She was hit on by one of her friends

[Hollyj]

Well, I can safely say I’ve plateaud in this discussion. This is the biggest point that I honestly know it’s true. I just still don’t know what I’m gonna do.

 

I knew things would result this way.

[JulianAR]

Unfortunately your relationship sounds controlling and suffocating and unhealthy. This lack of autonomy and policing and patrolling is quite toxic. Change all the pass codes, get some boundaries and learn what trust vs paranoia is. So what? A friend flirted with her, does that require some sort of true confession?

 

Well we had that before and that didn’t work. So we took a different approach. Would you honestly be okay in my position? It seems you have a much looser concept of a relationship than I do.

[JulianAR]

Judged? No, not judging at all. Tough love for sure. People are trying to help you. However, you are deflecting all the advice, arguing while trying to cloak it all as "discussion". Lofty words don't change facts. Nobody here has a pony in your life and your choices. One thing about these boards is that you are going to get honest advice rather than a pat on the back and a carry on as is.

 

Whether you can accept the advice or not, that's a different matter. I don't think you are anywhere near ready to accept and that's OK. People move at their own pace. We do have plenty of posters come back later and say that at the time they weren't ready to hear the advice, but some months later came back and read it and were in a different frame, ready for it and it finally helped. It is what it is.

 

I personally don’t like asking questions on the internet without knowing where my answers are coming from. That’s all. But I appreciate that you know you’re trying to help.

[JulianAR]

I knew things would result this way.

 

I’m sorry but if all the people on this board you really helped the least.

[Seraphim]

If it was today , most likely. We have been together our entire adult lives, we share an adult child. We have had amazing times and really really shyte times. If I was a year and a bit into a relationship I don’t think so.

 

I think it is too different to compare.

With which I agree. Actually I’d like to ask, and I hope you do t think I’m being too personal—feel free to avoid my post if it is—if you lost trust in your husband today do you think it would merit working on or would that just be the level of trust you work with from that point on? Yes, our relationships are different, but I want to give a challenging perspective to test your personal perspectives on relationships if that’s okay. Feel free to tell me it’s not.

[Wiseman2]

Trust didn't work? Yes going through phones needing to have passcodes etc is weird to me. However honesty, trust, good communication and basic integrity is not weird to me. If someone lacks so much integrity that policing a phone is happening, it's a sign that you need to take the next exit off that highway.

Well we had that before and that didn’t work. So we took a different approach. Would you honestly be okay in my position? It seems you have a much looser concept of a relationship than I do.

[bluecastle]

Here's some tough math to compute.

 

Let's hypothetical this a bit, since you like hypotheticals. She keeps on living, growing, maturing. Comes further into herself and comes to see certain things she's doing now—like having saucy exchanges with randoms while having a boyfriend—as childish, silly, boring, naive, unsatisfying. She evolves into a confident, self-possessed woman of 25 or 27 or 30. How do you think that woman is going to view a 27-year-old man who is obsessing over a 20-year-old woman, scrolling through her phone, and so on?

 

Odds are she will find that dude kind of lost, not on the level she wants for a deep, mature, sustainable romance.

 

And therein lies the rub, you see? For her to be the person you want her to be she has to outgrow you, which means for you to be the person you want to be you need to do some growing yourself, rather than trying to grow her up as a false reward for you personal growth.

 

Not fun to read, I know. I've been in versions of your shoes, rest assured. The only way out of them is....to get out of them. To turn the spotlight away from her and onto you.

[Hollyj]

I’m sorry but if all the people on this board you really helped the least.

 

Don't take it out on me.

 

"But the biggest problem I have with this conversation is that despite him getting fresh with her initially she still insists that they should drink together—not in her bedroom but his."

This should have been enough for you. And, you have so little trust that yo have to police her phone.

 

You have trust issues with this kid, but want to continue.

[JulianAR]

Trust didn't work? Yes going through phones needing to have passcodes etc is weird to me. However honesty, trust, good communication and basic integrity is not weird to me. If someone lacks so much integrity that policing a phone is happening, it's a sign that you need to take the next exit off that highway.

 

Well, from your perspective yeah, you have a point. If I wanted to work on it though, do you think it merits that if I value the relationship enough to do so?

[JulianAR]

Here's some tough math to compute.

 

Let's hypothetical this a bit, since you like hypotheticals. She keeps on living, growing, maturing. Comes further into herself and comes to see certain things she's doing now—like having saucy exchanges with randoms while having a boyfriend—as childish, silly, boring, naive, unsatisfying. She evolves into a confident, self-possessed woman of 25 or 27 or 30. How do you think that woman is going to view a 27-year-old man who is obsessing over a 20-year-old woman, scrolling through her phone, and so on?

