Advice about a situation that has evolved...

[ThatwasThen]

Thank you, Catfeeder. Yes, it has been a great thing thus far to just let her take the lead. I have felt really good about it.

Don't forget the part where Catfeeder tells you to "expand your focus beyond this woman."

 

(yes I'm still here pounding it home, SoulSister. )

[Nebraskagirl14]

Don't forget the part where Catfeeder tells you to "expand your focus beyond this woman."

 

(yes I'm still here pounding it home, SoulSister. )

 

Lol!!! I caught that part!! Thank you, ThatWasThen! And I completely agree, of course.

[bluecastle]

It's really the key part, that one.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think when we find ourselves crushing hard on something that is complicated, complex, murky, perhaps unattainable and impossible, and so on, it is not merely about the "mysterious force of human feeling" so much as a reflection of something in ourselves—an aperture asking to be widened not trained on one thing.

 

I can't help but feel, here, that there is a correlation between the intensity of your feelings for her and the complexity of her situation—the fact that the odds are very, very slim that those feelings can be reciprocated right now in a way that is healthy, rich, sustainable. Might be worth exploring all that, a bit.

[Nebraskagirl14]

It's really the key part, that one.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think when we find ourselves crushing hard on something that is complicated, complex, murky, perhaps unattainable and impossible, and so on, it is not merely about the "mysterious force of human feeling" so much as a reflection of something in ourselves—an aperture asking to be widened not trained on one thing.

 

I can't help but feel, here, that there is a correlation between the intensity of your feelings for her and the complexity of her situation—the fact that the odds are very, very slim that those feelings can be reciprocated right now in a way that is healthy, rich, sustainable. Might be worth exploring all that, a bit.

 

Bluecastle, I think this is brilliant and I actually think about this a lot. I was actually thinking about it the other day. I would agree that I have more than once been drawn to women than are not available - usually they aren’t married :-) But they aren’t perhaps emotionally available and that is something I think of often. Thank you for this. I do wonder why this has been a pattern of mine.

[bluecastle]

I'm just throwing this out there, but often that means that you are not available—or not as available as you think. That there is a comfort, felt somewhat subconsciously, in the idea that it can't quite work, or can't become fully real. Knowing that allows a fantasy to blossom, and fantasies are comforting, while reality can be downright terrifying.

 

I've been there, in different ways, for a lot of my adult life. I'm about to turn 40 and am only now, truly, finding myself not at all drawn to unavailable, in any form. Doesn't matter how smart, how intriguing, how stunning, how sparkly things are when we're face to face. For instance, I met a woman maybe 7 months ago who checked off all the boxes I like checked, save for one: she was from Europe, in the US for an indeterminate amount of time, lecturing here, traveling there. Compelling stuff, even that, except it meant....well, it meant that the odds of anything becoming real were stacked against me. I didn't have to "control" my feelings because they just weren't there, once I learned that (an hour into meeting her).

 

In another life I'd probably be texting her right now, planning an adventure to City X to see about Connection Y. In this life we hung out for another hour, that was that, and soon after I met someone who was available. It's a far more vulnerable thing, that. I have all the feelings and no matter how hard I break my brain I can't come up with a reason why we might not work—so those more dramatic complexities (and barriers) are replaced with the deeper complexities of connection and mutual surrender.

 

Stuff to think about.

[Jibralta]

Actually, she has been with words and actions, just as sweet to me. She doesn’t have to be. No one is making her say or do things. That is her choice. I’m sure she is, yes, appreciating that I enjoy her and am very fond of her, but I’m certainly not imagining what is between us. There is plenty of evidence. Now, that doesn’t mean she wants to be with me and I completely accept that. And I definitely agree that I could be hurt. It’s always possible when hearts are involved. I’m still trying to keep that boundary strong because I really do love being her friend, first and foremost.

 

I get that and don't doubt it. But I wonder if her sweetness would still be there if you weren't making it so easy for her to come around, and if her life was not in a state of upheaval.

[Batya33]

If her heart is involved it's involved from the perspective of she is a married woman on vacation with her husband who she still loves. Separated means still married. And not only is she still married she's on vacation with him. That's her choice too.

[boltnrun]

Can you give examples of how she is "sweet" with words and actions?

