Women think I'm creepy. I think I really, really just realized that.

[oscuro]

I think you are over complicating this. When women feel comfortable being around you, being your friends, hanging out at your place, taking pics, etc, etc, etc. - they don't see you as a creep in the horrible negative sense of the term. What it more likely means is either they are teasing you a little or they find certain interests of yours as creepy, but they don't find you as a human being creepy. If they thought you are an actual creep, they'd run away screaming from you and not be friends with you or risk coming to your house.

 

I was wondering the same thing. I think I wasn't sure what to make of it. The word seems to be negative but her behaviour was reasonable(?) It felt like a contradiction in my mind. It's possible the word just makes me feel uncomfortable but she may not have meant it in a serious way or as you put it, it wasnt a judgement of my character. Just my interests and work.

[DancingFool]

I was wondering the same thing. I think I wasn't sure what to make of it. The word seems to be negative but her behaviour was reasonable(?) It felt like a contradiction in my mind. It's possible the word just makes me feel uncomfortable but she may not have meant it in a serious way or as you put it, it wasnt a judgement of my character. Just my interests and work.

 

I just edited my post to add more. Honestly, I really think actions and words and context. Someone who sees you as some dangerous creep won't hang out with or feel safe around you. So I really don't think she was meaning it in the way that you are taking it.

[Hollyj]

I'm not trying to put it under an artistic guise. It's a bad habit. Lonely habit. I think I'm better than I used to be but I have to stop. I suspect it relates to my shyness and self-anger. I interact with some men who are much more about their desires, wants, and needs and it shows in how they interact with people. I am... not comfortable with that and I think that comes out as lingering. I will speak to my therapist about it.

 

I understand that people who negative views towards Vodou objects but the history and anthropological analysis of these works is amazing and important. They are simply a reflection of survival, pain, processing, and reality.

I had no opinion on voodoo, until I attended a voodoo festival in Benin. I saw a lot of alcohol usage, cruel sacrifices and a huge focus on money. I was also told by the locals that there is also prayer for bad things to happen to others. There were some disturbing aspects. - I am not religious. At all. On the positive side, it was the most bizarre experience I had ever had, and would jump at doing it again. I love very different cultures.

[oscuro]

Who cares? 🙃 Art depicting rape, wars, torture, murder, mutilation, religion, animistic beliefs, etc has been around for all time. Visit any cathedral or museum or war memorial. You have never seen Vincent with his ear bandaged or crucifixion depictions or art depicting soldiers and war?

 

Get off the phone with these "many people" and get to some art museums and art shows. Go to the many excellent museums in LA or go to the 9/11 memorials in NYC.

 

What is getting in your way is thinking anyone who doesn't "appreciate" your art is pedestrian and that most people only want to see Normal Rockwell and black velvet Elvis paintings. Nothing could be further from the truth. Music as well has been "dark" for all time from Mozart requiems to 60s protest music about shooting students to rap music about drive-by shootings, etc. Wake up.

 

Who is "many people"? You need to open your mind and expand your social circle to include more open minded people.

 

I'm not assuming people who don't appreciate my work are "pedestrian". My work is pedestrian a lot of times. I'm saying that my identity is very wrapped in what I do and so it hurts me and unsettles me when someone reaches a conclusion that I'm weird or creepy. Sometimes I believe they reach that conclusion because they do have a small understanding of the work I do. Sometimes. Also I'm in my mid-30s and I attend museums, galleries, etc. I teach painting as well.

 

I'm dealing with emotions that are very immature or rooted in my youth. That's sort of it. I wrote this post shortly after the woman left. She was the first guest I've had over in a VERY long time. So she saw the world around me and she observed... darkness. So it caught me off guard. I ended up asking myself, "Is my home unsettling? Is this my life? Is this me (it is)? Do I care?" So I'm reflecting that out loud here in this forum.

