Who pays for drinks, coffee or dinner etc on a first date

[Monmouth]

As a man I would insist on paying for everything on a first date. Old school standards!

[katrina1980]

j.man once again I agree with much of what you wrote.

 

Personally, I have never experienced a man feeling his masculinity insulted (for the reasons stated in my post) when I offered to pay, only that some men feel that way, and yes I too would advise my daughter to stay away from such men who are so easily insulted by a woman offering to pay or paying.

 

It suggests to me controlling tendencies, perhaps not always, but generally speaking.

 

As for me, well I've stated numerous times I don't expect it nor do I think a man should pay necessarily.

 

Only that it's a nice gesture when he does, assuming he did the inviting, and it warms me to him. Maybe that's sexist, if it is so be it, I like it, it's gallant, it's chivalrous and those qualities are endearing to me personally. Just as certain qualities I have, such as my enthusiasm (about him) are endearing to him.

 

Most if not all the men I've dated have actually enjoyed treating me believe it or not, or so that was what they portrayed to me. I suppose as we continued to date, if I NEVER offered to pay or paid, that may irk them but after the third date, I do my fair share of inviting and treating. And I reciprocate in other ways.

 

Again, I've never had a man feel insulted or felt his masculinity threatened whenever I offered, they appreciated it!

 

I don't know, tbh this whole "who pays" thing has NEVER been an issue in any of my dating experiences or relationships.

 

If we click (and I wouldn't be dating him unless we did), everything just flowed. On those early dates, he invited me out, and treated.

 

Later, once our mutual interest was established, like after the first few dates, I would reciprocate.

 

Never a big deal or ANY sort of deal. It just flowed. We were compatible in that regard, which is really all that matters at the end of the day.

[katrina1980]

I just remembered something funny, a thread I posted last year about a movie I watched, Kate and Leopold. Below is my initial post.

 

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Man, I just watched the most romantic movie ever on Netflix, "Kate and Leopold"... I am like crying now, it was that romantic with happy ending. It was really funny too, not too "sappy" or overly sentimental as such movies often are.

 

Not sure when it was made, a few years ago I think.

 

Kate is a [very independent] American career girl (woman) living in NYC in year 2000, and Leopold is an Englishman, who came to NY looking for an American girl to marry in year 1847.

 

By accident he was transported from 1847 to 2000, meets Kate, falls in love, I won't say any more in case you want to watch.

 

Hugh Jackman plays Leopold, he is my new favorite hero.... modern men could learn a lot from him (Leopold) actually, but they won't.

 

Will just continue with the games and BS, same for women.

 

Anyway, lovely movie really.

-------

 

The part I didn't want to reveal in my post was how Leopold courted her. Kate was baffled at first, being a modern independent woman she didn't understand his "courting style," his gallantness, chivalry, etc, which included opening doors for her, getting up from his chair whenever she got up (my ex from New York used to do this, lol) and of course paying. Among many other things.

 

She quickly warmed to his ways though, loved it and they fell in love.

 

Anyway, I found Leopold to be so endearing, I am only sharing this to convey to y'all my style, what I enjoy and appreciate in a man on those early dates and even thereafter, although as I said, I do treat and reciprocate.

 

I don't think there is any wrong or right! It's such an individual thing, we'd all just be better off imo respecting each other's opinions about it, not judging them one way or the other, just accepting that we all have different styles, are are attracted to different qualities and different things in the opposite sex.

[mustlovedogs]

Here’s what I do:

 

Offer to pay if I like the guy, but not make a big deal of it. And, since I like him, I offer to slightly extend the date and go walk to coffee or ice cream or something after whatever we did, and pay for that.

 

If I’m not interested, I insist a little harder to split.

 

But I try and keep the intent about even

[goddess]

I just remembered something funny, a thread I posted last year about a movie I watched, Kate and Leopold. Below is my initial post.

 

----------

Man, I just watched the most romantic movie ever on Netflix, "Kate and Leopold"... I am like crying now, it was that romantic with happy ending. It was really funny too, not too "sappy" or overly sentimental as such movies often are.

 

Not sure when it was made, a few years ago I think.

 

Kate is a [very independent] American career girl (woman) living in NYC in year 2000, and Leopold is an Englishman, who came to NY looking for an American girl to marry in year 1847.

 

By accident he was transported from 1847 to 2000, meets Kate, falls in love, I won't say any more in case you want to watch.

 

Hugh Jackman plays Leopold, he is my new favorite hero.... modern men could learn a lot from him (Leopold) actually, but they won't.

 

Will just continue with the games and BS, same for women.

 

Anyway, lovely movie really.

