Judge Me Please - I Need a Good Kick In the Butt :)

[SherrySher]

When I struggled with my eating disorder, if anyone suggested or implied indirectly how "too skinny" or "too thin" I was (and belive me there plenty who did!) or if they ever suggested a "group" for the "too thin" I would take great offense to that.

 

Absolutely.

 

Weight loss or weight gain is only a symptom of a deeper issue and as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the person knows they look sickly thin or overweight.

 

It's what's causing that to happen is what needs to be addressed.

Most of the time it is either depression or anxiety and that person needs help with those things more so than anything else.

 

But everyone does have great suggestions.

[katrina1980]

"Sickly thin" -- yes when I look back at pics, I did look sickly thin but what made my sit and anorexia so difficult to conquer are the positive messages we can receive too, from others and society in general.

 

My mom thought I looked awesome for example. I recall one of her friends saying how much weight I've lost (around 15 pounds, I was down to 102 at the time - I'm 5'6") and if I was okay.

 

And my mom snapped back "yes she's fine, she looks GREAT, leave her alone."

 

There were others who would compliment me too, suggesting I go into modeling or something (like my mom was).

 

I never even considered it, doesn't interest me and I've always been a bit insecure about my looks anyway.

 

And then others who would suggest I was too skinny and didn't look healthy!

 

At 17-18 into early 20s, what message is the correct message?

 

Anyway, point is, "too thin" is often considered an ideal, while weight gain (even 5-10 lbs) is seen as a negative to avoid and frowned upon. And often mocked.

 

Did anyone see the photo of the plus-sized model in a bikini that went viral yesterday?

 

The comments on twitter were absolutely disgusting, meanwhile she herself shrugged them off and is proud of her size! She eats right, is healthy and feels great. A strong confident woman to be admired imo, I wish I were that confident!

 

I think some misinterpreted the reason I started this thread, which happens and is ok, par for the course.

 

I'm happy you (Sherry) and some others got it though. :))

 

That said, all the responses were very helpful and made me realize certain things I had not realized prior to starting it. xx

[Batya33]

"I also take a spin class every Friday after work which is a great stress release and lifts me up, and asked her if she'd like to join me as my guest. She can stop when she feels she's had enough. That's it's fun!

 

I said you'd be surprised how awesome you feel afterwards.

 

She said she has to check with J (her bf) as he has the night off. Ugh."

 

 

Ugh. Does she mean they have a standing plan when he has the night off or is she doing that thing where just because she has a boyfriend she has to put his schedule first and "check" whether she can (gasp) take a class even though he is home? So, sometimes I find that women who blame it on their partners/spouses are just looking for a way not to participate without saying directly "sorry it's not for me". I had a similar situation on my end where I balanced priorities and chose not to ask my husband to take over child care so I could join my friend for a swim aerobics class BUT I was totally up front with her -told her that while I could ask him and he likely would do it it would be a big sacrifice for him and I tried to limit those types of sacrifices so I was going to forego the class. I don't mean to keep talking about me just sharing my perspective because it typically rubs me the wrong way if a grown woman says "I have to check" in a circumstance like that.

[katrina1980]

Bat, my sense is the bf excuse was just that - an excuse.

 

What I think is that she would feel embarrassed. By either how she looks compared to others, and/or not being able to keep up, it is quite strenuous.

 

Oh and I need to retract something I said earlier about OA. I just researched it.

 

It's not just for those who are over-weight, in fact it's not about that at all, apologies my bad.

 

It's for anyone who struggles with over-eating, under-eating, over-exercising, compulsive eating, bulimia, anorexia.

 

It's actually a pretty good suggestion and may actually help her, thanks catfeeder for suggesting it!

[Seraphim]

I wish more of us plus sized people could think we are beautiful! I am am XL. I owe my weight gain to my sexual abuse as a kid trying to “ hide” so no one would ever find me attractive. I used to be extremely thin, 92 pounds . I remember my gym teacher saying I had a propensity to “be fat “when I was in grade 8 and weighed 97 pounds . 😳😳 and I remember when I was 17 and I weighed 118 pounds my dad calling me a fat ass . So I went back down to 101. I am 5’4” with a small to medium build. As I hit my 20s though and started a sexual relationship with my husband I became disgusted with myself and just ballooned out . Then menopause came and 20 extra pounds just appeared out of nowhere .

 

But now I have more confidence in my 50s and I do at least two fashion shows a year . Who would ever think I as an extra large middle-age person I would feel confident to do a fashion show . I wish more of us would feel that confidence .

[RayRay63]

weight gain is just a symptom of the disease.

 

Kat, I tried to raise that on page 12, but you ladies sailed on.

 

Why does she have an eating disorder?

 

Because she is not truly happy?

 

You can't dictate to her, perhaps you should just be supportive when she deals with it herself.