[Batya33]

I'm not assuming people who don't appreciate my work are "pedestrian". My work is pedestrian a lot of times. I'm saying that my identity is very wrapped in what I do and so it hurts me and unsettles me when someone reaches a conclusion that I'm weird or creepy. Sometimes I believe they reach that conclusion because they do have a small understanding of the work I do. Sometimes. Also I'm in my mid-30s and I attend museums, galleries, etc. I teach painting as well.

 

I'm dealing with emotions that are very immature or rooted in my youth. That's sort of it. I wrote this post shortly after the woman left. She was the first guest I've had over in a VERY long time. So she saw the world around me and she observed... darkness. So it caught me off guard. I ended up asking myself, "Is my home unsettling? Is this my life? Is this me (it is)? Do I care?" So I'm reflecting that out loud here in this forum.

 

She wasn't a guest. In that sense. She was a random stranger in a sketchy situation who you let into your house - is someone who knocks on your door and comes in from off the street a "guest" in your home?

 

Sorry you have a hard time with your art being rejected. We all have experienced professional rejection and many of us feel that our profession or job is a significant part of our identity. I get that rejection is hard -it really is! Don't you have a "small" understanding of other people if you think it's ok to "linger"? Or when you assume all sorts of negative stuff about people you barely know just because your art isn't their cup of tea?

[Hollyj]

How do you make a living?

[itsallgrand]

So what happened in your youth to cause this bottling up and defensiveness ? Was it discrimination?

[DancingFool]

I'm not assuming people who don't appreciate my work are "pedestrian". My work is pedestrian a lot of times. I'm saying that my identity is very wrapped in what I do and so it hurts me and unsettles me when someone reaches a conclusion that I'm weird or creepy. Sometimes I believe they reach that conclusion because they do have a small understanding of the work I do. Sometimes. Also I'm in my mid-30s and I attend museums, galleries, etc. I teach painting as well.

 

I'm dealing with emotions that are very immature or rooted in my youth. That's sort of it. I wrote this post shortly after the woman left. She was the first guest I've had over in a VERY long time. So she saw the world around me and she observed... darkness. So it caught me off guard. I ended up asking myself, "Is my home unsettling? Is this my life? Is this me (it is)? Do I care?" So I'm reflecting that out loud here in this forum.

 

That's actually a very mature reflection. It is very possible that your home is dark and you have two options. Either find someone else who likes the darkness or separate your work from your personal social life. Literally take your artistic stuff out to the studio or limit it to a room in your home and leave the rest more normal for lack of a better word. So that when people come over, they don't think "oh that's creepy". I mean it's all your own choice. Who do you want to be and what kind of a life and company you want to keep.

[oscuro]

She wasn't a guest. In that sense. She was a random stranger in a sketchy situation who you let into your house - is someone who knocks on your door and comes in from off the street a "guest" in your home?

 

Sorry you have a hard time with your art being rejected. We all have experienced professional rejection and many of us feel that our profession or job is a significant part of our identity. I get that rejection is hard -it really is! Don't you have a "small" understanding of other people if you think it's ok to "linger"? Or when you assume all sorts of negative stuff about people you barely know just because your art isn't their cup of tea?

 

I don't actually think it is okay for me to linger when I look. I feel bad about it. I do suspect it's wrapped up in a sort of self repression of feeling. In a sense I question whether if sincere flirting would create more open environment where feelings are on the table. The catch is I don't know how to flirt. Another topic.

 

I don't think it's negative to assume some people are unfamiliar with African art. I have met many people in my life who dismiss African art as "evil" because their christian faith told them so. They told me their christian faith told them so. I do hold the view that if people engaged in the subject more, they would find it less "evil". They may still think it's unappealing but that's not a judgement of the subject itself. That's just a personal value of the work.

 

---

 

So I understand you believe it was too risky meeting a masked stranger from the internet. I think this is a risk assessment issue. I was comfortable with the risk. I know how to escape. I know where my weapons are. I know my neighbors are a thin wall away. I am a bearded male. She was a younger petite woman. If anything she should use careful caution. However she brought her mace with her, which is good. It was positive evening. We drank tea and listened to music and painted.