 

Odds are she will find that dude kind of lost, not on the level she wants for a deep, mature, sustainable romance.

 

And therein lies the rub, you see? For her to be the person you want her to be she has to outgrow you, which means for you to be the person you want to be you need to do some growing yourself, rather than trying to grow her up as a false reward for you personal growth.

 

Not fun to read, I know. I've been in versions of your shoes, rest assured. The only way out of them is....to get out of them. To turn the spotlight away from her and onto you.

 

I actually like this answer a lot. And I’m glad you engaged in this discussion with me because I agree with it. Maybe understandin what you said will help me make a decision that’s going to be hard for me to make.

[JulianAR]

Don't take it to on me.

 

"But the biggest problem I have with this conversation is that despite him getting fresh with her initially she still insists that they should drink together—not in her bedroom but his."

This should have been enough for you. And, you have so little trust that yo have to police her phone.

 

You have trust issues with this kid, but want to continue.

 

I’m not taking it out on you, I just didn’t get any help from you. If my trust issues can’t be worked on I’d like to know why. It seems you have a pretty black and white viewpoint though. I personally want a more in depth answer because obviously not every relationship is black and white. That being said, you’re not wrong. Maybe that should be enough for me. I don’t know for sure yet.

[Hollyj]

I’m not taking it out on you, I just didn’t get any help from you. If my trust issues can’t be worked on I’d like to know why. It seems you have a pretty black and white viewpoint though. I personally want a more in depth answer because obviously not every relationship is black and white. That being said, you’re not wrong. Maybe that should be enough for me. I don’t know for sure yet.

 

I hope you find your answer soon.

 

Would you agree to stop checking her phone?

[JulianAR]

I hope you find your answer soon.

 

Would you agree to stop checking her phone?

 

If I hadn’t seen those texts then I would have, no question, immediately upon her request to change our relationship back again and certainly no more after my last brief bored stroll through her phone. I honestly really barely did it as it was, I just happened to come across those recent texts by chance when I wasn’t looking for them at all. But now I have something to consider at the moment, and it may not end well.

[reinventmyself]

for the most part that she is loyal.

.

 

That's like kinda being pregnant.

Either you are or you aren't.

[itsallgrand]

Have you had any relationships that weren't like this?

Honestly, I wouldn't even clock this on my radar as an actual relationship. It's the screwing around, trying to figure out what a relationship is dating thing. And that's fine if you want to spend your time on that, but at least recognize it for what it is.

I suspect you are stuck in this zone for whatever reason, and that's why you are not bored stiff with this nonsense.

Maybe you don't want someone who has themselves together.

[Rose Mosse]

Your post #1 (last paragraph) references waiting for her to tell you things. You've already made your decision to wait. Your next plan should be to give yourself a timeline of how long your patience can extend for. It's as simple as that.

 

Second, I'd ask yourself why she may feel the need to have attention from other third parties. Do you do the same thing with other women? Some relationships are built on many insecurities and exist all on their own based on those insecurities feeding off of each other. If you have questionable contacts and connections or close relationships or partnerships in various activities and interests you partake in that can be at any time misconstrued, you both may want to look at how your chemistry has come about based on those compounded insecurities. If either one of you or both of you are undervaluing the other or not coming together as equals, you'll have many problems.

[Wiseman2]

This sounds like a suspicious dad and a naughty teen. You're correct because most parent-child relationships do not end well.

-she doesn’t tell me important things like how one of her friends just got sweet with her over text, and that has me worried. Allow me to explain.

we know all of each other’s passcodes to everything.

I’m scrolling through her phone

[saluk]

Have you asked her about this conversation and why she didn't shut him down more? Tell her you feel like she is just holding onto you until something better comes along, because of the way she said she "still has you". If she complains that you are too jealous, just explain that you are afraid to lose her and that's why you are looking through her conversations for any evidence that she may have one foot out the door and prove your fears true.

 

I'm being a little mean, but here's the thing. The age/maturity difference here is a real thing. You know it's a real thing. And the fact that its a real thing has weighed on you for some time. You don't have the same perspectives on what the relationship is and if you are going to work on things as you seem to want, you're going to have to figure out how to reconcile those differences. Which may or may not be possible. It's time to stop just carrying on as things are and hoping things don't fall apart and see whether or not you can bridge that divide.

[MissCanuck]

Trust her or not, she ain't that invested in you, OP.

 

You might want to work on it. Problem is? She clearly doesn't care enough to do the heavy lifting required of her. You can't work on this alone. If she is still flirting and making plans to go "drinking" in some other dude's bedroom, working on your relationship is not on her radar. She's having too much fun tempting fate.

