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Grandparents will not respect my daughters boundaries


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What about if you asked your in laws to ask your daughter if they could have a hug and if she says yes then okay, go ahead but if she doesn't want to, then PLEASE do not push her?

 

There has to be a compromise in this situation somewhere and if one can't be reached then all you can do is keep doing what you're doing but making sure that you're not putting undue fear in your daughter over it.

 

I would say that would be okay -- BUT i will tell you based on my childhood -- there were adults that pretended like they were going to cry/the artificial fake lip quiver if you said "no" and talked about me "hurting their feelings". so i think the parents need to be the buffer still. My great grandmother, great aunt and everyone were really awesome about hugs/no hugs my great aunt was the one who institute the handshake idea -- and gr. grandma thought cool conversations during my visit were way more important - hearing about what i did that week --- I DID end up starting to hug them when i felt comfortable and it worked out great --- but for the person who pretended to have their feelings hurt -- that is not right.

 

I do think that if people are not allowed to tickle your daughter, then you have to institute with your daughter that she is not allowed to sneak tickle you, either.

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Just want to say good job. She's lucky to have a dad like you. It reminds me of my own father, and I'm grateful for his respect and protection of my own sense of self since I was young. I realize as an adult what a rare gift it was that my parents did this.

 

As an adult interacting with other people's kids, including family, it's uncomfortable for me when some of them try to push their child to show physical affection with me ( kisses, hugs). A child will when they are comfortable and want to, and as a grown up, it certainly doesn't hurt my feelings if they do not wish to. I do have a rather large extended family and there are adults who almost see it as a competition which grown up a kid 'likes more'. It's always made me uncomfortable that.

 

Sorry I do not have advice , but I do support you .

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I know I am not a normal person. I had many abnormal things happen to me as a child and I frequently see things differently.

 

But I don't care what anyone else thinks, I will not allow my daughter to be brainwashed into thinking that society has some right to her mental/physical sovereignty.

 

It is horrible that parents condition their children to be rape victims because they are too afraid to stand up to people and defend their children.

 

If you want to raise your children that way, then have at it. Not even going to put in the effort to counter you, Danzee.

 

...

 

I'm in the same group as Danzee in that I think you're taking it too far. The fact that you made an exception to your own rule shows you're taking it to far because you weren't able to get it to work with your own rules. Let's say you're right, if you don't set these boundaries up then later in life she becomes a rape victim. If that were true, wouldn't you have just sealed her fate by making yourself an exception? Won't she now learn to think that only people of authority can rape her? So I'm going to answer that question, the answer is no. She doesn't become a rape victim by not enforcing these boundaries. She's a cute kid right now and people want to kiss her and hug her, they won't later, and she won't factor it in when she's about to get raped. She won't even think that well my aunt kissed me when I was three so I guess it's ok to let this stranger rape me. It just doesn't happen.

 

What you should do is tell her that her grandparents love her and her aunt loves her and they like hugs and kisses. That even though they're not fun to receive hugs and kisses from, if she would like them to feel happy she should allow them. Then also say that since strangers aren't family they shouldn't and she shouldn't let them. You should encourage her to receive affection from family and draw a line in not getting tickled or touched in a private part. Doing this will allow other family members to give her love and her to be less isolated and to receive it. If you start acting like a bodyguard on hugs on kisses and start terminating relationships, well, she's not going to be cute forever. When she's older those people aren't going to care as much about her and she will have fewer connections she can rely on. Having a kid that terminates family relationships is not good. It's like raising a kid that doesn't shake hands because he feels everyone has cooties and then the parent reinforces that as the right behavior.

 

As for the tickling by her grandparents, ask her to yell that they're hurting her and for her to say ow. The grandparents are just trying to get her to laugh and they're not funny so this is the easy way for them. But ticking is torture for people so they need to stop. Just curious, do you think they would agree to being ticked by her? Tell them that she would feel better if she could tickle them back and this is cheap therapy.

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Alch, you and your wife are an amazing team and awesome parents!

 

Stick with your values. But it need not be handled with anger - I think you might get the point across more readily if you are able to acknowledge that while they made their own parenting choices, you and your wife get to make your own parenting choices. Try to leave judgement and anger aside as much as possible (if you can), because all they will focus on is the anger.

 

Try to acknowledge something they were/are good at as parents, even if you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

 

Be ready for: "well, it worked for our daughter and look how she turned out, so it should be fine". Thank them for your wonderful wife. Then remind them that even though they don't believe in your techniques, and times have changed for parenting styles, you and your wife call the shots on your parenting rules. All done with as much compassion as you can muster.

