Judge Me Please - I Need a Good Kick In the Butt :)

[katrina1980]

Update:

 

We got together last night and I gently asked her how's she's been if she's been feeling ok.

 

She said she was fine and asked why I asked. I then brought up what her therapist suggested a couple of months ago - a mild anti-depressant.

 

Nothing had been mentioned since so just wanted to check in and make sure she was ok.

 

She was actually touched at my concern and said she had never had a friend who cared like that.

 

All good.

 

But then after a few drinks I could sense something was troubling her big time.

 

I told her about my experience with anti-depressants and my eating disorder, which she already knew, and that I was there to listen, not judge, if there was anything she ever wanted to talk about.

 

Long story short, she began crying, and admitted to struggling with an eating disorder, bulimia, for many years.

 

Only recently has it escalated, causung her to severely binge and purge, she's bloated, has severe stomach problems, shoulder pain, back pain and other ailments.

 

Thinking back on certain behaviours the past month or so, it all started to make some sense.

 

She went to doctor on Monday, her weight was 149 last time she saw him six months ago, now it is 168. She is 5'3".

 

She was shocked she had gained, she actually thought she had lost weight!

 

Not surprising she thought that, eating disorders (anorexia and bulimia) wreak havoc with your thought process and body image.

 

So he put her on the keto diet.

 

She also opened up about her bf who I think plays a role in this.

 

She loves him so much, said he is best man and bf she has ever had, but since dating him, she feels like she has "lost herself."

 

As it turns out he is extremely dominating and controlling..

 

So that is pretty much it. I mean there is much more but that's the gist of it.

 

She thanked me for being a good friend and caring and is getting help.

[Seraphim]

It is great you made a connection with her.

[Batya33]

Oh goodness. I am so glad you spoke with her and she shared with you. I really like especially how you made it about general health not just the "symptom" of weight gain -and you are right it was just a symptom. i feel for her. Glad you can support.

 

This post reminded me of when I was struggling in high school with eating issues. I wasn't comfortable talking about it - and anorexia was just then being written about for laypeople (mid 1980s). I went to a museum with a good friend -she is just a lovely person, the kind you feel like you can open up to and never be judged. And it all came out that day -forgot what triggered me to share/feel comfortable-I told her about my weight loss, my eating issues, my obsession with food, dieting, calories, how it was overtaking my life. (I am sure I called it an obsession -felt that way as a teenager!). She just listened and whatever she told me was supportive and just made sense.

 

So glad she is getting help!!

[katrina1980]

It is great you made a connection with her.

 

Thanks S and yeah me too.

 

We have not been friends very long, but have a feeling she and I will be life-long friends, supporting each other through the inevitable ups and downs and those sour lemons life often tosses us.

 

@Bat, tnx and am glad she is getting help too!

[bluecastle]

Thanks for the update, K. I've been following this one in silence.

 

My takeaway, at this point, is that you guys are good friends for each other—not that I've doubted that reading along. Seems to me that part of why you've bonded quickly is that you have a lot in common—more than you maybe knew: the "vibe" stuff that gets explained over time, as people open up to each other and connect more deeply, as you two did last night.

 

An additional eighteen pounds does not sound like much cause of concern. For her vanity and self-esteem? Sure. Prelude to a heart attack? No. It can be lost, and probably will. She was already taking steps in that direction before last night.

 

An eating disorder, of course, is cause of concern, and it's great that she's shared that with you. That's part of who she is, just like it's part of who you are, and one of the greatest things friends can offer is a safe space free of shame. Those are kind of "forever conditions" that can be dormant and under control for long stretches, and then resurface when life gets stressful, throws us.

 

Not sure how you're feeling about things, but in your shoes what I'd be most concerned about is the "lost herself" comment. People in healthy, loving relationships do not feel that way, so perhaps the focus of your concern, moving forward, should be this relationship. Perhaps your original post, without knowing it, was about a friend being torn up inside a toxic, unhealthy relationship.

 

By which I don't mean to start picking and prodding, of course, but just to be aware, observing, and providing a place for her to talk and find clarity on that over time. I say that because of the way you've framed her relationship, here and earlier: super dramatic and toxic turned super loving and great and happy. A nice story, that, and perhaps one that she has used less honest conversations with you in the past to convince herself was the true story.

 

Though it doesn't sound like the true story, since I'm assuming her bulimia was under control before the relationship, that she did not feel she had "lost herself" until she got involved with this man.

[katrina1980]

Thank you blue, yes I am very concerned about her "lost myself" comment too, and do believe it plays a role in why her bulimia has escalated to where it is now.

