Judge Me Please - I Need a Good Kick In the Butt :)

[RayRay63]

d others who support the notion that as a good friend, I should speak up.

 

 

Kat NO NO NO ...

 

As Superdave always said, if you do nothing you don't make a mistake.

 

This is your friend, you tried once, leave it for a while... maybe you'll get on the same page.

 

If you tell her stuff she is not receptive to right now - you'll lose her.

 

Turn the people round:

[mustlovedogs]

Yes of course if she were plus-sized, I would go!!

 

Absolutely 100% no question!

 

I may have my issues and hang-ups, but I am not a snob!

 

And I already mentioned how beautiful many "overweight" women can be.

 

Clearly you don't get me at all, or the premise of this thread. Maybe even my last day thread wherein I discussed our friendship, assuming we're talking about the same woman.

 

Which is fine, not everyone does, par for the course on these forums.

 

So she’s not plus sized?!

 

If that’s the case... wow...

[Batya33]

I would not take her shopping. If she shows you an outfit on line for example she thinks is pretty then give input like you would with any friend no matter what her size. At most I would follow up with her if she complains about feeling poorly in some way.

[katrina1980]

Kat NO NO NO ...

 

As Superdave always said, if you do nothing you don't make a mistake.

 

This is your friend, you tried once, leave it for a while... maybe you'll get on the same page.

 

If you tell her stuff she is not receptive to right now - you'll lose her.

 

Yeah I was thinking that too Ray, thnx for mentioning.

 

It's so hard to know what the right thing is!

 

I think I will just follow my gut and let the Universe guide me, lol.

 

I am actually serious, my gut (and the Universe) has yet to let me down.

 

Either that, or bring it up so as to be sure not to offend.

 

She's not plus-sized by any stretch, again 25 pounds, but it's been within the last month or so and all in her middle, which is concerning.

 

And the compulsive eating and continuing to gain.

 

And the too tight clothes thing, I think I may just zip my mouth about that, there is no "nice" way of approaching that subject and given the comments made by her employer, and how upset she got, I don't think she would appreciate it, even from me, her friend.

[katrina1980]

I would not take her shopping. If she shows you an outfit on line for example she thinks is pretty then give input like you would with any friend no matter what her size. At most I would follow up with her if she complains about feeling poorly in some way.

 

Bat, it would not be me taking her shopping. It would be us going shopping, you know a "girl" thing, what women do on the weekends for fun!

[Batya33]

Bat, it would not be me taking her shopping. It would be us going shopping, you know a "girl" thing, what women do on the weekends for fun!

 

No, I think you're deluding yourself. The purpose of shopping -you would know -is because she's too heavy for her current size so it's fraught with fragility and sensitivity. Given your comment I'd be careful in this particular situation on relying on the universe or your gut.

[katrina1980]

No, I think you're deluding yourself. The purpose of shopping -you would know -is because she's too heavy for her current size so it's fraught with fragility and sensitivity. Given your comment I'd be careful in this particular situation on relying on the universe or your gut.

 

Okay I will have to think about that Bat. I don't see it that way right now, I see it as two friends spending a day together having lunch, and shopping.

 

We each buy some new things, give each other feedback on how it looks on us, etc.

 

I am not seeing how she could take offense to that.

 

But again I will think about it, it's a valid point.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think due to your own preoccupation with weight, you are overly focused on hers.

 

As a friend you felt you needed to say something and you did. But from here there is no where to go with this, so I don't know what else to tell you other then to let it go.

 

It's her challenge to figure out and if it doesn't bother her, it shouldn't bother you.

 

This is exactly what I was going to say -- great minds think alike! :)

 

I have struggled with weight my whole life, and while I have never been morbidly obese, I have, at times, been significantly overweight for my height, and "well-meaning" people have felt it their duty to make me aware that I was overweight. I put "well-meaning" in quotes because, while I think that's what most of these folks THINK they are, really it comes down to either 1) Their own issues/concerns surrounding weight, whether it be an actual eating disorder (or former struggles with an eating disorder) OR just an obsession with weight/being thin (which, in itself, is disordered thinking, to an extent); OR 2) Simply being judgmental of those who don't fit their idea of what normal/good/healthy, etc., which often has an element of moral superiority to it (because, though weight really isn't a moral issue, it has become conflated with morality in many, many people's minds -- i.e. "Fat people have no self discipline!" "Fat people are pigs!" etc.)

