balls to be like, dude what the hell are you saying? I know there are certain friends he wouldn't say this stuff to because he knows they'd think it was inappropriate. You are so right, and I really feel like being near his friends like this has only made things worse.

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And if he is surrounded by guys that basically never outgrew the "lets rate women for fun" mentality, he's got no motivation or outlet to change. If there were better men around, maybe he'd have a chance... but there is truth to the saying- look at the 4 closest people to him.... that's who he is.. .

 

 

 

Good Lord, stop making excuses for this guy.

 

Does this also apply to the emotional affair he had with the woman? You need to wake up.

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I honestly do feel like I've been in some kind of daze for the last few years, making excuses and justifying ty behavior.

 

PS How are you guys getting those text boxes in your replies where you're able to comment on specific parts?

 

Reply with quote button.

 

"Staying together for the kid (s)" is a lovely idea in theory but almost always a terrible one in practice. The kids ALWAYS know. Kids are smart.

 

Imagine explaining to Daughter "Daddy doesn't physically cheat, he just messages other women and talks about what it might be like to have sex with them with his friends. It's ok, really!!"

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This man is not in love with you, and has been looking for sex with other women for a long time. What does that tell you about his true feelings for you? They aren't really there, and neither is any basic respect.

 

And no, it's not normal for men to do this. I see that you now recognize that you've been playing mental gymnastics with yourself trying to convince yourself that it's just something guys do. When we do this, it's usually a misguided protective measure to shield ourselves from the pain of confronting the truth - which in your case is that your partner isn't invested in you or your relationship anymore.

 

I personally don't think this one is salvageable. The damage done is too significant for you to ever really feel secure, happy and loved by him. He doesn't care enough to take any accountability for it, but you also can't ignore the evidence of a dead relationship when it's staring you in the face like this.

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I'm getting a vibe that you already have one foot out the door, which btw is a smart move, (imo). Having said that, he's clearly demonstrated what he's made of, therefore what more is there to see/know etc?

 

Also, my guess is, he'll simply find better ways to cover his tracks along with his lies. In short, I hope you find your way...

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Yes, I already have one foot out the door. We have been discussing how we will split the profit from the sale of the house, where we will go, how we will make it work financially, etc. I've just been having doubts about my decision because I've been letting the positive aspects of his character overshadow the negative, but those things don't excuse his overall disrespect towards me. It's true, that he clearly demonstrates he does not love me anymore, and this isn't the only realm where I've seen this. Though he shows dedication to our daughter, his dedication to me is eroded, and in turn, my own self esteem and trust has also been ground down. When I take this simple fact into account, it seems obvious that it can't continue without such a shaky base. Part of me was thinking that I had to work on my inability to trust him, but he hasn't really done a good job of re-establishing trust after that initial up with his ex.

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Though he shows dedication to our daughter, his dedication to me is eroded, and in turn, my own self esteem and trust has also been ground down.

 

See, I can't agree with this sentiment entirely.

 

Total dedication to your daughter would also entail not putting her mother in so much distress and consequently upsetting the family dynamic to the extent that it implodes. Total dedication to your daughter would involve modelling respectful behaviour towards you so she grows up with a healthy idea of what a loving partner and family look like. Total devotion to her is not what you have here, when we think of how damaging his behaviour is to the family life you have attempted to build for her.

 

He's been outwardly disrespecting you for years. And while it doesn't appear immediately obvious or overt, he is therefore also gravely disrespecting his own daughter too.

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See, I can't agree with this sentiment entirely.

 

Total dedication to your daughter would also entail not putting her mother in so much distress and consequently upsetting the family dynamic to the extent that it implodes. Total dedication to your daughter would involve modelling respectful behaviour towards you so she grows up with a healthy idea of what a loving partner and family look like. Total devotion to her is not what you have here, when we think of how damaging his behaviour is to the family life you have attempted to build for her.

 

He's been outwardly disrespecting you for years. And while it doesn't appear immediately obvious or overt, he is therefore also gravely disrespecting his own daughter too.

 

YUP!!!!!!!!!!

 

OP, I have asked you twice if you would want your daughter to have this type of relationship, yet you will not answer?

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Hey HollyJ-Yeah my therapist asked me this the other day. What I would say if a friend presented this problem to me, but I began thinking about it in terms of our daughter too. And, as someone else mentioned, providing advice is easier said then done, I would definitely be like RED FLAG GTFO. And yet... Here I am. I'm just acknowledging a pattern of settling and denial of my own thoughts and feelings for the first time in my life. I've been holding it together for the hopes of stability, and especially because I wanted to create something I didn't have growing up. But as she gets older, she'll see right through it, and I don't want to model that for her.

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Hey HollyJ-Yeah my therapist asked me this the other day. What I would say if a friend presented this problem to me, but I began thinking about it in terms of our daughter too. And, as someone else mentioned, providing advice is easier said then done, I would definitely be like RED FLAG GTFO. And yet... Here I am. I'm just acknowledging a pattern of settling and denial of my own thoughts and feelings for the first time in my life. I've been holding it together for the hopes of stability, and especially because I wanted to create something I didn't have growing up. But as she gets older, she'll see right through it, and I don't want to model that for her.

