Project Dating!

[Ian4996]

400! Wow!

 

Did you find it hard to remain enthusiastic and positive throughout your 100+ dates Batya? And out of interest, what percentage roughly would you say led to 2nd dates? And then to say 5th dates?

 

The main thing that's making me reticent about going back on Tinder / Pof is the sending out of the initial messages. I don't mind at all making the effort with the messaging once a conversation's under way - but I find it hard mentally if I've sat down for 30 minutes / 45 minutes to type out 10 / 12 first messages, making each one unique to the recipient and then none of them are replied to. I probably will do it, it just doesn't fill me with enthusiasm....................it feels like walking into the kitchen and seeing a massive pile of washing up to do and thinking 'uggggghhh I can't be bothered' :D

[Batya33]

400! Wow!

 

Did you find it hard to remain enthusiastic and positive throughout your 100+ dates Batya? And out of interest, what percentage roughly would you say led to 2nd dates? And then to say 5th dates?

 

The main thing that's making me reticent about going back on Tinder / Pof is the sending out of the initial messages. I don't mind at all making the effort with the messaging once a conversation's under way - but I find it hard mentally if I've sat down for 30 minutes / 45 minutes to type out 10 / 12 first messages, making each one unique to the recipient and then none of them are replied to. I probably will do it, it just doesn't fill me with enthusiasm....................it feels like walking into the kitchen and seeing a massive pile of washing up to do and thinking 'uggggghhh I can't be bothered' :D

 

Yes of course at times it felt like a job but a job with an incredibly worthwhile goal.

 

My stats to the best I remember - about half the time -maybe a bit more- I was interested in seeing the person again -and about half the time he was. About 1/3rd of the time I guess it was mutual so we planned to see each other again if that makes sense. As far as more than 4-5 dates- meaning getting into short term relationship category. I was engaged to a guy I met through a personal ad (print), 6 months dating with another personal ad guy and I had about 6-10 lasted to 4th date, and probably about 5-6 that lasted beyond. Longest relationship from an online site was about three months I think? Several of my friends met their spouses/committed partners through online sites including one who met her second husband a few years ago through Tinder -married I think 2 years now? One of my closest friends of 25 years met his wife through an online site in 1999, married 2001.

 

There is one reason my husband and I didn't reconnect through online sites -well, maybe two. (we dated in the past seriously, broke up, reconnected almost 8 years later). He made a big mistake on his profile such that he wasn't going to come up in searches for people like me who speak English even though he is an English speaker lol. I think I found his profile once when I was doing a more in depth search. We weren't together at the time and he was not online for very long. Reason 2 is he lived out of state during part of that time so perhaps his geographic restrictions were incompatible with mine. My point is, he was online, we met a different way but we easily could have met online instead. Query whether we would have connected in the same way -I say yes but I am open to discussion on that point!!

 

If marriage/family had not been my goal I absolutely would not have bothered since I was working an intense job, more than full time, and doing volunteer work and had an active social life etc so the time I put in (not time in messaging -we met in person ASAP after two emails and usually one phone call, maybe two -with rare exception) in meeting people, getting ready to meet them, perusing the profiles - only worth it because of what I wanted out of life. All that time I spent was worth it. I certainly got in my own way far too much though. I used it as one way to meet people. I pursued as many activities and events as possible to meet people. I've also been setting people up -playing matchmaker -for many years so when you do that people return the favor (I still do that despite being married!)

[bluecastle]

I can't help but feel you're presently a bit too caught up in the world of dating apps rather than the world of dating. There is a distinction, not an insignificant one, much like the distinction between social media and our actual social lives.

 

Dating apps are a lot like social media: addictive, validating, hollowing. That is what makes them success business ventures, but, ironically, it's what can potentially make them very detrimental to actual dating. The thrill of a new "match" is a bit like the thrill of getting a "like"—a little jolt of dopamine that tends to be followed by a little crash. If we're not careful we can find ourselves as focused on getting that hit of dopamine as much, if not more, than we're focused on connecting with actual human beings—the "dating" equivalent of going on a trip just to be able to post cool stuff on Instagram.

