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Ian4996
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Wow what a detailed update!

 

I thought it was pretty brief for 2 months!

 

sometimes a kiss ignites it.

 

That's kind of what I was getting at. As I said, I've never (in all my years of dating) being on a no physical contact 1st date that has then led to a 2nd date. Although having said that, me and Alana social distanced on our date on Sunday so that could yet be a first for me!

 

I think your text crossed boundaries with a near stranger especially since it was typed words which come across stronger

 

I saw it as one of those things that could either be fine or could be 'inappropriate' depending on the audience. Myself and Abbie had had such good banter on our date that I didn't think she'd see it as inappropriate. But obviously I misjudged! One thing I have learnt in the past was how differently something can be received in person compared to on a text.

 

Good luck with Alana!

 

Thankyou!

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Two months during a pandemic - you managed to interact plenty ! I was proud of myself for interacting with my favorite librarian today who I haven’t seen since pre covid lol. I wouldn’t take chances with overly flirty texts with people you’ve never met. I’ve felt strong chemistry with no physical contact so I answered based on my personal experience.

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Two months during a pandemic - you managed to interact plenty ! I was proud of myself for interacting with my favorite librarian today who I haven’t seen since pre covid lol

 

To be fair, we've been able to do quite a bit of outdoor interacting here for a while now - for the past month, groups of 6 have been allowed to meet outdoors and for probably 2 weeks before that, meeting 1 other person outdoors was fine (which obviously allows a socially distanced outdoor date). Plus I've had more evenings free than I would do normally (I would normally work a lot of evenings) so it's seemed like a good time to have a few dates.

 

I wouldn’t take chances with overly flirty texts with people you’ve never met. I’ve felt strong chemistry with no physical contact so I answered based on my personal experience.

 

We had met (earlier that day). But yes I agree with what you're saying. I guess I was trying to rationalise in my head where on earth the 'no spark' thing had come from (because, in person, we had hit it off so insanely well!) and the one thing I could come up with was maybe that because we'd only acted like platonic friends (due to social distancing), this had, in her mind, caused her to only think of me as a platonic friend. But yes, as you say, people can feel that chemistry without physical contact (and to be fair, I felt that myself, despite the lack of contact!). Ahhh well, I'm not dwelling on it. I'm only really thinking about it again today because I'm writing this journal!

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I had INSANE chemistry with a guy I hadn't even had a conversation with. I was standing there talking to one of his friends and he happened to walk past and his friend introduced us. It was like in the movies, the skies cleared and the moon shone down and I heard the "aaaaahhhhhhh" from the heavens as we locked eyes. And it wasn't just me, he said he felt it too (later on, when we knew each other better).

 

And I've met plenty of perfectly nice men who I enjoyed chatting with, but I could never picture myself kissing them. And that's kind of the test I used; can I imagine myself naked with this man? Would I want sex with him? If not, it's a no go no matter how good the conversation is.

 

But hey, you have more options so that's great.

 

PS: In these times I wouldn't attempt physical contact without her consent. People are rightfully gun shy about standing near someone else let alone holding hands or kissing.

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And that's kind of the test I used; can I imagine myself naked with this man? Would I want sex with him? If not, it's a no go no matter how good the conversation is.

 

Yup, I agree. Out of interest, would you say there was anything in particular that made you think 'yeah I want sex with him' and 'no, not with him'?

 

To update, Alana has declined a 2nd date due to the distance (we live 45 minutes apart, which she knew from the start). Ironically enough, I posted on someone else's thread yesterday saying 'a great 1st date often doesn't lead to a 2nd' and I've instantly had a further reminder of this myself!

I must admit, I'm starting to get frustrated about how often it's happening (after literally 75% of my good / great 1st dates, they bail on the 2nd date). I get that sometimes I make mistakes (like I did with Abbie) but I'm also starting to wonder if I ought to try a paid service rather than Tinder, where more people are more serious about looking to meet someone.

 

My reservation about this are:

Firstly, there's a hell of a lot more people on Tinder than there are some paid services. I've used paid sites a couple of times in the past and it wasn't long before I was just seeing the same faces again and again.

Secondly, my experience on Match (which I'd always thought of as the main paid service) wasn't good. I found that the majority of my messages never got read (you got a read receipt) and I got the impression that many of the profiles on there were people who'd long since stopped subscribing. After my subscription ended, I kept getting the emails saying 'this person has viewed your profile etc' so I'm guessing that, similarly, these women didn't know that I wasn't a subscribed member either.

