On & Off Emotionally Abusive Marriage... I am Deciding Whether to Stay or Leave

[SingingRain]

There are no magic words that will make this easier for you... except perhaps to say that if you want to stay with him, you need to start accepting him for who he is instead of battling with him. He isn't going to change at this stage of the game, nor should he... you chose to marry him based on who he was at the time, so it's not fair to expect him to change now.

 

If you want to change the dance, you need to start with yourself and how you respond to the conflict in your relationship. If you choose to respond in a way that doesn't escalate his behavior, it will have no choice but to fizzle out on it's own. Be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better as he tries harder to engage you, that's normal... however you get to decide how you want to be in this relationship and then work on being that person.

 

At least then you will feel better about how you have handled things and perhaps can stop some of the insanity of what is currently happening.

 

Thank you... I appreciate your post. Yes, I've determined that I need to change my own reactions. I am reactive and get angry and respond in kind when he raises his voice. What I wish to try is to deescalate the situation by no longer reacting. I have tried walking away from him, but he follows me, continuing to argue with me. So if I don't react, there's nothing to argue about right? And if I don't respond in kind, then it's obvious that he's the one yelling.

[SingingRain]

Feeling for you—as, I think, everyone listening to you is.

 

I think where you're feeling frustrated in this thread is because people are struggling to offer compassionate words, in the form you want or expected. But when someone says "abuse" or "abusive" the greatest display of compassion is to encourage that person to seek safety. That's kind of a fact—and there are ways in which watering down that fact can be more damaging (non-compassionate) than highlighting it. Hence I want to pull out my own bullhorn and tell you that you are worth more than this, that love can feel different than this—and that the hard road of exiting it is but a fraction as hard as staying in it.

 

That out of the way, I'll try to approach this momentarily from a less incendiary angle: that you are married to someone you are not compatible with—or, perhaps, semi-compatible with, and you are deeply frustrated by this choice you've made.

 

I frame it that way not to assign blame to you—or to dismiss his role in all this—but the opposite: to assign power to you, which I think is what you're seeking. With him and now, by proxy, with us. I'm just not quite sure if your chosen measure of seeking it, in both cases, actually serves you. For instance, with us you are dismissing the words you don't want to hear, while trying to get us to say the words you do, which is to say you're trying to turn us into people we are not. In the process you're growing only more frustrated, more powerless.

 

Is that a familiar state of affairs in this relationship, or relationships in general?

 

I ask that because of how you described your marriage being conditional on him not raising his voice at you. Except that's not a fact; it's a story told to soften the fact. He did raise his voice at you, and you chose to marry him anyway. That is the fact. Your marriage was conditional on him raising his voice at you occasionally—and on you finding power, of a sort, by setting new conditions when he did. You are writing this thread, in part, because you're realizing no real power comes from this dynamic.

 

It's false power, at best, because it's built around a false premise. At best it makes incompatibility a bonding point and at worst it enables abuse.

 

Feel for you. Hugs. But what do my hugs and feelings get you? Half a second of relief?

 

The million dollar question still shines just as bright and jaggedly: Can you change this dynamic inside the relationship rather than changing it by ending the relationship? Well, that is hard. Relationships in and of themselves are rewards for behavior—both the good and the bad, which is why we try to pick people whose "bad" sides are things we're "good" with. Marriage is the ultimate reward.

 

The only way to find power inside an abusive dynamic—save for leaving—is to (a) not give the abuse any power over you and (b) to seek power outside of him. He is a still point. He's not going to change—and, if he does, it's not going to be "for" you. But you can change.

 

You can treat his outrages the way a parent treats a child who throws a tantrum. The parent sees through the tantrum, is not phased. You have to not be phased. So instead of thinking of him as an abusive monster, a Jekyll/Hyde, you need to think of him as just a man, a person with a full spectrum of personhood that you want to see if you can live alongside. He needs to be half your size in your imagination, not twice your size, with the hope that maybe it all levels out.

