Female friend

[katrina1980]

@ Greg, it's only controlling if she demands he not see her.

 

I would never advise that, he's a grown man, he can do what he wants; she's his gf not his prison warden or worse his mother.

 

But she is certainly within her rights to not like it -- not him meeting her, that's perfectly fine, but the Saturday night "date" they planned just the two of them.

 

For me, I would voice how I feel about that and then let him decide.

 

If he chose to go, I would reconsider dating him, we're clearly not compatible in this regard.

 

Again to be clear, meeting is fine, no problem -- coffee, lunch, that would be more "appropriate" imo.

 

Something just sounds "off" with scheduling a Saturday night dinner date. I can't even imagine my own bf doing something like that. I mean I could imagine it, he just wouldn't though.

 

He sticks to coffee and lunch w female acquaintances, friends and clients.

 

Same for me.

[katrina1980]

Is this the same guy who disappeared on a solo trip to Thailand a couple months back?

 

It must be J, they've been dating 7 months.

[ThatwasThen]

I think her asking him to meet up on a Saturday when she knows that you are his g/f is disrespectful to you and your relationship with your b/f. I think your boyfriend accepting the invitation on a Saturday night is disrespectful to you and your relationship with him.

 

I see that you've decided to give this situation a "wait and see" approach. Just don't keep investing in a guy and a relationship with him if the disrespect and lack of understanding of how this must make you feel continues.

 

Curious: How do you think he would handle you going out on a Saturday night for dinner with one of your male friends?

[bluecastle]

Irka you say you guys are "good" and closer than ever, meanwhile you feel if you speak up and tell him your "real" feelings, he will conceal it and sneak around?

 

This is what I'm struggling with. I mean, if you're "good" this is pretty simple. Your boyfriend, who you trust and trust has eyes only for you, is going out to dinner with a female friend tonight. Nothing to worry about, or something to have a quick "good" chat with him about.

 

But this is not good. Your boyfriend tells you about this dinner and your brain jumps to: Is this a secret friends with benefits? Have they been waiting for the right time to let sparks fly? Is tonight a test for whether I can "handle" him? If I express myself will he just become sneaky instead of listening to me and respecting me?

 

Irka, your boyfriend is shady. You know this, we know this. You, dare I say, like this.

 

Mind you, by "shady" I don't mean he's a cheat or even a "bad" guy. I mean he keeps a lot of things "in the shade," in compartments, revealing them in ways that keep you off-kilter, that carry a whiff of danger. Did this with the Thailand trip, did this with the woman on your birthday vacay, did this with the thoughts of selling the house, and on and on and on. Does this, even, when it comes to things like affection and feelings, which he seems to toss out like pieces of candy, a little sweetness that soothes and shocks.

 

This is how he operates. It works for him. Allows him, I'd imagine, to keep people at a distance or in compartments he has the illusion of control over, to enjoy the power of putting someone on edge and the comfort of never being fully exposed and vulnerable.

 

And it works with you. Otherwise you wouldn't reward his shadiness. Repeatedly. You either clam up and swallow down or you kind of lash out, skipping over that place in the middle where you are honest about what you want and how you feel.

 

What's that? Well, that's your shadiness. Water seeking its own level. You're not genuine or authentic or vulnerable with him because he's not genuine and authentic and vulnerable with you. In that friction is "mystery" and "heat," and, I suspect, the ever-seductive hope that things will "level off" after this "bump." That you'll find something like sustained safety in the danger. That the vulnerability you routinely feel (that you're on the cusp of getting hurt) will morph into a vulnerability you two share (that you two are becoming singularly close and exposed to each other).

 

Now, I assume all that is what you meant by being "crucified."

 

I mean, I could easily join Greg in offering you some nuanced words that'll make the next 24 hours more manageable. I could tell you that I've gone to dinner with a female friend, plenty of times, in the 5 months I've been with my girlfriend—but then, dang it, I'd have to explain that my girlfriend knows this friend well, because I made a point of introducing them early and that we all hang out regularly so it's no big thing, and that I'd never throw something like a Saturday dinner with a woman she's never met at her sideways because (a) I respect the sh*t out of her and what we're building and (b) I just know, in my bones and cells, that her patience for something like that would be next to nil. It's a lot of what I find so attractive about her, which is to say it's where a lot of that respect comes from.

 

Katrina said he doesn't respect you. I partly agree, but not fully. I think he respects you exactly as much as you respect yourself, and exactly as much as you respect him. It might be worth considering if you'd like to feel more respect, and be with someone you respect a little more, since after 7 months you've got a pretty good idea of where everything stands on that front. He just reminded you of that, by making these plans, as you reminded him back, by saying nothing while assuming some unsavory things about him.