 

Katrina, I'm not going to be hard on you because it's clear that you realize you're being judgmental, and I appreciate you recognizing that (most people don't), but as someone who has been on the receiving end of "well meaning people's" "helpful" comments/suggestions, I will say this: Overweight/fat people KNOW they are overweight/fat. It may genuinely NOT bother them, and that's OK, but in my experience, and the experiences of oveweight/obese people I've known, their weight usually IS an issue for them, even if they act like it isn't.

 

It sounds to me as if your friend is trying to convince herself that her weight isn't an issue, but gaining that much weight in a short period of time is most likely an indicator that something is going on, whether it's a physical medical issue (a surprising number of medical issues cause people's weight to change drastically over a short period of time) OR a mental health issue (stress, depression, etc. causing her to overeat and gain a lot of weight.) Regardless, telling her she's gotten fat, even if you genuinely think you're helping her, is not a good idea. The repercussions of her weight gain are already being felt -- the chastisement from her boss about her "unprofessional attire," the fact that her clothes no longer fit her, etc. -- these things are not lost on her, and you piling on with more commentary, more "advice," will do nothing but make her feel bad/worse about herself. At some point, she is probably going to find that her weight upsets her -- if she isn't already getting there -- and she will do something about it if/when that time comes. If she ultimately chooses not to, though, that's her choice to make. At some point, she won't even be able to put any of her clothes on because she will have gotten too large to even squeeze herself into them, and that may be her wake-up call. In any case, it's not on you to help her get to her wake-up call.

 

I hope this is helpful. Trust me as someone who has been there (though I actually caved and bought new clothes as soon as my smaller clothes got tight on me), change has to come from HER, not from outside opinions, however they are delivered.

[Batya33]

Okay I will have to think about that Bat. I don't see it that way right now, I see it as two friends spending a day together having lunch, and shopping.

 

We each buy some new things, give each other feedback on how it looks on us, etc.

 

I am not seeing how she could take offense to that.

 

But again I will think about it, it's a valid point.

 

Please don't do that with someone who is insecure about her weight.

[katrina1980]

Yes it was very helpful browneyed, thank you!

 

Taking it all in, and weighing the pros and cons.

 

As mentioned, if she were my sister, I would say something, no question.

 

But she's not my sister, so the dynamic is different, I totally get that!

[katrina1980]

Please don't do that with someone who is insecure about her weight.

 

What, not go shopping together? What am I missing here?

 

She has often asked me to go shopping, admires my taste, and has said she'd like me to help her pick up some nice things that flatter her figure, cause she's not all that great at it.

 

Okay not recently since she's gained, but still. How does the fact she's gained make a difference with respect to that?

 

Can you clarify Bat? Still not understanding.

 

That said, right now she mentioned she doesn't have the funds, can barely make rent, so that option is probably out anyway.

[browneyedgirl36]

What, not go shopping together? What am I missing here?

 

She has often asked me to go shopping, admires my taste, and has said she'd like me to help her pick up some nice things that flatter her figure, cause she's not all that great at that.

 

Okay not recently since she's gained, but still. How does the fact she's gained make a difference with respect to that?

 

Can you clarify Bat? Still not understanding.

 

That said, right now she mentioned she doesn't have the funds, can barely make rent, so that option is probably out anyway.

 

This last part is probably a significant factor in why she hasn't bought new clothes: She can't afford them. She knows her clothes don't fit, her boss has admonished her already, and...she can't afford new ones at the moment. That must be really hard for her.

 

Under normal circumstances, two ladies going out shopping wouldn't be a big deal, but...in this case, because of her current situation, I'd say leave the shopping trip for later.

 

If/when she needs help, she will let you know. There's a difference between her venting about how much weight she's gained and her asking for advice (I had to learn this from my experience with a friend who constantly complains about being "poor" and yet drops money on stuff that, too me, seems a waste of money and refuses to keep track of her spending, or cut back on luxuries --she drinks a $5 drink from Starbucks, sometimes twice a day, nearly every day, etc. ) Offering advice to someone who is not seeking it is an exercise in futility, and unsolicited advice is generally not appreciated, so it's best to let her come to her own conclusions about her life and decide she wants to change.

[mustlovedogs]

She’s not plus sized and you still speak this way about her?

 

That tells me the judgement is even deeper than I first suspected.

 

If she’s a size 6 who’s suddenly an 8, and she’s describing herself as fat... she isn’t!! And you aren’t helping by allowing that narrative to continue!!