 

And if it doesn't? You grew into a bigger, stronger, more powerful shape than you're in right now. You got back some of that power you're craving, but you mined it from within, not through him. Once you have that, even just a shake more than you do today, you will see the dilemma from a different angle. Either he steps up, and meets you on the plane you create through self-empowerment, or he shows you he is incapable of that. Both of those are wins.

 

That's about the best I can do, given what you're giving us to work with. I don't know you, don't know your romantic history over 49 years of life. I do know that it doesn't need to feel like this, and I hope you can take steps from that piece of knowledge.

 

 

Thank you for your post... and I appreciate what you've said. It's lengthy so I may not be able to reply to everything you wrote. What frustrated me is I specifically asked to not be given advice around staying or leaving, and I asked for support and compassion in my plight while I make a decision. This decision could take me months or years, even. I understand why and I get it because when most people hear the word abuse, it's not acceptable in any way and the typical and expected advice is for people to say leave the relationship. But I didn't want that. I wanted support while I figure this out.

 

I am not in the position to say I want to leave. I am also not in the position to say I want to stay. I am undecided.

 

I love the advice, yours included, about controlling my own behaviors and reactions, and how I am within the relationship. It's so difficult to not be phased, however, when he's having an enormous tantrum, over money let's say.

 

I also have only written about the bad things. We get along amazingly well most of the time. We're very loving and affectionate with one another every single day. We kiss each other goodbye each morning, we text cute loving messages to each other during the day while at work, we miss each other even while we're working, and we cuddle and snuggle every single night together. We're very affectionate. We also enjoy the music scene together, that's both of our greatest passions and something we have together that is a deep common bond. We share many similar interests, though of course we differ in some ways too.

 

Most of the time, things are loving. But like I wrote, it was bad just before the wedding and right after the wedding.. and about once per month there seems to be a big blowout fight, initiated by him. And in those fights, he fights dirty with me and becomes abusive. He also can be very controlling towards me, and I have confronted it with him. Since I confronted it, that behavior has pretty much stopped.

 

I DO think there's hope for change on his part. Maybe I'm naive, but when he curbs his bad behaviors, it tells me he can control himself and keep himself in check.

 

And when things are good, I feel very loving towards him, and that's what keeps me bonded to him.. hence the indeciveness over staying or leaving.

 

As I wrote in my original post, however, IF there is just one more huge and awful blowout whereby he becomes cruel and insulting, I may just become so frustrated and upset that I decide to pull the plug. It's maddening that he won't get help or admit to his anger issues to me.

 

But I am going to attempt to alter my own behavior in reaction to him and see what happens.

[SingingRain]

For the record, this is a big deal for me, to have gotten married. I was single on and off for more than 30 years. I came close to marriage and was engaged once before. I have had a few loving relationships and many abusive relationships. My father was emotionally abusive towards me, hence the pattern. I thought when I met my now husband that the pattern had finally changed. My ex fiance was very abusive. I had asked and prayed to God, "bring me the man who will marry me. You know what I need". Then I met my soon to be husband, who presented himself to be everything I was looking for. He wooed me for months to marry him. He rushed things with me, even though I wanted and expressed that I needed to take things slowly. He said all the right magic words to me. Though I did see some red flags, that I even wrote down in my journal & documented. I was aware of the red flags, but I allowed him to woo me because I was weakened after my horrific breakup with my abusive ex fiance.

 

I wanted a marriage, after not ever being married for 48 years. I wanted a life partner very badly at that point. I had dated a ton. I've had a ton of boyfriends throughoout my life. I was done with the dating scene. And here was this most handsome and charming man telling me he wanted to marry me, just two months after dating. After my prayer to God, I figured, this must be the man that God sent for me!

 

So that's part of the backstory. Yes, I have a lot of past abusive history. Yes, I've dealt with mental health issue and self esteem issues, though my self esteem is not so bad... it's not low, and it's not extremely high, it's middle of the road.

 

He came along and I thought he was the answer to my prayers. Then just before the wedding, it blew up and it blew up badly. But I couldn't break it off at that time. I knew I should have, given his horrific behavior towards me at the time. But I didn't want to go through a traumatic breakup and lose 8K that I had spent on our honeymoon and wedding overseas... not to mention, the first vacation I had had in 20 years.