[oscuro]

How do you make a living?

 

Freelancing (design, music events, software development). Teaching.

[oscuro]

So what happened in your youth to cause this bottling up and defensiveness ? Was it discrimination?

 

Multiple things. This veers into another topic but... I think the way my mother raised me was problematic. I had no definitive male role model. My mother taught me that men are flawed a55_holes. So if and when a woman rejected me I gave up immediately and respected her space. This means if she expressed a look of boredom on her face, I bailed out of the conversation. If she looked away, I stopped talking to her. Etc. Eventually I just saw women as people who are inclined to reject me so I stuffed all my desires into a bottle inside me. It was not healthy. I'm basically describing my teens and 20s.

 

I did encounter discrimination as well which I realized in my 20s. I am a brown man. I am treated differently by women of different races. I am treated with more friendliness and less automatic distrust by most hispanic and black women I meet.

[oscuro]

That's actually a very mature reflection. It is very possible that your home is dark and you have two options. Either find someone else who likes the darkness or separate your work from your personal social life. Literally take your artistic stuff out to the studio or limit it to a room in your home and leave the rest more normal for lack of a better word. So that when people come over, they don't think "oh that's creepy". I mean it's all your own choice. Who do you want to be and what kind of a life and company you want to keep.

 

Yeah, I had never considered moving things around in the apartment in order to serve that purpose. I think it's a good idea... when I get a new apartment. So for now I suppose I'll need to accept the risk. It just caught me off guard when this person came over. She did stay however.

[Batya33]

Multiple things. This veers into another topic but... I think the way my mother raised me was problematic. I had no definitive male role model. My mother taught me that men are flawed a55_holes. So if and when a woman rejected me I gave up immediately and respected her space. This means if she expressed a look of boredom on her face, I bailed out of the conversation. If she looked away, I stopped talking to her. Etc. Eventually I just saw women as people who are inclined to reject me so I stuffed all my desires into a bottle inside me. It was not healthy. I'm basically describing my teens and 20s.

 

I did encounter discrimination as well which I realized in my 20s. I am a brown man. I am treated differently by women of different races. I am treated with more friendliness and less automatic distrust by most hispanic and black women I meet.

 

I think many people have experienced discrimination and it is so hard, I agree. Do you believe that in some cases it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and in some cases you project this on others? Do you think the distrust may have to do with your vibes/energy?

 

I am sorry you had such a challenging childhood.

[oscuro]

I think many people have experienced discrimination and it is so hard, I agree. Do you believe that in some cases it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and in some cases you project this on others? Do you think the distrust may have to do with your vibes/energy?

 

I am sorry you had such a challenging childhood.

 

I don't think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy only because race rarely comes up when I talk to white women. There's no way for me to make it self-fulfilling. At it's best it unknown--whether I'm being rejected on the basis of race. I only state that I know race has been a factor because it can't be a coincidence that I'm treated more warmly by women of color. It's not a coincidence when I see white women treat normal looking white males with a sense of trust and warmth that is not offered me. The best way I can describe this is I've more often met black women who will be friendly towards me like I could be a neighbor. That is not the dynamic with most white women I interact with when first meeting them.

 

Regarding my mother: I feel like I've moved a lot from that period and those problems. They did overwhelm me at the time. I used to.. hate the fact that I was a guy because she made it clear that men are scum. I've mostly moved on. I will consider speaking to my therapist about it. However I mentioned my mother because I think that's how I developed an intense insecurity that leads me to act in this way where I don't want to express my feelings or desire for a woman. That then leads to me acting awkwardly.

