Forgive her?

[hhans]

Agree with Mr. Wiseman's first sentence.

 

You are punishing her OP, and punishment has no place in a loving, respectful relationship. My opinion.

 

Don't agree with second sentence cause only you know how you feel. You say you love her and as an objective reader, I believe you. They're your feelings after all.

 

As for rape, that is an extremely serious accusation I don't think can be determined on an anonymous message forum. Especially in the third person (not the person it actually happened to).

 

She's owning her role in what happened which I personally believe is good thing.

 

If she felt violated and is concerned she was raped, let the authorities gather all the evidence and facts and it's for them to make that determination.

 

I do think a situation as you described is forgivable and can make you, as a couple, closer and stronger. Assumimg you both have the emotional tools to resolve in a healthy way. Without fear and without punishment.

 

I've seen it happen.

 

However, one thing that is concerning is her drinking!

 

You said she was seriously drunk both times. This needs to be addressed otherwise, it may (and probably will) happen again.

 

It doesn't appear she has any self-control so if you choose to forgive, encourage her to get help for the drinking. And continue communicating! That is huge.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the reply. This comment is directed at you and all the others. This whole situation is very confusing for me, please don't attack me here I just don't know what to make of this. I post this on different forums as my understanding of the situation grows and try to grasp this concept.

 

The thing is that she talks the rape theory out of my head, she doesn't see it that way but maybe she just doesn't realize it. I know about her past and she's always been a sexually liberated person which might be why she owns up to her own role like that, and doesn't see the evil in that guy's actions. Guys who make moves on incredibely drunk girls are scum.

 

More and more I feel like it is forgivable, and I've come to realize that forgiving means not punishing her like that. I can't help but feel like we can become stronger out of this. Even now, our conversations never have been so honest and open before which sets a good foundation in my opinion.

 

But no one can deny my feelings of being cheated on, she realizes she hurt me, regardless of her idea of what happened. I will talk to her thoroughly about this. What I mostly mean with 'her giving up a part of her privacy' is exactly what you said. I want her to assure me she will drink less and be responsible when partying, I will need to be a bit more controlling or I just can't know what will happen after this. Either way she has to win my trust back. She will be back in 2-3 months and I know she is real with me when we are physically together. This LDR is very hard, especially now.

 

Thanks.

[Seraphim]

It's not rape if she gave consent.

You can’t give consent when drunk. That is an actual legal definition. The fact she can’t remember means she was not capable of consent.

[mustlovedogs]

I was blackout drunk once. I remember flirting with a guy (I was definitely attracted to him) but not much else.

 

Somehow we ended back at his hotel room. I had started sobering up I guess. Kept saying no, but was too drunk to do much else.

 

He took my pants off and had sex with me.

 

Well.

 

I was definitely technically raped. I said no. I was drunk.

 

But I feel very uncomfortable classifying it that way. I liked him, I liked the attention. And calling it a rape makes me feel like a victim, which I don’t feel like.

 

I liked him, but I didn’t want sex.

 

Your girlfriend may feel how I feel about it. Rape is a scary word.

[RayofLighten]

Cannot consent if blacked out.

 

She told him she allowed the guy cos she liked him. That was consent. And she couldn't have been blacked out because she remembered everything perfectly fine.

[hhans]

My last response was late.

 

You feel CHEATED? Because she was RAPED?!

 

Are you KIDDING me?!?

 

She is a *victim*. She was *violated*.

 

This isn’t an issue of infidelity. Grow up and support her through this issue, or walk away. But stop playing these petty mind games.

 

Mate, get a grip. Why are you attacking me? I've known for a few days and I'm supposed to let it slide just like that? This is incredibly confusing for me, as she admits cheating, while it's me who feels like rape is a factor. She doesn't think she's raped, I don't know what to make out of it and this situation isn't finished. We're going to have a lot of talks.

[mustlovedogs]

She told him she allowed the guy cos she liked him. That was consent. And she couldn't have been blacked out because she remembered everything perfectly fine.

 

Nooooope not legally.

 

Blackout doesn’t matter. Being drunk does. And she had been blacked out which speaks to how drunk she was.