[irka000]

Perhaps that's it's a good description of my situation.

You see, I thought to pick my battles as if I would be commenting on everything I would be commenting quite often.

We still getting to know one another and not everything what's normal for him ,it's normal for me.

Likewise.

Maybe he didn't introduce me yet to her cause they haven't spoken for some time. As I said I only recently met his male friends.

Maybe she wanted to speak with him privately about something. I have no idea. I always assume the worst. That's me.

He texted me early to ask about my plans for tomorrow. I responded and I haven't heard back. He is obviously busy with her.

I am annoyed cause he always respond to her calls and texts when he is with me. However, looks like their time together is more precious.

I agree that this woman has no respect for our relationship that she asked him out for Saturday evening. Maybe wanted to check if he will agree or not ?

I am sad ....as hell.

[katrina1980]

>>I could tell you that I've gone to dinner with a female friend, plenty of times, in the 5 months I've been with my girlfriend—but then, dang it, I'd have to explain that my girlfriend knows this friend well, because I made a point of introducing them early and that we all hang out regularly so it's no big thing, and that I'd never throw something like a Saturday dinner with a woman she's never met at her sideways because (a) I respect the sh*t out of her and what we're building and (b) I just know, in my bones and cells, that her patience for something like that would be next to nil. It's a lot of what I find so attractive about her, which is to say it's where a lot of that respect comes from.

__

 

Well said, blue, wow. A bit blown away actually.

 

Re paragraph above, that's the difference irka.

 

Blue's gf knows his female friends, he has introduced them, they've all hung out! He hasn't kept them a secret from her nor has he kept her a secret from them.

 

And the underlined comment, please pay close attention to that. About how he also knows if he were to toss at her what your bf tossed at you, she'd just never tolerate it, may even lose her over it. And how, due to her strong boundaries, he has a tremendous amount of respect for her.

 

My bf feels same about me. I may "rock the boat" sometimes, and have no fear of doing so, no fear he might get mad or leave (if he does, so be it, that's my attitude), and my bf respects me tons for that, he's told me!

 

You think you're "scoring points" or drawing him closer by being Miss Understanding, shuffling your true feelings under the rug, "making nice," when in actuality you're doing just the opposite.

 

You're sending him the message you have zero boundaries, you lack self-respect, you'll say and do anything to keep him, you fear losing him, and I will tell you, which I have had men tell me, that one of the biggest mistakes a woman can make is sending him the message that she's afraid to lose him.

 

You're handing all your self-respect and power over to him on a silver platter, and he's more than happy to eat it up, and enjoy it, which appears to be what's happening now.

 

But will most likely, in time, spit it out, and sadly, you with it.

 

I'm sorry this sounded harsh, but damn irka, it really pains me when I read threads like this, I wish I were there, I'd give you a good shake! Lol

 

But I'm not, so that leaves you to give yourself a good shake.

 

Please cut and paste blue's post to your fridge or something - read it every morn!

[katrina1980]

Perhaps that's it's a good description of my situation.

You see, I thought to pick my battles as if I would be commenting on everything I would be commenting quite often.

We still getting to know one another and not everything what's normal for him ,it's normal for me.

Likewise.

Maybe he didn't introduce me yet to her cause they haven't spoken for some time. As I said I only recently met his male friends.

Maybe she wanted to speak with him privately about something. I have no idea. I always assume the worst. That's me.

He texted me early to ask about my plans for tomorrow. I responded and I haven't heard back. He is obviously busy with her.

I am annoyed cause he always respond to her calls and texts when he is with me. However, looks like their time together is more precious.

I agree that this woman has no respect for our relationship that she asked him out for Saturday evening. Maybe wanted to check if he will agree or not ?

I am sad ....as hell.

 

Man, this guy just doesn't know when to stop, does he.

 

Between tossing this Saturday night date at you "sideways," responding to all her calls and texts while spending time with you, calling her "baby" right in front of your face, it's almost seems like he's intentionally toying w you, sh** testing your boundaries, or attempting to determine if you have any boundaries at all.

 

In short, a total mind f***.

 

God I wish you would dump him irka, I hope someday you'll realize you deserve better and find the strength to do so.

 

I'm feeling for you tonight -- ((hugs)).