 

Be interested to see what people think of free v paid sites and if there's any in particular that people have had better experiences with.

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Way back I did a paid site for all the bells and whistles. I also used Eharmony once for free and had a really odd experience (someone in my field saw my profile, saw my real first name,was able to narrow down to two women with my first name in our field/geographic location -the other one was married which left me -so we met and turns out of course we knew people in common -interesting story and he acted like a jerk so sayonara).

 

Anyway others had good experiences on Eharmony. And other paid sites but I am not sure if the pandemic would throw a wrench in it right now.

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My sis met her husband on eHarmony 10 years ago. Her time was just running out....he was just getting on.

I tried during a free week or something. NOTHING. My sis is 6.5 years younger than me. Her hubs is my age. My twin bro met a woman on Match. He was almost 60, she was 33 with young children. When I got on eHarmony I didn't WANT a man 10 years older than me. You couldn't pick an age group. Plus, there was no one around me. I think eHarmony is about dead....

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  • 2 months later...

Thanks both for your thoughts.

 

I thought I'd come back and write an update on the past couple of months. The last week has been quite interesting, as, firstly, I've made a big realisation about what's been going wrong for me with dating. But then secondly, I've had some massive frustration that left me feeling really really low last night, although I'm not quite so bad today.

 

So since I last posted, I've had maybe 10 new first meets / dates (whatever we want to call them). None of them have led to a 2nd meet and the first few were, to be blunt, pretty bland, the stereotypical 'no connection' dates. Then a week ago, I read something online that hugely resonated with me. It's a blog by a guy called Nick Notas (a dating and confidence coach) and it was a blog post about the 'no connection' thing. He said that a big reason for many people have so many no connection / no spark dates is that they 'wear a mask'. They keep the conversation surface level and kind of just exchange facts rather than delving deeper and asking more intimate, thought-provoking questions.

 

So I read this and I thought 'that is exactly what I've been doing. I've been keeping my guard up. Whereas the real me (the me that my best friends see) is the interesting fun curious person who digs deeper etc'.

 

So anyway since making this realisation a week or so ago, I've had 3 new first meets and the conversations have been through the roof so much better. I've felt like I've really been getting to know the women I've been out with and there's been a great natural flow to the conversations.

 

However......

 

On 2 of these 3 meets, I've still experienced the problem that I've been having huge issues with for a while - that of going from good first date to actually getting a 2nd date. I'll describe what happened on each occasion:

 

The first date was last Monday with Sasha. We'd been for a morning walk in a nature reserve, got on great and at the end I suggested going to a pub for lunch, to which she agreed. So we went to set off but my van wouldn't start. So then we had an hour of hassle getting jump leads etc (unsuccessfully) before eventually I had to phone for a recovery truck. I suggested to her that we leave it for today but go for food another day, to which she replied that she wasn't feeling it so much and maybe best to leave it. I think as much as anything, the hour's stress had taken away the fun vibe we'd had initially.

 

The 2nd date (and this is the real frustrating one for me) was Saturday. I met Irene and we had a totally amazing date. Everything about it was fantastic and it was so obvious there was chemistry and mutual attraction. At the end, we began kissing in the street before, after about 5 minutes, it dawned on me that we shouldn't be doing that at the moment (we weren't exactly over a metre apart). I felt bad that I'd broken the rules but to be fair, it was my first indiscretion in 6 months since the whole Covid thing kicked off (I'd not kissed anyone since I was seeing Heather in March pre-lockdown). Anyway, we agreed to meet again next Friday to go for a hike after work early evening and parted on those terms. So the following evening (last night), I messaged her to sort out the details. She replied (and this was totally bizarre given how the previous evening had gone) that she had had a think and realised that she had felt no romantic connection, before then immediately blocking me.

 

This left me feeling really low and totally frustrated – I think I shouted 'how many f****** times is this going to happen!' and chucked my phone as hard as I could into the mattress. I mention this spur of the moment reaction mainly as an indicator of how frustrated this has made me. I feel like I can take a rejection and I can accept the occasional person who I've liked changing their mind between the 1st date and the 2nd as just 'something that happens with online dating'. But what has definitely got to me is how regularly this has happened – I honestly think that it must be 6 or 7 times consecutively when I've had what I felt was a really good first date, that they've bailed on the 2nd.

