Can we improve “physical chemistry“?

[Batya33]

It sounds like the comparison was an a ha moment for you!

 

Do you need someone who is comfortable in the bedroom with a near stranger or would you be willing to wait to get to know the person outside the bedroom -I mean sure, kissing, making out, being sexual -but waiting for intercourse until she is comfortable being an active participant. Some people need that emotional closeness, familiarity, knowledge of the person, love (yes, actual love) to be an active and open participant during sex.

[dmveep]

It sounds like the comparison was an a ha moment for you!

 

Do you need someone who is comfortable in the bedroom with a near stranger or would you be willing to wait to get to know the person outside the bedroom -I mean sure, kissing, making out, being sexual -but waiting for intercourse until she is comfortable being an active participant. Some people need that emotional closeness, familiarity, knowledge of the person, love (yes, actual love) to be an active and open participant during sex.

 

Yes, definitely. I prefer to build more of a comfort level before getting sexual. I didn't expect or necessarily want things to escalate to that level. She later told me that she wanted sex on date two, so perhaps I didn't really initiated that so much once things got going. I'm not 100% sure it would have mattered if we waited though. Like I described earlier, a nearly identical situation occurred a few years before after six weeks of dating where we were compatible and had physical attraction, but things were just clunky with kissing/sex. I really was hard on myself then and never looked at it clearly until this morning. I always thought they just thought I was a bad lover and were trying to be nice. However, I guess it really does take two to tango.

 

My only problem is I never seem to find anyone who is compatible, attractive, and have great chemistry. I often find two of three, but pretty much never the trifecto.

 

Do you think its possible that chemistry could develop over time with the slow fader? Its just hard to imagine this moving forward with her passive nature. Even if things go well on Monday with her, I know it'll be up to me to move things forward. Even when she seemed to like me, I still did all the planning etc. She never texted me which I found odd, although always(and still) responds quickly to my messages.

[Batya33]

No I do not think the slow fader is worth pursuing.

It doesn't matter if she wanted sex on date two. Or one. It takes two people. The couple should decide when they are each comfortable. But if kissing wasn't sparking you I think that was the answer. Once in awhile I'd try kissing again and once in awhile it was better but typically not.

[bluecastle]

Follow me for a moment:

 

I travel a lot, have spent considerable time all over the world. Some places, like Costa Rica and Italy, I click with. Good chemistry, one could say. Don’t speak the language, don’t really know much about the culture, but I’m comfortable, at ease, while also being totally intrigued. Could live in those places no sweat, figuring it out and going deeper as time goes on, no different than my life in Los Angeles. Other spots, like England and Russia—well, we just don’t jibe. Bad chemistry. I speak English, and speak it quite well, and yet I just don’t quite “get” the UK. There’s a stiffness to life there, a repressed something that I find interesting but also kind of exhausting, much the way I find Russia, a country I’ve spent time in, to be lovely enough, if a little aggressive, hard to read.

 

Could I live in Moscow, London? Sure. I’m adaptable, tough. But I’d never love it the way other people love those places, natives and newcomers. Fortunately, no one is forcing me to live there, so why would I make the choice to make a home in a place that naturally unsettles me? What is the reward in that? No prize will be given out after a year or lifetime of becoming a touch more comfortable in an environment that triggers discomfort.

 

Slow fade woman? She’s your Moscow. Don’t make it more than it is. A place you visited and found chilly. Some other dude could meet her, find her an easy read, have a blast, get flooded with warmth. That dude is not you. She’s hot and intriguing in ways, sure, but those are not precious qualities in the world. They exist in abundance, in people who won’t make you feel like a physicist or chemist in trying to understand.

 

Last night’s woman? She’s not Italy or Costa Rica—you need more pizzazz—but she showed you something important, reminded you what you want to feel like, in your own skin, sitting across from a stranger. Great. Savor that, and let it move the compass needle—not back toward Moscow but to the horizon where you’ll meet a woman who boils the blood without raising the blood pressure. It’s not rocket science, but patience, and a dash of confidence and faith that, with the person, you won’t have to plan and prepare and ensure, but simply be.

 

My few cents.