[bluecastle]

I don't think it's fair—or, really, respectful—to Irka to say this guy is toying with her. She's not a kitten, but an adult. This is a dynamic they are building together: two adults making choices, both in how they conduct themselves in general and with each other. The relationship they are in is a product of those choices, just as staying in it is a choice they both make.

 

So while I feel for you, Irka, I don't think you are a victim of anything here.

 

We can all commiserate about the ways in which he is disrespecting you—and, yes, he is—but I think you're making an informed and conscious choice to stay with someone you don't hold in high respect and never really have, whose character and integrity you have doubted for many months.

 

Figuring out what's behind that choice is tough, but I think it's worth asking if it's tougher than nights like this.

[katrina1980]

^ Not sure how you're defining "toying" but I certainly meant no disrespect to irka.

 

She said herself she felt he might be testing her (boundaries) which is what I meant, and agreeing w her by saying it almost sounds like he is toying w her = testing boundaries, intentionally.

 

I have no idea if that's actually what's happening, but I don't think it's this huge leap to suspect he is, or might be, given the blatant nature of his actions towards this girl "friend" while spending time w irka as explained in my last post.

 

I do agree she is no victim, she is a willing participant in this drama and has been from the get go.

 

Nevertheless, I do feel badly for her, and can empathize with how she's feeling tonight, which is why I gave her hugs.

[SherrySher]

I'm not sure I would say "toying" but I would say he isn't understanding her or considering her feelings.

 

I get the impression that this man is more about him and what he wants, etc. Like the trip to Thailand and not even talking to her about it.

 

He's not really interested in what Irka thinks or how it affects her. He wants to do as he wants and will sneak and hide if it means he has to.

 

No one wants that kind of partner. This guy really doesn't sound like he's evolved enough for a serious relationship.

 

He thinks too much about himself and not about his partner. And a relationship won't work with it being like that. It can continue but it won't be a healthy, happy one.

[SherrySher]

I mean, I could easily join Greg in offering you some nuanced words that'll make the next 24 hours more manageable. I could tell you that I've gone to dinner with a female friend, plenty of times, in the 5 months I've been with my girlfriend—but then, dang it, I'd have to explain that my girlfriend knows this friend well, because I made a point of introducing them early and that we all hang out regularly so it's no big thing, and that I'd never throw something like a Saturday dinner with a woman she's never met at her sideways because (a) I respect the sh*t out of her and what we're building and (b) I just know, in my bones and cells, that her patience for something like that would be next to nil. It's a lot of what I find so attractive about her, which is to say it's where a lot of that respect comes from.

 

Bravo!! The world needs more men like this.

[bluecastle]

Agree with both of the above ^^. And I very much feel for Irka too.

 

Either he consciously or subconsciously is pushing nonsensical boundaries, something that generally fades after the first mont, or he's just immune to seeing past his own nose, which can be a permanent condition.

 

Neither is much fun, and I think Irka, who I'm picking up on is a lot of fun past the spins, deserves better.

[figureitout23]

I don't think it's fair—or, really, respectful—to Irka to say this guy is toying with her. She's not a kitten, but an adult. This is a dynamic they are building together: two adults making choices, both in how they conduct themselves in general and with each other. The relationship they are in is a product of those choices, just as staying in it is a choice they both make.

 

So while I feel for you, Irka, I don't think you are a victim of anything here.

 

We can all commiserate about the ways in which he is disrespecting you—and, yes, he is—but I think you're making an informed and conscious choice to stay with someone you don't hold in high respect and never really have, whose character and integrity you have doubted for many months.

 

Figuring out what's behind that choice is tough, but I think it's worth asking if it's tougher than nights like this.

 

This, this, this and your previous post completely on point.

 

The facts are here slapping everyone in the face...shes not a victim, this is their tango, shes been doing this for I'd guess the entirety of their relationship and I want to kinda piggyback off of a response jman gave on Mandees latest post where he pointed out a huge fact that we as responders tend to forget and thats, that there are two sides to every story.

 

We are viewing this story through the eyes of a woman who has extreme anxiety issues and taking it as gospel...

 

Is this man a jerk? Is he toying with her? Is he even being a bad boyfriend or is his every move scrutinized? Is she attracted to his percieved untrustworthiness and the back and forth?

 

Ever since the issue with his children' mother we had a honest conversation and things between us did blossom. He took me for the weekend away for my birthday to Paris and we had an amazing time. Then we spent weekend at his place

 

We had our bumps but since about 2 months things couldn't be any better.

 

Otherwise we are good. He told me recently that he feels with me closer than ever. Some of you will disbelief given my insecurities so far, but overall we are good.

