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Anyone Struggle To Have Female Friendships? Anyone Have None?


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Hio enotalone!

 

Feel like a dork asking this, but all my life I have had such trouble maintaining or mostly just finding/developing true, deep, honest friendships with other women.

 

It's crazy because when it comes to men, I get on with them like a house on fire and everything is easy and flowing and great. No problem there. But, any women out there struggle to understand women??? I find myself constantly asking why? Why do they do this? Why do they gossip?!? Whhhyyy?!

 

Anyone go without close female friendships? What is it like? Or, do you think there is great value in them and a girl needs other women around her to share those girlie times where you need a glass of something and some female chat?

 

I am coming across very butch here - please, I am quite the opposite, I am quite a girlie girl in a lot of ways apart from, I fall flat here in the friendship department.

 

What am I doing wrong? Other women are very interested and very quick to befriend me, they really seem to like me at first, and then they get to know me, I invite them into my home, they get to know my husband, my baby, I feel like this might be a true potential friendship and then they either ditch me, talk about me behind my back, get into what feels like a competitive situation with me or just down right use me and take advantage of the fact I am very generous, constantly throw parties, provide dinner, drinks etc. I just don't get it.

 

I had a best friend for 16 years. In the end, we had a huge argument, I was supposed to be her bridesmaid and see her walk the aisle in a few months and we had an explosive argument where she outright told me her and her other very new, fickle (to me) friends had all talked badly about me and I just felt quite angry and heart broken. Also, a bit sorry for them. I knew right there and then after hearing that, regardless of the other problems we had, that how could I stand there and support her on her wedding day after knowing how she really feels? I sent the dress back to her. We've never spoken again.

 

Any advice on this weird subject? Anything appreciated.

 

I used to think it was all my fault, now, I'm just second guessing. People seem to be so self-involved and to be taking themselves so seriously these days. I feel like I was born in the wrong era.

 

Can't make any true friends since junior school.

 

Lo x

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Heh...I've always had an easier time being friends with guys. I mean since I was little. However, I do have a handful of very close female friends and have always had female friends as well. Yes, I do feel that there is a big difference in how men and women interact and I've always felt a need for girl time even if I make friends more easily with guys.

 

That said, I do stay away from girly girls and connect better with those who are more tomboy'ish for lack of a better word. Yes, a lot of women are catty, competitive with each other, gossipy, etc. BUT there are plenty who aren't like that. It's ye olde you can't choose your family, but you do choose your friends. So when it comes to female friends, I am picky. My old circle from college aside, other women I've become close with I've met doing hobbies that I enjoy that aren't necessarily girly. Kind of a like minds drawn to like hobbies thing.

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I have struggled, and in recent years, have been making improvements.

 

This was not very flattering to myself when I started to unpack it! Here goes... for me, this was a mosaic of patterns/skills/traits, not a linear one.

 

1) I was sexist. Not on purpose. I assumed men valued power, risk taking, and exploration. I assumed women valued comfort, reliability, and predictability. My values aligned more with what I presumed were male-oriented values. As a result, I was more comfortable being open and present when in male company. When in female company, I was more guarded and more expectant of rejection. This may still be true; I am working on it; maybe I am past it.

 

2) I was judgmental. Women who looked or behaved a certain way triggered a set of assumptions within me. In men, I tolerated a broad range of traits. In women, I required a set of tells that signaled to me that they would accept me. If they were too conformist, I presumed I would be rejected, struggle to find common ground, etc. While that may be the case, it often isn't the case at all.

 

3) Friendships require a certain degree of reliability - men and women value this, because it confers a low risk profile to their friendship investment. Well, being predictable is not my strong suit, in the normal sense of the word. My days vary, my schedule may change midday. I travel with minimum of preparation. I am very predictable in my unpredictability. My friends need to know how to connect, but I don't offer many handholds. This, I need to solve. Trying to find more ways to create repeat behaviors, but not there yet.

 

4) Some of my male friends were friends with me because they put the effort in, and I went with it. They may have had ulterior motives, who knows. I decided to choose one woman, then another, etc, in whom I wanted to invest. I decided to date them, basically. (Not really, but that is my best analogy.)

 

5) To maintain friendships, I have to get past the enjoyment of things, and into the deeper meaning of things. To learn to manage conflict, to assert myself, to still express attachment while also behaving in a way that respects my own needs. This turned out to be a set of communication skills.