 

I understand the devastation. My parents were divorced. My mom has been married three times. My brother and I never wanted that for our respective kids. Yet after 20 years of marriage my brother left his cheating wife.

 

I have been lucky enough to be with my husband 30 years.

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Parents often unintentionally do a disservice to their children when they attempt a "re-do" of their own childhood through their children. Instead of focusing on trying to give them the opposite of what you experienced, how about focusing on just being a good, secure, loving and supportive parent?

 

Trying hard to keep your child in a so called "unbroken " home can do more damage than having her grow up in two separate but loving and peaceful homes.

 

I wish my parents had split up years before they actually did. My home life was miserable because it was obvious they couldn't stand one another. It was awful.

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I think you know what you have to do but don't want to face it because it will be hard and painful. Trust me staying with him will be more painful in the long run.

 

Don't leave the house just yet since you are in no physical danger from him. Be smart and plan the end to this relationship on your terms. That means making sure his name is on the birth certificate, you get help figuring out how to get child support, start looking for a new place or city to live and take really good care of yourself physically and emotionally.

 

These things are always so hard to start but once you get the going I think you will feel better knowing there will be a resolution.

 

He is not the man you thought he was and he is not willing to become any sort of man you could trust. I am sorry

 

PS All men do not talk like he does even to friends privately. I know I don't and my friends do not either.

 

Lost

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Damn you're right. This is not dedication to our daughter at all because now this is going to disrupt her life completely.

 

correction....you disrupted her life by not created a stable foundation for her to come into the world. instead, you chose some swamp land and tried to back fill it to build your foundation. If you really really really wanted a baby and felt your clock was ticking, you could have adopted as a single mom, etc, or something., you could have decided to not have a child because it fit in wth your noncommittal lifestyle or you could have unpacked your baggage and figured out why you reject stability -- whether that means to get to know older couples with stable, long marriages, to go to counseling or whatever so you are not creating another victim, and why you are attracted to guys like this.

 

I definitely see what you are saying, but I don't even think marriage is commitment, otherwise there wouldn't be a 50% divorce rate and so many married people cheating. Commitment is a mindset as well as a promise both people keep and make every single day. I think that for many, marriage is symbolic of that, but for many others, it's just what you do, and an excuse to throw a party and be the center of attention, without any real thought to the day in and day out commitment and work it takes. Regardless, I think you're onto something about 'like attracting like' and that my nonchalance about it all probably made it seem more permissible or excusable. He has never been very good at committing to anything his whole life-a place to live, a job, so it really shouldn't have come as such as surprise reflecting on it now.

 

why did you want to have a baby with this man considering his track record? for someone who doesn't want to commit - you made a lifetime commitment to a child and chose a crappy guy to help you make that a reality. he may be "good with" the kid, but will he follow through with the relationship as a father when the child is not in front of him? And he has to drive in the car?

 

you don't "THINK" marriage is a commitment -- well the billions of people who actually married would not agree.

 

That divorce statistic is actually proven wrong and has been debunked. let's say there are 20 marriages registered in a town that year and 10 divorces registered. Half of the marriages end in divorce? Not even close. Because the people who married in preceding years and still remain married were not counted in the statistic. There are several very detailed articles about this very inaccuracy. Actually, people staying married is on the rise since the 90s. Part of it is thought to have to do with people marrying slightly later (not marrying right out of high school) and being more financially established. But there are other factors as well. the people that have been married not just one, but 10+ or 25+ years is now on the rise. The largest percentage of divorces are people that are below the poverty line.

 

marriage is not a symbol of commitment -- a ring is. When you get married, you pledge your vows.

 

I think you have a lot to unpack for the sake of your daughter -- and to go forward to not bring other losers into your life, show her what a strong, confident women who can have healthy relationships looks like, etc. and how to have ones herself. If you don't want to get married ---- then choose a single life. That's perfectly fine and honorable as well

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Parents often unintentionally do a disservice to their children when they attempt a "re-do" of their own childhood through their children. Instead of focusing on trying to give them the opposite of what you experienced, how about focusing on just being a good, secure, loving and supportive parent?

 

Trying hard to keep your child in a so called "unbroken " home can do more damage than having her grow up in two separate but loving and peaceful homes.

 

I wish my parents had split up years before they actually did. My home life was miserable because it was obvious they couldn't stand one another. It was awful.

 

So, she is doing the opposite by actually splitting up with her kids' dad when the opposite really would be stability -

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So, she is doing the opposite by actually splitting up with her kids' dad when the opposite really would be stability -

 

I don't see that his behavior is consistent with a "stable " parent or home.

 

Stability can be created in two homes. It doesn't require the parents to stay together no matter what.

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Hey HollyJ-Yeah my therapist asked me this the other day. What I would say if a friend presented this problem to me, but I began thinking about it in terms of our daughter too. And, as someone else mentioned, providing advice is easier said then done, I would definitely be like RED FLAG GTFO. And yet... Here I am. I'm just acknowledging a pattern of settling and denial of my own thoughts and feelings for the first time in my life. I've been holding it together for the hopes of stability, and especially because I wanted to create something I didn't have growing up. But as she gets older, she'll see right through it, and I don't want to model that for her.

 

This is the opposite of stability for your child.

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