 

3 separate posts, every time the previous life alerting issue is swept under the rug to focus on the new life altering dilemma...Chicken or egg.

 

I mean no disrespect irka, but I simply dont think all this is all that deep, and honestly once your anxiety dissipates you go back to normal, all this analysis when you go right back anyway... its because its not complex, theres nothing Freudian going on, you simply have anxiety and trust issues and they are manifesting in your relationship.

 

This relationship is either doomed or you will continue with this dynamic, there is no inbetween, not without you healing and youve made it this long and its this bad, I dont know how open you are to looking within...

[irka000]

I woke up concerned thinking that maybe my boyfriend and his female friend will get closer after that dinner.

Is that possible after 24 years of friendship?

He is more often than usual on what's app. Maybe they are constantly in touch....

Can ask him about it ? After that dinner I only said I was disappointed that he didn't respond to my message as he does when he is with me. He apologised and said my message made him smile but he didn't think it required a response.

He said I knew where he was and I could simply call him anytime as he has nothing to hide.

Somehow, the fact he didn't tell me anything more about their dinner, makes me wonder if they connected on another level.

He invited me for dinner last night but funny enough we spoke about other things and I didn't ask him anything about it.

Today I have all sorts of things going through my head. What if she would make a move on him ? Will express more interest ?

I don't know what question can I ask that would give me the answer I need ....

We are going to see this weekend. I wanted to talk about it. Perhaps find out if there was any history between them. If he sees a possibility to be with her since they understand each other so well.

I am a mess today.....

[Wiseman2]

Yikes! You don't seem compatible at all. He seems to need a lot more freedom that you are able to feel comfortable with. However, keep in mind people can have friends and go on vacations without you. You seem much more into him and overly dependent on him. No do not interrogate him in an accusatory innuendo that he suddenly has the hots for a lifelong friend who has her own bf.

 

Having this much anxiety and suspicion and ruminating over a simple thing like dinner with a friend may indicate it's time for a check up to rule out physical/neurochemical causes as well as getting a referral to a therapist to help sort out these anxieties. You can switch bfs as much as you want, but you'll chronically have angst unless you address it.

I woke up concerned thinking that maybe my boyfriend and his female friend will get closer after that dinner.

Is that possible after 24 years of friendship?

He is more often than usual on what's app. Maybe they are constantly in touch....

Can ask him about it ?

[irka000]

Wiseman, you are right...I think I need a professional help. It is not normal to be worried about things like this....I am overly insecure. Why ? No idea, maybe because I was extremely overweight since childhood until a few years ago....maybe in my mind I still look the same?

I feel like his female friend is better than me....can you imagine?

That he would rather reveal things to her than to me.... although I have no evidence that this is the case.

He told me long time that questions will not change much. If someone wants to do something, he will do. I agree. So perhaps I won't be asking him about it.

I will be seeking some professional help as I always ruin things with my insecurities and anxiety.

I think he is the most balanced and emotionally healthy man I ever been with it. It is me who is damaged.

[bluecastle]

I'm happy to hear you're taking the idea of professional help seriously, Irka. Regardless of how he feels about you, these are simply not rational thoughts and not conducive to healthy relationships.

 

There is something inside of you that doubts that you are worthy to be someone's—anyone's—girlfriend. That you're with a man who is independent in nature—who travels alone, who has friends of the opposite sex, who is on good terms with the mother of his children—is a particularly steep hill to find comfort on. But I think you'd find yourself feeling this way with just about anyone.

[irka000]

Bluecastle I cherish your advices on this forum. This time you are also not wrong.

Yes. It is me - not really him. As I said he is a well balanced man.

It would be a pity to throw this away as believe it or not ,it is the best relationship I had to date.

I guess time will tell.

[bluecastle]

I believe he's well-balanced. Whether this is the best relationship you've had? Well, you know your history. What I know—about myself—is that if I felt even two percent of the anxiety you've felt in this relationship I wouldn't be able to stay in it, no matter how dynamic or beautiful or promising the woman was, no matter how much we laughed or how great the sex was. Those feelings in and of themselves would just be a sign that something isn't working. They're just not feelings I have the appetite to feel. I'd rather be alone, genuinely.

 

I've got a closet load of issues—because I am, like you, a human being—but this sort of anxiety is not one of them. If my lovely girlfriend a few rooms away decides another man is better, or is right now communicating with another man—well, her loss. That's kind of my baseline. Maybe that sounds harsh or arrogant, but I think it's essential for connection. Not only does it bring me comfort and security, but it allows me to be fully present with her, with what I both know about her and don't know, and to be accepting of wherever we go together, even if, ultimately, it's into a brick wall and not a land of rainbows and unicorns.