 

6) I need to be comfortable in my own flawed skin. I recently was friendly with a new acquaintance; she then ignored me completely at a recent event. Shrug; that tells me she was interested in my contribution to the team, and not my individual presence. I get that. It no longer intimidates me, but it once would have. I do not need her approval, and I did not bother to reach out to say hello. She saw me there; she was focused on her own path. That is okay by me.

 

These have been my impediments/skill developments. Is it similar for you? It remains something about which I need to be intentional, and vulnerable. Occasionally, I take my lumps and keep it movin.

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I strongly value both women and men as friends for different reasons. At the end of the day I appreciate the emotional connection I get from my female friends. It did take me a long time to figure out the type of relationship I wanted and to cultivate friendships that were really meaningful to me. What I came to realize was that women highly value the sharing of emotions, feelings, and secrets in order to feel connected. They want to know that it's safe and okay to get vulnerable with their friends and expect their friends to do the same. I had to learn this the hard way many times before I actually built the relationships I have today. In my experience, male / female friendships are less emotional and that sort of vulnerability is not expected or even necessary in order to build a friendship.... which may make it easier to build and maintain but perhaps less satisfying in the long run.

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I think you are choosing the wrong friends.

 

The first time a new friend gossips about another one of their friends, I move on- if they are talking about them, they are talking about me. If they are flaky, I move on. It can take time to develop good friendships, but it is well worth it. Most women do not gossip about their friends.

 

Where are you meeting people?

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I really like Iamfca’s analysis especially about being sexist. Also reliability is crucial to me and it’s my strong suit. My biggest impediment to making new friends are people who claim to want to make new friends but don’t want to put in the effort to make a plan and follow through - or to reschedule reliably if there is an emergency. I’m fine with tentative plans and not fine with enthusiastically stating that she wants to make a plan and then proceeding to be vague or nonresponsive - waste of my time. I’m fine with cyber friendships but not with flakiness if the person expresses interest in making a plan.

I value both my male and female friendships and have always had male friends.

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I always say: don’t trust a woman without female friends.

 

That statement has literally never failed me.

 

I deleted the rest IMFCA wrote my thoughts way more eloquently.

Interesting perspective. Why is that?

 

I believe the opposite!

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I had plenty of girlfriends when I was in school and into my 20s but not now. That's ok with me as most women drive me nuts with whining and complaining about what is wrong in their lives, including their male partners, yet wont do anything about it. I much prefer the company of guys, the ones I know are open and we can talk about anything. We can hang out and it doesnt turn sexual. I like the relaxed feeling around guys that I dont get with most women.

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Interesting perspective. Why is that?

 

I believe the opposite!

 

Well I had it all typed out but like I said IMFCA put it pretty well.

 

FWIW, I think it’s the same for men too, although it’s not as ‘hip’ for men to say.

 

I think an inability to get along with your own sex is something you’re inwardly doing and projecting. Whether it be insecurity, competitiveness, a need to feel superior or validated, every time I encountered someone like that, I ended up needing to run on the opposite direction. Every time.

 

Not saying that’s the OPer, just my observation in life.

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That said, I do stay away from girly girls and connect better with those who are more tomboy'ish for lack of a better word. Yes, a lot of women are catty, competitive with each other, gossipy, etc. BUT there are plenty who aren't like that.

 

Hi DancingFool!

 

Thank you for your response! Appreciated!

 

It's funny but I wouldn't mind the competitiveness standing alone without other major issues, but it's the gossip, the catty behaviour as you say, when this is rolled into competitiveness as well as everything else it just puts the cherry on top for me!

 

It's not that I don't care what other people think but, I just don't want to be like them, so therefore there's not much competition from me. I can admire someones drive in their field or think they have a nice home or appreciate the way they handle their money or relationships but I don't feel that stabbing envy where I kind of want to covert what they have - I'm kinda very, well, really kooky, which means I hardly want what the average person wants. That sounds crazy because on the face of it boy do I seem conventional. I don't know whether other women take this the wrong way or see me as a curiosity to start with or simply don't know what to do with me.

 

Besides the point though, it's refreshing that you have also experienced this and feel the same way about men - the friendship comes so much easier. Everything seems much simpler!

 

How did you first meet and connect with your close female friends? Did you know from the off you were going to be very close for life? I keep expecting that when I meet someone who will be a life partner in crime, a true friend, that I will have this lightening strike moment, almost like the night I met my husband, but minus the romance!!!