 

So that's more of the story for all of you.... and now I feel very committed to seeing this through.. either way. I want to give it my best shot. There's a lot invested here, over the last year and a half. And we share financial debt as well.

[Leah33]

I am at a point where if just one more blow up occurs on his end, with him yelling at me and throwing mean insults, I could seriously just be done and I may have to walk away. But I take my marriage vows seriously, I want to see things through, and I think (I think) I may still love him. I am not entirely sure yet.... honestly, that is part of what I am deciding right now.. do I even still love him?????

 

Breaking up can be very scary, especially when you’re married and seemingly still in love with your partner.

 

Factor in emotional abuse and your mind has become addicted to the back and forth, ups and downs and periods of “lovingness in-between”.

 

The body can only take so much stress. Perhaps a day will come when your body shuts down and you can no longer take it anymore. Maybe that’s the day when you find you no longer have love for this person and that’s the day you can say, goodbye.

[SingingRain]

Breaking up can be very scary, especially when you’re married and seemingly still in love with your partner.

 

Factor in emotional abuse and your mind has become addicted to the back and forth, ups and downs and periods of “lovingness in-between”.

 

The body can only take so much stress. Perhaps a day will come when your body shuts down and you can no longer take it anymore. Maybe that’s the day when you find you no longer have love for this person and that’s the day you can say, goodbye.

 

thank you..... it is very scary the thought of breaking up. SO much is at stake!!!! it would be traumatic to say the least and earth shattering. Our lives are completely intertwined, including our social circle of friends which is mutual. The only way it could happen is if he completely pushes me over the edge. That's the only way. As you said, if I can take it no longer...... or if I fall out of love.

[Leah33]

thank you..... it is very scary the thought of breaking up. SO much is at stake!!!! it would be traumatic to say the least and earth shattering. Our lives are completely intertwined, including our social circle of friends which is mutual. The only way it could happen is if he completely pushes me over the edge. That's the only way. As you said, if I can take it no longer...... or if I fall out of love.

 

Happy to help. Hope everything works out for you.

[SingingRain]

Happy to help. Hope everything works out for you.

 

 

Thank you SO much!

[Batya33]

Dr. Joy Browne, a talk radio psychologist who passed away too soon three years ago used to ask callers "if you won the lottery tomorrow would you stay or go?"

You're 49 (I'm 53 married 10 years) - were you ever financially independent? Why would you need to save $ to afford your own place -haven't you lived on your own for years? What's your job situation?My sense is part of the issue is, unfortunately, he knows you are financially dependent on him.

[bluecastle]

It sounds like you're committed to two things—him, and the idea of him, the thing he represents to you. This is always the case, to some degree. But generally we hope that by the time we are married that the person, and what you have together, has eclipsed the idea enough that it's no longer so powerful or needed for sanity and stability.

 

The idea is like those rockets used to propel spacecrafts into space: they provide some needed thrust, early, before falling away and disintegrating. Then you are in orbit—or, well, not. If things go wrong you are burning up.

 

You're burning up a bit. The rockets are gone. Time to go the control board. Time to get real, practical, pragmatic.

 

Subtract your life history—abusive father, abusive fiancé, and so on—and he is just a man on planet earth, one you've known for less than a year and half and have been married to for five months. In your life story he is, so far, a blip. Find some comfort in that truth, right now, because ultimately that is what has to be amazing, workable, stable, sustainable.

 

And that truth—less loaded, less pressurized—gives you room to assess yourself, and see about changing some of your behavior, to see if you can become less reactive and to see how he reacts to that, how you guys shift as a unit, or not.

 

Does that make sense?

 

The astronaut may have prayed and prayed to one day go to space, beginning when he was a little boy starring up at the stars while his parents fought inside the house. But when he is in the ship, and all the red lights are flashing, the person he is turning toward to see if he can stabilize is himself—not those stars, not those boyhood dreams.

[maew]

I am just reading Codependency No More by Melody Beattie and when I read this, it made me think of this thread and all the times we stay in relationships past their due date...