[Batya33]

I don't think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy only because race rarely comes up when I talk to white women. There's no way for me to make it self-fulfilling. At it's best it unknown--whether I'm being rejected on the basis of race. I only state that I know race has been a factor because it can't be a coincidence that I'm treated more warmly by women of color. It's not a coincidence when I see white women treat normal looking white males with a sense of trust and warmth that is not offered me. The best way I can describe this is I've more often met black women who will be friendly towards me like I could be a neighbor. That is not the dynamic with most white women I interact with when first meeting them.

 

Regarding my mother: I feel like I've moved a lot from that period and those problems. They did overwhelm me at the time. I used to.. hate the fact that I was a guy because she made it clear that men are scum. I've mostly moved on. I will consider speaking to my therapist about it. However I mentioned my mother because I think that's how I developed an intense insecurity that leads me to act in this way where I don't want to express my feelings or desire for a woman. That then leads to me acting awkwardly.

 

"Regarding my mother: I feel like I've moved a lot from that period and those problems. They did overwhelm me at the time. I used to.. hate the fact that I was a guy because she made it clear that men are scum. I've mostly moved on. I will consider speaking to my therapist about it. However I mentioned my mother because I think that's how I developed an intense insecurity that leads me to act in this way where I don't want to express my feelings or desire for a woman. That then leads to me acting awkwardly."

 

 

You seem to contradict yourself in this last paragraph.

 

As far as the first I cannot comment in the "I think you had to be there" way.

[DancingFool]

I don't think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy only because race rarely comes up when I talk to white women. There's no way for me to make it self-fulfilling. At it's best it unknown--whether I'm being rejected on the basis of race. I only state that I know race has been a factor because it can't be a coincidence that I'm treated more warmly by women of color. It's not a coincidence when I see white women treat normal looking white males with a sense of trust and warmth that is not offered me. The best way I can describe this is I've more often met black women who will be friendly towards me like I could be a neighbor. That is not the dynamic with most white women I interact with when first meeting them.

 

Regarding my mother: I feel like I've moved a lot from that period and those problems. They did overwhelm me at the time. I used to.. hate the fact that I was a guy because she made it clear that men are scum. I've mostly moved on. I will consider speaking to my therapist about it. However I mentioned my mother because I think that's how I developed an intense insecurity that leads me to act in this way where I don't want to express my feelings or desire for a woman. That then leads to me acting awkwardly.

 

Wow....if that's how you grew up, then you are carrying some very serious damage and baggage that needs sorting out and the sooner the better. You definitely need to find a good therapist to help you untangle all that.

[oscuro]

Wow....if that's how you grew up, then you are carrying some very serious damage and baggage that needs sorting out and the sooner the better. You definitely need to find a good therapist to help you untangle all that.

 

Um. Yeah. I don't feel that way anymore BUT I don't have high esteem. So there are still problems there. I will see what I can do.

[itsallgrand]

Multiple things. This veers into another topic but... I think the way my mother raised me was problematic. I had no definitive male role model. My mother taught me that men are flawed a55_holes. So if and when a woman rejected me I gave up immediately and respected her space. This means if she expressed a look of boredom on her face, I bailed out of the conversation. If she looked away, I stopped talking to her. Etc. Eventually I just saw women as people who are inclined to reject me so I stuffed all my desires into a bottle inside me. It was not healthy. I'm basically describing my teens and 20s.

 

I did encounter discrimination as well which I realized in my 20s. I am a brown man. I am treated differently by women of different races. I am treated with more friendliness and less automatic distrust by most hispanic and black women I meet.

 

Thanks for sharing that. It makes more sense to me now why you have these walls up around you.

[itsallgrand]

Question: do you have any strong positive male influences in your life now as an adult?

 

I think that might really help you. It's not too late for that, and it's a huge blessing for anyone to have that in their lives no matter our ages. I know I draw a lot of strength and insight from the amazing women in my life of various ages.

 

And for you, it may be particularly powerful. To have those men you can see and know in living action as a part of your life in a caring role who are everything you have trouble expressing in yourself and can help guide you in being proud in letting that part out.