 

Best, in my opinion, to learn to handle all that rather than focus on finding ways to keep the dopamine flooding in. Best to always remember that they are simply a tool for connecting—one of many out there, including just walking out your door—rather than a meaningful addition to our lives in and of themselves. So whether you use one or three or more doesn't really matter; what matters is how you use them.

 

Per an earlier exchange of ours, I ended up talking to my girlfriend yesterday a bit about her experience with online dating. Came up in the context of a friend. She said she'd only tried it a bit and was primarily put off by what that hit of "match" dopamine did to her brain. She didn't want to be wired to seek that pleasure since it risked retooling how (a) she wanted dating to feel like and (b) how she wanted to feel in her own skin. When she downloaded them again and swiped around, primarily out of boredom, I was her only match—what a tiny needle it turned out I threaded! That we didn't discuss any of that until 8 months in, I think, shows how little stock either of us place in dating apps.

 

Anyhow, I thought what she said was interesting—how she kind of recognized the effect they could have, wiring her to be incapable of going a day or three without a "match," and that she just didn't want to become that person. I had a different approach, or a different approach to get to a similar place, provably because I just had more experience with the apps. (She'd been married for a decade.) I'd used them pretty heavily, in ways good, bad, lame, lusty, and so on, back 2014, so when I went back on them last year after being in three year relationship, I wasn't really hung up on the seductive weirdness of the platform so much as curious about what that platform could get me. And if it got me nothing but a dry spell—all good. I've got plenty of sources of dopamine flooding that won't mess with my romantic wiring.

 

In the three weeks since you started this journal it sounds like you've had a very good run. You don't have a girlfriend, sure, but you've had some nice chats, some flutters, some connections, some missed connections. Can you really ask for more? Is a week or two without all that such a dismal thing to imagine? Nah, didn't think so. I say set up profiles on the others, but make sure to not give either the highs of multiple matches or the lows of a dry spell more credit than they deserve.

[Ian4996]

It's really interesting to get an idea on the numbers. Out of 100+ first dates, 6-10 lasted to the 4th date - I guess that just shows how persistent you have to be and how the vast majority of people are just not going to be your match.

The would you have connected with your husband the same way online debate is an interesting one. I think it maybe depends how instant the attraction is - I think attraction has to be pretty instant online as otherwise one person can dismiss the other with the 'no spark' thing. Whereas in person, I think attraction can sometimes grow over time.

 

Updates (Monday 26th August)

 

Today's been quite an interesting day in terms of a realisation I've made about where I've been going wrong with these dates. I posted yesterday saying that I felt I was possibly being a bit too passive and nice and that this acting effectively as a platonic friend was resulting in me being repeatedly 'friendzoned' (which is exactly what has been happening).

 

The reason I say that today's been interesting is that I had a good text chat with Emily (who I went on a date with a couple weeks back) today and she said basically exactly what I've said above, that I'm 'too nice' and alluded to needing someone less passive, with more bravado and sexuality. This is, ironically, how I've been at some points in the past and thinking back, it's always when I've had this more confident sexual attitude that I've effectively attracted women.

 

So anyway, this conversation was a bit of an eye-opener and I've made a bit of a vow that I'm going to be less passive in future dates. More flirting, more teasing, the odd innuendo, a bit more touchy feely (obviously well within reason!), all the things to build up a bit of sexual tension. I think I can still be a 'nice guy' while doing these things but basically be less of a passive platonic friend and more of a man.

 

Other things from today: had a drink with Claire this afternoon. She was very much not my match unfortunately. I realised quite quickly that I wasn't really physically attracted to her but we were having a good chat nontheless (with quite a bit of teasing and banter involved). However, we had different views on something that we were debating and it was one of those situations where it was clear we had a different opinion on the subject matter but I was enjoying the debate - I'm quite a curious person and I was enjoying hearing her different point of view. It became apparent that Claire wasn't though! - all of a sudden, she said 'I don't even know why I'm justifying myself to you. I'm going to the toilet', picked up her bag and stormed off. The date ended very quickly after that and then this evening, I saw that she'd deleted / blocked me from both Whatsapp and Bumble.