 

She trusts me now and does not fear being judged (like her other "friends"), and knows I'm here to listen whenever she wants to talk.

 

She is also in therapy and may actually begin taking the anti-depressant too.

 

The 19 pounds, you are right not that much but, although she last saw her doctor six months ago, much of that weight gain is within recent weeks to a month, it's been very noticeable.

 

Which is dangerous on the heart (along with the binging and purging) and is one of the reasons eating disorders can be fatal.

 

She is getting help now though, which is what's important.

 

Thanks for following and finally chiming in!

[bluecastle]

I'd started and stopped a few chimes along the way, kind of suspecting there was way more to this than her gaining some weight and triggering your own issues related to weight. But I didn't want to just be another voice in the room if I didn't trust I had something worthwhile to say.

 

Honestly? From the very beginning here I was wondering about her relationship, in part because I've never bought your description of it when it's come up in past threads, either about her or in response to others in topsy-turvy dynamics. I've wondered, if I'm being super honest, if you've found some comfort in her relationship story—toxic turned great!—as you've gone through your own ups and downs in your own relationship.

 

Just going to let that hang for a moment.

 

Toxic, generally, is toxic. Unhealthy is generally unhealthy. Can things change, improve? Of course. But, at least in her case, during the same stretch that she had "worked it all out," the same period in which you saw her story as toxic-to-happy, she was gaining weight, becoming actively bulimic, and nursing a feeling of being lost.

 

In your shoes I'd probably not be able to hear "best man and bf ever" for a good long while before believing it, no matter how much I'd like to—for her case or, well, for your own.

[Seraphim]

It is sad. I have a cousin with severe anorexia . She weighs 65 pounds and she is 5’1”. She has been anorexic for 35 years and had 3 heart attacks.

[katrina1980]

Blue, with respect may I ask what your point is?

 

She is a relatively new friend, a few months.

 

There was a bit of drama at first but don't recall ever describing their relationship as "toxic."

 

In fact whenever age gap threads were created, I used her and her bf as examples how they can work!

 

How you each bring something different to the table and how you can learn from each other, despite the age difference.

 

But now she has disclosed he is actually quite controlling and she feels she has lost herself, which is very concerning and I am here for her as she sorts it all out, along with everything else.

[bluecastle]

My point is that you guys just got closer, deeper, and in that moment you've learned that her relationship that has been highlighted as "working" was not really working, even when you thought it was.

 

The narrative simply was not true.

 

I can of course understand why she would want it to be true, since she was falling for someone and investing in someone, and I can totally understand why you would want it to be true, since we want our friends to be happy. It's inspiring, and their happiness can be guides for us as we navigate our own struggles.

 

But if it's false happiness? If behind it is an eating disorder and a feeling of being lost? Time to recalibrate.

[katrina1980]

^^ OK thnx for clarifying blue, I 100% agree with you about that.

 

And I think she would too.

 

We shall see how this plays out, whether they ultimately break up or work through it together.

 

I suggested he join her at one of her therapy sessions or seek out couples therapy.

 

Her call to make. I'm there to support, not make decisions for her.

 

Tnx.

[ThatwasThen]

You're a good friend, Kat. You handled it well.

[katrina1980]

You're a good friend, Kat. You handled it well.

 

Thank you Twt.

 

I actually handled my ex's drug addiction in a similar way. Not with anger, assumptions, accusations or pushing for answers but just letting him know I've been very concerned, noticing serious changes in behaviours (gave examples) and that I am here to listen, not judge, if/when he ever wanted to talk about it. That I care.

 

He opened up to me about it shortly thereafter.

 

This fosters trust imo and when there is trust, with no fear of judgment, it makes it a lot easier for a friend or loved one to want to open to up to you, and share what's happening with you.

 

I've experienced this myself, with others. I am not one to open up easily but if someone approaches me with a caring attitude, open mind, no judgment, it makes it easier.

[Jibralta]

Long story short, she began crying, and admitted to struggling with an eating disorder, bulimia, for many years.

 

Only recently has it escalated, causung her to severely binge and purge, she's bloated, has severe stomach problems, shoulder pain, back pain and other ailments.

 

Thinking back on certain behaviours the past month or so, it all started to make some sense.

 

She went to doctor on Monday, her weight was 149 last time she saw him six months ago, now it is 168. She is 5'3".

 

She was shocked she had gained, she actually thought she had lost weight!

 

Not surprising she thought that, eating disorders (anorexia and bulimia) wreak havoc with your thought process and body image.