[dmveep]

Follow me for a moment:

 

I travel a lot, have spent considerable time all over the world. Some places, like Costa Rica and Italy, I click with. Good chemistry, one could say. Don’t speak the language, don’t really know much about the culture, but I’m comfortable, at ease, while also being totally intrigued. Could live in those places no sweat, figuring it out and going deeper as time goes on, no different than my life in Los Angeles. Other spots, like England and Russia—well, we just don’t jibe. Bad chemistry. I speak English, and speak it quite well, and yet I just don’t quite “get” the UK. There’s a stiffness to life there, a repressed something that I find interesting but also kind of exhausting, much the way I find Russia, a country I’ve spent time in, to be lovely enough, if a little aggressive, hard to read.

 

Could I live in Moscow, London? Sure. I’m adaptable, tough. But I’d never love it the way other people love those places, natives and newcomers. Fortunately, no one is forcing me to live there, so why would I make the choice to make a home in a place that naturally unsettles me? What is the reward in that? No prize will be given out after a year or lifetime of becoming a touch more comfortable in an environment that triggers discomfort.

 

Slow fade woman? She’s your Moscow. Don’t make it more than it is. A place you visited and found chilly. Some other dude could meet her, find her an easy read, have a blast, get flooded with warmth. That dude is not you. She’s hot and intriguing in ways, sure, but those are not precious qualities in the world. They exist in abundance, in people who won’t make you feel like a physicist or chemist in trying to understand.

 

Last night’s woman? She’s not Italy or Costa Rica—you need more pizzazz—but she showed you something important, reminded you what you want to feel like, in your own skin, sitting across from a stranger. Great. Savor that, and let it move the compass needle—not back toward Moscow but to the horizon where you’ll meet a woman who boils the blood without raising the blood pressure. It’s not rocket science, but patience, and a dash of confidence and faith that, with the person, you won’t have to plan and prepare and ensure, but simply be.

 

My few cents.

 

You are probably right. I mean she did say she just felt something just felt off, but just pointed towards physical chemistry.

 

I actually feel pretty conflicted right now. On one hand, I'd like to see her again to see if things perk up a bit. Its been a long time since I had genuine interest in someone at a high level. Its hard to let those feelings go.

 

On the other hand, maybe seeing her again will just make things worse. I mean she still will have trouble communicating things, and how could I ever really look past someone who's method of communication was a slow fade?

 

That being said, I was once rejected by a woman after a date, we hung out as friends a couple times, then she changed her mind and that was the best relationship I've ever had which lasted 3.5 years. Things were awkward at first which is why I got rejected but then things changed. Of course, that situation happened before dating apps made people as disposable as a paper cup.

 

As of now, I'm supposed to meet her for dinner tomorrow. I don't know how to greet her, she I try to go for a kiss, a hug, do what feels best? do I tell her how I feel about her in person? Do I invite her to my place? I know this sounds weird but when I have a game plan for dates, they always go better. I just feel like all the momentum is gone now. I don't know how to get it back.

[dmveep]

No I do not think the slow fader is worth pursuing.

It doesn't matter if she wanted sex on date two. Or one. It takes two people. The couple should decide when they are each comfortable. But if kissing wasn't sparking you I think that was the answer. Once in awhile I'd try kissing again and once in awhile it was better but typically not.

 

I don't know, I guess I just feel blamed for things not going well, which seems very unfair given that there was absolutely no communication about or during sex. I'm not saying stop and have a convo in the middle but pushing things in a certain direction, moving a hand to the proper spot, suggesting an act or position, absolutely nothing occurred. I guess I just feel frustrated by the lack of communication I received, yet there was still an expectation for something that was not communicated. I'm pretty open minded about sex and would do whatever my partner needs to be happy, but I also can't predict what they need always. My last gf was the best lover I've ever had, but she clearly communicated what she liked and it worked well. We also had sex fairly early on maybe 5-6 dates. It just kept getting better over time. She never made me feel bad about anything that ever happened, even if I got overstimulated and came early on.

[boltnrun]

You described incredibly awkward, uncomfortable dates.

 

So why the "high interest"? Why "feelings" for someone you really don't even know that well or for very long?

 

Could you be one of those people who can't accept "failure"? Who MUST make something work just so you can feel better about it even if it's not the right choice?

[Batya33]

I think lacking physical chemistry doesn't mean she thought the sex was bad because of technique -she doesn't feel attracted enough to want to have sex in the first place. You're talking about sexual compatibility which is separate. Of course people can have sex right away and it goes well and there's also chemistry. It's just riskier if you're looking for a long term relationship because if it doesn't go well the couple is less inclined to communicate about it since there's no investment in the relationship. Here I just think she's not feeling attracted enough in general.