I did a little bit of self-analysis afterwards: 'did I say anything wrong / offensive there to provoke that reaction?' but my honest answer to that is that no I didn't. It was just 2 people having a debate and 1 person couldn't handle the other person having a different point of view. I'm quite an honest analytical person (which I think probably comes across in my writing of this journal) and I can be my own worst critic at times but I'm definitely not going to lose any sleep over this incident.

 

Also, I've set up Tinder and have quickly got 11 matches, with which I've started conversations with 8 of them, all of which, to my amazement, have replied! A couple of the conversations have already died out (very short answers, not asking any questions back) but I have got one girl (Casey) agree to a date next Tuesday night. I've also arranged to meet Sara (who cancelled last Friday's date) tomorrow afternoon, so will see how that goes :D

[Ian4996]

I posted the above before I saw your message Bluecastle, so I'll just reply to a couple of things in there now.

 

I can't help but feel you're presently a bit too caught up in the world of dating apps rather than the world of dating. There is a distinction, not an insignificant one, much like the distinction between social media and our actual social lives.

 

I definitely agree with you that dating apps can be an addictive thing similar to social media. Being honest though, I'd definitely say that right now, I'm seeing them as a means to get dates rather than a means to get a dopamine boost from a match or a message (which is kind of how I have been in the past). I'd agree that it is a bit of an ego boost to open my phone in the morning and have several new messages but I do feel I'm focused on the overall objective of getting real-life dates.

 

In the three weeks since you started this journal it sounds like you've had a very good run. You don't have a girlfriend, sure, but you've had some nice chats, some flutters, some connections, some missed connections. Can you really ask for more?

 

Yeah I agree, it's not been a bad 3 weeks all in all. I think in terms of the can I ask for more, I'd like to not repeatedly be getting 'friendzoned'! But as I discussed in my previous post, I feel quite enlightened into seeing why that is. Getting that feedback first-hand from someone I've actually been on a date with has really helped confirm in my mind what I was already thinking myself.

[bluecastle]

Love your attitude.

 

Sounds to me like you're shedding a kind of husk, evolving, coming into sharper focus to yourself—and, in the process, maybe you let go of some core ingredients that are still, you know, you. You were saying as much yourself—and, hey, Emily gave you a little gut-check.

 

You remind me a bit of my best friend, in the way you analyze all this, including yourself. Him, for instance? A year ago he got out of a 1.5 year long relationship that, upon careful analysis, he realized was too much driven by sex. Result? He has spent much of his year dating "putting sex off," as if that's the answer. But his execution is, to put it generously, clumsy. He still jumps into bed with women early, though now it's in order to not have sex with them, as if "tapping the breaks" just before the underwear comes off sends a clear message that he is interested in "more" than sex. I've kind of been trying to tell him that the message he might be sending is that he's kind of all over the map emotionally, rather than the planet's wokest male, that he is more than allowed to be interested in both sex and something more than sex.

 

Small adjustments, is the point, though sometimes we have overcompensate in our course corrections to steady out.

[Batya33]

I do want to point out -this was 100 first meets not dates. Some lasted less than an hour - either they were scheduled that way or I discovered a lie upon meeting so I cut things short. A couple of times I had two or three in a day. No one asked anyone out for the first meets. They were not meant to be dates. My guess is thinking about it I probably went on 4 dates with more than 10 of them but I was following your parameters so since that's not how I thought about it I had to try to remember -been a long time! I am still FB friends with some and friendly with one who didn't meet until he invited me on a first date with someone he'd had a first meet with the previous evening (I know, weird, we never did meet up because of distance and the conditions he put on that situation-we've now met three or four times in person)

 

I do not think you should be touchy feely on a first meet unless she initiates and i wouldn't go too far with that unless you see that person as more like fling material. Lighthearted banter and flirting -sure!