 

Lo x

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Hi DancingFool!

 

Thank you for your response! Appreciated!

 

It's funny but I wouldn't mind the competitiveness standing alone without other major issues, but it's the gossip, the catty behaviour as you say, when this is rolled into competitiveness as well as everything else it just puts the cherry on top for me!

 

It's not that I don't care what other people think but, I just don't want to be like them, so therefore there's not much competition from me. I can admire someones drive in their field or think they have a nice home or appreciate the way they handle their money or relationships but I don't feel that stabbing envy where I kind of want to covert what they have - I'm kinda very, well, really kooky, which means I hardly want what the average person wants. That sounds crazy because on the face of it boy do I seem conventional. I don't know whether other women take this the wrong way or see me as a curiosity to start with or simply don't know what to do with me.

 

Besides the point though, it's refreshing that you have also experienced this and feel the same way about men - the friendship comes so much easier. Everything seems much simpler!

 

How did you first meet and connect with your close female friends? Did you know from the off you were going to be very close for life? I keep expecting that when I meet someone who will be a life partner in crime, a true friend, that I will have this lightening strike moment, almost like the night I met my husband, but minus the romance!!!

 

Lo x

 

I really really hate hearing the cliche about women being catty and gossipy. Some individuals act like that. Men and women. I think it's great to dare to be different and unconventional and it depends how you share those aspects of yourself with people -nothing to do with gender. I feel uncomfortable around people who try to prove to me how unusual/unconventional they are just like I find it annoying when people make assumptions about my lifestyle (from financial to career to my decision to be home full time for my child for several years, to my being single till I was in my late 30s, etc etc). Why does it matter whether you're conventional or not and might you be assuming certain individuals are conventional without really getting to know them?

 

Example. I met a mom a few years ago. So not my type. Dresses to the nines just to go to the darn playground, seemed kind of ditzy/materialistic. But my son liked her son so I was pleasant to her. One day she invited me to her house and my child for a playdate. She invited me to sit down with her and made us tea and offered me chocolate (ok I already now loved her lol). And sitting there at that small table, one on one, sipping tea she told me about her background, her life before marriage, her home country, how she met her husband -and I realized -wow - I totally misjudged her, made assumptions. In fact she'd told me she was going to try her hand at painting and I remember feeling dubious about her ambition/drive -well, she told me she sold many paintings at one of our premiere festivals a few months ago. And showed me her work with humility and pride -the best combination. I am sorry I misjudged her, glad I never let that affect how I treated her, glad I gave it a chance . No we are not besties now. Part of that is logistics but i saw her last month and we hugged and she was just so thoughtful again. I think it just takes time for her to warm up or something. And English is not her first language.

 

I have a number of close friends for many years. No I didn't know right away but the ones I met when I was very young I kind of did in that young girl/teenager way. And I've met other women who I thought would be BFF material and....they were not. It's like dating kind of. We relocated 9 years ago from the city I'd lived in 43 years and starting over is really hard -still is!

 

I think you should challenge some of your assumptions and get down to basics more - and find activities where you're likely to meet like minded people.

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I was very isolated when my son was small. But friends came back into my life once he was about 16 or so. I moved thousands of KM’s from my childhood friends and haven’t seen them in decades. I have one friend left from when my son was a toddler and more friends from the last 5 years although some are posted out. I don’t want huge groups of friends just a few true ones.

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This was not very flattering to myself when I started to unpack it! Here goes... for me, this was a mosaic of patterns/skills/traits, not a linear one.

 

These have been my impediments/skill developments. Is it similar for you? It remains something about which I need to be intentional, and vulnerable. Occasionally, I take my lumps and keep it movin.

 

Hi IAmFCA!

 

Thank you, a very interesting and thought provoking response.

 

I am not without self analyse, or, self ripping! I am the first to admit I am far, far, faaaarrrr from perfect. I don't expect anyone else to be either, but I guess I am looking for something very special in a friendship. Maybe I am expecting too much? I am an absolute romantic, always have been, I think I always will be. Maybe it's the literature lover in me or something or whatever but I had the same expectation for a romantic partner, I met my husband, it was exactly how I always imagined it and better, the feeling was, undoubtable. Mind blowing.