 

I figured she was a 12 who had ballooned to an 18, or something.

 

Ok. And shopping.

 

I hate shopping with thinner friends. For one, not all stores carry larger sizes. And do you know how awful it is to be with a friend who can try on a M and I barely fit into a L and she walks out saying “ugh, this shirt makes me look so fat!”

 

Plus watching a prettier friend try on all these cute things I know I can’t wear.

 

IF you go shopping with her, I would recommend you NOT shopping for yourself.

 

You could try on things here or there, but it would have to be mostly a mission on finding things that fit her shape. Complimenting her. Lifting her up. Anything else can lead to comparison which is toxic.

 

I know that sounds like a lot of work - so I wouldn’t want to shop with most my friends, because I assume I’ll come out feeling worse.

 

If she isn’t plus sized, you need to squash the fat language, NOW. Otherwise you aren’t a good friend.

 

Instead say something about how you can relate (I feel that way after spending a weekend in! Or whatever) and then a solution (so then I check out this local spin class. It’s a lot of fun, would you wanna join sometime?)

 

That’s what a friend does. Anything else, anything that adds commentary but no support, is cruel.

[katrina1980]

@MLD, my reference to "fat" was only because that is how she refers to herself. All the time.

 

I actually detest the word, if anything I prefer "overweight," I find the term "fat" insulting and degrading. I have always felt that way, it's an ugly word and in retrospect I wished I had never used here.

 

But the fact that this is how she refers to herself I thought was relevant.

 

 

I hate shopping with thinner friends. For one, not all stores carry larger sizes. And do you know how awful it is to be with a friend who can try on a M and I barely fit into a L and she walks out saying “ugh, this shirt makes me look so fat!”

 

Plus watching a prettier friend try on all these cute things I know I can’t wear.

 

IF you go shopping with her, I would recommend you NOT shopping for yourself.

 

You could try on things here or there, but it would have to be mostly a mission on finding things that fit her shape. Complimenting her. Lifting her up. Anything else can lead to comparison which is toxic.

 

 

MLD, with respect (I mean that), the bolded is very telling.

 

You mentioned earlier you have recently gained due to depression. I am very sorry to hear about that (the depression).

 

My friend may be depressed too, or something else, hence the compulsive eating.

 

Re me being judgmental, well I already owned that, so yeah.

 

But I am also concerned because as others have mentioned, there may be more to it.

 

I am sorry you dislike going shopping with your "prettier" and "thinner" friends, I truly am.

 

But again with respect, I don't see how that is relevant here.

 

My friend has asked me to go shopping with her, a few times, which suggests she doesn't feel same as you.

[katrina1980]

This last part is probably a significant factor in why she hasn't bought new clothes: She can't afford them. She knows her clothes don't fit, her boss has admonished her already, and...she can't afford new ones at the moment. That must be really hard for her.

 

Under normal circumstances, two ladies going out shopping wouldn't be a big deal, but...in this case, because of her current situation, I'd say leave the shopping trip for later.

 

If/when she needs help, she will let you know. There's a difference between her venting about how much weight she's gained and her asking for advice (I had to learn this from my experience with a friend who constantly complains about being "poor" and yet drops money on stuff that, too me, seems a waste of money and refuses to keep track of her spending, or cut back on luxuries --she drinks a $5 drink from Starbucks, sometimes twice a day, nearly every day, etc. ) Offering advice to someone who is not seeking it is an exercise in futility, and unsolicited advice is generally not appreciated, so it's best to let her come to her own conclusions about her life and decide she wants to change.

 

Okay, very valid point browneyed.

 

I think I am back to leaving it alone for now.

 

If she suggests shopping again, once she has the funds, will consider doing that.

 

Thanks!! :)

[katrina1980]

I am going to leave this thread for awhile.

 

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and am taking it all in.

 

I apologize if I have offended anyone, not my intention.

 

I really do want to do the right thing, and what's best for my friend, truth.

 

Will update soon!

[mustlovedogs]

@MLD, my reference to "fat" is only because that is how she refers to herself. All the time.

 

I actually detest the word, if anything I prefer "overweight," I find the term "fat" insulting and degrading.

 

 

 

MLD, with respect (I mean that), the bolded is very telling.

 

You mentioned earlier you have recently gained due to depression. I am very sorry to hear about that (the depression).

 

My friend may be depressed too, or something else, hence the compulsive eating.