[bluecastle]

I do not think you should be touchy feely on a first meet unless she initiates and i wouldn't go too far with that unless you see that person as more like fling material. Lighthearted banter and flirting -sure!

 

Agree with this—and meant to say something similar.

 

If you go into any of this with a set agenda, be it being "touchy" by hour x or being "super extra ultra respectful" until hour y, chances are you won't come off as genuine but like a Man With A Plan. You're likely to strike a woman as someone who is nodding cordially while internally wondering if now is the time to get touchy, or like someone who is nodding cordially while internally wondering if those cordial nods are being interpreted as appealingly kind rather than frustratingly passive.

 

Or, more simply, you'll come across as someone who is eager to be impressive—and eager to get what he wants—rather than someone who is just being themselves and interested in getting to know another person. All people want is someone who is genuine and genuinely curious about them.

 

My good friend, mentioned above? He will often report, after dates, that he "went in for a kiss," that he "got a kiss," and, not uncommon, that he sometimes "went in" but got "turned down." I'm always mystified, as it's so different than the way my mind works. I think of kisses, touches, and so on, as something that kind of happens together, very organically, when the time is right, not so different than the various turns a conversation can take—jokey one minute, more serious the next. Maybe it's an hour in, maybe a month in. It's not what I'm sitting across from someone thinking about.

 

So, yeah, unbutton that metaphorical collar a bit and be your genuine, flirty, charming self. The touches will come when the time is right. Build that together, rather than constructing the blueprint in your mind and using the dates to construct it in reality.

[boltnrun]

If some guy came at me trying to "be a man" I'd leave immediately.

 

Being a man doesn't mean putting your hands on a woman or diving in trying to kiss her.

 

Read her clues instead of trying to adhere to some game plan that you think makes you look "manly".

[Batya33]

If some guy came at me trying to "be a man" I'd leave immediately.

 

Being a man doesn't mean putting your hands on a woman or diving in trying to kiss her.

 

Read her clues instead of trying to adhere to some game plan that you think makes you look "manly".

 

I'd say the same thing about your wanting to be "nice" -what do you mean by "nice" that is any different from interacting with a new person in an appropriate and thoughtful and pleasant way - with basic common sense. It sounds like you're trying to play some role with "nice" and then "manly"

[Ian4996]

I do want to point out -this was 100 first meets not dates. Some lasted less than an hour

 

I think we just use different words to mean the same thing. If I meet a girl off a dating app for a quick coffee, I tend to use the word 'date' whereas you use the word 'meet'. I wouldn't say I'm implying anything by the word 'date' though, it's just my choice of word.

 

If you go into any of this with a set agenda, be it being "touchy" by hour x or being "super extra ultra respectful" until hour y, chances are you won't come off as genuine but like a Man With A Plan.

 

I'd agree with having no set fixed agenda. For me, I wouldn't say that I have this sort of set agenda - it's more about incorporating a bit of flirtiness / teasing etc (all those attraction building things) into my natural personality. I think some people have those sort of positive traits very very naturally, so they don't have to give them any thought at all whereas I think for other people such as myself, we have to give them a bit more thought.

I'll give an example of the above - compliments. There's people I know who are naturally very complimentary of others but I'm not naturally one of them - I don't mean to be rude, I just don't think to. When I do give people compliments, they're nearly always greeted but a big smile in appreciation, but unless I remind myself to give them, I tend not to think to. I'm not running to a set agenda, I'm just having to remind myself to do that.

But I see it as a gradual self-improvement thing (not just for dating, but for general life) - the more I remind myself to pay compliments (for example), the more I think it will eventually become something that I do automatically.