 

Someone once said, a quote I read, it went something along the lines of, basically, friendship is like the romantic love of your life, but without sex. That's true, deep friendship. Now, if finding your romantic soulmate is very rare and very lucky, with that kind of philosophy in my mind, it would be pretty rare and unlikely to be lucky enough to have both the love of my life in bed with me every night AND a friend who would jump in front of a bus for me in my phone book.

 

I don't mean to be cynical here but, when I say a true friend I mean... I mean someone who would die for you. Remember when you were a kid, and you read books? And the friends together in these stories, they put themselves on the line. Not just, oh I was there for you once at the end of the phone at 3am when you split up with Roger whoever but I mean, really take a bullet for you? How many people have friends in their lives that they can say, y'know, we love each other deeply, I would take a bullet for that girl. I see all these women in groups and I doubt any of them would donate their appendix for the one beside them, let alone save their life or give up theirs in return.

 

That aside, I'm not perfect. I've looked to myself plenty. I could do more and, people who know me could probably enlighten me a hella lot more on this. My husband definitely could, and does, he says I need to be reliable. I really acknowledge that and get that but, I have worked on that a lot, for a new friend in question, I have never been late for her once and I am still having doubts and the same old problems that always arise.

 

I did have something close to true friendships when I was a child. I would spend whole summers with one girl, summer after summer. We shared secrets, we told each other what was in our heart. I cried every time she had to go back to the other side of the country. I would fall into a deep depression when she left. I always thought about her, I admired and respected her insanely. I wanted to be her! I looked up to her. She inspired me. I even used to take on her accent when she came for the summers. My Dad would tease me about it.

 

Then we grew up and well, I will always regret this but after years and years of being apart, never knowing what she was doing or who she was seeing or how her life had turned out (she was drop dead gorgeous and over 6 foot tall, she went to be a model in New York, etc, she had a wild life). Well, she tried to re-touch with me and I had just fallen in love. I was completely, and utterly, obsessively wrapped up with my boyfriend then to be my now husband. I made an excuse to cut our meeting short. She looked so wounded. I think she knew me enough to know I just wanted to be somewhere else. I think she felt second place for the first time ever. I will always, always regret that.

 

I tried to contact her a year ago. It's bizarre but even living countries apart and never talking our lives have almost taken an identical turn. And we've both done some pretty out of the ordinary things. We really were kindred spirits. And there goes the only girl I ever had a true friendship with.

 

Now, as an adult woman, I guess I am trying to find Natasha again. But my Tish is nowhere to be found and, the women I meet, they don't love me and I don't love them. That's all it boils down to with me. Maybe that sounds weird but I guess that is honestly how I feel.

 

Lo x

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I’m going to ask you the same, dias. Why do you believe the opposite? Just curious.

 

In my experience and from my observations, women who have predominantly male friends love/like men more. And who doesn't like a woman who loves men? I sure do!

 

Maybe it's the same with guys. I get along with women better and if I had to pick between a woman or a man when it comes to friendships/work I would pick a woman 8/10 times. I think it's normal.

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I strongly value both women and men as friends for different reasons. At the end of the day I appreciate the emotional connection I get from my female friends. It did take me a long time to figure out the type of relationship I wanted and to cultivate friendships that were really meaningful to me. What I came to realize was that women highly value the sharing of emotions, feelings, and secrets in order to feel connected. They want to know that it's safe and okay to get vulnerable with their friends and expect their friends to do the same. I had to learn this the hard way many times before I actually built the relationships I have today. In my experience, male / female friendships are less emotional and that sort of vulnerability is not expected or even necessary in order to build a friendship.... which may make it easier to build and maintain but perhaps less satisfying in the long run.

 

Hi maew,

 

Thank you for your response!

 

I think this is where I am sometimes falling short - I don't really want to share secrets or deep emotions all of the time. I mean, I do, I want a relationship where we would feel comfortable enough to do this but, my husband is my confident. I guess, I don't know. A lot of women, I go for a coffee with, they talk for the hour all about themselves. They never ask me one question about anything! I could've just met them! I am asking questions, I am genuinely interested in someone new. I actually find people very interesting, I love hearing about everyones stories.

 

But the main thing I get is just, out of all their talk it's probably 80% complaints. Divorce or work problems or money problems or partner problems and then after they've talked they look to me as if to say, okay, spill yours then and the problem is! My problem is.. I kind of, don't have any "solid" usual problems. I have no problem with my husband. Not that I would ever, ever tell a friend about my husband anyway. I find it a complete lack of trust to go talking about your private sex life between your man to another person and I won't do it. And, I don't work. So they go really blank there and look at me like something must've happened or normally like I'm a spoilt bimbo. And then I start feeling like a jerk. Like I should complain, because they're complaining, and they're hurting, and I just feel like saying, wow, it's a beautiful day, how lucky we are! And, all I can think of is how much I love my husband and family and y'know, I just can't find the connection.