 

“Much of what causes codependency is people becoming stuck in a stage of grief, and then making that stuck behavior a way of life. When denial runs our life, it’s because we’re facing the loss of something we’re not prepared to lose.

 

For example, losing our marriage and all the dreams that accompany it is a major loss, not something that comes easy. Facing it can create a lot of grief. It’s normal to want to control the loss, or make whatever’s happening stop taking place.”

[SingingRain]

Dr. Joy Browne, a talk radio psychologist who passed away too soon three years ago used to ask callers "if you won the lottery tomorrow would you stay or go?"

You're 49 (I'm 53 married 10 years) - were you ever financially independent? Why would you need to save $ to afford your own place -haven't you lived on your own for years? What's your job situation?My sense is part of the issue is, unfortunately, he knows you are financially dependent on him.

 

 

I've been financially independent all of my life and I make 90K a year. I have to save 5K to move out IF I leave because that's what it costs to move to a new apartment. I am not financially dependent on him. It's the other way around.. a little bit. And yes, I've lived on my own most of my adult life.

[SingingRain]

@blluecastle, yes that makes sense. I want this to work. I don't think it's the dream of... it's what I wanted in life... a life partner. And he is a partner.

[SingingRain]

I am just reading Codependency No More by Melody Beattie and when I read this, it made me think of this thread and all the times we stay in relationships past their due date...

 

“Much of what causes codependency is people becoming stuck in a stage of grief, and then making that stuck behavior a way of life. When denial runs our life, it’s because we’re facing the loss of something we’re not prepared to lose.

 

For example, losing our marriage and all the dreams that accompany it is a major loss, not something that comes easy. Facing it can create a lot of grief. It’s normal to want to control the loss, or make whatever’s happening stop taking place.”

 

 

I thought co-dependency is when you try to save someone else at your own expense (health, mental health or otherwise)? I don't believe I am trying to "save" him.... I found out much later what the story is here... after piecing it all together after many months. At first I thought he was literally the answer to my prayers.

 

I am definitely not prepared to leave my marriage after such a short time. It's not denial, I have a therapist and am working with my therapist on the issues I face in my marriage. I have faced it all in my mind... I even joined Facebook groups about abuse and control in marriage. But I am still not prepared to leave... not mentally, emotionally or financially.

[SingingRain]

I really appreciate everyone's concerns and help on this. It helps me simply to just talk it through and to talk about it on here.

 

To me, it's all gray.... it's not black and white. No one truly knows the full story except for me, and what I experience in this marriage. As I had written before, when things are good, it's wonderful and it's hard to imagine leaving. He can be the most loving and endearing person when things are stable and good between us. When things flare up, that's when I get a knee jerk reaction and I feel like leaving. It's a dichotomy. He's not all abusive and he's not all wonderful and a bed of roses either. He's difficult, but I feel I love him. Like right now, I feel I love him. That makes it harder when you feel you love the person.

 

Someone before on here had said it may take one instance where he pushes me too far over the edge, or I get to a point where I am no longer feeling I love him. That resonated with me.

 

We have built a home together, we have purchased many things together for our home, we have debt together and I am financially tied to him because of that debt and I co-singed on a car for him. There's financial entanglement and there's also our shared social circle. Marriage is not like a regular relationship where one day you can easily just decide and say "I'm walking away". Marriage is a commitment on many levels.....

 

I have therapy tonight, and I hope it helps. I will bring many of the concerns and comments to therapy tonight. She is objective, she doesn't tell me what to do, and she helps me, so that's good.

[Wiseman2]

You can also journal on this site rather than ask for help in the 'abuse and violence' section : https://www.enotalone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

I will bring many of the concerns and comments to therapy tonight. She is objective, she doesn't tell me what to do, and she helps me, so that's good.

[SingingRain]

You can also journal on this site rather than ask for help in the 'abuse and violence' section : https://www.enotalone.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

 

Thanks.. I guess people don’t want to just sit with me in the gray area while I figure this out. I get it. Most just think I should leave.