 

Wow, that's really interesting. You know, I wonder if it wasn't so much her weight gain that threw up the red flags, but that you recognized her "bulimic behavior" on a subconscious level.

 

I saw something similar happen a couple seasons ago on RHONY. Betheny, who was recovering from an eating disorder, kept getting triggered by Jules, who was also recovering from an eating disorder (and relapsed during the season). They just couldn't quite get their friendship off the ground and Betheny brought this up as one of the possible reasons for that. She and Jules did want to be friends.

[katrina1980]

I think you may be on to something there J. Because when she told me, I actually was not that surprised. In fact, it all started to make sense.

 

I didn't have bulimia, I had its polar opposite, anorexia, but both eating disorders stem from essentially the same thought process - a loss of control and negative body image.

 

In my case, my mom was the one controlling me, in her case, her bf, hence her comment she feels like she has "lost herself" in this relationship.

 

I also think it may be why we bonded so quickly, as friends.

 

Even though neither of us knew about our respective disorders when we first met, that energy was there drawing us together somehow, like you said, on a subconscious level.

[katrina1980]

I hope she gets better soon. It's gonna be a long tough road.

 

She called me earlier and said "I still can't stop eating!!" I asked her when her next therapy appointment is, and she said next Tuesday.

 

Even though I struggled with my own disorder years ago and have recovered, I don't know how to help her with this.

 

Perhaps she just needs a friend to listen? And her therapist and doctor are the ones who can help her?

[Batya33]

I hope she gets better soon. It's gonna be a long tough road.

 

She called me earlier and said "I still can't stop eating!!" I asked her when her next therapy appointment is, and she said next Tuesday.

 

Even though I struggled with my own disorder years ago and have recovered, I don't know how to help her with this.

 

Perhaps she just needs a friend to listen? And her therapist and doctor are the ones who can help her?

 

Yes, exactly, just listen! You're doing great!!

 

My friend shared with me that she has binge eating disorder. Yes she also had bulimia at one time. She told me what to do -before she told me she just told me she wanted to share this with me, wanted no judgment and questions just on the details were fine. She is in therapy and is a therapist. So she told me exactly what she needed and that is exactly what I do when she shares her struggles with me.

[katrina1980]

Thnx Bat, that was very helpful!

 

I'll just continue listening then. :)

[bluecastle]

I hope she gets better soon. It's gonna be a long tough road.

 

She called me earlier and said "I still can't stop eating!!" I asked her when her next therapy appointment is, and she said next Tuesday.

 

Even though I struggled with my own disorder years ago and have recovered, I don't know how to help her with this.

 

Perhaps she just needs a friend to listen? And her therapist and doctor are the ones who can help her?

 

Yeah, just listen and be there, as you're doing. Ask questions, don't give answers. All of which, I think, is basically your nature.

 

Something, or some combination of things, has triggered this. She'll sort through that with her therapist, and the medical component with her doctor. Sounds like she's proactive about it all, and having you as a friend will be critical.

[RayRay63]

both eating disorders stem from essentially the same thought process - a loss of control and negative body image.

 

Hopefully her therapist will be able to identify and treat the underlying cause, whatever it is.

 

Including what the cause of her entering a relationship with a much older man is.

[SherrySher]

Long story short, she began crying, and admitted to struggling with an eating disorder, bulimia, for many years

 

I had a feeling something like this was going on, which is why I said if you're a good friend, you need to find out what's wrong.

 

You are a good friend, Kat.

 

I'm glad she opened up to you and told you. When you see someone struggling, you ask out of concern.

It's not right to notice huge behavior changes and not say anything (in my opinion).

 

I am glad you were there for your friend and she's lucky to have someone like you in her life.

 

Well done, Kat.

[catfeeder]

It's good that she's confided in you, Kat. I just want to clarify something about the interpretation below:

 

Just like any addiction if you enable it then that is just as, if not more cruel then mentioning something like what Catfeeder said regarding next time she says "I'm fat" or "I'm getting so fat" to simply ask her "so what are you going to do about it, luv" and then let her figure it out.

 

The question to ask when she complains about her eating or the BF is not, "What are you going to do about it?," which shoves her complaints back on her and leaves her with them, but rather, "What would you like to do about it, and how can I help?" This joins her in problem solving and offers your support.

 

Asking friend to answer what she 'wants' to do (and what you can do to help) interrupts her brain from it's emotional drilling and moves her focus to the rational part of her brain to seek a response to a question. Whether an answer is found or not, it breaks the spin.