 

I behaved like her a bit when I was 19, 20. Having fun, flirting, soaking up male attention when I shouldn't have been. Indulging in just-risky-enough behaviour to get my thrills while not actually cheating. I had been with my then-boyfriend a couple years by that point, too. We were fully integrated in each others' lives. However, I clearly wasn't ready to settle down and be seriously committed. Your girl isn't either, no matter how badly you want her to be. We spent a few years together before I broke up with him. Did I regret the way I acted? Yes, on many occasions. Did I regret ending it with him? No. I wasn't into him enough anymore to continue. My selfish behaviour was just the manifestation of my immaturity and lack of true desire to stay with him.

 

This relationship won't be the one that lasts a lifetime for you. You might be ready for that type of commitment. She isn't. She will cycle through a couple more boyfriends first, making immature mistakes, going back and forth between regretting her actions but not totally regretting them, either. I have a feeling you will stick around, but she will be the one who ultimately pulls the plug.

[bluecastle]

Trust her or not, she ain't that invested in you, OP.

 

You might want to work on it. Problem is? She clearly doesn't care enough to do the heavy lifting required of her. You can't work on this alone. If she is still flirting and making plans to go "drinking" in some other dude's bedroom, working on your relationship is not on her radar. She's having too much fun tempting fate.

 

I behaved like her a bit when I was 19, 20. Having fun, flirting, soaking up male attention when I shouldn't have been. Indulging in just-risky-enough behaviour to get my thrills while not actually cheating. I had been with my then-boyfriend a couple years by that point, too. We were fully integrated in each others' lives. However, I clearly wasn't ready to settle down and be seriously committed. Your girl isn't either, no matter how badly you want her to be. We spent a few years together before I broke up with him. Did I regret the way I acted? Yes, on many occasions. Did I regret ending it with him? No. I wasn't into him enough anymore to continue. My selfish behaviour was just the manifestation of my immaturity and lack of true desire to stay with him.

 

This relationship won't be the one that lasts a lifetime for you. You might be ready for that type of commitment. She isn't. She will cycle through a couple more boyfriends first, making immature mistakes, going back and forth between regretting her actions but not totally regretting them, either. I have a feeling you will stick around, but she will be the one who ultimately pulls the plug.

 

Great post.

 

I very much agree with the bold. I think for you, OP, the idea of "making this work" is actually less connected to your feelings about her, and belief in the genuine potential between you two, than it is connected to an idea of yourself that you want to make work. If this can be fix then you can look in the mirror and see a mature, committed man—or something along those lines.

 

Does she know this, on some level? Sense it? Probably. When "deep feelings" are expressed through jealousy, possessiveness, and control—phones, sharing passwords, etc.—it does not register with most humans as being genuine, because it's not. It's a bit corroded, leaves a bad taste.

 

However long you ride these waves, I do suggest that you not blame her but accept, now, that you are willingly engaging in a risky dynamic. If you "lose"—meaning if one day, next month or next year, she decides to end it—you are not a victim. When we process things like that we tend to search for the same dynamics in new people rather than digging deep so we can create new dynamics with people better suited to us, our needs, and our station in life.

[maew]

I’ve been told relationships take work. Isn’t this the work people are talking about? If it’s not a deal breaker it can be worked on, can’t it?

 

No... the work people are talking about is working on themselves, in the context of being a better partner to the other, not on changing the other person.

 

She doesn’t want to change so that leaves you with either accepting her or moving on.

[maew]

Trust her or not, she ain't that invested in you, OP.

 

You might want to work on it. Problem is? She clearly doesn't care enough to do the heavy lifting required of her. You can't work on this alone. If she is still flirting and making plans to go "drinking" in some other dude's bedroom, working on your relationship is not on her radar. She's having too much fun tempting fate.

 

I behaved like her a bit when I was 19, 20. Having fun, flirting, soaking up male attention when I shouldn't have been. Indulging in just-risky-enough behaviour to get my thrills while not actually cheating. I had been with my then-boyfriend a couple years by that point, too. We were fully integrated in each others' lives. However, I clearly wasn't ready to settle down and be seriously committed. Your girl isn't either, no matter how badly you want her to be. We spent a few years together before I broke up with him. Did I regret the way I acted? Yes, on many occasions. Did I regret ending it with him? No. I wasn't into him enough anymore to continue. My selfish behaviour was just the manifestation of my immaturity and lack of true desire to stay with him.

 

This relationship won't be the one that lasts a lifetime for you. You might be ready for that type of commitment. She isn't. She will cycle through a couple more boyfriends first, making immature mistakes, going back and forth between regretting her actions but not totally regretting them, either. I have a feeling you will stick around, but she will be the one who ultimately pulls the plug.

 

This is a great post!

[smackie9]

IMO it's all about what things you shouldn't have to do and one of them is having access to each other's devices. If you have to look in order to make sure they are honest, then you yourself are not in the right relationship.