[SingingRain]

It’s very frustrating to me. I’m trying to get to support, not answers and not ppl telling me what to do.. I’m trying to figure out how I feel, what I want and I have conflicting feelings. Maybe I posted in the wrong forum, maybe I don’t belong here. I don’t know.

[SingingRain]

Maybe I’ll just vent in the marriage forum instead. I think it’s hard for ppl to understand my predicament.

[Batya33]

I've been financially independent all of my life and I make 90K a year. I have to save 5K to move out IF I leave because that's what it costs to move to a new apartment. I am not financially dependent on him. It's the other way around.. a little bit. And yes, I've lived on my own most of my adult life.

 

That seems a bit contradictory. If you don't have 5k saved or really close to it that doesn't sound like you have a nest egg -so I get that you are able to pay bills and at 49 it's a bit concerning that you don't have enough savings to move out, or to spend less to move out and go somewhere more temporary.

[figureitout23]

Umm.. maybe I’ve come to the wrong support site. I’m looking for understanding and compassion from people who have been through it. Not for criticisms and confrontational statements. I’m not in denial. Can anyone understand my situation?? If not I’m leaving this site.

 

As others said, you hurl the word ‘abused’ around and this is what happens.

 

A lot of people use abused as a buzz word unfortunately, including when their situation doesn’t necessarily rise to the occasion, kinda like yelling fire and pulling the alarm in a crowded building when you see smoke. I never realized before being on this board how many people seem to want to be abused, it’s scary to me, I’ve been where you are, in an abusive marriage so it can be frustrating to see being someone who survived some pretty brutal things but I have to at times take a step back and recognize the power of the word, what it means, what freedom it gives a person from their actions, some use it as attention seeking because they aren’t getting their way because they must see themselves as a victim.

 

Your comments... very tinged with victimhood...perceived victimhood.

 

They translate to: ‘if you guys don’t do what I say I’m going to leave!’

 

Very dramatic and over the top and you stay...

 

You seem to love that nuclear button...

 

I’m also quite curious why you feel you need us to guide you through when you have a full blown therapist who I’m assuming is being paid to walk you through this, serious question: is she/he not saying what you want to hear either?

 

I think some reflection is what you need right now and more open communication with your therapist.

[Wiseman2]

Your therapist does. That is a professional and all the professional advice and support you need.

I guess people don’t want to just sit with me in the gray area while I figure this out.

[boltnrun]

When someone says they are being abused it would be extremely remiss of anyone to advise them to stay. Or to "support" their choice to stay and continue to be abused.

 

And few abusers are abusive 100% of the time. Usually they are lovely when they're not abusing you. It's by design, not "oh, poor thing, he can't help it!!! The nice man is the REAL him!" The real him has an abusive side. Not wonderful at all.

[bluecastle]

From what I'm observing, no one here has once told you what to do. This is a conversation. We are listening, and reacting to what we hear, best we know how. You don't have to start a journal—a wonderful section, by the way, where people share their gray areas and discuss them—just like you don't have to leave him.

 

I asked earlier, and will ask again: Is this a standard way that you react to people when you don't like what they say, or when they don't say what you want or expect them to say? If so, and if you're serious about changing your behavior, that is worth asking and exploring.

 

Those words—want, expectation—aren't highlighted by accident. Part of your predicament, best I can see it, is that you are very frustrated that your marriage is not meeting your wants and expectations. Maybe your husband feels the same way. And maybe the subtext of these fights between you has a trace of that. Those frustrations mount, becoming a third rail between you two, then one of you touches the third rail and—boom—all the wrong sorts of spark fly for a bit.

 

Your story of him is a story that, from what I've seen in 40 years as a human, only really exists in movies: romance and marriage as the answering of all prayers, as the reward for a hard journey, the lagoon discovered after roaming the desert, the 1000 thread count stuffing of the existential void of life. Hold even a shadow of that story as the goal and you are destined for disappointment and frustration. If some part of either of you is still wanting those first two months of feral wooing to be either the baseline or the foundation—well, you're going to be in for a rocky road.