[Nebraskagirl14]

I'm just throwing this out there, but often that means that you are not available—or not as available as you think. That there is a comfort, felt somewhat subconsciously, in the idea that it can't quite work, or can't become fully real. Knowing that allows a fantasy to blossom, and fantasies are comforting, while reality can be downright terrifying.

 

I've been there, in different ways, for a lot of my adult life. I'm about to turn 40 and am only now, truly, finding myself not at all drawn to unavailable, in any form. Doesn't matter how smart, how intriguing, how stunning, how sparkly things are when we're face to face. For instance, I met a woman maybe 7 months ago who checked off all the boxes I like checked, save for one: she was from Europe, in the US for an indeterminate amount of time, lecturing here, traveling there. Compelling stuff, even that, except it meant....well, it meant that the odds of anything becoming real were stacked against me. I didn't have to "control" my feelings because they just weren't there, once I learned that (an hour into meeting her).

 

In another life I'd probably be texting her right now, planning an adventure to City X to see about Connection Y. In this life we hung out for another hour, that was that, and soon after I met someone who was available. It's a far more vulnerable thing, that. I have all the feelings and no matter how hard I break my brain I can't come up with a reason why we might not work—so those more dramatic complexities (and barriers) are replaced with the deeper complexities of connection and mutual surrender.

 

Stuff to think about.

 

You are absolutely right. And you are my age and clearly you know much about life and relationships!! I will certainly think about this deeply. Thank you!

[Nebraskagirl14]

I get that and don't doubt it. But I wonder if her sweetness would still be there if you weren't making it so easy for her to come around, and if her life was not in a state of upheaval.

 

Great point. I don’t know. But then again, I think if she were happily married and living with her husband, she and I wouldn’t necessary have been corresponding as we have. But I don’t know.

[Nebraskagirl14]

If her heart is involved it's involved from the perspective of she is a married woman on vacation with her husband who she still loves. Separated means still married. And not only is she still married she's on vacation with him. That's her choice too.

 

Absolutely and this I totally know. It’s a reality that has been sobering when I have gotten lost in the fantasy.

[Nebraskagirl14]

Can you give examples of how she is "sweet" with words and actions?

 

I feel weird about being too specific but we have exchanged cards and gifts of a sentimental nature with words also of a sentimental nature. We have both said that the other is beautiful, etc. I can understand how this could seem like I’m trying to read too much into something but I really don’t think I am in this particular case. But again, I don’t have all of my bets on this going toward a relationship between us. I am keenly aware that we may just stay friends, even special friends, while she stays married and tries to figure that out. And I really do respect that.

[boltnrun]

See, I do think you're "reading into" what she does.

 

I tell my bestie (and my other friends too) that they're beautiful, that anyone would be lucky to have them, that I love them. I buy them thoughtful gifts that I think they'll love or that I think will cheer them up if they're going through a bad time. When my bestie's husband had an affair, I told her I thought he was crazy because he'll never find anyone as beautiful and intelligent and amazing as her.

 

I do not have any romantic interest in my bestie (or any of my other female friends...or male friends for that matter!) because I am hetero and also am not attracted to my male friends.

 

If she does those kind of things, then I agree, you are reaching.

 

You've started a few threads about this woman. In each one you insist you only want to be "friends", but that isn't really true, is it? If she told you she wanted to be with you romantically I'm 100% sure you would be delighted.

[Nebraskagirl14]

See, I do think you're "reading into" what she does.

 

I tell my bestie (and my other friends too) that they're beautiful, that anyone would be lucky to have them, that I love them. I buy them thoughtful gifts that I think they'll love or that I think will cheer them up if they're going through a bad time. When my bestie's husband had an affair, I told her I thought he was crazy because he'll never find anyone as beautiful and intelligent and amazing as her.

 

I do not have any romantic interest in my bestie (or any of my other female friends...or male friends for that matter!) because I am hetero and also am not attracted to my male friends.

 

If she does those kind of things, then I agree, you are reaching.

 

You've started a few threads about this woman. In each one you insist you only want to be "friends", but that isn't really true, is it? If she told you she wanted to be with you romantically I'm 100% sure you would be delighted.