 

I've dated people—and been in longterm relationships with people—who are anxious in the ways you are, and I admit I gravitate toward threads like this because I've been in the man's shoes. Nervous whenever I got a text, nervous when I had to fly somewhere for work. That was kind of there from the start and it was so corrosive. It made real intimacy almost impossible, and created an unhealthy dynamic where I think we both kind of thought that things would get really good once things settled down, the jitters faded, the loop of suspicion and soothing ended. That was just an illusion, though, one made seductive my some base level human stuff: attraction, chemistry, fears of being alone, and so on. The loop was not a snag in the relationship; it was the relationship.

 

Make no mistake: I do not think those women were "damaged" or "weak." I was part of that, as were my issues, my "damage" and dark corners. In one case in particular I think a lot of her anxiety was spot-on intuition that she was suppressing. I wasn't cheating, wasn't roaming, but I was not fully "in it." I did not feel for her what he felt for me, and probably I enjoyed the comfort of that. We both knew this on some deep core frequency, and I think we were both ashamed of it, from different angles. And it was that shame, far more than love and affection, that allowed us to keep going. It was the fuel in the engine. It did not make for a smooth ride because it was a dishonest journey. Those little "bumps," as people often put it—I think they are often caused by a relationship colliding into the lies one or both people are telling in order to make the relationship work.

 

Those relationships had their good sides—and those were fantastic women—but they were never healthy, and not sustainable. I'm grateful for them—even the one that ended up causing me tremendous pain—because they forced me to dig deep, to understand myself a bit better and clean the corrosion from the pipes. I think this relationship can, and should, be that for you. And maybe you can do that self-work without letting it go—who knows? But if you can answer that call—if you can see this issue as your spirit screaming out for some attention, from you, not him—I think you'll be taking a big step closer to thing you really want right now, which is a sense of security that only you can provide for yourself and that will make the business of being in a relationship a fun one, not a fraught one.

[irka000]

Bluecastle, thank you for taking your time and responding in such depth, as always. I so much appreciate your input.

I was single for almost 5 years and was happy. No demons to face. It was easy.

He is very patient and insightful. It's not about sex, laughter or quality time. Although these are brilliant.

I believe there is a deep connection between us and that's why I don't want to give up on this just yet to work on myself....

I would love to combine both....

I like your way of thinking about your partner. That if they will choose to go, it is their loss....so very true.

You see I create thought in my mind and begin to believe it so it become so real that it changes my attitude. I am so consumed by the fact that there is something between him and this woman, that I feel almost upset with him.

I need to control this as he has no idea this is in my head.

He would be puzzled why I am cold towards him.

So yes, I am damaged ,time to admit. I know that if not this, I would have such a peaceful life and an amazing relationship.

Thank you All

[Rabican]

Sounds to me like maybe you're a bit overly insecure.

 

And he's doing things that are clearly beyond what normal relationship boundaries would accept.

 

Combine these two and he's throwing gas on a fire.

 

Attached men shouldn't be going on "dates" with female friends their partners don't know. A reasonable person would have made concessions to that scenario like hey Jane (whatever her name is, and it shouldn't be "baby"). Since you've never met my girlfriend its probably best if either she comes with me or we do this another time.

[ThatwasThen]

I woke up concerned thinking that maybe my boyfriend and his female friend will get closer after that dinner.

Is that possible after 24 years of friendship?

He is more often than usual on what's app. Maybe they are constantly in touch....

Can ask him about it ? After that dinner I only said I was disappointed that he didn't respond to my message as he does when he is with me. He apologised and said my message made him smile but he didn't think it required a response.

He said I knew where he was and I could simply call him anytime as he has nothing to hide.

Somehow, the fact he didn't tell me anything more about their dinner, makes me wonder if they connected on another level.

He invited me for dinner last night but funny enough we spoke about other things and I didn't ask him anything about it.

Today I have all sorts of things going through my head. What if she would make a move on him ? Will express more interest ?

I don't know what question can I ask that would give me the answer I need ....

We are going to see this weekend. I wanted to talk about it. Perhaps find out if there was any history between them. If he sees a possibility to be with her since they understand each other so well.

I am a mess today.....

 

Why is it you don't feel he loves you? What makes you so edgy? Is he not showing you that he loves and cares for you? Have you never had a discussion about exclusivity?

 

The quote above makes you sound like basket case and if you're feeling that much anxiety about his loyalty to you then you are with the wrong guy.