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Im I confused or just stupid


Jian
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Hello everyone

 

A quick introduction, ive known this board about 15 y ago. Talking with people here really helped me going over a breakup and also receiving advice on dating later on.

Fast-forward to now. Married since 12y, 2 kids, soon to be 3 propertie (1 home + w rentals). Im now in a very confused moments. Im not sure whats my expectation from posting this, maybe helping me clarify my thoughts, having a second opinion could be helpful, or simply just venting out my frustrations.

Like all couples we have ups and downs. I would say throughout out our relationship we had 8 or 10 big fights where she reached a point where she said she can no longer deal with me and want a divorce. In all instances though, after a day or 2 everything was back to normal, sort of. We also had marriage counseling for about 6 month, 3 years ago. I liked it, it really opened my eyes on some of our issues and offered interesting options on how to fix those. My wife thought it was a waste of money, stupid and unhelpful. I also liked it cause i could talk with no fear of her getting angry at me for something i say.

 

About me, i know I have an attention problem, and I easily forget stuff. Although i use a calendar to remember important dates, at work I take a ton of notes. In my day to day life its not perfect and i forget snippet of conversations. I had the same problem at school, after a few min, my mind would wonder away and will stop listening to the teacher. That being said it happens with her during our conversations, way more often these par few years. Obliviously, the more the conversation is uninteresting to me, the bigger or quicker this effect kicks in.

On her side she as a very angry temper, has some serious anger issue management, mostly with me (and her parents). This create quite a clash with my attention problem. There are things that I'm not very interested to know or talk about, or stuff that I'm tired of hearing about. She has a very big interest, about money and property investment. Its basically her hobby, she talks about it when she wakes up, before going to bed, on her way to work... I know she wants to improve our family situation and set us up for retirement but there's this huge comparing factor where she always tell about how her friends bought this or invested in that and she gets frustrated when she cannot achieve want they did. This investment part of our lives is very stress-full and i hate it. I have hard time following her conversations (technical, taxes, laws...) and when ever i ask about something i didn’t understand she gets mad at me., like really mad. Telling me how stupid I am. She works in accounting, shes knows about this stuff way more than me. The other aspect about her investment approach that Im not liking is who do you think has to deal with the tenants and repairs and problems, me obliviously. Its a lot of pressure and stress but whenever i complain or want to show my dissatisfaction, im being told that i dont want to improve our situation, that we have to work hard to get a better life and that I'm just lazy... A side note, when she gets angry she sometimes reaches a point where she want to break stuff, she did throw her cellphone at me once, broke a book of mine, scratched a laptop screen, a plastic step stand. I'm actually very scared of her reaction sometimes. Its on extremely rare occasions but still.

 

My financial, I win 75k a year (not enough in her opinion), she is at 60k. We have no debt except our mortgages, i have been very interested in the stock market these last 5 y. I started with 20k and im now managing our porfolio of 100k. I really like it , it dosent take me more that 30 min a day and dont have to stress (well not too often) about it. But this is not worthy in her eyes cause her friends are doing way more with their properties.

About her anger management, there is something that the psychiatrist told us in one meeting where he said that we are responsible for our actions and reactions toward others. When we get angry because someone else did or said something its up to us to control and create a response. I liked his analogy of the wife beater who answer that he's beating his wife cause shes making him angry. She often get angry at me and whenever i ask her to calm down (using a lower soothing voice has better effect than welling louder, another trick) she shout back that shes getting mad cause of me. Im so feed up of this aspect of our communication, its so frustrating. I simply shut down in those cases and just listen to her complaining, and hope that she calm down.

 

We had another of those big fight last week. She, like other times, brought up the subject of divorce at some point and even said we should be looking for a partner who share the same interest at improving their situation and a divorce would be for the best for both of us. But something was different in me this time. Other times when divorce was brought up I was panicking thinking about the kids, the process, money, families. I also thought that if it ever happens that i will never get into another relationship simply because i don’t want to deal with this sorts of communication problems anymore. But not that last time. What was different this time? I know that just based on other posts Ive read that this is a recurrent pattern and that people will just roll their eyes when I say it... But so be it.