 

Re me being judgmental, well I already owned that, so yeah.

 

But I am also concerned because as others have mentioned, there may be more to it.

 

I am sorry you dislike going shopping with your "prettier" and "thinner" friends, I truly am.

 

But again with respect, I don't see how that is relevant here.

 

My friend has asked me to go shopping with her, a few times, which suggests she doesn't feel same as you.

 

I will go - if they aren’t judgmental.

 

You’re missing the point. I’m saying go if you’re mindful of her new body and therefore new insecurities.

 

My friends aren’t. They are accidentally judgemental. So I don’t go.

 

And if you hate the word, do something about it instead of allowing her to continue to use it.

 

I feel like you’re dismissing my experience and it’s frustrating. I’ve been in your friends shoes. To say it’s not the same or not relevant is naive because you don’t know. Heck, she might not know! This is new for her too.

 

It might not be the same. But she’s likely insecure and looking for some support.

[katrina1980]

I will go - if they aren’t judgmental.

 

You’re missing the point. I’m saying go if you’re mindful of her new body and therefore new insecurities.

 

My friends aren’t. They are accidentally judgemental. So I don’t go.

 

And if you hate the word, do something about it instead of allowing her to continue to use it.

 

Bolded, okay thank you for clarifying. Valid point.

 

I am sorry about your friends, I wouldn't want to go shopping with them either under those circumstances.

 

I don't think I would even want to be friends with them at all under those circumstances!

 

But for me, I always try to be encouraging. As I said, we build each other up!

 

To me that's what friends are for, to build up, not knock down or make them feel bad or worse than they already feel.

 

Not my style at all.

 

That is why I am struggling so much with this.

 

I deserve to be judged for my judging, I do believe judging another for any reason is wrong, and have owned that too. From post one.

 

I am trying, and everyone's posts (including yours) have helped! Thank you.

 

As mentioned, I am going to leave for awhile because it's all starting to affect me; I promise I will update later.

[mustlovedogs]

Don’t apologize for my friends, be aware of your presence.

 

Your words will matter if you go shopping even if you can’t tell they matter.

 

No negativity about yourself. No comments about how something looks bad on you. Nothing like that.

 

The way you speak here, I’m very concerned you would say something like that.

 

My friends aren’t jerks, they’re human. Not a single one - not one - has EVER made a comment on my weight. But you are. So I think you’re perhaps even more prone than they are to make comparison inducing comments.

 

I’m not saying this to be mean but to drive awareness.

[katrina1980]

 

My friends aren’t jerks, they’re human. Not a single one - not one - has EVER made a comment on my weight. But you are.

I’m not saying this to be mean but to drive awareness.

 

Bolded, not to her though MLD. Or anyone IRL (off this forum).

 

And never would. If I did approach the subject, it would be with concern, not a judgment about her weight.

 

I posted here because it's an anonymous forum and therefore "safe." A way to sort things out before saying or doing something in real life that may have a negative consequence.

 

I am human too, remember. Like your friends. An imperfect person who doesn't always do/say the right thing.

 

I know you're not trying to be mean, and didn't take your posts that way.

 

You're always direct and honest and I appreciate that!

[maew]

You DID ask for a kick in the butt here Kat and I think you definitely got it! :)

 

You are going to do what you want to do in this situation. We don't know you personally or your friendship with this person. My experience is based on working with women that are overweight (including family members) and not one of them has ever lost weight because someone told them they needed to or because someone had concerns about their health. They change because they want to, because they are ready to, for their own reasons. The only thing that happens when you tell someone you have concerns about their health is that they dig their heels in even more. It's like telling someone they need to get out of a $hitty relationship... when have you ever known that to work?

 

If she complains to you, asking her what you can do to support her or asking what her goals are and how you can help her achieve her goals is a great thing to do... you can also tell her that it hurts your heart when she beats herself up because you care about her as a friend so can she please f%^&ing stop that. Encourage her to either own and embrace her current body or do something about it.

 

Just try to avoid giving critique on what she is eating/wearing etc.

[Capricorn3]

Honestly, I don’t think she really is one of your friends. You only say bad things about her and even had a whole thread about how you DON’T want to be her friend.

 

IMO, you just need to stay away. She may be making those comments out of insecurity, hoping you’ll say something nice. I wouldn’t want to shop with someone like you - I can already imagine the judgemental eyes.

 

Say she asks you to grab a different pair of pants and asks for a 16? 18? Maybe 24?