 

Being a man doesn't mean putting your hands on a woman or diving in trying to kiss her

 

I agree

 

I'd say the same thing about your wanting to be "nice" -what do you mean by "nice" that is any different from interacting with a new person in an appropriate and thoughtful and pleasant way - with basic common sense. It sounds like you're trying to play some role with "nice" and then "manly"

 

I think it's being 'too nice' more than 'nice' that's been the problem in my dates prior to today. I think I've been passive and this has contributed to the repeated feedback of 'you're a really nice guy but there was no spark etc etc etc'

[Batya33]

Yes. Passive isn't nice. It's just .... passive. I agree that being passive is not an attractive quality when interacting with new people especially.

 

I am puzzled about why it doesn't occur to you to notice positive things about the person you're with -not in a gushing way but "oh -interesting! I like the way you put that!" or "it sounds like you went out of your way to be thoughtful" for example. Is it possible you're too absorbed in deciding what you want to say next that you're not focusing on what the other person is saying -or you're focused on what that person might be thinking of you? Do you find it interesting to learn about people, find out what makes them tick, etc? I don't think you have to lavish the compliments. Just show you are listening with appropriate follow up questions. I have a new friend at my job - we have lunch every few months or so -we do not work together - and she said to me some months ago "you're a good listener- you ask good follow up questions." Asking someone a good follow up question can come across also as complimentary -the person feels listened to and valued. Try it!

[Ian4996]

Updates (Tuesday 27th August)

 

Had an excellent date with Sara this afternoon. We met at a canal-side pub and had a drink in the beer garden before taking my dog for a long walk around the nearby lake. I'd been reading a couple of articles on the Internet beforehand about making dates / conversations less platonic and more sexual and I made an effort to put the ideas into practise. We got on well, she's a nice girl and the whole date was a lot of fun. We ended up having a very heavy make out session in a secluded nature reserve lookout hut and have been texting this evening about setting up a 2nd date.

 

I've also, surprisingly, now got a 2nd date lined up with Emily this Thursday night. I say surprisingly as she initially 'friendzoned' me after the first date a few weeks ago, although we get on well and have good banter. This 2nd date stemmed from our text chat yesterday where she told me I'm 'way too nice' and that I'm 'a nice Christian boy'. This then led to quite a very flirtatious text interaction that then led to the suggestion and acceptance of a 2nd date this Thursday night. I like Emily - we vibe very very well and she's got a very down-to-earth blunt nature that I like a lot.

 

Few other Tinder chats ongoing, although I'm finding the drop off rate on Tinder is very high - a lot of girls who respond to the 1st message don't respond to the 2nd. I think a lot of that is down to the sheer number of people on Tinder compared to Bumble - I think people (unsurprisingly) find it impossible to maintain more than a few conversations simultaneously.

[Batya33]

Sounds good! Why haven't you scheduled a second date yet with Sara -just logistics?

[Ian4996]

I am puzzled about why it doesn't occur to you to notice positive things about the person you're with -not in a gushing way but "oh -interesting! I like the way you put that!" or "it sounds like you went out of your way to be thoughtful" for example. Is it possible you're too absorbed in deciding what you want to say next that you're not focusing on what the other person is saying -or you're focused on what that person might be thinking of you? Do you find it interesting to learn about people, find out what makes them tick, etc? I don't think you have to lavish the compliments. Just show you are listening with appropriate follow up questions. I have a new friend at my job - we have lunch every few months or so -we do not work together - and she said to me some months ago "you're a good listener- you ask good follow up questions." Asking someone a good follow up question can come across also as complimentary -the person feels listened to and valued. Try it!

 

The things you've suggested in there are things that I'm naturally pretty bad at but I've been working a lot on them over the past year or 2 as part of my general self-improvement. I'm not totally where I want to be with them by any means. But I would definitely say that, particularly with the listening and the follow-up questions, I've improved a heck of a lot and that, as a result, I'm a warmer, sociable and more well-liked person than I was a couple of years back.