 

Given that life has conditioned you a bit to like, or at least endure, rocky roads, it is also worth asking if you are prone to seek rocky roads, or create them—either actively (by touching the third rail) or passively (by investing in third rails). After all, you are writing this during what you're calling a moment of "peace" between you and him. And your response to peace is to wonder when then boulder is going to tumble down the hill while standing in the path of the boulder. This is the stuff that has been paying therapists' mortgages for a good long time.

 

You've also spoken about him using "controlling behavior." Do note that statements like "I guess people don't want to sit with me in the gray area" are a form of control too. It's passive aggressive, as if you offer me a beer and I say, "I guess you want me to be an alcoholic," or you cook me a dinner featuring foods I don't like and I say, "I guess you never listen to me because I told you I'm allergic to broccoli" or even "I guess you want me to die because I can't eat this."

 

In those situations I am exerting control through emotional manipulation: making you feel bad because I feel uncomfortable, or that you are trying to control what I eat and drink, and so now I've boxed you into a corner where you can basically only say, "Oh, I am so sorry" or you can shout at me for being a manipulative a$$. In either of those I will be "rewarded" by upsetting you as much, if not more, than you upset me. I have won back control, or at least the illusion of it, as control always is when it comes to other people. I have also done my part in ensuring that you and I don't get along very well.

 

Finally, something else to think about, or not, as you see fit: love is not a currency, or a source of fuel. Ask people in happy marriages why they are happy and they don't say "Because I love him" or "Because we are so in love." That's a given, just like I don't spend much time extolling the value of oxygen when I talk about why I'm stoked with my life. It's important stuff—without oxygen I am nothing, literally—but it is in abundance. It's free, as love is free.

 

Turn "love" into something else—a kind of fuel to mine, or extract, or to measure in quantities—and you're focusing on the wrong ingredient for functionality. The moment you are waiting for that one thing that "pushes you over the ledge" is the moment you're already over the ledge—and finding comfort in that free-fall rather than comfort in seeing what you can do to find stable footing.

[maew]

I thought co-dependency is when you try to save someone else at your own expense (health, mental health or otherwise)? I don't believe I am trying to "save" him.... I found out much later what the story is here... after piecing it all together after many months. At first I thought he was literally the answer to my prayers.

 

I am definitely not prepared to leave my marriage after such a short time. It's not denial, I have a therapist and am working with my therapist on the issues I face in my marriage. I have faced it all in my mind... I even joined Facebook groups about abuse and control in marriage. But I am still not prepared to leave... not mentally, emotionally or financially.

 

Whether or not you leave is up to you... you have the freedom to choose today... however I think you need to be honest with yourself about what you are facing.

 

You are staying in this relationship at your own expense... to the detriment of your mental health and eventually physical health should this escalate beyond just verbal abuse. You are in denial that at some point he will change. You are hoping that if you do the right things, including twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to change your response to the anger and abuse, if you hang on long enough, you will be able to "fix" the relationship and thus fix him... that at some point you will be able to make him stop behaving the way he is behaving.

 

Co-dependency is a form of control. It's an unhealthy attachment to a dysfunctional person, an expectation of an outcome that is unrealistic, an obsession with the other person and trying to fix or change them in some way, a lack of boundaries, being reactive to the thoughts and feelings of this individual.

 

The hoped for outcome in a co-dependent relationship is that if the functional person waits long enough and tries hard enough, the dysfunctional person will finally see the light and change for the good of the relationship. The actual outcome of a co-dependent relationship is that the functional person blames the dysfunctional one for everything that is going wrong in their life and uses the dysfunctional person as a way to avoid looking at themselves.

 

At the end of the day if you want to stay, self-awareness is important if you truly want to change the dynamic... as is learning how to "let go with love" and surrender to the fact that you have no control over him and what he does whether you stay or go.

[Hollyj]

So let's see. The guy is abusive-but not all the time- and you are supporting him. I don't understand? If you are the prime money maker then why haven't you left, or kicked him out?

 

It seems like you never intend of taking any action, but wish to be perceived as some sort of victim for attention. What does your therapist say? Do you have friends?