 

That was then. I have always been attracted to her but I would not have gone there. I have only started to go there now in my mind because our relationship has changed quite a bit. I know how it was and I know how it is now and it’s quite a 180. And I don’t think I’m reaching as much as you think but I do admit that I can’t at the moment put all of my chips on the fact that she would like more. I do find our current connection really delightful and ideally, I can just be good with that and not need - not need but desire more. If she were to take a step forward and suggest more, yes, I would be delighted but also afraid because clearly, the circumstances are not cut and dry. I want to just savor what we have for what it is which is a unique friendship that I think is unique to us both. If circumstances were to change and evolve, that would be great. We have built a friendship very slowly, over the last 6-7 months and there is still so much to learn about each other. I want to learn more without an agenda but I also can’t help that I think she’s adorable. It’s probably good that she is on vacation for a few weeks (as much as I have been sad about not seeing her for weeks), just because I do think she needs to do what she needs to do with her husband - whatever that is and that is none of my business.

 

I have heard from her a few times which I’m really happy about but I am, as I said earlier, completely letting her take the lead on all things. She knows I care very much for her and I think that’s mutual and for now, that’s good.

 

About 10 years ago, I had an emotional relationship with a woman friend that never turned physical. It couldn’t work for a few reasons and it was good that it didn’t. But we did end up having something quite unique and soulful and we still do to this day even though she is now married. It’s full of boundaries but still very unique and we did still have that connection. This feels similar and then end result might be the same. I don’t know. But she is very special to me.

[Nebraskagirl14]

I want to thank you all for your comments on this thread. I had this really sobering epiphany just moments ago about this whole thing and it helped me shift my focus. It could very well be that I have been living in fantasyland quite a bit and getting really caught up in the emotion of it all, as well as the potential of what could be. The facts are the facts. She is off with her husband, separated or not, and for all I know, she has every intention of working things out with them and being with him for the rest of her life. That said, I do know that we are special to each other, but that may remain on the level of friends. Time will tell, but thank you for your thoughts, even the ones that are hard to hear. It has helped me at least put things into perspective in the way that I can enjoy her and our interaction but not be so stuck on this situation. Thank you!

[bluecastle]

I had this really sobering epiphany just moments ago about this whole thing and it helped me shift my focus. It could very well be that I have been living in fantasyland quite a bit and getting really caught up in the emotion of it all, as well as the potential of what could be. The facts are the facts. She is off with her husband, separated or not, and for all I know, she has every intention of working things out with them and being with him for the rest of her life.

 

Good stuff.

 

I like to get a little buzz on—in plenty of different ways—but that's only because my favorite state is being sober, finding thrill in hard facts over fantasy. The part to be really honest about here—and time will inform this—is whether you can be authentic friends with her, or if the attraction is too much.

 

I get the feeling, and forgive me if I'm wrong, that you like the idea of being open, fluid, "cool" with things taking on a variety of shapes. If this evolves into romance—lovely. If she wants to talk about her husband—lovely. But that's not all lovely, not authentically, if it keeps you in a kind of emotional purgatory—another version of fantasy, you know? A friendship that affirms an aspirational identity—of being open, fluid, and so on—while closing you off to the potential of connections, platonic or romantic, that are more clearly defined (in your head and heart) and as such can go deeper, expand.

 

This thread reminds me a bit of one of my best friends: male, hetero. Great guy. But, like a lot of guys, he is borderline incapable of being purely platonic friends with women, especially those he finds attractive. He's not a letch, not a creep. I'd say he struggles to "read the room" of other people. He finds himself always looking for signs, nursing hopes, and slipping into these sort of poorly weighted friendships where he always crushing, always hoping that, say, being someone a woman talks to openly about her romantic struggles—on the apps, with a partner—will "evolve" into romance.

 

What I notice with him—what I talk to him about plenty, since he professes to want partnership—is that his emotional bandwidth seems a bit fried, or at least scattered, too scattered to make room for something real, because he's got these "connections" simmering. "It's cool, we're just friends," he says, but then he does things like cancel dates to hang out with these friends—and, in the process, making partnership harder to obtain. When he goes on dates he makes comparisons, which is just unfair, because to expect someone you've known for 10 minutes to get under your skin like someone you've known for months or years is to create a bar that few people, if any people, can jump over.