[dmveep]

I think lacking physical chemistry doesn't mean she thought the sex was bad because of technique -she doesn't feel attracted enough to want to have sex in the first place. You're talking about sexual compatibility which is separate. Of course people can have sex right away and it goes well and there's also chemistry. It's just riskier if you're looking for a long term relationship because if it doesn't go well the couple is less inclined to communicate about it since there's no investment in the relationship. Here I just think she's not feeling attracted enough in general.

 

She described it as we just didn't gel, which doesn't indicate a lack of attraction but a lack of compatibility to me.

[Batya33]

She described it as we just didn't gel, which doesn't indicate a lack of attraction but a lack of compatibility to me.

 

OK - you're entitled to interpret it that way. No one is asking you to be a mind reader and I am not at all knowledgeable about how to improve sexual compatibility between two people who have been on a few dates.

[dmveep]

You described incredibly awkward, uncomfortable dates.

 

So why the "high interest"? Why "feelings" for someone you really don't even know that well or for very long?

 

Could you be one of those people who can't accept "failure"? Who MUST make something work just so you can feel better about it even if it's not the right choice?

 

As I described, it seemed like there was a lot of potential initially in terms of compatibility in lifestyle and physical attraction. I think the main problem is sex makes me feel more invested in the person, even if its not going great, which is why I generally try to hold off. It just makes it harder for me to see things clearly.

[Batya33]

Many many people have potential initially and not just in romantic situations. Yes, you made a choice to have sex early on because you prioritized sex over the risks you say you took - getting too invested in a new person, making it harder for you to see things clearly. Looks like the downsides of your choice happened. After a handful of dates many people decide they're not clicking -sex or no sex.

[bluecastle]

Could you be one of those people who can't accept "failure"? Who MUST make something work just so you can feel better about it even if it's not the right choice?

 

Some version of this question is pinballing around in my own head.

 

I mean, if you're still interested in her in spite of the friction, still wondering if there's a road toward things smoothing out and becoming satisfying—cool. Go to dinner, see how it goes. Boom: that is the "game plan," beginning and end.

 

Generally speaking, the more you can make that the game plan the better this stuff will be: romance, dating, sex, an actual relationship. You can't control the outcome or shape the narrative in your own head, or solely with your own actions, since that negates the best part: the other human being on the other end of the seesaw, with her own unique spirit and chemical composition. She will feel whatever she feels, want whatever she wants, view you however she views you.

 

Your 3.5 year relationship kind of supports the above thesis, no? Things didn't go so well when you were swirling around in your head, game planning the date. Then, when you were just you, when there wasn't so much pressure for it to become Something or One Specific Thing, what happened? It became a thing, and a lovely one.

 

All that said, I do wonder how much your interest in her, at the moment, is self-interest: a desire to prove yourself, to "win," to "succeed," to not reside for eternity in her mind as the Awkward Sex Guy. Not sure that approach does anyone any favors. You say you get more invested in "the person" after sex, but are you sure that person you're more invested in is her or you?

[dmveep]

Many many people have potential initially and not just in romantic situations. Yes, you made a choice to have sex early on because you prioritized sex over the risks you say you took - getting too invested in a new person, making it harder for you to see things clearly. Looks like the downsides of your choice happened. After a handful of dates many people decide they're not clicking -sex or no sex.

 

I just feel like I'm never going to get this right. How do people stay patient when there is constant struggles? I've just been on so many dates, so many misses.

[bluecastle]

I just feel like I'm never going to get this right. How do people stay patient when there is constant struggles? I've just been on so many dates, so many misses.

 

How many is so many? Ten? Three hundred?

 

If it's between those two numbers I'd say you're doing fine, even excellent, especially if peppered in there among the stumbles have been some multi-year relationships, some wonderful sex, some so-so sex.

 

The more you can let things be what they are, rather than what you wish they would be, the less of a "constant struggle" it is.

[reinventmyself]

She described it as we just didn't gel, which doesn't indicate a lack of attraction but a lack of compatibility to me.

New sex, new person, high interest and attraction, you're going to overlook a stumble in the bedroom and you'll look forward to overcoming it.

 

But there has to be enough of a connection outside of the bedroom to do it.

 

Stop focusing on what went wrong in bedroom.

 

'We just don't gel' is a global statement. Don't push to get her to tell you her sexual preferences at this point. Especially in light of everything you you shared.

 

If there's any hope for this, focus on connecting with her on other levels and cultivating those first.

[dmveep]

Some version of this question is pinballing around in my own head.