 

I’ve started to notice a women at work. I don’t know her, never talked with her but find myself very attracted to her like I’ve never felt since I've meet my wife. These days, I’m often wondering if she’s single, what kind of person is she, does she have kids, and so on. I’ve not initiated any contact with her cause there’s a part in me that tells me it would be wrong if me to do it. As long as I’m in my current relationship I won’t be making any moves. But she’s had been in my mind these past few days, imagining life would be better if i was with her instead. This is all a crazy fantasy but when ever I think about it it makes me feel good and give me hope, this is hard to stop. I definitely do not want to cheat on my wife but at the same time I feel like im stuck in a relation that I don't see improving over time.

 

There’s been good sides in this relationship, her family is nice to me, we both share the same view on how to raise our kids and both are good at money and savings.

But since the last 3 weeks, it’s like I don’t care much about the out come of this relationship. Since the beginning, I’ve always been the one who was totally against divorce and had to adapt to her personality to make this marriage work out... I feel. But now there’s this mindset of acceptance of the possibility of me wanting to be with someone else, being with someone who I could communicate with and have fun conversations. This is starting to feel way more appealing than my current relationship. This whole situation is not pleasant and awkward, i feel this lump in my stomach constantly, i actually lost 4 pounds within the last 3 weeks...

 

Anyway thanks for reading through all of this wall of text. I appreciated any feedback or options.

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I think you both need to go back to the marriage counselor and if she wont go, then you find yourself a therapist to talk to. You've got a lot on your plate and an angry, hostile wife makes it all so very difficult to deal with. It sounds like you are doing your part to build a nest egg for your future and retirement, so it seems odd she doesnt appreciate your effort. You both need help and I hope you get it. Your kids need to be considered too. Dont get involved with the woman from work or any other woman. Sort out your home life first.

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Deal with your failing marriage and your wife. If the relationship /marriage has to end, do it and don't cause more damage by having an affair or getting involved with anyone else. Having an affair isn't going to solve the problems that your wife and you have or the fact that you're both going around in circles in a very unhealthy way. You made her out to be a bully but you've emotionally checked out. That's not fair to her (or your kids) either. If you checked out three weeks ago, the last fight happened last week. Most people can sense when their partner doesn't care anymore.

 

Both of you are hurting each other. Stop blaming her for all of it. Getting upset and angry will just make you more reactionary. That means you will be basing your decisions on impulse and emotion only. There are a lot of mean and spiteful and hostile people out there with totally no moral conscience. Accept that and rise above it. Don't sink and drown under all that and start making decisions you'll regret. Be a bit more practical and deal with what you've got in front of you. If this is the end of the road for you, so be it.

 

Be strong no matter what your decision and don't create more drama for yourself. Speak to a lawyer if you are serious about separating and divorce. Don't do what she's done (waving the threat of divorce without going through with it). Be honest with yourself.

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Unfortunately it sounds more like a business than a romance. Perhaps the woman you are eyeing at work represents a return to dating, love, romance, etc. Something sorely absent from your marriage. It sounds like you both have turned into task-masters and forgotten to be lovers.

 

Save the finance talk for the accountant's and bankers and financial adviser's office. It seems there has become an obsession with this. You may have all the right spreadsheets rows and columns, etc, but you don't have a man-woman relationship, love or romance...no less a happy marriage.

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Thank you very much for the all advices. The last argument was a week ago. Since then, we are somewhat back into a normal/good routine. I’m not confortable at the moment to bring up the subject of divorce.There still some intimacy, less I would say cause I’m less interested, but it’s not like things are at worst at the moment. Even though I know our problems are still shadowing us... I feel it would be unfair to suddenly say hey maybe we should divorce now! I feel like I have to wait for our next fight. That’s stupid rights?