[boltnrun]

I had a doctor suggest I lose weight when I was 22, 5'3" and 120 lbs.

 

Seriously.

 

Anyway, my weight fluctuates due to medical conditions I have. Right now I am heavier. It makes me feel pretty lousy. I'm grateful none of my friends has said anything because it's certainly not something I choose.

 

But Kat, offering to be a supportive ear whenever she needs one is very nice of you. Please try not to suggest, insist or otherwise indicate she should leave her boyfriend. It could possibly be too much for her to deal with, and you know she would probably retreat back into binge eating.

[Batya33]

I had a doctor suggest I lose weight when I was 22, 5'3" and 120 lbs.

 

Seriously.

 

Anyway, my weight fluctuates due to medical conditions I have. Right now I am heavier. It makes me feel pretty lousy. I'm grateful none of my friends has said anything because it's certainly not something I choose.

 

But Kat, offering to be a supportive ear whenever she needs one is very nice of you. Please try not to suggest, insist or otherwise indicate she should leave her boyfriend. It could possibly be too much for her to deal with, and you know she would probably retreat back into binge eating.

 

For me it was when I was 15, 5"2 and 113 pounds. (in the early 1980s) -that was a trigger for my years long eating "disorder"/issues.

 

I agree she should not leave her bf right now and hopefully she'll trust K enough to be straight with her about why she doesn't want to do a spin class, etc.

[katrina1980]

Kat, I tried to raise that on page 12, but you ladies sailed on.

 

Why does she have an eating disorder?

 

Because she is not truly happy?

 

You can't dictate to her, perhaps you should just be supportive when she deals with it herself.

 

That's what I'm doing Ray, not "dictating" anything at all, not quite sure where you got that.

 

I "asked" her about the spin class, thought it would be fun, and take her mind off what she had just told me, that she can't stop eating. She's bored and stressed.

 

I totally respect her decision not to join me.

 

I'm not gonna walk on eggshells now, afraid I might offend her, I don't think she would want me too either.

 

Just listening and offering support. That's all.

 

And she's opening up to me so I must be doing something right.

 

Tnx.

[boltnrun]

Yeah, for some reason in the 80's we were all supposed to be a size 0, 1 or 3. God forbid you were a size 5 or horrors, a size 7!

 

I was a size 3 in high school. When that idiot doctor told me that I was a size 4. Huge, I know. I weighed 135 pounds right before I gave birth to my first child.

 

Now I'm about a size 8. The idea of going into double digit sizes really annoys me! That conditioning really sticks.

 

Kat, will you have the opportunity to spend more one on one time with your friend? I think she has seen she can trust you and it could be a lifeline for her.

[katrina1980]

I had a doctor suggest I lose weight when I was 22, 5'3" and 120 lbs.

 

Seriously.

 

Anyway, my weight fluctuates due to medical conditions I have. Right now I am heavier. It makes me feel pretty lousy. I'm grateful none of my friends has said anything because it's certainly not something I choose.

 

But Kat, offering to be a supportive ear whenever she needs one is very nice of you. Please try not to suggest, insist or otherwise indicate she should leave her boyfriend. It could possibly be too much for her to deal with, and you know she would probably retreat back into binge eating.

 

Yeah agree, leaving the bf situation alone, not going there. Tnx. :)

[Batya33]

Yeah, for some reason in the 80's we were all supposed to be a size 0, 1 or 3. God forbid you were a size 5 or horrors, a size 7!

 

I was a size 3 in high school. When that idiot doctor told me that I was a size 4. Huge, I know. I weighed 135 pounds right before I gave birth to my first child.

 

Now I'm about a size 8. The idea of going into double digit sizes really annoys me! That conditioning really sticks.

 

Kat, will you have the opportunity to spend more one on one time with your friend? I think she has seen she can trust you and it could be a lifeline for her.

 

I thinnk size 0 came around later but yes! Prior to that I hadn't been concerned about my weight. My mother is and always has been a normal eater, did not diet, always thin.

[katrina1980]

 

You can't dictate to her, perhaps you should just be supportive when she deals with it herself.

 

Ray, wanted to add, this is the difference between men and women imo.

 

Men prefer to deal with things, issues, problems themselves, while women prefer the support, encouragement, and caring from their friends.

 

She has already told me how much she appreciates how much I care, and has begun trusting me and opening up as a result.

 

The last thing she needs is for me to essentially shut my mouth and let her deal with this herself.

 

My bf yes, I would. My girlfriends, no.

 

It's how men deal, not women.

[katrina1980]

 

I agree she should not leave her bf right now and hopefully she'll trust K enough to be straight with her about why she doesn't want to do a spin class, etc.

 

It doesn't matter Bat, she has her reasons.

 

I have a very strong sense it's due to embarrassment though which is understandable and in retrospect I probably should not have asked.