 

I have a newish friend of about a year who always complains about her husband to me. And then I have to see the guy around and I just feel terrible for him. I know all his dirty and I feel like I shouldn't. I try and change the subject but I can tell she wants to offload. I really don't know what to say. I say the minimum because I simply don't feel like it's my place, I feel like it's their private business and nothing to do with me and I say I'm sorry you feel this way and have you tried talking to him but I feel like she just thinks I'm uncaring. She stopped talking to me about him but all the other conversation went with that too.

 

I'm not saying all women are like this but I find the venting thing is very common and I don't know how to handle it.

 

Lo x

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I had plenty of girlfriends when I was in school and into my 20s but not now. That's ok with me as most women drive me nuts with whining and complaining about what is wrong in their lives, including their male partners, yet wont do anything about it. I much prefer the company of guys, I like the relaxed feeling around guys that I dont get with most women.

Ditto. I much prefer the company of men as I find them much more fun to be around. My husband once told me that he married me because "you think like a man and there's never any "girly" dramas, tears, nagging, whining etc", LOL. He reckons we get on so well because I "think like a man", lol.

Like you (melancholy123) I find most women drive me nuts and irritate me - I even prefer watching movies where there are no women in it, lol.

(I'll probably get flamed for this).

 

That said, I DO have a handful of very close and long term female friends but unfortunately we are all (with the exception of one) now living in different countries, but still stay in touch regularly.

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I always say: don’t trust a woman without female friends.

 

That statement has literally never failed me.

 

I deleted the rest IMFCA wrote my thoughts way more eloquently.

 

Hi figureitout23,

 

Maybe that's why they don't get close to me? But, they're happy to use my home, drink my alcohol and eat my food!

 

I always think the opposite actually! Strangely enough, the hugely popular girls at school with a trillion friends were normally the meanest and worst people in school. I found growing up, the geeky quiet ones who were left in the corner were like gems amongst the rocks. For whatever reason, not pretty enough or at my school, not rich enough maybe, or a bit of both, they never gathered friends and became popular.

 

Maybe we all judge too quickly. I judge women who have an entourage of female friends, hundreds of likes on social media and seem popular with everyone - I always find it's like a pack mentality. Whereas when I see a lone wolf, I guess I am a sucker for the underdog in a sense but, I always have more of a soft spot to give them a chance. I wonder why they have excluded themselves from the majority, or if they decided it that way or it was put upon them unwillingly? Or a bit of both?

 

Oscar Wilde once said, "Everything that is popular is wrong"

 

Sometimes I feel this about friendship. The group type, anyway. It's popular to be popular. Everyone wants to be liked, have lots of friends. I say, how many of these people who have 20 plus circles of friends, how many of those girls would take a bullet for the other? Probably none.

 

I would be happy with one truly close friend. I think that is realistically extremely rare.

 

My father in law of 65 once turned to me in the pub and said this: "You are lucky in life if you can count the woman you love, the children you have and the friends you keep on one hand".

 

I am not saying I am without fault but, I honestly am extremely easy and friendly with anyone, very approachable, I might not seem it online but I guess that's why I look back and people might feel "duped" because they then get into the details with me half a year down the line and release they don't agree with my political beliefs, think I'm old-fashioned and I guess with that I imagine they think I'm stubborn and stuck in my ways and they drift away. For me, your political beliefs don't affect if I like you or not but in todays climate it seems to be a massive deal breaker. I have had friends of 20 years just outright delete me from social media and say they will never talk to me again because I once said I liked Donald Trump. And I'm not even American by the way.

 

Lo x

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Ditto. I much prefer the company of men as I find them much more fun to be around. My husband once told me that he married me because "you think like a man and there's never any "girly" dramas, tears, nagging, whining etc", LOL. He reckons we get on so well because I "think like a man", lol.

Like you (melancholy123) I find most women drive me nuts and irritate me - I even prefer watching movies where there are no women in it, lol.

(I'll probably get flamed for this).

 

That said, I DO have a handful of very close and long term female friends but unfortunately we are all (with the exception of one) now living in different countries, but still stay in touch regularly.