 

As for the stock market, I will say thank you amazon... :)

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I don't think you want a divorce at all but this woman at work has you thinking the grass is greener. If you wanted a divorce, you would, at the very least see a divorce attorney to find out what you would have to split, you would be looking for places to live and you would be talking to a realtor about how much you could get for your primary residence and your rental properties. Instead, you just fantasize about what it would be like to be with a woman that doesn't even know you exist never mind would be interested in getting with you.

 

Get yourself to therapy and figure out why you are actually quite addicted to the treatment your wife lays on you. Once you figure out your own codependency issues, you may be able to fix things with your wife because you've formed some boundaries that you won't let your wife cross, boundaries that will keep you emotional safe from her negativity or, failing that, you will have the strength to see that lawyer and other professionals and get yourself out of the quagmire you've allowed for yourself.

 

Good luck... find a therapist you mesh well with and don't be afraid to leave one if you aren't getting good insight that helps YOU on your journey to being the best you that you can be.

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Failing marriages happen for real, definable reasons.

It's our emotions that that make us think it's something other than that, and emotional responses can somehow fix it.

 

The two most common reasons are incompatibility and neglect.

 

Incompatibility can be a tough one because you never had the capacity or desire to marry her in the first place.

Neglect or bad habits are more fixable, that is if you don't let it go to long.

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It’s true that I have not yet talked to a divorce attorney. Although before posting the original message I’ve looked at the divorce process in my country/province.

 

We have decided during the weekend to sell our main house. The location has been a long time source of our disputes. (I was the one who suggested this area cause we had friends living nearby, turned out that it’s not a place where housing prices increase much, so she has been often resentful of that decision. Blaming me obliviously.) I have always keep my ground on not selling but now I just don’t care really.

 

Things are quite tense thought and I feel that each time we start discussing the sell and a new potential area, she starts getting mad at me for pointing out flaws in her plan, she’s basically aiming for something we cannot afford. I feel she gets mad cause she knows it’s true. (Of maybe I just don’t have guts like she say).

 

I feel like I secretly wish things escalate. At least we have the house selling process that we agreed on.

 

I fear that she will be super piss if I mention the divorce and will definitely not be easy to deal with. I’m sad for my kids, sad for everything we have build, sad for my parents and hers...

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Try discussing all this in the neutrality of a marriage therapists office. This has devolved onto a colossal power struggle of who's right, who's wrong, who's smarter, who made better decisions, etc etc.

 

Your egos are at war. Your kids are the collateral damage in this ego war and power struggle.. You are both so wrapped up in this that you've both become oblivious to that.

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I’m sorry Wiseman but I don’t agree with you. I don’t care about who’s wrong or right. She is blaming me for our finances not beings up to what she’s would like. We do not want the same thing or have the same expectations in life about what is a good financial situation.

 

I’m

Now scared of her reaction, she has a very bad temper, if I’m

The one who brings up the divorce discussion.

 

Ego has no play here sorry but I’m not that type of person.

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Ok have you tried marriage therapy to have talks and negotiations with a neutral professional third party present? Also accountants, financial advisers and other third party advisers may break the ice in the blame game issues with her.. Get a third professional opinion when there is a stand-off. She can argue and be mad at them rather than you.

She is blaming me for our finances not beings up to what she’s would like. We do not want the same thing or have the same expectations in life about what is a good financial situation.
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We had the conversation yesterday it didnÂ’t happen the way I expected, but I initiated the possibility of divorce.

 

I shared my view on the current situation and like some of you have said we are more of a business arrangement than a couple.

 

I was actually surprised that she didnÂ’t flip out and even said that she didnÂ’t want to divorce. Even though she used that threat many times throughout our relationship. We both agreed that the love is no longer present.

 

We agreed to keep going forward with the house selling cause we believe that the location is a part of what went wrong. We got very isolated from our friends and family. We got very social secluded and thatÂ’s never good.