 

Everyone there is thin, in shape and able to complete the session. So I totally get why she'd feel out of place, she does not work out at all.

 

If she expresses a desire to work out or exercise, I will ask if she'd like to walk with me, or a short run to start.

 

Something like that, just the two of us.

 

Oh and I hear y'all about the pressure to be thin!

 

My mom thought I was "fat" at 118! I felt fat too due to her comments.

 

When I got down to 105, and then 102, she was raving to all her friends how great and beautiful I looked!

 

Meanwhile I felt horrible, was severely malnourished, abusing laxatives, tired, the whole nine.

 

But hey I was super thin! Yay for me. (Sigh)

 

I never got into purging though, there was nothing to purge anyway, I rarely ate!

 

Now I am at the same weight I was when my mom thought I was fat, 115- 118.

 

And I feel really good!

[Batya33]

I know of one very very overweight guy who used to do spin classes regularly but sure I get it! You are doing your very best and doing great!

[SherrySher]

Kat, do you have pm's?

[katrina1980]

Kat, do you have pm's?

 

Shoot, I just checked my settings and it was off.

 

I just turned it on!

[mustlovedogs]

Spin classes are as intense as you want them to be. I hadn’t worked out in months and was able to complete one.

[catfeeder]

So not to hijack at all (!) but when I tried the "for instance" part with a friend who constantly complains about her yo yo overweight issues she will knock down whatever would follow "for instance" or dismiss them. Then what? I assume this is kind of a typical response from someone who just wants to vent.

 

"You don't need to answer this now, you can just know that the offer is extended for anything you decide that I CAN do to help. Meanwhile, let's enjoy our time together and focus on the ways you'd like to do that."

 

This clips empty complaining short to avoid becoming a dumping ground and an enabler. We are not the therapist, we are the friend, and so we avoid embedding her by jumping down that rabbit hole. We're either available for productive discussion, or we can focus on other things--but we won't enable unproductive spinning.

[catfeeder]

Here is a link to an article "Caregiving vs Caretaking.

 

https://www.expressivecounseling.com/articles/codependency-caretaking"

 

 

... By Elizabeth Kupferman, Professional Therapist.

 

Thank you, TWT. Yes, I can appreciate the difference, which is why asking a friend what she WANTS to do and allowing her to come up with answers is important. Allowing her to cultivate her own interest in your potential help can either be a mere mental safety net, meaning psychological comfort only, OR, it may, at some point, lead to curiosity or an outright request.

 

People cannot request what they don't know is possible to ask of you. There's a difference between passively expecting someone who's in over their head to come up with a plan even while they're unaware of potential resources versus allowing them to know that you're invested enough to back up your offer beyond platitudes.

 

Care taking drives an agenda that is not ours to assign, much less drive, while offering examples of what is possible to ask of you demonstrates sincerity and leaves a door open.

 

It's much harder to speak of wanting help while in the dark about what kinds of help may even be available. While we can't make any calls that are friend's job to make, we can certainly learn about places she CAN call should she ever wish to do so--and she won't need to do that alone if she'd rather have your company.

 

Passive venting is a cycle of digging a deeper hole--embedding. She feels better, you feel worse, and nothing changes--as evidenced by the same convo over and over again. Assertive asking stops the cycle and lets friend know that you're willing to step up at HER direction. Should she shut that down, it leaves the door open for her to come back to ask about something you may know but did not impose.

[catfeeder]

Thanks cat will think about your suggestions, except don't think I would ever suggest attending an OA group with her, it's not about her weight, weight gain is just a symptom of the disease.

:)

 

OA is over-eaters anonymous, not over-weight anonymous. She's already raised that she's over-eating, and she even phoned to discuss it.

 

Your admission to her that you also have an eating disorder has laid a groundwork of trust. Your willingness to accompany her to a meeting doesn't mean that she'll take you up on it, but it plants a seed that she may explore on her own--or maybe ~eventually~ take you up on it. Either way, she would gain access to work with sponsor who is trained in this stuff.

 

You don't need to raise this out of the blue. She's already confided in you about her over-eating, and she'll more than likely do that again. So mentioning the idea would be in context with what SHE raises.

 

Again, she's lucky to have you as a good friend, Kat.

[Batya33]

"You don't need to answer this now, you can just know that the offer is extended for anything you decide that I CAN do to help. Meanwhile, let's enjoy our time together and focus on the ways you'd like to do that."

 

This clips empty complaining short to avoid becoming a dumping ground and an enabler. We are not the therapist, we are the friend, and so we avoid embedding her by jumping down that rabbit hole. We're either available for productive discussion, or we can focus on other things--but we won't enable unproductive spinning.