 

I've been trying to think whether there's anything I've been doing that has caused this to happen so regularly. The only thing I can think of is that I've become kind of desperate to get over that 1st-2nd date hurdle and that this has come across when I've suggested the 2nd date. Ie I might have come across as desperate to nail down a 2nd date and it's this that has made them change their minds. Any thoughts welcome!

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Nice to see you again, if not under the most optimal circumstances.

 

My first, and foremost, thought is: ugh! And, all in all, I'm not sure these frustrating moments require more analysis than that. As 2020 has shown us all, sometimes life can deliver an avalanche of ughs. And right when we think the avalanche has abated, another is triggered.

 

But speaking of that big picture? Well, I suppose I can't help but think it might play into the smaller picture of some of these moments. Bottom line is that even the sanest of human beings are, at this juncture in history, probably less sane than usual, less sane than they even know. Which is to say that something inherently kind of insane—dating, i.e. trying to genuinely connect with people we don't know—is going to be even more peculiar and bizarre than it is at the best, sanest, most stable of times.

 

Sasha, Irene—especially Irene? I guess, in your shoes, I'd just see it as that. Craziness during crazy times, if unfortunately the sort of craziness that leaves a bruise. Future dating sociologists, I suspect, will mark 2020 as a year in which the success rate of dating was at its lowest in a century. I simply couldn't imagine trying to make those sorts ends meet, these days, and applaud your efforts. Don't get too down.

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I can't relate to your expectations and why you're terming it "rejection." Many first meets do not lead to a real first date whether there is kissing or not. For many reasons or no reasons at all. I don't agree at all with that blogger you mentioned - small talk can lead to big talk with certain people, small talk can be awesome for a first meet and leave certain people wanting more -people are individuals. What is most important is not how deep or open you are but your approachability and vibe - in person -how you treat waitstaff, whether you make good eye contact, how you refer to the people in your life (on one first meet when I asked what his parents did he said "my mother did nothing." So I said "she raised you" and he said "nothing she did nothing."; another guy spoke to the waiter in spanish assuming he was hispanic while waving his butter knife in the air as -well -he needed a new one -another told me his coworkers were dumb. and another asked me why I'd chosen the career I did - because as RBG said about her meeting her future husband "he cared that I had a brain" -that was the guy I eventually married 13 years and approximately 5 months later - we met at work, I did not know our lunch date was supposed to be a real date).

 

Please stop reading these non-expert biased self help -so called -blogs. Show up, look nice, be nice, show up with an open reasonable mindset, with the expectation that you'll have a pleasant conversation with a stranger. The end.

 

It's not rejection after a first meet with a stranger unless there is something very specific you did to offend. Like I got rejected in 1992 by a blind date. Want to know why? Glad you asked. My friend set us up. I casually mentioned to a co-intern who I was meeting -he said "wait...... my wife just interviewed him!!!" So we thought -in our 20 something cluelessness -that it would be fun to get a copy of his resume. I did -and learned really interesting things about him -all good! So I casually brought this up at our dinner. And confessed the small world connection and meant it all to be funny and fun. He was offended. (duh). My friend who set us up wanted me to know that he later met his future wife and bought her a huge diamond ring on Valentines Day when he proposed. Didn't bother me at all. But yes- he rejected me because I lacked common sense. That's an outlier - personal rejection after a first meet is extremely rare. Not feeling a romantic connection is not rejecting you at all!

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Sasha, Irene—especially Irene? I guess, in your shoes, I'd just see it as that. Craziness during crazy times, if unfortunately the sort of craziness that leaves a bruise. Future dating sociologists, I suspect, will mark 2020 as a year in which the success rate of dating was at its lowest in a century. I simply couldn't imagine trying to make those sorts ends meet, these days, and applaud your efforts. Don't get too down.

 

Thanks Bluecastle, yeah that's more or less what I've been telling myself since, that it is just one of those crazy things and that I shouldn't let it affect me too badly. It's the accumulation that's got me down I think, the great first meet followed by the 'no romantic connection' text time and time again, not just on this occasion.

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Not feeling a romantic connection is not rejecting you at all!

 

Thanks, that's a more positive way of looking at it.

 

your approachability and vibe - in person -how you treat waitstaff, whether you make good eye contact, how you refer to the people in your life

 

Definitely agree these things are important! I couldn't agree with your assessment of Nick Notas though. Have you read much of his work? Or are you just saying you disagree based on my description?