 

Capricorn I ENVY you massively!!! OHHHHH!

 

And your husband sounds like MY husband! He often says to me, my brain is half a mans. I think that's why we are so similar, like kindred souls. He is my wing to my yang, it's like we have each others missing parts. I'm not sure if I can be that lucky again and find that in a female friendship maybe in my whole entire life.

 

Kudos for just saying it how it is for you as well. Sorry to stereotype but catty is a stereotype for a reason - I'm not trying to make these women catty, I desperate hope they're not!!! My fingers and toes are crossed, I so desperately want a close friendship, then, they don't even stab you in the front, they do it in the back. That's what kills it for me!

 

Lo x

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In my experience and from my observations, women who have predominantly male friends love/like men more. And who doesn't like a woman who loves men? I sure do!

 

Maybe it's the same with guys. I get along with women better and if I had to pick between a woman or a man when it comes to friendships/work I would pick a woman 8/10 times. I think it's normal.

 

Dias - I feel you on this one, thank you. Some common ground here. You sound like me, in male form.

 

Don't get me wrong, God, there are PLENTY of men I have clashed with, especially on a professional and personal level. Men can be catty too to but, the majority of the time, I can't put my finger on it but we just click easier, better. I mean, I often say to my husband, if he'd already been married, I would've still wanted to have been his best friend. Sorry to sound like, pass me the throw up bucket but, that's how much I just adore him as a person. Take out the romantic love, we just get on so well.

 

Lo x

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Hi IAmFCA!

 

Thank you, a very interesting and thought provoking response.

 

I am not without self analyse, or, self ripping! I am the first to admit I am far, far, faaaarrrr from perfect. I don't expect anyone else to be either, but I guess I am looking for something very special in a friendship. Maybe I am expecting too much? I am an absolute romantic, always have been, I think I always will be. Maybe it's the literature lover in me or something or whatever but I had the same expectation for a romantic partner, I met my husband, it was exactly how I always imagined it and better, the feeling was, undoubtable. Mind blowing.

 

Someone once said, a quote I read, it went something along the lines of, basically, friendship is like the romantic love of your life, but without sex. That's true, deep friendship. Now, if finding your romantic soulmate is very rare and very lucky, with that kind of philosophy in my mind, it would be pretty rare and unlikely to be lucky enough to have both the love of my life in bed with me every night AND a friend who would jump in front of a bus for me in my phone book.

 

I don't mean to be cynical here but, when I say a true friend I mean... I mean someone who would die for you. Remember when you were a kid, and you read books? And the friends together in these stories, they put themselves on the line. Not just, oh I was there for you once at the end of the phone at 3am when you split up with Roger whoever but I mean, really take a bullet for you? How many people have friends in their lives that they can say, y'know, we love each other deeply, I would take a bullet for that girl. I see all these women in groups and I doubt any of them would donate their appendix for the one beside them, let alone save their life or give up theirs in return.

 

That aside, I'm not perfect. I've looked to myself plenty. I could do more and, people who know me could probably enlighten me a hella lot more on this. My husband definitely could, and does, he says I need to be reliable. I really acknowledge that and get that but, I have worked on that a lot, for a new friend in question, I have never been late for her once and I am still having doubts and the same old problems that always arise.

 

I did have something close to true friendships when I was a child. I would spend whole summers with one girl, summer after summer. We shared secrets, we told each other what was in our heart. I cried every time she had to go back to the other side of the country. I would fall into a deep depression when she left. I always thought about her, I admired and respected her insanely. I wanted to be her! I looked up to her. She inspired me. I even used to take on her accent when she came for the summers. My Dad would tease me about it.

 

Then we grew up and well, I will always regret this but after years and years of being apart, never knowing what she was doing or who she was seeing or how her life had turned out (she was drop dead gorgeous and over 6 foot tall, she went to be a model in New York, etc, she had a wild life). Well, she tried to re-touch with me and I had just fallen in love. I was completely, and utterly, obsessively wrapped up with my boyfriend then to be my now husband. I made an excuse to cut our meeting short. She looked so wounded. I think she knew me enough to know I just wanted to be somewhere else. I think she felt second place for the first time ever. I will always, always regret that.

 

I tried to contact her a year ago. It's bizarre but even living countries apart and never talking our lives have almost taken an identical turn. And we've both done some pretty out of the ordinary things. We really were kindred spirits. And there goes the only girl I ever had a true friendship with.