-------

 

The part I didn't want to reveal in my post was how Leopold courted her. Kate was baffled at first, being a modern independent woman she didn't understand his "courting style," his gallantness, chivalry, etc, which included opening doors for her, getting up from his chair whenever she got up (my ex from New York used to do this, lol) and of course paying. Among many other things.

 

She quickly warmed to his ways though, loved it and they fell in love.

 

Anyway, I found Leopold to be so endearing, I am only sharing this to convey to y'all my style, what I enjoy and appreciate in a man on those early dates and even thereafter, although as I said, I do treat and reciprocate.

 

I don't think there is any wrong or right! It's such an individual thing, we'd all just be better off imo respecting each other's opinions about it, not judging them one way or the other, just accepting that we all have different styles, are are attracted to different qualities and different things in the opposite sex.

 

Well said, kat. I guess it it an individual thing and no right or wrong. I did learn different approaches and attitudes which I never thought of before. Good to know.

[Honeycomb8]

Doesn't matter either way. If I end up liking the guy on some level us splitting won't make much of a diff. Likewise, if I wasn't interested he could be taking me somewhere really nice and my opinion will not be swayed.

[goddess]

Doesn't matter either way. If I end up liking the guy on some level us splitting won't make much of a diff. Likewise, if I wasn't interested he could be taking me somewhere really nice and my opinion will not be swayed.

 

Makes sense.

[SherrySher]

I don't date to form a friendship, I date to determine if there is a physical, mental, sexual attraction.

 

What?!? How on earth are you meant to date someone if you don't start off as friends first? You don't make a whole lot of sense.

 

Have you not heard that the best marriages and best relationships are where they two individuals are best friends? In fact, your partner for life should in fact be your best friend.

That doesn't just happen.

 

I think it's easily why people get so screwed up in the head in think dates are supposed to be about seeing they the other person is bed-able or not instead of seeing if they can form a friendship and if they are compatible.

 

This is a solid foundation to any start.

Then at least if the relationship part does not work out, at the very least, you could have a potential friend, or not. But either way, it makes much more sense to me and to a lot of people as I have read this many times over in regards to how a good relationship should be formed.

 

God, I hope my son doesn't run into any of these 'princesses' who think they need their butt kissed like this.

When did women become so backwards? I had many friends in my 20's in university and none of them expected men to bow down or to pay. We all went dutch and we all treated men as equals.

Are we moving backwards all of a sudden?

[SherrySher]

Most if not all the men I've dated have actually enjoyed treating me believe it or not

 

Still not understanding this concept? Have you not considered that men too enjoy being treated? That they like when a woman makes them feel special too?

 

Men have feelings too, but why are the expected to be "chivalrous"? Can't a guy just be a guy and as long as he's nice and you split the check, then it's a good sign?

 

Why make these men feel as though they need to act like some kind of fairy tale prince and have them throwing money about, in order to be worthwhile?

 

Honestly, I have never heard of anything so backwards.

 

Sigh. Guess we've not evolved as much as I thought we had.

[katrina1980]

Sherry, you and I are just different.

 

For me, I date to determine if there is a romantic attraction, so do the men I date. And yes they invite me out and have treated on those early dates, and I gather from their attitude they enjoyed doing so. It's a sign of romantic interest. At least in my world, that's how it's always been, what I was raised to believe. By my own dad, my brothers, my peers.

 

Anyway, if there is a romantic attraction, then things develop from that, including a strong friendship.

 

I can almost guarantee you the men I've had LTRs with did not ask me out to form a friendship, that actually sounds a bit funny to me.

 

Yes I know men have feelings too, but we're talking courtship here, not friendship. I get you don't identify with that, in your world, friendship comes first and I understand and respect that.

 

I am extremely giving in my RLs, overly so in fact. After the initial dates when we're determining interest and attraction, I plan fun things for us to do, treat, buy little gifts when I see something he may like, give him TONS of affection!

My boyfriends are equally giving, it's an equal give and take, in different ways.

 

There is not much more to say other than that, and I am sorry you're unable to understand a different approach from yours.

[jestina1292]

Yes its a turn off. Lets be honest men "possess" their wives in a way they are head of household i am pretty, if you want my tine it comes with an initial investment exspecially at 28. If you split the,bill first date there will not be a second one.

[katrina1980]

 

If you split the bill first date there will not be a second one.

 

Well, although I do like it when a man pays on those early dates (for reasons stated earlier), I never expect it, and my goodness if there is a strong attraction and we get on well, I am certainly not going to dump him just cause he asked to split the bill!

 

That is a really extreme attitude and a bit unfair imo.

 

But if that's how you feel, you're entitled, I just find that attitude a bit extreme.

 

Just like I find it extreme when a man will absolutely not ask a woman out again if she doesn't pay for the second date, assuming he paid for the first, and yes there are men who will do this.