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Not feeling a romantic connection is not rejecting you at all!

 

Thanks, that's a more positive way of looking at it.

 

your approachability and vibe - in person -how you treat waitstaff, whether you make good eye contact, how you refer to the people in your life

 

Definitely agree these things are important! I couldn't agree with your assessment of Nick Notas though. Have you read much of his work? Or are you just saying you disagree based on my description?

 

To me it's not positive or negative. It's factual. I didn't try to rationalize when I dated. I accepted when someone was just not that into me. I accepted rejection. I accepted that what could sting like rejection wasn't personal rejection. For example - twice now I've chatted at length with two women around my age also moms -we had mutual friends. I was seeking out new platonic friends (not just with other moms but they were). In both cases we had looooonggg intense conversations. In both cases each one suggested a specific day to get together. In each case I said yes. In each case the ball was in their court to confirm and they didn't. Both women have whined on facebook about how hard it is to meet people and make new women friends. So should I feel personally rejected? I'm still in touch with both of them. (and this type of thing happened with a few other women too). Should I assume I was personally rejected? It sure feels that way. But when I look at how they post, what they discuss, their perspectives I realize - well, no, it's really about them. It's really about how they might protest how badly they want new friends but they're not willing to be reliable, to follow through, to put in the effort to meet. That's on them. Is that rationalizing? Or simply choosing to react to my feelings by looking at it from the perspective of how someone who never met me flaked on plans - and yet complains about not being able to make friends. Rationalizing by contrast would be "ok so she didn't find me interesting because I went on and on about myself so she didn't choose to meet me but I'll just tell myself it's her loss because she could have given me another chance" (hypothetically, not what happened).

I disagree based on the part you described. I would shy away from reading that kind of thing other than for entertainment value. But that's just me!

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I agree with you re those 2 women - it's about them, rather than about you. I guess the question is do you think you'd still be able to see it that way if 10 or 12 other women also chose never to meet up with you. Or would you start to think 'is it something with me, given that it's happening with such a large number of people?'. That's kind of how I've been thinking re the women I've dated not wanting a 2nd meet: I could see it as being on them if it happened 2 or 3 times but when it happens the 10th time, it's very difficult not to question yourself!

 

I'd be interested to know what you think of Nick Notas' work if you ever get 15 minutes spare to have a read. I agree with you that there are a lot of 'online dating gurus' who spout a load of rubbish but I don't think he's one of them. It's the same with this forum. I read things on here sometimes and think 'that's terrible advice'. Yet I read other things and think 'that is really really good, he or she has totally hit the nail on the head'. For me, saying 'don't take any notice of any online dating coaches' is just the same as someone saying 'don't take any notice of people on Enotalone'. But there's really good advice and really terrible advice in both and I think a big part of learning (in any field, not just dating) is to learn to filter out what's good advice for you and what's not.

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The primary reason why I'm skeptical of these "dating gurus" is because they are in it to make money. Here at Enotalone we don't get paid, so we have no motivation to make our advice "sellable". Those "dating gurus" need to ensure what they're presenting is something people want to buy. So they will skew their advice a certain way.

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I would take notice of a personal therapist and take advice from ENA that resonates - but an online dating coach -self-described - probably not -meaning he has no particular expertise. I would not see a coach like that as any more equipped than anyone else. By contrast I take advice from a number of parenting experts who have the professional background to give parenting advice -and of course I still am selective. I meant don't take it as a personal rejection. Certainly evaluating your own behavior is always a good idea. For example - listening skills, eye contact, reliability/punctuality, your energy that you emit, etc. But it's still not a personal rejection -I met over 100 men from online dating sites -I wanted to see half again and a bit more than half wanted to see me again. Strangers cannot by definition personally reject you. That's all I meant.

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The primary reason why I'm skeptical of these "dating gurus" is because they are in it to make money. Here at Enotalone we don't get paid, so we have no motivation to make our advice "sellable". Those "dating gurus" need to ensure what they're presenting is something people want to buy. So they will skew their advice a certain way.

 

Yes, absolutely, everyone on here is giving advice voluntarily and dating coaches are aiming to make money. But still, there are good and bad in both.

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Maybe slow down on the dates. People can pick up when you're dating looking for an ego boost as opposed to wanting to look for a long term partner. You seem to be interested in more substance than a fling or something casual but you're coming across as too eager or hungry for something not as honest out of that frustration to achieve 2nd date or relationship status with someone. As soon as your self-esteem starts to take a dip, stop. Get back to other things that matter and round yourself back out a bit. Come back to dating a few months later. There's no harm in taking your time.