 

It’s not worth arguing about because you’re wrong, it’s as simple as that. Google it.

[hhans]

I was blackout drunk once. I remember flirting with a guy (I was definitely attracted to him) but not much else.

 

Somehow we ended back at his hotel room. I had started sobering up I guess. Kept saying no, but was too drunk to do much else.

 

He took my pants off and had sex with me.

 

Well.

 

I was definitely technically raped. I said no. I was drunk.

 

But I feel very uncomfortable classifying it that way. I liked him, I liked the attention. And calling it a rape makes me feel like a victim, which I don’t feel like.

 

I liked him, but I didn’t want sex.

 

Your girlfriend may feel how I feel about it. Rape is a scary word.

 

Okay I understand you point, I don't know exact details about what happened! I don't want to minimize rape like this. Consider how confusing it is for me :/

[RayofLighten]

Op hasn't cheated. He wasnt the one that slept with someone else twice behind her back. She clearly wasn't raped, just pulling the 'I was so drunk I wasn't thinking' Card. She knew what she was doing.

[RayofLighten]

Nooooope not legally.

 

Blackout doesn’t matter. Being drunk does. And she had been blacked out which speaks to how drunk she was.

 

It’s not worth arguing about because you’re wrong, it’s as simple as that. Google it.

 

You're wrong. She was drunk and consented. It's not rape.

[maew]

Quite apart from her taking responsibility for the fact she was raped (she's not alone in blaming herself - victims of child sexual abuse do, too) the conditions you intend to impose on her amount to coercive control - which is a crime in the UK.

 

You don't trust her and want to punish her; by no stretch of the imagination is this 'going easy on her'. This is not a good basis for a relationship. If she agrees to this, it suggests that she's someone who takes the blame for the injustices which others put onto her - the rape, and now you - and she needs to address this or she's got a lot of abuse ahead of her.

 

I have to admit that when I read what the OP wanted her to do to I felt a trickle of fear go down my spine. OP try to imagine how you would feel if this were you... falling down and messing up your face, and then waking up to find out that some predatory a$$hole had taken advantage of you?? While your face was bleeding and maybe even while you were trying to stop yourself from puking??

 

I hope this girl stands up for herself and gets the help that she needs... she needs support and help building confidence and self-esteem not punishment and further shaming.

[mustlovedogs]

You're wrong. She was drunk and consented. It's not rape.

 

Lol.

 

Read up on consent.

[katrina1980]

OP, if she is talking you out of the rape theory, and does not feel violated, then it's quite possible she has not given you all the facts as they actually happened.

 

She may be hiding relevant facts (like perhaps she was not all that drunk and knew perfectly well what she was doing).

 

She can't admit that cause if she did, you'd never forgive her!

 

She could also be in denial. I was legit sexually assaulted (drugged, sodomized) by a date many years ago.

 

I went into denial and did not report it, but I still felt very violated and knew what happened was very wrong.

 

I dunno, things to consider. There are so many unanswered questions, but my sense is there is more going on here than meets the eye.

 

Best of luck though.

[maew]

You're wrong. She was drunk and consented. It's not rape.

 

People are not legally capable of consent if they are blacked out or drunk to the point of being incoherent. Just because she may have said yes to him doesn't mean she had the mental capacity to make such a choice. That's like saying someone with cognitive delays or dementia that can't take care of themselves have consented just because they might have said yes to something.

[Seraphim]

She told him she allowed the guy cos she liked him. That was consent. And she couldn't have been blacked out because she remembered everything perfectly fine.

 

You CANT consent when drunk. Period.

[RayofLighten]

Lol.

 

Read up on consent.

 

She knew what she did. She is just trying to get out of it by claiming she was drunk. She did it twice.

[RayofLighten]

You CANT consent when drunk. Period.

 

So even if she said 'yes I want it' while a bit drunk, it's still rape? I don't think so.

[Seraphim]

She knew what she did. She is just trying to get out of it by claiming she was drunk. She did it twice.

 

Have you been sexually assaulted?

[Seraphim]

So even if she said 'yes I want it' while a bit drunk, it's still rape? I don't think so.