 

I mean, if you're still interested in her in spite of the friction, still wondering if there's a road toward things smoothing out and becoming satisfying—cool. Go to dinner, see how it goes. Boom: that is the "game plan," beginning and end.

 

Generally speaking, the more you can make that the game plan the better this stuff will be: romance, dating, sex, an actual relationship. You can't control the outcome or shape the narrative in your own head, or solely with your own actions, since that negates the best part: the other human being on the other end of the seesaw, with her own unique spirit and chemical composition. She will feel whatever she feels, want whatever she wants, view you however she views you.

 

Your 3.5 year relationship kind of supports the above thesis, no? Things didn't go so well when you were swirling around in your head, game planning the date. Then, when you were just you, when there wasn't so much pressure for it to become Something or One Specific Thing, what happened? It became a thing, and a lovely one.

 

 

Wow, maybe you're right! I have noticed when I'm out there playing loose and free and there no pressure, everything goes better. For instance, if I get on an online date and decide I'm not interested in the person almost immediately, I'm usually just being myself to the core since I don't care about the outcome. Oddly, almost always, these women end up liking me. I noticed I make myself a lot more vulnerable in terms of personal details I reveal and also make edgy jokes I wouldn't normally.

 

The last time I saw this lady was in the middle of the slow fade treatment. It put me in kind of bad mood and honestly, it felt really awkward. I felt like I wasn't being myself which is the last thing you want as time goes on. She clearly got in her head about some stuff, which caused the fade behavior and caused me to get in my head about stuff.

 

I feel really nervous about meeting up with her again. If I can't get in that loose and free mode again, seems like this will go poorly.

[dmveep]

New sex, new person, high interest and attraction, you're going to overlook a stumble in the bedroom and you'll look forward to overcoming it.

 

But there has to be enough of a connection outside of the bedroom to do it.

 

Stop focusing on what went wrong in bedroom.

 

'We just don't gel' is a global statement. Don't push to get her to tell you her sexual preferences at this point. Especially in light of everything you you shared.

 

If there's any hope for this, focus on connecting with her on other levels and cultivating those first.

 

You're probably right. It seemed like she was having trouble identifying what seemed off. Either way, I feel like such a loser trying to convince someone to go out with me again. I don't know if I can overcome that.

[boltnrun]

You're probably right. It seemed like she was having trouble identifying what seemed off. Either way, I feel like such a loser trying to convince someone to go out with me again. I don't know if I can overcome that.

 

So why again are you doing this to yourself? Because of "potential"?

 

There is "potential" with millions of women. Putting yourself through this for ONE woman who you've already had struggles with doesn't make sense to me. Except you just cannot accept or admit "defeat". Which, interestingly, IS self-defeating.

[bluecastle]

I have noticed when I'm out there playing loose and free and there no pressure, everything goes better.

 

But of course! Think of driving a car. If your arms are flexed, your fists clenched, your eyes obsessively on the gas gauge, your mind freaked about its accuracy and entertaining visions of being stranded, do you enjoy the ride? Nope—and, not only that, you're at a greater risk of getting into an accident.

 

That said, some cars—sorry, I love a metaphor!—are just going to trigger more ease than others. You test ride the Porsche, the F150 with the big wheels, the vintage BMW and the new Prius. Not all are going to feel the same. You buy the one that feels like you, the one in which, with little effort, your arms relax.

 

Like bolt, I don't quite understand what seems to be a curious relationship in the case of this woman: increased anxiety = increased interest. Less at home you feel behind the wheel, the more you want to drive this specific car.

 

Romance is not a rodeo: you don't get points for staying on the bull. The "points," generally speaking, is when it doesn't feel like riding a bull.

 

This whole thing seemed "off," best I can tell, to you. But she vocalizes it first and now you want to make it all feel "on" by unraveling the mystery of sexual wants? That's eyes on the gas gauge, not the road.

 

Odd thing about all this, from where I sit? She's down to see you again. Not really sure why that can't be enough to exhale, at this moment. Your absolute worst case scenario here—an awkward dinner with someone you've had awkward sex with and whom you don't see again afterward—is not quite Chernobyl. Can you remind yourself of that, find some comfort and confidence in that fact, and then see about another human being?

[Batya33]

I just feel like I'm never going to get this right. How do people stay patient when there is constant struggles? I've just been on so many dates, so many misses.

 

I found it very challenging but kept my eye on the prize. Never ever would I have bothered for all those years if the prize wasn't totally worth it. It was. I'm glad I stuck it out. I know it's hard and I wish you all the best.