 

yes- I am talking about a text convo or a phone convo where it's not "I don't know" but rather the person then listing all she has "tried" that didn't "work". So in that case that response can work but is a bit trickier because the person is claiming to have tried "everything" and since we're not professionals we actually might not have anything else in mind. And the rabbit hole ensues, I find if then the response is "you say you tried going to bed earlier to get better sleep but how long did you try it?" -any follow up on what the person "tried" often isn't listened to. So then what I do find I do is simply change the subject or express some frustration - which perhaps I should hold back but the response of "I am trying to explore solutions and it sounds like I'm not helping" (and yes often the person sense the frustration). It's hard to be patient in the face of that, that's for sure.

 

I will add- perhaps helpful to K -that one time I offered a solution that "offended" this person. It was "beneath" her (had to do with a job search). A few months later she somewhat begrudgingly told me that she'd looked into it and it wasn't a good path for her - but she backed off the "offended/that is beneath me" stance. I was glad not in the sense of being "right" but knowing that she needed to get that putting up this whole "beneath me" attitude probably wasn't the way she wanted to go right then.

[Starlight925]

I think you handled this great!

 

The thing I noticed is, although she said that she “can’t stop eating”, the missing piece was, she didn’t ask you what to about it.

 

I know you’re familiar with John Gray, Mars & Venus (me too! Love!), and he talks about how women often just want to be heard, while men want to fix. So I think she just wants to be heard, to feel validated, to feel loved, for right now.

 

The offer of taking her to spin class sounds great, but I think in her mind, it’s an attempt to fix, where for right now, she just wants to be heard.

 

And you are being a terrific friend, to just hear her.

 

And no, it sounds as all is not rosy in her relationship. Might be good for you to help her explore that, as there might be some clues to her eating.

 

If her BF is telling her how beautiful she is at this weight, but is controlling in other areas, that tells me there is emotional manipulation going on, which could be creating cognitive dissonance, an extremely confusing feeling. This can drive even the best of us to self-abusive behaviors, like excess drinking, drugs, or in her case, eating.

 

When she said she’d have to check with her BF, that sort of sent chills up my spine, I’m sorry to say. In normal relationships, it wouldn’t be a big deal, but with what’s going on with her, I’m afraid there is more to uncover.

[catfeeder]

yes- I am talking about a text convo or a phone convo where it's not "I don't know" but rather the person then listing all she has "tried" that didn't "work". So in that case that response can work but is a bit trickier because the person is claiming to have tried "everything" and since we're not professionals we actually might not have anything else in mind. And the rabbit hole ensues, I find if then the response is "you say you tried going to bed earlier to get better sleep but how long did you try it?" -any follow up on what the person "tried" often isn't listened to. So then what I do find I do is simply change the subject or express some frustration - which perhaps I should hold back but the response of "I am trying to explore solutions and it sounds like I'm not helping" (and yes often the person sense the frustration). It's hard to be patient in the face of that, that's for sure.

 

Yep, I get it. It's common for people to be resistant to input, and that's why we're asking rather than telling. We limit empty drilling with the consistent message, "Unless you want to explore solutions, which I will gladly do with you, we're moving our focus to something enjoyable together."

 

This only sounds counter-intuitive when we hold faulty beliefs about venting and what being a good listener means. Allowing passive venting embeds victimization and helplessness by rewarding it. Active listening rewards the opposite--problem solving--with our attention. Unproductive venting is 'nexted' in the same manner that good parents ignore temper tantrums by moving the 'reward' of their focus onto other things.

 

One way to reward someone who claims to have tried 'everything' is to cut them off from dissecting their list of fails by offering to revisit any failed method with them ONLY IF they want to come up with an alteration that might help them succeed. "So you can think about that and let me know if you come up with any ideas that I can help with. Otherwise, did you see any of the movies that won awards?"

 

Friend may need to take some time away from you when they recognize that their complaining wand doesn't work. That's natural--and manipulative. Don't chase, allow. Sending an occasional touch base message is fine, sending an invite to an event or something to 'do' together is fine, sending an opening to complain about the problem might be what she 'wants,' but it's the opposite of helpful--it's an enabling cave to the message that you're a lousy friend if you don't indulge her.

 

Skip that. Your offer of help stands, your willingness to enable is off the table. That's a boundary that's helpful to both of you--especially with the temptation to indulge your own codependency under the guise of 'helping'.

 

(And I credit you for understanding that I don't mean 'you'.)

[ThatwasThen]

Friend may need to take some time away from you when they recognize that their complaining wand doesn't work. That's natural--and manipulative. Don't chase, allow. Sending an occasional touch base message is fine, sending an invite to an event or something to 'do' together is fine, sending an opening to complain about the problem might be what she 'wants,' but it's the opposite of helpful--it's an enabling cave to the message that you're a lousy friend if you don't indulge her.

 

Skip that. Your offer of help stands, your willingness to enable is off the table. That's a boundary that's helpful to both of you--especially with the temptation to indulge your own codependency under the guise of 'helping'.

This is gold, Cat.