 

Now, as an adult woman, I guess I am trying to find Natasha again. But my Tish is nowhere to be found and, the women I meet, they don't love me and I don't love them. That's all it boils down to with me. Maybe that sounds weird but I guess that is honestly how I feel.

 

Lo x

Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I don’t think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .

 

Maybe your need for romance and intimacy was / is not met by family of origin so you want it met by friends?

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I really really hate hearing the cliche about women being catty and gossipy. Some individuals act like that. Men and women. I think it's great to dare to be different and unconventional and it depends how you share those aspects of yourself with people -nothing to do with gender. I feel uncomfortable around people who try to prove to me how unusual/unconventional they are just like I find it annoying when people make assumptions about my lifestyle (from financial to career to my decision to be home full time for my child for several years, to my being single till I was in my late 30s, etc etc). Why does it matter whether you're conventional or not and might you be assuming certain individuals are conventional without really getting to know them?

 

Example. I met a mom a few years ago. So not my type. Dresses to the nines just to go to the darn playground, seemed kind of ditzy/materialistic. But my son liked her son so I was pleasant to her. One day she invited me to her house and my child for a playdate. She invited me to sit down with her and made us tea and offered me chocolate (ok I already now loved her lol). And sitting there at that small table, one on one, sipping tea she told me about her background, her life before marriage, her home country, how she met her husband -and I realized -wow - I totally misjudged her, made assumptions. In fact she'd told me she was going to try her hand at painting and I remember feeling dubious about her ambition/drive -well, she told me she sold many paintings at one of our premiere festivals a few months ago. And showed me her work with humility and pride -the best combination. I am sorry I misjudged her, glad I never let that affect how I treated her, glad I gave it a chance . No we are not besties now. Part of that is logistics but i saw her last month and we hugged and she was just so thoughtful again. I think it just takes time for her to warm up or something. And English is not her first language.

 

I have a number of close friends for many years. No I didn't know right away but the ones I met when I was very young I kind of did in that young girl/teenager way. And I've met other women who I thought would be BFF material and....they were not. It's like dating kind of. We relocated 9 years ago from the city I'd lived in 43 years and starting over is really hard -still is!

 

I think you should challenge some of your assumptions and get down to basics more - and find activities where you're likely to meet like minded people.

 

Hit Batya,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

The thing is, I don't try to be different or kind of put out there that I am - it's just the way I am. And, I'm not saying, oooo I'm SOosoosOOOoOOoo different WoowooOOOOooOO! I'm not, in the grand scheme of things. If you go into London, other big cities, people like me, with my lifestyle choices, my thoughts maybe, our tastes are common as anything. But, I don't live in a huge city. I live in a very traditional place that is quite backwards and not in the quaint way either. So, mine and my husbands lifestyle choices are classed as "out there" and, when you're really not the norm here, it stands out like a sore thumb. Trust me, I try to fit IN. I do NOT advertise in anyway any differences. But I won't try and be something I'm not. I will tell when asked, I speak my mind in conversation. I won't hide.

 

Our house in its self is a bit of a mind bending for people round here. I always joke to my husband that once they've entered "The Vault" they either run and never return again (it's happened, and lots) or, they keep coming because they find it "different" and kind of glamorous.

 

My husband is an antiques and art dealer and the house is a 4 story Georgian town house full of 20th century art and antiques but, it's extremely modern in it's bathroom and kitchen. The kitchen consists of solely a marble island that's 20 foot long. People walk past it, kind of look and go, "Is that a kitchen?" And then when we sit there they don't know what to do.

 

I'm not being a d**k here, I'm really not but, where we're living now, people don't interior decorate like this. They don't have an interior designer. Not that I would ever tell anyone we ever used one. Or had friends that were one. Or that our house had been featured in a magazine.

 

When people ask about my past, women I should say, and I just pop out with I used to be a lap dance, y'know, stripped off naked for thousands of men, for money, and loved it - I don't say it like that of course but you can see them taking steps out the door. So if the house doesn't do it, that does.

 

And then if they get past the stripping past when on the surface I seem so, kind of, open shirt, lipstick, cigarette trousers and heels normal, they freak out at the fact I'm only 29 but highly conservative, in most of my political beliefs and life beliefs. They freak out and think I am some downtrodden servant to my husband who, by the way, hasn't washed a dish for 10 years, He doesn't lift a finger for ANY housework. Not even puts his socks back. Once. I do, everything. And I want too. But, that really offends a hella lotta women, you won't believe. Men go, ALRIGHT! Women go, oh my God, he's a pig.