 

I've also been reading a Leil Lowndes book called 'How to make anyone fall in love with you'. It isn't just a 'how to attract a partner type book', it's more about becoming a generally warm and welcoming person who others want to be around. The things you've suggested above are more or less exactly the things that she discusses in this book. I get that people might think that reading this sort of book is weird and that you should just 'be natural' / 'be yourself' but I feel that very much depends on how naturally these personality traits come to you. For me, I'm not a natural, and so they're things that I have to consciously work on, while others maybe wouldn't.

 

Sounds good! Why haven't you scheduled a second date yet with Sara -just logistics?

 

I texted her about 15 minutes ago saying 'cool, when are you free?' (after she said 'yeah definitely up for a 2nd date') but she hasn't replied as yet. So it's just in the process.

[bluecastle]

Rather than put it in terms of "too nice" or "more flirty/teasing" I think the question you want to be asking is: Do you feel like you're being yourself on dates? In fact, I'd put it a bit more existentially: Do you feel, these days, that you are confident and comfortable being yourself?

 

Because at the end of the day you want someone to feel the spark with the authentic you, not a you edited and curated to elicit more sparks since that will be a kind of performative version of yourself that will invariably be a challenge to uphold. Masks get heavy, performances get tiring.

 

I dated for a little over a year before meeting my girlfriend, following a six month period of being purely single that was great for doing some self-examination without it being connected to how others might examine me. Partly why the ups and downs weren't so exhausting, I think, is that I feel pretty confident that I presented authentically to the dozens of women I went out with. Or, put another way: I don't think I behaved any differently on any first dates than I would if you and I met up for a beer, or if I was just sitting and reading alone at the bar. Hard to be exhausted when you're just being you.

 

Did every woman like me and want to see me again? Of course not. Did every woman have the exact same impression? Nope, because they were each viewing me through their own unique lenses. I don't take any of it too personally, though, because I like who I am and don't need to be everyone's cup of tea. The irony is that, judging from my own feedback from the opposite sex, I think it's one of my appealing qualities: I'm not trying to get things from people, or perform for them in order to extract something.

 

It's wild how much you remind me of my friend I keep mentioning. He's a data engineer and has this kind of "optimization" mindset with everything—how to optimize his productivity, his sleep cycles, his water intake, the route we take to go surfing, his paddle out while surfing, and, yes, his success in dating. It's all endearing, and probably keeps him more hydrated than me, but I often find myself nudging him to just, well, be the person with women that he is with me. I ask him if he feels like he needs to optimize himself to be my friend, and when he says no I say: Well, that's how it should be with a woman.

 

Batya makes a great point about how we can fail to listen when we're overly focused on how someone is perceiving us. I'm also often told that I'm a good listener, someone people like talking to. A big part of my job is asking questions, listening, trying to understand what makes people tick, so it's all very engrained in who I am. I do find it interesting that you say it's something you're working on, since you ask a lot of questions of us here. You're not trying to date us, of course, but I assume you're feeling like yourself as you write these posts. How you feel with Sara or Emily shouldn't be any different.

[bluecastle]

I've also been reading a Leil Lowndes book called 'How to make anyone fall in love with you'. It isn't just a 'how to attract a partner type book', it's more about becoming a generally warm and welcoming person who others want to be around. The things you've suggested above are more or less exactly the things that she discusses in this book. I get that people might think that reading this sort of book is weird and that you should just 'be natural' / 'be yourself' but I feel that very much depends on how naturally these personality traits come to you. For me, I'm not a natural, and so they're things that I have to consciously work on, while others maybe wouldn't.

 

I hadn't read this when I replied, and realize I may very much sound like one of those people saying, "Don't read about being you, just be you!"

 

I don't mean it that way. I'm a gobbler of information, a big reader, with much of it geared toward better understanding myself—knowing, and getting cozy, with the full spectrum that is me, in part so I can share it with others in as sincere a way as possible. We can't share what we can't see or understand, after all.