 

I am sure you have done most of the above.

 

And, while this is likely preaching to the choir, here is a link to an excellent program on setting boundaries, the human body and sexuality, all presented at different and appropriate developmental levels. It gives kids the language and skills to navigate unwanted touch and boundary violations.

 

While it is "faith based", it is actually sponsored by the Unitarian church and really has little to do with faith, other than a spiritual view of our bodies and how we care for them. And the program has,been around for about 50 years, but is updated regularly.

 

My boys (both atheists) went through the program - one at 8th grade, and the other in high school. They met for 32 weeks! Both of my boys are very discerning about any dogma or anything else people try to feed them, and they were very complementary of the program.

 

So- we didn't participate in the younger child program, but a friend of mine did for her 2 kids. She just wanted to give them the language and skills to navigate through situations.

 

https://www.uua.org/re/owl

 

It is important to note that tickling someone repeatedly while they say no, is a form of abuse. It is a control issue. I know someone that took it too far, and got turned in to CPS. He can now only see his daughter under supervision. While that is an extreme example, it is good that you have taught your daughter to say no. And if your in laws cannot honor her "no", then they have limited contact.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/whats-wrong-with-tickling-children_us_587fd0dde4b00d44838cb6f9

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In laws would have been physically thrown off the moment they kept ticking despite the screams. I do think there's some merit in not inherently sexualizing physical contact and teaching a proper level of temperance in accordance with touch being a form of basic human interaction, but that's a solid mile away from any of their behaviors. Next time, give them an actual boot out the door. Children aren't objects for our entertainment.

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In laws would have been physically thrown off the moment they kept ticking despite the screams. I do think there's some merit in not inherently sexualizing physical contact and teaching a proper level of temperance in accordance with touch being a form of basic human interaction, but that's a solid mile away from any of their behaviors. Next time, give them an actual boot out the door. Children aren't objects for our entertainment.

 

Thank you, exactly. Children not objects for entertainment or for people to get their jollies or hugs .

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I attempt to approach my cousins' kids and if they act unsure or hesitant I back off

No sense in making small children afraid of me. If I'm able to gain their trust then I proceed by playing calmly with them unless they want to rough house or run around. I take my cues from them.

 

No way would I ever force them to hug or kiss me. And I think it's ridiculous to try to guilt or shame them into doing so.

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They may not understand why it's important for kids to learn that it's okay to say "no" with physical affection. Just telling them it's okay to say "no" may be foreign to them. You need to explain that while you trust them, letting her choose who can touch or not touch her will protect her from possible child molesters and abusers, and down the road, rape. Even if that isn't the case, the Baby Boomer generation gets certain reasons why, and totally don't always get other reasons.

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I read the links you posted. They were helpful and informative. I read a ton, so by all means post things like that. Whether i agree or not I typically learn something.

 

When this happened I did jump up and run to them and by then my in-laws had let her go. She ran to me crying and I told them if it happens again I might force you (FIL) down and tickle you while ignoring your demands to stop. I said that after I got my daughter to go be with mommy.

 

My FIL is a crazily strict conservative disciplinarian. He threatened to spank my daughter for crying before. She had stubbed her toe running around.

 

I told him in no uncertain terms the consequences if he ever did do that and it hasn't been an issue since.

 

I do tell my daughter that people wanting hugs and kisses are just wanting to share their feelings with her. I just also close that statement by telling her that even so, if she doesn't want to then she never does. And if anyone tries to make her she needs to say "no" and find me or my wife.

 

I did one time grab my FIL wrist when he started to tickle her because he didn't "hear" me tell him to stop.

 

He is not a very happy person and has pretty well broken his wife into being whatever he wants. He uses intimidation to get his way and although never hurt my wife (because she was easily intimidated) he abused his son quiet badly.

 

He thinks I provide for my wife too much and I spoil her. He also tells me that if I "put her in her place" my life would be easier.

 

But he gets so worked up and pissed off that all his enforcement tactics do nothing to me. He is a control freak with many issues related to that.

 

He does escalate situations to physical if nothing else works. But he also knows how that would go down if he tried that with me, unlike with his wife, daughter, or son.

 

I have kicked him out of my house before because he was rude to my wife, because he thinks she is still his daughter that he can bully. He really just thinks he knows best with everything and thinks he needs to "fill the parenting gaps" we leave.