You need to look up the legal definition for your area.

[katrina1980]

Guys we don't even know for a fact she was all that drunk. She told the OP she was but who the hells knows. Per my last post, if she admitted it was consensual, he would never forgive her!

 

She herself doesn't feel like she was raped nor did she tell OP she feels violated.

 

She's trying to talk him out of believing she was raped!

 

As I said, I've been raped and I find this very odd.

 

Shouldn't the authorities be determining if she was raped or not?

 

Or her herself?

 

I have no idea what happened, but my sense is there is more going on here.

[Seraphim]

Guys we don't even know for a fact she was all that drunk. She told the OP she was but who the hells knows. Per my last post, if she admitted it was consensual, he would never forgive her!

 

She herself doesn't feel like she was raped nor did she tell OP she feels violated.

 

She's trying to talk him out of believing she was raped!

 

As I said, I've been raped and I find this very odd.

 

There is more going on here imo.

There are pics of her with a blood face because she drunkenly fell on it. Drunk enough? I think so.

[maew]

So even if she said 'yes I want it' while a bit drunk, it's still rape? I don't think so.

 

We are not talking about being "a bit drunk." We are talking very drunk and on the verge of blacking out.

 

I honestly have to wonder why you are debating this when there is a mountain of evidence (including legal paperwork such as arrest and court records)to prove otherwise. I do in fact find it concerning that you question the meaning of consent and encourage you to familiarize yourself with the laws in this area.

 

Whether the OP's gf was indeed as drunk as she said she was is possibly debatable as we weren't there to observe... based on her photographic evidence of her falling on her face that evening I would be inclined to believe that she was telling the truth.

[hhans]

Guys we don't even know for a fact she was all that drunk. She told the OP she was but who the hells knows. Per my last post, if she admitted it was consensual, he would never forgive her!

 

She herself doesn't feel like she was raped nor did she tell OP she feels violated.

 

She's trying to talk him out of believing she was raped!

 

As I said, I've been raped and I find this very odd.

 

Shouldn't the authorities be determining if she was raped or ot?

 

Or her herself?

 

I have no idea what happened, but my sense is there is more going on here.

 

I know for a fact she was incredibely drunk. Thing is, she feels really confused about it but nonetheless owns up to it. She repressed the thought of it. She's a very naive girl and I really think this guy is a predatory a$$hole. She tells me she doesn't know if it was consensual, she doesn't deny anything! The moment it became clear that I know she confessed everything. She tells me everything I want to know, even when it doesn't play in her advantage. She really is not trying to save her skin here. I get where you're coming from, though.

 

She at one time told me something about how she has been 'ripe' real early. Meaning she lost her virginity aged 12-13. She didn't want to talk about it but I might suspect she doesn't view that experience as rape, which could be a reason she doesn't see it that way right now. I will have to find out.

[katrina1980]

Ok fair enough OP.

 

I hope y'all can work this out, I've said my peace.

Again, best of luck.

[Seraphim]

I know for a fact she was incredibely drunk. Thing is, she feels really confused about it but nonetheless owns up to it. She repressed the thought of it. She's a very naive girl and I really think this guy is a predatory a$$hole. She tells me she doesn't know if it was consensual, she doesn't deny anything! The moment it became clear that I know she confessed everything. She tells me everything I want to know, even when it doesn't play in her advantage. She really is not trying to save her skin here. I get where you're coming from, though.

 

She at one time told me something about how she has been 'ripe' real early. Meaning she lost her virginity aged 12-13. She didn't want to talk about it but I might suspect she doesn't view that experience as rape, which could be a reason she doesn't see it that way right now. I will have to find out.

If she was raped at a young age as I was it makes sense she would be re victimized it happens a lot and you feel you deserve it so you don’t question when people abuse you.

[hhans]

If she was raped at a young age as I was it makes sense she would be re victimized it happens a lot and you feel you deserve it so you don’t question when people abuse you.

 

Well I don't know the story. Seeing what you and others wrote here made me think about it. Maybe it could have something to do with her feelings about this. Since it happened we've had entirely transparant and honest talks like never before, so if we can figure this out, that would be strong.