 

That's kind of why I asked the general question of just feeling comfortable and confident in your own skin. Personally, I'm a big believer that when we make that our focus, rather than focusing on how to attract people, it all kind of slides into place.

[Batya33]

Here's the thing. You don't have to be warm and fuzzy - I know of many very reserved people who have big hearts - I know this I feel it -it's a vibe and energy. And I know people who act warm but don't really give a crap. And all in between. I come back to -do you like people. Do you like being around people whether one on one, small group, whatever. Do you like hearing their stories and anecdotes and noticing unique things about them. Like BC said not everyone is going to be everyone's cup of tea and that is why not everyone is our match. I am naturally "warm" and outgoing and curious but not everyone inspires that in me. In fact some trigger me to be self-protective, distant, reserved, even avoidant. I had a first meet once - this must have been 15 years ago or more. He leaned over to my space at the restaurant table with a big exaggerated smile about 4 times during the 1.5 hours we were there and each time he said loudly with enthusiasm I'M GOING TO CALL YOU!!!! (for another date he meant). Of course after the first time especially I was not into this.

 

We parted. Did he call? Sort of. Three weeks later I got a voicemail on a Friday night (don't call women you don't know well on a Friday night -assume they are out having a life and if they're not they may want you to think they are lol). I was out, got it (no cell back then) when I got home. Full of lame-o apologies of some kind and wanted me to call him. No, I didn't of course.

 

Do more listening than talking. If you have to remind yourself to act in an approachable way with the person, and to show interest it might be a clue she is not your match.

[Ian4996]

Just a quick update. Bluecastle & Batya, thanks a lot for your insights. I'm going to reply to them properly tomorrow as it's late and I'm dead tired.................just wanted to put a quick update on here before bed as haven't been on for a couple of days:

 

Updates (Wed 28th - Fri 30th August)

 

Sara - she suggested sometime next week for 2nd date as she's very busy this week. Communication with her has generally gone a bit quiet, but will see where she's at in a day or 2.

 

Emily - 2nd date last night. Really good date, lots of fun and we both had a good few drinks. Surprisingly though, given how flirtatious she'd been over text and how well the date went, she was very reserved when it came to anything even slightly physical i.e. wouldn't even hold hands when I walked her home. But then she's been texting me a lot today, asked me to come with her to Parkrun tomorrow morning (I can't) and was really keen to stress that she was attracted to me but that that reservedness is just how she is until she really gets to know someone, which is fair enough.

 

Tinder - matches and messages coming left, right and centre, far far more than I used to have when I've been on Tinder in the past. I spent the first 6 months of this year training and dieting really hard and I'm in much better shape in my photos than I was when I used Tinder before, which seems to make a huge difference. Getting through all the messages can at times feel quite exhausting and I'm trying to cut down the interactions to a few messages then suggest a date. I've got one date lined up for Sunday and another for Tuesday. Would've liked to have got a couple of meets set up for tomorrow as I've got a day without any other real commitments but I probably left it til a bit too late in the week

 

Will give a better fuller update tomorrow when I'm less tired

[Ian4996]

I think the question you want to be asking is: Do you feel like you're being yourself on dates?

 

Absolutely. I've been myself on all the dates I've been on so far.

 

I get the impression, from reading recent messages, that you guys are under the impression that I've been behaving drastically differently on my recent dates compared to my first few. And I do get why you'd think that, as all you have to go on is the messages I post on here, you're not seeing the dates as a fly on the wall. And of course, I have been posting quite a bit about a change in mindset / change in approach.

 

But in reality, the difference has just been little tiny tweaks. I simply realised (after my conversation with Emily a few days ago) that, up to that point, I'd been acting passively, not displaying any desire. I was being myself, but acting how I'd act towards a platonic friend.

On my 2 dates since, I've still been myself, but I've been less passive and I've shown the girls that I was attracted to them (which was genuine, I was attracted to them). I've been flirting, I've thrown in the odd innuendo, I've whispered things in their ears, I've not shyed away from the occasional sexual reference etc etc. Yet at the same time, we've still chatted about normal things..............pets, family, career, aspirations, travel, dating etc etc and I've enjoyed getting to know them.