 

So when he crosses a line I typically give him a warning then tell him to leave.

 

But when it relates to my children in this way I get a bit more worked up.

 

My MIL is also an issue but she is pretty much just an extension of my FIL' s will, like I said she is a pretty broken woman from my view.

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Your father in law sounds like quite a piece of work and you are doing the best you can under the circumstances to manage that.

 

As for your children......exploring their boundaries is one thing, learning how to assert them effectively is another. This is where you might want to consider backing off and not running to the rescue quite so much. Let your children figure out how to assert themselves on their own. Maybe consider being of a support that yes, it's OK to say no even if the other person is pitching a fit or trying to make them feel bad, etc. Offering some suggestions like shake hands or wave from a distance, etc. You won't always be around to protect them, so really your job as a parent is to raise them to be self sufficient and to be able to stand up for themselves effectively. That might mean letting them deal with that obnoxious aunt with stinky breath who always wants to pinch your cheeks and get hugs and kissed and she is sooo gross....I mean most of us probably had one of those in our lives when young and...it's kind of a safe environment to learn how to say no and how to assert yourself. So maybe, instead of jumping onto your family to respect your kids, let your kids figure out how to earn that respect instead. In the end, consider that might be a much more important lesson.

 

Looking objectively from the outside, seems like your daughter is learning a different lesson than what you are intending in your adult mind - that she has you wrapped around her finger and at her beck and call and she is definitely testing that big time.

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This guy named Kevin who was the son of the head bartender of my father's restaurant use to take my stuffed animal away, and refuse to give it back unless I gave him a kiss. His dad was weird, and always treated him like he had to do his own share, like pay rent as a child. Things to just keep in hindsight; people with issues are many times made to have issues from their own parents. So, it's finding the right hot buttons to get them to understand; her age and autonomy may not always make sense to them, since he may have been raised to OBEY.

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My daughter does have a great ability to explore her boundaries with my group of friends' children.

 

I don't often intercede with child on child issues. She has these things come up with other children and it is a non issue.

 

I also do not intercede if the adult is respectful to my daughters boundary request, as is the case with every adult she is around excluding my in-laws and my wife's aunt.

 

As far as being a bodyguard to my children...

 

As far as I see it that is EXACTLY what I intend to do. That is my and my wife's job as parents to our children. I see our role as being our children's bodyguards while simultaneously making our role obsolete by teaching them to take care of themselves.

 

My daughter has nothing she can do when she is screaming, crying "no, please stop" and the adult is totally ignoring her and continuing.

 

I don't comprehend how anyone can ignore that and let it happen. Or much less be the one causing it.

 

I am never going to ignore my daughter screaming bloody murder and terrified out of her mind because she was forcibly restrained and tickled by anyone.

 

If that person doesn't stop quickly enough I will make them stop through any means at my disposal.

 

I will also apologize for my earlier comment along the lines of "I dont want to raise a rape victim".

 

That really was ill thought and not what I ment.

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My daughter does have a great ability to explore her boundaries with my group of friends' children.

 

I don't often intercede with child on child issues. She has these things come up with other children and it is a non issue.

 

I also do not intercede if the adult is respectful to my daughters boundary request, as is the case with every adult she is around excluding my in-laws and my wife's aunt.

 

As far as being a bodyguard to my children...

 

As far as I see it that is EXACTLY what I intend to do. That is my and my wife's job as parents to our children. I see our role as being our children's bodyguards while simultaneously making our role obsolete by teaching them to take care of themselves.

 

My daughter has nothing she can do when she is screaming, crying "no, please stop" and the adult is totally ignoring her and continuing.

 

I don't comprehend how anyone can ignore that and let it happen. Or much less be the one causing it.

 

I am never going to ignore my daughter screaming bloody murder and terrified out of her mind because she was forcibly restrained and tickled by anyone.

 

If that person doesn't stop quickly enough I will make them stop through any means at my disposal.

 

I will also apologize for my earlier comment along the lines of "I dont want to raise a rape victim".

 

That really was ill thought and not what I ment.

 

No need to get defensive. Like I said, your father in law and his behavior is an exception to the rule and you are well within your rights to protect your family from his behavior. Not talking about your child screaming bloody murder, but other circumstances where it may be better that you do step aside. She will encounter all kinds of difficult and miserable people, so it was just a general idea that don't let your protective instincts get the best of you. When you start talking about severing ties and running interference during a family event....you might be going too far....then again...you might not be if the family is effed up. Hard to judge for us from the keyboard, so take our advice with a grain of salt so to speak.