 

Her response will likely be, "I don't know." In which case, you can say, "I understand, and that's okay. Think about this and let me know any ideas you can come up with. For instance, I can go with you to an OA group. I can take you to a therapy session. I can research community support groups that may have some work clothing, and I can help you to put outfits together for work so you won't lose your job. I'm willing to help any way that you ask, and the more you think about solutions, the more in control you will feel."

 

What I would NOT do it become an enabling pressure valve that listens to complaints without asking how I can help to resolve them. That only embeds her deeper into a complaint by releasing the pressure just enough for her to do nothing about it. Then she'll feel better for a moment, you'll feel worse, and nothing will change.

 

I'd consider researching women's resources to gather potential help for friend to address the controlling relationship. It's the triggering event, and it's common for women to complain about a partner without doing anything on their own behalf. I'd have the resources ready for the appropriate time to offer them AND the assistance to help her use them. She needs support with action, not just an ear.

 

You're a good friend, Kat.

[Batya33]

So not to hijack at all (!) but when I tried the "for instance" part with a friend who constantly complains about her yo yo overweight issues she will knock down whatever would follow "for instance" or dismiss them. Then what? I assume this is kind of a typical response from someone who just wants to vent.

[ThatwasThen]

It's good that she's confided in you, Kat. I just want to clarify something about the interpretation below:

 

 

 

The question to ask when she complains about her eating or the BF is not, "What are you going to do about it?," which shoves her complaints back on her and leaves her with them, but rather, "What would you like to do about it, and how can I help?" This joins her in problem solving and offers your support.

 

Asking friend to answer what she 'wants' to do (and what you can do to help) interrupts her brain from it's emotional drilling and moves her focus to the rational part of her brain to seek a response to a question. Whether an answer is found or not, it breaks the spin.

 

Her response will likely be, "I don't know." In which case, you can say, "I understand, and that's okay. Think about this and let me know any ideas you can come up with. For instance, I can go with you to an OA group. I can take you to a therapy session. I can research community support groups that may have some work clothing, and I can help you to put outfits together for work so you won't lose your job. I'm willing to help any way that you ask, and the more you think about solutions, the more in control you will feel."

 

What I would NOT do it become an enabling pressure valve that listens to complaints without asking how I can help to resolve them. That only embeds her deeper into a complaint by releasing the pressure just enough for her to do nothing about it. Then she'll feel better for a moment, you'll feel worse, and nothing will change.

 

I'd consider researching women's resources to gather potential help for friend to address the controlling relationship. It's the triggering event, and it's common for women to complain about a partner without doing anything on their own behalf. I'd have the resources ready for the appropriate time to offer them AND the assistance to help her use them. She needs support with action, not just an ear.

 

You're a good friend, Kat.

Here is a link to an article "Caregiving vs Caretaking.

 

https://www.expressivecounseling.com/articles/codependency-caretaking"

 

•Caretakers start fixing when a problem arises for someone else; caregivers empathize fully, letting the other person know they are not alone and lovingly asks, "What are you going to do about that."

•Caretakers start fixing when a problem arises; caregivers respectfully wait to be asked to help.

... By Elizabeth Kupferman, Professional Therapist.

[katrina1980]

Thanks cat will think about your suggestions, except don't think I would ever suggest attending an OA group with her, it's not about her weight, weight gain is just a symptom of the disease.

 

And I feel she would be extremely insulted if I made it about her weight in any way shape or form.

 

When I struggled with my eating disorder, if anyone suggested or implied indirectly how "too skinny" or "too thin" I was (and belive me there plenty who did!) or if they ever suggested a "group" for the "too thin" I would take great offense to that.

 

Yesterday while we were talking and she said "I still can't stop eating!" After asking her when her next therapy session is, I asked her if something happened to trigger that feeling.

 

She said nothing specific, except she's bored and stressed, and I responded when I feel bored or stressed, or anxious, I do yoga or take a short run, that exercise really helps calm me down and change my focus.

 

I also take a spin class every Friday after work which is a great stress release and lifts me up, and asked her if she'd like to join me as my guest. She can stop when she feels she's had enough. That's it's fun!

 

I said you'd be surprised how awesome you feel afterwards.

 

She said she has to check with J (her bf) as he has the night off. Ugh.

 

Yeah it's gonna be a long tough road.

 

Oh and I knew what TwT (and you) meant when suggesting I respond "what are you going to do about it"?

 

I would have never worded it like that cause to me it sounds insensitive (and rather snarky tbh), like I'm throwing it all back on her, and don't give a crap.

 

I knew the suggestion wasn't intended that way, but I think that is how it would have been interpreted.

 

It's how I would have interpreted it if said to me.

 

But I knew what you meant, it's all good and appreciate your suggestions! :)