 

I honestly think that if you guys were able to actually see my dates as a fly on the wall, you wouldn't think in any way that I wasn't being myself. Maybe I'll rig up a hidden camera somewhere on the next one and post the footage for you :tongue:

[Ian4996]

Batya makes a great point about how we can fail to listen when we're overly focused on how someone is perceiving us.

 

Do more listening than talking

 

Yeah I agree with both of the above.

 

do you like people. Do you like being around people whether one on one, small group, whatever.

 

All depends on the person for me. If it's someone I'm enjoying talking to, yes definitely. If it's someone where the conversation feels like an effort, then I'd rather just have my own company.

 

Dates for the next few days:

 

Tomorrow (Sunday): Drink in the evening with Laura (1st date)

Tuesday: Drink in the evening with Casey (1st date)

Possibly Monday or Wednesday (just finalising details): Drink with Rachel (1st date)

 

I'm looking forward to these next 3 dates. All 3 are physically really attractive girls, although of course this isn't the be all and end all. But all seem nice girls too with similar interests to me, so looking forward to them.

 

In terms of dates from the past few days:

 

Sara still quiet. I get the impression that she could be a bit embarrassed about how far things got physically between us in the nature reserve lookout hut the other day. Maybe a bit of caught up in the moment but then regretting it later. But I'll drop her a message tomorrow and see what's what.

 

Emily away for the next few days.

[Batya33]

I have a question and apologize if this is just semantic. Why are you referring to these adult women as "nice girls" and "attractive girls" - would you like it if one of these people you met told you "you're a nice boy!" Sure I might still say "I'm going out with the girls" in a lighthearted way but when I refer to female friends of mine it's "person" or "woman" or, depending, "lady". Just check in with yourself as to whether you view these people as adults, as your equal, as women not "nice girls". Again could be semantics and, maybe not.

[Ian4996]

Round here, the word 'girl' is used commonplace to describe a young or relatively young woman. There's no implication at all in terms of 'viewing people as adults, equals etc etc'. If you asked a girl / woman in her 20's or 30's round here 'do you call yourself a girl or a woman', they'd probably say themselves that they use the word 'girl'.

[Batya33]

Round here, the word 'girl' is used commonplace to describe a young or relatively young woman. There's no implication at all in terms of 'viewing people as adults, equals etc etc'. If you asked a girl / woman in her 20's or 30's round here 'do you call yourself a girl or a woman', they'd probably say themselves that they use the word 'girl'.

 

Definitely not the people I know. But maybe true of the people you know. When I was in college and doing an internship was the first time I heard female students refer to themselves as women -that was on the younger side. So where you live adult males are men or guys but adult females are "girls?" Interesting (and no where I work/have worked referring to an adult in her 20s as a girl would not go over well at all). Yes some women talk about hanging out with the girls -it's an expression. Different from being referred to as a girl by a stranger for example. So would it be ok if a woman said about you "you're a nice boy!" in front of your friends?

 

Again I get that is has to do with cultural norms - but I was wondering because of your focus on getting physical relatively early and then with the "girl" description started to give the impression that you would like her to be more submissive/succumb to your charms, etc more than getting to know her as an equal.

[Ian4996]

It is quite simply the word that's generally used in the UK, in the same way that people say 'girlfriend' and 'boyfriend' even if the people in question are not technically 'girls' or 'boys'.

 

The 'girl' / 'woman' debate has made me slightly curious though to the extent that I have just had a quick flick through the first page of threads on the Dating Advice sub-forum to see which word most other posters on here use. It's about 50 / 50 whereas, interestingly, nearly all of them refer to the male as 'guys'.

Obviously this is a forum made up of people from different parts of the world but I can assure you that, here in the UK, using 'girl' as a descriptive for a young adult female is not in any way offensive and reflective of any sort of views.