[dmveep]

I found it very challenging but kept my eye on the prize. Never ever would I have bothered for all those years if the prize wasn't totally worth it. It was. I'm glad I stuck it out. I know it's hard and I wish you all the best.

 

Maybe it’s just the cumulative load of things not working out over and over again, but the sting of this just really feels terrible.

 

I mean, how bad does it feel to discuss how frustrating dating can be when people do things like ghost and slow fade, only to have that person come back and do it to you?? I just can’t think of a situation that could be more demoralizing.

 

I don’t know why keep thinking about this. I mean she treated me like crap, then I begged for another date. How could I feel anymore hopeless? Maybe to preserve my self-respect it would be better to call it off?

 

I mean, is there any chance she’s going to change her tune?

[boltnrun]

See, that's what many of us are trying to tell you.

 

Why put so much thought, emotion and effort into a woman who would have to "change her tune" to be the right woman for you?

 

How about taking a better chance of meeting a woman who won't need to "change her tune" for you because she'll already be playing the same tune you are?

 

I don't get why you're putting yourself through this except you have some (IMO, unhealthy) need to prove something. To whom (you or her), I don't know. But you're sure throwing yourself into the wringer here.

[bluecastle]

Maybe it’s just the cumulative load of things not working out over and over again, but the sting of this just really feels terrible.

 

I mean, how bad does it feel to discuss how frustrating dating can be when people do things like ghost and slow fade, only to have that person come back and do it to you?? I just can’t think of a situation that could be more demoralizing.

 

I don’t know why keep thinking about this. I mean she treated me like crap, then I begged for another date. How could I feel anymore hopeless? Maybe to preserve my self-respect it would be better to call it off?

 

I mean, is there any chance she’s going to change her tune?

 

What is the timeline, exactly, of the slow fade? You wrote about this in the earlier post, at which point it had been 24 hours since you heard from her. I'm assuming another day or so passed, after which you sent the direct message that led to this talk that led to these spins? Just trying to see the full picture.

 

Anyhow, I can't help but feel, if we strip this to the bone, that what you're disappointed with is that this woman is not obsessed with you, super into you, even though you have yet to become super into her. I don't mean that critically, just observationally.

 

She didn't ghost you, after all, didn't really mess with you. She spent some time with you, perhaps around 10-15 hours spread out over 4 dates? She was physically intimate with you, went a little quiet afterward. Was probably sorting through thoughts, feelings, and who knows what else is going on her life. When you chose to make your discomfort crystal clear, she met you on that plane, and respectfully told you that she wasn't sure about things.

 

Nothing wrong with still wanting to see her, still being curious, and expressing that. Just as there would be nothing wrong with having zero interest in her at that point. Still, you did not "beg." You were just you: door still opened. She listened. Maybe what you said, in combo with those 10-15 hours, moved her needle a bit, and she opted for another date. And all that is "hopeless" and "demoralizing"? And now you're thinking of canceling to preserve self-respect?

 

I don't get it. That sounds to me like you're looking to punish her for a series of choices you've made that have left you feeling punished.

 

Is there a chance she changes her tune? Well, sure. It happens. You have a 3.5 year relationship that unspooled because a woman "changed her tune" about you, no? But like bolt, I don't quite understand why this has become the most pressing question. Your own tune on her was unclear, lacking harmony. Do you want her to be super into you so you can more clearly decide if you're into her?

[Batya33]

Maybe it’s just the cumulative load of things not working out over and over again, but the sting of this just really feels terrible.

 

I mean, how bad does it feel to discuss how frustrating dating can be when people do things like ghost and slow fade, only to have that person come back and do it to you?? I just can’t think of a situation that could be more demoralizing.

 

I don’t know why keep thinking about this. I mean she treated me like crap, then I begged for another date. How could I feel anymore hopeless? Maybe to preserve my self-respect it would be better to call it off?

 

I mean, is there any chance she’s going to change her tune?

 

What do you mean by "things not working out" -after a very short time of dating there's nothing that's not "working out" because you weren't yet at the "working" stage - yes, if you're in an exclusive, committed serious relationship for months and you break up then things didn't "work out" because there was a "thing" that didn't work out. At this really early stage you two weren't yet a thing -a couple -it's simply run of the mill simple dating where one person early on decides against another date. Happens all the time -disappointing for sure but so common! No fade, no ghosting because there wasn't anything to fade or ghost from.