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No need to get defensive. Like I said, your father in law and his behavior is an exception to the rule and you are well within your rights to protect your family from his behavior. Not talking about your child screaming bloody murder, but other circumstances where it may be better that you do step aside. She will encounter all kinds of difficult and miserable people, so it was just a general idea that don't let your protective instincts get the best of you. When you start talking about severing ties and running interference during a family event....you might be going too far....then again...you might not be if the family is effed up. Hard to judge for us from the keyboard, so take our advice with a grain of salt so to speak.
I am justifying myself but I am not annoyed or overly defensive. By all means say exactly what you think, it is hard to get me upset. I also like hearing a lot of views.

 

But I must say that both my in-laws and my parents are kind of messed up by many peoples standards.

 

Both our family's were pretty physically abusive. Both have serious substance abuse.

 

My parents are no longer overtly racist or anti non heterosexual. They were never sexist though.

 

Her parents are still all of those things. My wife got into an argument with me one time and her mom came up and said "I don't want to hear you complaining about him hitting you if you are going to be this way"

 

"This way" was standing up for herself to me and us having a non aggressive discussion/argument about something.

 

They also spout off some pretty hateful things about lgbt and other races.

 

We have set ground rules that if they ever say a thing around us or our children like that we will leave and not come back for awhile, or allow them to see their grandchildren.

 

I also do not allow them to drive our children because my FIL sees nothing wrong with drinking/drugs and driving. My MIL doesn't like it but would never stand up to him, even if he is trying to drive my children.

 

So there are a ton of issues here.

 

I know how to deal with his hateful words or his physical intimidation.

 

I just like others' opinions about helping my daughter set and hold her boundaries with adults. That is a lot harder to figure out.

 

Severing ties to family is something I am very familiar, and maybe jaded, with.

 

I have removed my sister and brother from my life, my only two siblings. Also several extended family members.

 

But between stealing, drug dealing, attempted murder (both my siblings tried multiple times), assault, and a lot of other things those were no brainers.

 

I am a lot more thought out with things that are not so black and white in regards to removing family.

 

But if my parents would have been more of a body guard to me I might not have near so many scars from knives or bullets.

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Your father in law sounds like quite a piece of work and you are doing the best you can under the circumstances to manage that.

 

As for your children......exploring their boundaries is one thing, learning how to assert them effectively is another. This is where you might want to consider backing off and not running to the rescue quite so much. Let your children figure out how to assert themselves on their own.

 

I agree about letting a kid "figure things out" in the pecking order with their friends or whatever... but NOT at the age of THREE with an adult that will overpower her. If father in law will get physical if he doesn't get his way --- then once is too many times and the tiny three year old must be protected.

 

As as far as your wife, you say he didn't physically abuse her because she was "easily intimidated" - she was still abused -- she chose to cower as her defense mechanism. To me, if someone abused their child, they don't get access to their grandchild. I think you have been more than generous in allowing them to see your kids and for awhile but i think you need to try to see them in public places "let's all meet at the zoo/meet at the kid friendly restaurant/meet at the park" for awhile or if they do come over, you don't leave the daughter alone with Father in law.

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I agree about letting a kid "figure things out" in the pecking order with their friends or whatever... but NOT at the age of THREE with an adult that will overpower her. If father in law will get physical if he doesn't get his way --- then once is too many times and the tiny three year old must be protected.

 

As as far as your wife, you say he didn't physically abuse her because she was "easily intimidated" - she was still abused -- she chose to cower as her defense mechanism. To me, if someone abused their child, they don't get access to their grandchild. I think you have been more than generous in allowing them to see your kids and for awhile but i think you need to try to see them in public places "let's all meet at the zoo/meet at the kid friendly restaurant/meet at the park" for awhile or if they do come over, you don't leave the daughter alone with Father in law.

Absolutely. My father abused me and has never ever seen his grandchildren any of them unsupervised. EVER. I don’t even allow him to talk to my son unsupervised and my son is 20. ( but vulnerable and my dad is sneaky and inappropriate)

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As as far as your wife, you say he didn't physically abuse her because she was "easily intimidated" - she was still abused -- she chose to cower as her defense mechanism.

 

or...he broke her spirit early on. emotional abuse runs deep. Her brother may have stood up to dad, so therefore he was physically abused.

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