 

Although we are unsure of moving together or separate. We are really unsure about our future, we fear that we are too broken to keep going.

 

At the moment I feel that I might want to try again but I fear that a few years after the move our problems will resurface again and we divorce anyway.

 

And there still the thought of the possibility of finding someone else better that I find compelling and keeps the thought of going forward with the divorce. That women at work, we have been eying each other a few times already and the only reason why I never talked to her yet is my ring at my finger, which I believe she saw already.

 

I hate the situation, I fear of doing or taking the wrong decision. I donÂ’t know what to do except going with the flow and expect the unexpected. ItÂ’s scary...

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It is never easy - divorce or grass is greener concept. What I can tell you is this, I am a recently separated woman. I want what you have, which I don't think you both appreciate: your own home, healthy kids, combined incomes, stashed money on stocks, and a sense of commitment to each other. Try to repair that not just for you but for your kids. Shun away from women at work, that too is a leap of faith, will it work, will it not work.

 

Don't be in a situation of regret, what I am saying is > try harder. You will not be in a place of doubt as you are now, once you are certain you want to divorce.

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Thank you for your input. I agree with your statement. I always wish the best for my kids, but I’ve been doing it for too long at the cost of my own happiness. (I believe)

 

My parents divorced when I was 5, my mother meet a man and has been with him to this day. My father being very absent, I was lucky to have a loving and caring step father who I consider my father more than my real father.

 

There’s a lot of conflicting issues inside of me. I feel like I don’t want to hurt anybody, especially not my wife or kids and divorce would mean that but at the same time I fear of staying miserable for a long time.

 

During our conversation yesterday I’ve told her that we should use our house selling experience has a gauge to test us, but she got mad at me for thinking that I’m still having doubt about us. It’s seem that all these times when she used the divorce threat it’s was only used to keep me in check and control me. I feel I was manipulated, and that now that it’s now me who’s suggesting divorce I’m the bad one who doesn’t want to work things out.

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The d-word is many times is used to express displeasure and even depression. Like a call for help.

 

Stop saying it yourself and try to find out whats really troubling her.

Odds are she has told you hundreds of times.

 

Not necessarily out loud, but instead what was between the lines.

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When it's a marriage I'm always for doing everything you can to save it.

 

HOWEVER...I am the product of "staying together for the kids". My siblings and I are so damaged from the war zone we grew up in. Some physical fights but mostly the division in our own home. Dad's side, Mom's side of the house, living in the same house but not interacting. All of us also have been divorced. We didn't get to see a healthy, loving relationship so we chose our spouses poorly or for the wrong reasons.

 

And before you say the kids "don't know", children are not oblivious. They see everything, whether you think they do or not.

 

So if you do think the marriage is save-able, then of course, do whatever you can. But if not, please don't subject your kids to what I grew up with.

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There are a few questions I have for you.

 

As far as your wife is concerned when is enough enough? Where is the imaginary bar she has set for you?

 

Do you love her?

 

Does she love you?

 

Are you In Love with her?

 

I got divorced not because I wanted to, but because I HAD to. You are never going to make enough money, be successful enough, make all the right choices or please her even 60% of the time. Is she your boss or your wife?

 

You may not want to divorce but for real lasting change to save a marriage BOTH people involved have to want to change, compromise, listen and empathize with the other. Do you honestly see your wife doing any of those things?

 

Divorce sucks giant monkey butt there is no doubt but staying in what you are calling a marriage is much worse. Look at the lessons you are teaching your children. Like it or not they are sponges absorbing this dysfunctional situation and forming their ideas on what a relationship is supposed to be like.

 

To answer your question I would say you are confused, afraid of what lies ahead for you and unwilling to see your wife as she really is. You are not stupid, love makes us all hang on to long or agree to things we would never imagine including me.

 

Plan for the worst and hope for the best as you move forward. There is no harm in getting some information on divorce and even legal advice. Sometimes that is enough to scare people enough to make a huge effort to repair the marriage and make it better than before.