 

Could you stop yourself from saying “really?” Without scorn?

 

Would you be comfortable going with her to a plus sized store?

 

Would you do it to SUPPORT her and build her up, or because you’re sick of looking at her?

 

I really can’t imagine you playing particularly nice with her shopping. I wouldn’t want to go with a frenemy who is arguably prettier than me and who is clearly judging me. So why would she?

 

Why would YOU? Honestly?

I second this post in it's entirety. I clearly remember the other thread too (still on record). Speaking bad about a friend and then in the same breath claiming to be her "good friend". I dunno. Why the need to "speak up"?? You say you remember how your own mother was on your case about weight and how much it hurt you etc and it left a lasting impression on you. Imagine other people "speaking up" about your weight. Would you truly, genuinely, "appreciate their honesty"?? I think the vast majority of people would not (if they are really honest).

 

Trust me, she KNOWS about her weight gain. She is very very aware that other people around her have noticed too. She doesn't need her "good friend to speak up" about it. The kindest thing you can do is just back off and leave it be. You don't want to fall into the "with friends like that, who needs enemies" category.

[katrina1980]

I second this post in it's entirety. I clearly remember the other thread too (still on record). Speaking bad about a friend and then in the same breath claiming to be her "good friend". I dunno. Why the need to "speak up"?? You say you remember how your own mother was on your case about weight and how much it hurt you etc and it left a lasting impression on you. Imagine other people "speaking up" about your weight. Would you truly, genuinely, "appreciate their honesty"?? I think the vast majority of people would not (if they are really honest).

 

Trust me, she KNOWS about her weight gain. She is very very aware that other people around her have noticed too. She doesn't need her "good friend to speak up" about it. The kindest thing you can do is just back off and leave it be. You don't want to fall into the "with friends like that, who needs enemies" category.

 

The thread on record was a different friend and she and I are no longer friends.

 

As for your comment, as I do with all opinions, I respect it.

 

But there are varying opinions on this, and even some who struggle with weight issues themselves who have posted and advised me to speak up. That they wish one of their friends did! So I am taking those posts into consideration too.

 

There is no right way or wrong way to handle this. I will think about what everyone has said, and ultimately do what I think is best, for my friend.

 

As I also said, I always try to encourage, not knock down, or say or do things that might cause someone, anyone (friend or otherwise), to feel bad or worse than they already feel. NOT my style.

 

Sometimes we might say or do something that might cause hurt, I think we all do to some extent, but that is never my intention.

 

Like MLD alluded to, we are all human, we all don't always say and do the "right" thing, all the time.

 

That is why I posted this thread on an anonymous forum. To get feedback before saying or doing anything that might cause hurt.

 

You can choose to believe that or not, I have no control what others choose to think of me.

 

I know who I am, and own who I am. Bad and good, positive and negative.

 

I am not one of those catty, fat snobs, who feels superior to my friends (or anyone) or who feels I must compete with them. Again, not my style.

 

That said, thank you for your opinion, I did ask for a kick in the butt and got a BIG one!! lol

[itsallgrand]

Do you think seeing your friend gain this weight has brought out the critical voice in your head - because it may be an opportunity for you to further examine and let go of some more of that stuff you've been carrying around that is your mom's baggage that got passed to you.

 

I'd refrain from getting involved , especially since you have your own issues you'd be bringing to ' helping her'. No offence, but you may not be in a position to be the one who can support her in this particular thing. Other things!? Sure!

 

I've been lucky to have had fairly strong role models around health and weight and image, it's not been a struggle of mine. In general, my stance on it is to be cautious in giving advice and comments on it at all, even when asked. It's so so easy for well meaning to hurt someone, it's such a delicate issue, and you can boost someone up without it.

[katrina1980]

 

Do you think seeing your friend gain this weight has brought out the critical voice in your head - because it may be an opportunity for you to further examine and let go of some more of that stuff you've been carrying around that is your mom's baggage that got passed to you.

 

 

I don't know because again, I have a different friend who has gained even more, and I didn't feel this way.

 

That said, it's probably related somehow, mostly I think it's a combination of things that have been discussed throughout this thread already, that was causing this overly judgmental feeling.

 

However, after reading everyone's comments, I must say that judgment is slowing dissipating, if not all the way gone.

 

I am seeing her tonight, and will not be mentioning anything.

 

I am looking forward to it, we always have a blast when together, lots of laughs and good fun!