 

And then if THAT doesn't finish them off, they get to learn about our exotic sex club past, sharing partners etc and then they REALLY think he's a pig and woah.

 

And then if THAT ONE doesn't finish them off, they see the car I drive and they just do a double take. And they get caught up in the financial gulf between us. And then they start making comments. If I say I'll get the coffee round a snide comment comes out like, "Well it's nothing when you have loads of money!!!!!" Get that one! What they don't realise is when we didn't have a bean I would scour our flat so that I could get enough change together so I could buy my friends a coffee and take a round!

 

And then if THAT doesn't finish them off, they release I'm a stay at home mum and that I love it and I don't even want to work even though I could, and they freak out, because they say well, how am I fulfilled without a career? To be a slave to my husband and son? Forget the fact that that's highly offensive and incorrect anyway but, sorry, I'm apparently offending them just by living my life the way I want.

 

And if THAT doesn't finish them off, they talk about their degrees etc and then they learn I had an offer from Oxford and they just think I'm eccentric and throwing it all away being a wife.

 

And if THAT doesn't finish if off all the things they don't know just makes it too out there for them. For example, my husband is friends and also deals to some celebrities and royalty. I am not making this up. And it is so crazy to say that that, I don't even tell anyone, not a soul. To be honest, it's kinda out there so I hardly even discuss it with my own husband. We have had royalty at our house. Often.

 

And there are plenty more crazy things in our life that makes it just, there's so much I could talk about that I don't because, I already feel so different in this place that, I just try and fly under the radar.

 

And then I am kooky in conversation. I am a weird sense of humour. I mock myself all the time, they find that quite boyish I think and I go to make fun of them as well because I do it to myself and a lot of women I meet, they can't take jokes like that. So I don't make them anymore.

 

And on top of that yes, I am a ditz. I am bad with time. I blurt things out a lot, I sometimes don't think before I speak. I sometimes get too personal before it's time.

 

By the way, all these things are just offered to them within the first week. They either learn it from other people or after a year they slowly find it out.

 

I am desperately trying not to judge people. I really am not. Look, I am putting it all out there. I wish I were lying, because, my life is so, that I don't even write half of it on my journal. In fact, I could never. I can't even write 10%. But, I feel like I can't be fully me. I give little pieces and people freak out.

 

I am going to sound totally out of my mind, you probably think I am making this up, but we were at a members only club in London, my husband works there, in London that is, that's why we always used to be down there as a couple, this is a very, very exclusive club. I say no more. A long term friend of my husbands, we were having this EXACT conversation with him. He is gay. Him and his partner have been together for 20 years. They just married last year, we were at their wedding, along with other celebrities. Anyway, that aside, NO ONE knows about this by the way, not even my old best friend, but, after staying with them for the weekend, I received a card in the post and he had simply wrote:

 

"Lola & D,

To differences. We are different, and so are you. To being different."

 

And this is coming from the most flamboyant gay man who has had the most crazy life you could imagine.

 

I feel like I am doomed. I feel like, I either need the most plain prairie town in America or we need to live in a pent house in London but I feel like our in-between at the moment is a very, very hard place. We can't make friends, and when I do, I can't keep them. The divide is too great. It's not even just our lifestyle. It's like our minds don't meet. Maybe that is my fault. I can't quite work it out. Still struggling.

 

Lo x

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Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I don’t think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .

OP, when you say "a friend who would die for you" ... is that romanticising things a little too much? Kinda like a movie friendship. I mean, I DO Have very close long term friendships with females, but I don't think it's to the point where they, or I, would die for them.

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Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I don’t think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .

 

Maybe your need for romance and intimacy was / is not met by family of origin so you want it met by friends?

 

Hi Seraphim,

 

I always thought that was what true friendship was? Maybe I really am too romantic!

 

I tell you honestly, my old best friend, if someone had gone to hurt her, I would've put myself in front of that girl. I swear it on my life. And then I learn the truth about her 16 years down the line.

 

Fool me once!

 

Maybe I am just a very impassioned thinking and this is too intense! Maybe I should be looking for an acquaintance to talk with, have coffee, chat, but a deep, life long friendship? Maybe searching for the friendship I am looking for is one in a million.

 

Lo x

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