[SherrySher]

I've had LTRs with did not ask me out to form a friendship

 

Wow, this point is clearly going over your head.

 

I never said that on first dates the two people are only looking for a friendship...you know what? Nevermind.

[SherrySher]

Yes its a turn off. Lets be honest men "possess" their wives in a way they are head of household i am pretty, if you want my tine it comes with an initial investment exspecially at 28. If you split the,bill first date there will not be a second one.

 

Again, I have no idea how you even think this way. It astounds me, truly.

 

If you want a man's time, you'd better put in the same investment and treat him well!! Your time is no more important that a man's time.

Argue it all you like, but it won't make it any less true.

[katrina1980]

 

I never said that on first dates the two people are only looking for a friendship...you know what? Nevermind.

 

Well, I was just going by what you yourself said Sherry.

 

"How on earth are you meant to date someone if you don't start off as friends first?"

 

If I misinterpreted that, my apologies but yeah best to nevermind this, I have no problem with that.

[Batya33]

Well, I was just going by what you yourself said Sherry.

 

"How on earth are you meant to date someone if you don't start off as friends first?"

 

If I misinterpreted that, my apologies but yeah best to nevermind this, I have no problem with that.

 

I have had the friends first experience because I ended up dating someone I knew as a friend only. But I never was interested in meeting someone who had the "friends first" idea/mindset. That's because I find it cynical sort of - meaning I think a friendship happens while you date - the friends first thing comes across to me as someone who views dating as sex-focused and somehow thinks that sex distracts from getting to know the entire person including emotionally and mentally, etc. I disagree. I always liked the idea of getting to know the whole person and taking things at a reasonable pace emotionally and sexually. I don't compartmentalize friendship and sex and attraction. Certainly some people hang out mostly for a sexual arrangement and to me that's not dating -that's a sexual arrangement. And some people hang out platonically -to me that's not dating either -that's being buddies/friends. Just because people might date and not kiss right away or hold hands right away doesn't mean it's "friends first" - it may just be those people feel the attraction, are letting it build and will express it sexually or physically or both at the right time. Whatever works. But they are dating. They're not "friends first" -they're getting to know each other in various ways and enjoying the underlying chemistry/attraction that hopefully is growing.

[SherrySher]

I am leaving this thread because I am being taken the wrong way and unless I write a full essay on what I meant, people are obviously not understanding.

 

How in the heck can you derive that I meant "just friends" from me saying that the focus should be on forming a friendship on the first or second date?

 

I refuse to go into full explanation because truth be told, I am not up for the typing.

 

But obviously if you are attracted to this person and want to become romantically involved, you accept the date..that's a duh...otherwise you wouldn't.

 

Anyhow, That's the best I can explain and however anyone wants to take that, so be it.

[katrina1980]

I have had the friends first experience because I ended up dating someone I knew as a friend only. But I never was interested in meeting someone who had the "friends first" idea/mindset. That's because I find it cynical sort of - meaning I think a friendship happens while you date - the friends first thing comes across to me as someone who views dating as sex-focused and somehow thinks that sex distracts from getting to know the entire person including emotionally and mentally, etc. I disagree. I always liked the idea of getting to know the whole person and taking things at a reasonable pace emotionally and sexually. I don't compartmentalize friendship and sex and attraction. Certainly some people hang out mostly for a sexual arrangement and to me that's not dating -that's a sexual arrangement. And some people hang out platonically -to me that's not dating either -that's being buddies/friends. Just because people might date and not kiss right away or hold hands right away doesn't mean it's "friends first" - it may just be those people feel the attraction, are letting it build and will express it sexually or physically or both at the right time. Whatever works. But they are dating. They're not "friends first" -they're getting to know each other in various ways and enjoying the underlying chemistry/attraction that hopefully is growing.

 

I agree Bat especially the bolded, but all of it really.

 

Dating and courtship (defined) - a period during which a couple develops a romantic relationship.

 

That's how it's always been for me, determining if there is a romantic attraction and then letting things develop from that, including a strong friendship.

 

But hey different strokes, right?

[itsallgrand]

I understand what you are saying, Sherry.

 

Don't know if that one post was a troll or not, but wow.

[SherrySher]

Thanks Grandy, I think people are just arguing for the sake of it so I am graciously bowing out.

[katrina1980]

Sherry, you can leave if you want, but personally I would love if you would explain in more detail.

 

I really want to understand where you're coming from, your mindset, I think it's different from mine and I always appreciate new approaches and how others view things.

 

On it's face, when a poster says "start off as friends first," which is what you said, I am not sure how else to interpret it, other than your preference is to start off as friends first.

 

But your call if you want to leave. :)

[Capricorn3]

Thread has run its course.