 

Your very soul is at stake here make no mistake on that. Just enduring and surviving is not a marriage, it is not love and it is no way to live...

 

Lost

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Thanks a lot Lost

 

What you have said hurt but is true. I know I don’t love her and I believe she had stop loving me for a long time ago.

 

We are back to normal these days, routine conversation no yelling (almost) but not much love either. The house selling preparation is keeping us busy. Although even though we had the divorce conversation the last time I feel that she doesn’t believe that it could actually be a possibility. Her mind is also very occupied with another house investment we recently done. We moved way too fast with that one, and I was stupid enough to agree to it, in fear of retaliation i believe now. Anyway it’s not bothering me at all ( divorce is) and she’s making an effort to not talk about it too much but I can feel she’s miserable and under pressure.

 

Because of that I retain any conversation about us or our future together. I don’t want her to get into a depression.

 

On my side the more I think about all this the more I just want to get out. She initiated sex Recently but like pretty much every time I feel that she is not enjoying it, and neither I’m I.

 

 

I’ll just wait until that stupid transaction is done and go from there.

 

Thanks again for your support!

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There is a lot you can be doing in the mean time so get to work!

 

With all your assets and real estate you need some good legal advice sooner rather than later. You may just want out but six months to a year after it is all over many people look back with regret that they gave everything away just to escape. Plan on being fair but look out for yourself and your children first. Your wife will be just fine.

 

Personally you need to start preparing yourself mentally and emotionally to be a single father. I don't know what shape you are in but I would bet you could stand to get in better physical shape too.

Make more of an effort with the kids. Do more things together just the 2 or 3 of you. Simple things like going to the park, picking them up from school, meeting their teachers, knowing all their appointments and taking them. Being a single dad is pretty awesome once you get the hang of it. Remember to always try your best no matter what you do with them, they will appreciate you.

 

You could also start jotting down some rough financial numbers and keep it in a safe place. If you and your wife own several houses then living arrangements should be pretty simple if they are not currently occupied.

 

I am not saying rush to divorce but if you do a little at a time it is way less scary.

 

I hung in there way too long with a cheating wife so my situation was way different but only you know your wife well enough to know if there is a glimmer of hope to save this. When the time comes to have the divorce talk again think about offering two options.

1. Extensive therapy AND marriage counseling or

2. Start working on the divorce process

 

Even if the therapy and counseling doesn't work it may help you both make your way through the divorce and even one day be friendly towards each other.

 

Keep posting, it helps

 

Lost

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We had the discussion and it was really painful.

She felt that I was cold with her these past few days and indeed I was troubled with all the implications of divorce going through my mind. While we was still worrying about our latest investment. Constantly thinking and taking about it. That made me sad that her investment problem were more important than what we are going through.

 

Not sure about the status of things now but I think divorce is the best for both but now she believes that we should not and that things will get better after this rough pass. She was putting the blame on me for no longer wanting to try.ive been feeling like the one who did try the most throughout our entire relationship while she’s been the bringing up divorce and complaining about how bad I am.

 

Lost, your last post made me smile. I’m in very good shape I train an hour every morning (while she refuses to do any sports or activities...too tired) and the I get up the kids and give them breakfast while missy get her make up ready, we then go our separate way to daycare and school and then work.

 

In the evening I pick up the kids while she prepared dinner. I’m the one who take care of the homework and communicate with teacher. I bring the kids to their weekend activity. Compare to many of my friends and family men, I know that I do more than the average guy.

 

I know we had a good thing going but these last month with all the complaints, yelling, pressure and bad sex, I’ve just became feed up.

 

But now I feel like the bad guy because I’m the one who’s shattering the family, she doesn’t want to take any of the blame. She says that she still love me and things will get better. But I fear I’m lying to myself thinking that it could get back to how things were. The thought of the greener grass is also still very present..,

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