 

You know the pain, the negative stereotypes you've internalized, all of that. Where you need encouragement is in bringing out the shining bright version of yourself and in loving those parts of you that you have kept hidden out of shame.

 

It's just an idea. When you say you worry about being perceived as creepy by women, I wondered if there was anyone to say 'no man, you aren't a creep. Just stop doing x y z. Women don't like that.'

 

You don't strike me as a creep. Just somewhat out of touch with some socialization. And it could be too why you think of yourself so much as ' different' or that others couldn't understand . And why you'd be drawn to the bunny mask girl.

[Wiseman2]

Wait....And she thinks you're "creepy"? 😵

I came across her on Tinder. All her photos are of her wearing a mask. No faces. She's sometimes in a bikini. Often posing in unusual places.

 

She lives in a van that has "The sadness is forever" spray painted on the side. She allowed me to take photos of her at my place

[nutbrownhare]

Wait....And she thinks you're "creepy"? 😵

 

Yes, quite!

[katrina1980]

Hi oscuro, I haven’t read all the responses but my thought is -- how about trying to get to know women who are also artistic, who understand your art (versus thinking it’s “creepy”); attending art exhibits and events, things like that where you’re sure to find like-minded people.

 

Secondly, own your art! You think it’s beautiful, unique, whatever you feel about it, it’s your work, you should feel PROUD of it, own it!

 

Who the hell cares what anyone else thinks? Why are you so concerned about that, seriously.

 

In fact, I would venture to guess that even those women who might otherwise find it “creepy” might be drawn/attracted to you simply by virtue of your owning it, not being embarrassed by it, and not giving a rat’s rear end what anyone else thinks. THAT type of confidence is extremely appealing to many women.

 

IMO it does not matter where your dark nature stems from (unresolved issues with your mom?), it’s your nature, your art, your work, own it, accept it, and feel proud of it. If you have unresolved issues with your mom, address those issues and your low-self esteem separately.

 

By the way, my nature also tends to be a bit “dark” from time to time, which reveals itself in short stories I write (not as much these days, unfortunately), some of which could seriously be made into one of those “slasher” films (depending on my mood of which I have many).

 

And not that this means a hill of beans, but I enjoy the dark side of things sometimes and without having seen it, generally speaking the type of art you do would be quite appealing to me.

[oscuro]

Wait....And she thinks you're "creepy"? 😵

 

Exactly. That was also strange to me. I thought she'd be a kindred spirit who would not consider me creepy. I don't know. All I know is that I don't drive that van. She remarked on how a cop was following her when she came to my apartment. I saw the cop. The cop left when she parked. She said he probably changed his mind when he saw her. She's a young blonde woman. I stated the story would've been very different if I was driving that van.

[Batya33]

Exactly. That was also strange to me. I thought she'd be a kindred spirit who would not consider me creepy. I don't know. All I know is that I don't drive that van. She remarked on how a cop was following her when she came to my apartment. I saw the cop. The cop left when she parked. She said he probably changed his mind when he saw her. She's a young blonde woman. I stated the story would've been very different if I was driving that van.

 

Why would you think a complete stranger wearing a mask would be a kindred spirit based on what she typed and her photo? I thought as an artist you were more inclined to think deeply? My sense is you sidestepped your typical introspection because of desperation. That is why I am concerned for your safety given your choices right now.

[abitbroken]

Exactly. That was also strange to me. I thought she'd be a kindred spirit who would not consider me creepy. I don't know. All I know is that I don't drive that van. She remarked on how a cop was following her when she came to my apartment. I saw the cop. The cop left when she parked. She said he probably changed his mind when he saw her. She's a young blonde woman. I stated the story would've been very different if I was driving that van.

 

I think that you make an unfair assumption and she jumped to conclusions. The cop could have simply been going down the same street she happened to be going down, she pulled in, so the cop, naturally, kept going. There is a stretch of road where I have had a cop behind me or a two cars behind me for a long stretch of road. And then i turn or they turn. I am going to bet the cop wasn't following her......