 

Anyhow, maybe I'm just saying that being honest with yourself—and taking steps based on those truths—is far more radical than openness and fluidity, especially if that openness is allowing you to stay closed off.

[Nebraskagirl14]

Good stuff.

 

I like to get a little buzz on—in plenty of different ways—but that's only because my favorite state is being sober, finding thrill in hard facts over fantasy. The part to be really honest about here—and time will inform this—is whether you can be authentic friends with her, or if the attraction is too much.

 

I get the feeling, and forgive me if I'm wrong, that you like the idea of being open, fluid, "cool" with things taking on a variety of shapes. If this evolves into romance—lovely. If she wants to talk about her husband—lovely. But that's not all lovely, not authentically, if it keeps you in a kind of emotional purgatory—another version of fantasy, you know? A friendship that affirms an aspirational identity—of being open, fluid, and so on—while closing you off to the potential of connections, platonic or romantic, that are more clearly defined (in your head and heart) and as such can go deeper, expand.

 

This thread reminds me a bit of one of my best friends: male, hetero. Great guy. But, like a lot of guys, he is borderline incapable of being purely platonic friends with women, especially those he finds attractive. He's not a letch, not a creep. I'd say he struggles to "read the room" of other people. He finds himself always looking for signs, nursing hopes, and slipping into these sort of poorly weighted friendships where he always crushing, always hoping that, say, being someone a woman talks to openly about her romantic struggles—on the apps, with a partner—will "evolve" into romance.

 

What I notice with him—what I talk to him about plenty, since he professes to want partnership—is that his emotional bandwidth seems a bit fried, or at least scattered, too scattered to make room for something real, because he's got these "connections" simmering. "It's cool, we're just friends," he says, but then he does things like cancel dates to hang out with these friends—and, in the process, making partnership harder to obtain. When he goes on dates he makes comparisons, which is just unfair, because to expect someone you've known for 10 minutes to get under your skin like someone you've known for months or years is to create a bar that few people, if any people, can jump over.

 

Anyhow, maybe I'm just saying that being honest with yourself—and taking steps based on those truths—is far more radical than openness and fluidity, especially if that openness is allowing you to stay closed off.

 

Thank you, Bluecastle. You are excellent at this by the way :-) Yes, I would agree that this has been a pattern of mine for years and I don’t quite know how to break it.

 

I would really like to be her friend. When we are together, I actually feel like we can very easily just stay as friends. I really don’t have an agenda, but sometimes, because our relationship is so sweet, I do get into the “what if’s” and that does get me into trouble, you’re right. I guess part of it, for me, is that I am not ready for a full-blown dedicated relationship at this very moment, which is why I can take pieces of something and seemingly be okay with it. I don’t think that is healthy but it’s typical of me. I also really revel in connection and so to find a special connection with a woman, for me, is really powerful. I want to enjoy the connection but not get lost in a fantasy that maybe isn’t there. Your posts have been really thought-provoking. Thank you!!

[boltnrun]

If you have a pattern of emotionally attaching yourself to women who are not available (and perhaps don't share your sexual orientation), then yes, I would agree you don't really want a romantic relationship. This fantasy world keeps you from truly interacting with someone who would want to be with you in the same way you want to be with these women.

 

Why? What are you afraid of?

[Nebraskagirl14]

If you have a pattern of emotionally attaching yourself to women who are not available (and perhaps don't share your sexual orientation), then yes, I would agree you don't really want a romantic relationship. This fantasy world keeps you from truly interacting with someone who would want to be with you in the same way you want to be with these women.

 

Why? What are you afraid of?

 

I actually am typically attracted to women that do share my sexual orientation. I don’t know what I’m afraid of. Feeling trapped/smothered? Being in too deep and left or cheated on? Those things have happened and now I feel like I fear them.

[Batya33]

So I would resist the temptation to tell yourself about how unique you are to want a certain kind of connection (most of us want "connection" i.e. friends and perhaps romantic relationships) and instead get very basic and bluntly honest with yourself. We all worry about rejection - normal human emotion.

[Nebraskagirl14]

So I would resist the temptation to tell yourself about how unique you are to want a certain kind of connection (most of us want "connection" i.e. friends and perhaps romantic relationships) and instead get very basic and bluntly honest with yourself. We all worry about rejection - normal human emotion.

 

I hear you. Thank you.