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The primary reason why I'm skeptical of these "dating gurus" is because they are in it to make money. Here at Enotalone we don't get paid, so we have no motivation to make our advice "sellable". Those "dating gurus" need to ensure what they're presenting is something people want to buy. So they will skew their advice a certain way.

 

Yes, absolutely, everyone on here is giving advice voluntarily and dating coaches are aiming to make money. But still, there are good and bad in both.

 

Of course but the difference is we're not holding ourselves out as coaches. Isn't it obvious that there is good and bad advice on almost everything?

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Isn't it obvious that there is good and bad advice on almost everything?

 

Absolutely. And that's why, for me, it isn't right to criticise or dismiss someone's work if you've never read it.

 

Oh that's not what I meant at all. I disagreed with what you quoted. I am not criticizing his work -I am criticizing having any more focus on a so-called online dating "coach" than anyone else who has been on a date through an online site - I would weight both evenly and probably rely more on the person who dated and doesn't have a bias in favor of making $/attracting traffic to his website. I do disagree with what you wrote. I read it, I do not agree that that is a good overall strategy or why a person wouldn't get an official first date. In fact I've had dates where we went really in depth and extended the coffee date to three hours - totally clicked -and my sense was he didn't call me again because it was too much too soon.

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Maybe slow down on the dates. People can pick up when you're dating looking for an ego boost as opposed to wanting to look for a long term partner. You seem to be interested in more substance than a fling or something casual but you're coming across as too eager or hungry for something not as honest out of that frustration to achieve 2nd date or relationship status with someone. As soon as your self-esteem starts to take a dip, stop. Get back to other things that matter and round yourself back out a bit. Come back to dating a few months later. There's no harm in taking your time

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I have considered this myself. I did wonder to myself whether the fact that I got quite down about what happened last night meant that I shouldn't be dating. I think overall, I am ok to date but I think you're right that I should slow down a bit and, like others have said, not take the 'rejections' too personally.

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Maybe slow down on the dates. People can pick up when you're dating looking for an ego boost as opposed to wanting to look for a long term partner. You seem to be interested in more substance than a fling or something casual but you're coming across as too eager or hungry for something not as honest out of that frustration to achieve 2nd date or relationship status with someone. As soon as your self-esteem starts to take a dip, stop. Get back to other things that matter and round yourself back out a bit. Come back to dating a few months later. There's no harm in taking your time

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I have considered this myself. I did wonder to myself whether the fact that I got quite down about what happened last night meant that I shouldn't be dating. I think overall, I am ok to date but I think you're right that I should slow down a bit and, like others have said, not take the 'rejections' too personally.

 

Yes - sometimes I had to take a short break because I was fried -I just didn't have time on my side to take a longer break. I will say that when my husband and I reconnected after several years having dated in the past I'd had a really bad date the night before which bad experience continued the next morning when he sent me increasingly angry emails. So when my future husband called and said "instead of meeting to catch up in two weeks -I'm free tonight if you are" -I thought - yes, good -it's not a date and he won't ask me about my dating life. The latter was true. The former was sort of true but sparks flew and the rest was history. I think because I was fried from dating and didn't have time to freshen up after work given that it was last minute I was even more chill lol.

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Oh that's not what I meant at all. I disagreed with what you quoted. I am not criticizing his work -I am criticizing having any more focus on a so-called online dating "coach" than anyone else who has been on a date through an online site - I would weight both evenly and probably rely more on the person who dated and doesn't have a bias in favor of making $/attracting traffic to his website. I do disagree with what you wrote. I read it, I do not agree that that is a good overall strategy or why a person wouldn't get an official first date. In fact I've had dates where we went really in depth and extended the coffee date to three hours - totally clicked -and my sense was he didn't call me again because it was too much too soon.

 

That's fair enough. I'll qualify this by saying that I didn't take this advice because it was coming from a dating coach, I took the advice because it really resonated with me and what's been happening on the dates I've been going on. It would have been just the same had the advice come from somebody on here or from one of my friends.

 

I've had 3 dates since I took the advice and I can say without doubt that the conversations have been way better than they were before, in spite of the fact that none have led to a 2nd date. I feel like I'm really letting down my barriers down and showing the true me, the same way I would do with my best friends.

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